07:04:16 RRSAgent has joined #wot 07:04:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-irc 07:04:30 meeting: Workshop on the Web of Things - day 1 07:04:32 scribe: fsasaki 07:04:38 agenda: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/agenda.html 07:05:32 chair: Jörg Heuer, Dave Raggett 07:05:40 topic: welcome 07:05:56 jörg heuer introduces the workshop 07:06:03 present: many, many, people 07:06:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:06:17 LeoD has joined #wot 07:07:05 jörg: why is Siemens interested in the WS topic? 07:07:29 .. Siemens organized in 4 sectors: industry, energy, health care, infrastructure & cities 07:07:43 .. we realized: we need to think across the verticals 07:08:17 .. web of thing activity is a lot about crossing domains 07:08:43 .. we need to "to understand the elephant called web of thing" 07:08:55 .. we'd like to exchange our perspectives and uses of the term 07:09:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:09:36 kaz has joined #wot 07:11:59 mbruss-w3c-de-at has joined #wot 07:13:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:15:19 topic: Brief introduction to W3C and workshop aims 07:15:42 dave: w3c: creating open standards under royalty free patent policy 07:15:59 .. standardization + pre-standardization activities in business groups and community groups 07:16:17 dave: internet of things is focusing on sensors etc. 07:16:27 .. we hope to form a group opinion what the "web of things" is 07:16:34 .. web has been around for 25 years now 07:16:54 .. it is the most interoperable platform across devices today 07:17:04 lmedini has joined #wot 07:17:13 .. the web has transformed the way we communicate - web of things will do the transformation hopefully again 07:17:54 .. why are we here today? there is fragmentation in the technology area around "wot" 07:18:03 .. we want to discuss: what kind of open standards are needed? 07:18:12 .. what application domains + use cases are relevant? 07:18:17 .. what role should W3C take? 07:18:24 .. we had many submissions, thanks a lot for that 07:18:45 roger has joined #wot 07:18:49 .. we have panel sessions + break out sessions. Each session leader is responsible for taking notes and for reporting back 07:18:54 .. we need those minutes for the WS minutes 07:19:20 Walter_Goix has joined #wot 07:19:24 saka has joined #wot 07:19:43 .. over 100 participants and many major companies - also lots of breakout topics, see the wiki linked from the agenda 07:19:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:20:37 dsr has joined #wot 07:20:38 topic: session "Sharing experiences, use cases and requirements" 07:21:43 first speaker johannes hund 07:21:45 topic: Johannes Hund, Siemens -- web technologies in smart grid and EV applications 07:21:52 knagano has joined #wot 07:22:00 bgidon has joined #wot 07:22:12 johannes: there is a lot of processes across industry domains, involving multiple stakeholders 07:22:37 .. there are key enablers. increasing processing power and communication facilities 07:22:48 .. example: smart gird application "virtual power plants" (VPP) 07:23:04 .. loosely coupled control over "distributed energy resources" 07:23:22 .. main application is the aggregation of data and orchestration 07:23:24 jeff has joined #wot 07:23:35 aroso has joined #wot 07:23:51 .. many stakeholders are participating in the scenario: grid opeator, power plant, metering operator etc. 07:23:59 scott has joined #wot 07:24:24 .. operator wants to control the energy flow, but for energy traiding that may lead to contradictions 07:24:31 .. we need an automation system 07:24:41 .. currently we have only a collaboration system 07:25:04 .. we are using chatt protocols like XMPP 07:25:24 .. example of vertual power plant with distritributed storage 07:25:33 .. antother use case: charging of electric vehicle 07:25:49 .. there is the vehicle, charging spot, user, energy provider etc. 07:25:56 .. so again many user interact 07:26:14 .. for automation a system in the eNterop project was developed 07:26:25 .. so what drives wot and what does it enable? 07:26:43 .. many stakeholder come from automation point of view and from collaboration 07:26:59 .. and some aspects to realize that is possible with existing web technology 07:27:12 .. we need to provide an extensible framework 07:27:24 .. does not need to cover all use cases 07:27:30 .. need to encompass security etc. 07:28:02 .. we have breakout sessions that show such activities 07:28:20 jörg: thanks, johannes - questions? 07:28:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:29:02 pablo: when we did web services in the 90s 07:29:07 .. it was focusing on workflows 07:29:15 .. then more interaction came up 07:29:27 .. but we stil don't have a good way to push information 07:29:40 .. as you said: internet of things is closer to social networks 07:29:56 .. we need to realize that the traditional web services don't fit for this 07:30:00 jörg: exactly 07:30:14 .. with xmp you can break out the things that are modeled with soap services 07:30:26 .. into patterns that fit in applications 07:30:41 topic: Yusuke Doi, Toshiba -- Long Life Web of Things with EXI 07:31:47 Yusuke: my point of view here is as a member of W3C EXI working group 07:31:58 .. we expect that billions of devices will be connected to the internet 07:32:12 .. one aspect of the volumen: E-Waste 07:32:39 .. some part of the devices will produce waste 07:32:58 .. there will be some early innnovators, some may last long, some may fail 07:34:17 Yusuke: we cannot update or re-publish the "big things" 07:34:53 .. there are candidate wot standards [list of various standards from ISO and others] - they are defiend in XML / UML data models relying on XML Schema 07:36:23 .. these things are not so smart and cool, but we can use them to build reliable applications 07:36:47 .. focus on the bottom layer: what are the things, how they can interact, how to assure their sustainability 07:36:59 .. some of you may think: XML is not ready to be used on devices 07:37:29 .. example of wot application using xmpp (=XML protocol) 07:37:45 davecj has joined #wot 07:38:01 arno has joined #wot 07:38:01 .. the XML is encoded as EXI, that is: binary XML for interchange 07:38:28 .. EXI can be used as alternative to XML. because it is binary the encoder does not need to think about encoding, spacing / newlines etc. 07:38:52 .. because EXI uses XML Schema as a source of grammer, it is a state machine that can be implemented in a tiny way 07:39:05 .. XML is ready for "things" 07:39:47 .. need to define: what a device is, data model of things, communication model 07:40:09 .. recent activities from EXI working group 07:40:30 .. have published as a proposed recommendation: EXI profile for efficient use of memory 07:40:55 .. also grammar exchange format (under discussion) 07:42:46 .. example of trick for implementing xml schema based communication on tiny devices 07:43:48 .. from a certain point of view XML is just a text 07:43:55 .. the interpretation comes with the data model 07:44:08 .. certain devices don't need to know all parts of the model 07:44:25 .. if we can do that we can have a significant reduction of XML schema or EXI grammar size 07:44:41 .. such tricks can help to enable XML & standard based communication on tiny devices 07:45:24 .. so: wot may require some standards that we can rely on to build long lasting cool applications 07:45:38 .. such a standard will require data model description language like XML Schema 07:45:47 .. json is good to but it has less ability to describe data models 07:46:14 .. XML is a good approach - it has been created by W3C (= us). This WS is a good place to discuss what we should have 07:46:51 .. EXI is one example, it is just a tool to realize wot. Main point is: we cannot make standards for everything 07:47:11 .. the actual domain specific standards should be discussed e.g. in OASIS (e.g. for health care = HL7) 07:47:26 .. maybe the WS can help to make a meta standard, that should be interoperable 07:48:51 q/a 07:49:15 yusuke: depending on the domain, sustainability is more or less important 07:49:25 .. e.g. for smart phones less important, for train systems more 07:49:30 topic: Masaki Umejima, Japanese Smart Community Alliance -- ECHONET Lite enables Demand Side Energy Management - IP based and IEC's open standardized interface for home appliances 07:49:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:51:39 Masaki: my story is based on nation wide implementation, not research 07:52:08 mcf has joined #wot 07:52:14 .. I am in charge of smart meters in japan, from technical specification to implementation etc. 07:52:29 .. this september we will start adoption in Tokio area 07:52:40 s/Tokio/Tokyo 07:52:50 .. in 8 years all japan meters will "speak" IP 07:53:10 masaki: my role is to address parameter adoption 07:53:23 lmedini_ has joined #wot 07:53:32 .. the japanese parameter specification sometimes receives complaints from international partners 07:54:16 .. one must understand that Japan's ECHNOET lite power meter is not domestic 07:55:11 .. a very unique approach which can provide many opportunities for you as well 07:55:26 .. you can download technical spec of ECHNOET LITE from the web 07:56:02 .. ECHONET LITE will be IEC standard. 200 companies are in ECHONET consortium, including oversea companies like IBM 07:56:14 .. we have close relationsship also in Asia 07:56:21 mcf has changed the topic to: WoT workshop - day 1 07:56:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:56:46 .. step by step we will cover many areas, so now we must discuss with America + Europe 07:57:11 .. ECHONET LITE is a liaison partner in W3C, want to discuss with you how to move forward 07:57:34 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/agenda.html#agenda 07:58:01 [Demo about ECHONET Lite] 07:58:31 masaki: ECHONET commands to turn on / turn off light 07:59:04 . now batch control of air conditioner 07:59:35 s/\. now/.. now 07:59:47 [air conditioner is talking] 08:01:00 masao: about HEMS interop test centre 08:01:24 .. ongoing interop test case #1 08:01:58 .. new business model "smart house" 08:02:07 .. being commercialized 08:02:42 .. we need to discuss open standards like ECHNONET Lite on the open web platform 08:03:48 philippH: why is it LITE? What was the HEAVY counterpart? 08:04:03 masaki: ECHONET did not support IP 08:04:20 .. and another difference: ECHONET was not open, E. LITE is 08:04:34 topic: Nick Allott, impleo -- IOT interoperability using web technologies: lessons learned and future challenges 08:04:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 08:04:59 Nick Allott 08:05:51 (nquiring minds) 08:06:29 nick: three contexts: webinos project, niquiring minds, and ubiapps 08:07:26 nick: IP licensing costs in radio technology - currently too expensive 08:07:53 .. you as IOT operator don't have IP support since it is too expensive from power and licensing perspective 08:08:03 .. 2nd comment: speed is essential 08:08:35 .. 3rd point: if you talk about IoT, interop - you should re-use what is available 08:08:49 .. we need to see what is good, put it together and address the challenges 08:09:03 .. IOT challenges: first connecting devices 08:09:20 .. using TLS gives you security, encryption etc. 08:09:25 .. second: provenance 08:09:56 .. we are using PKI. every connection is based on a mutually authenticated connection via TLS and using PKI 08:09:59 .. third: access 08:10:12 .. need to be able to control data access 08:10:22 .. we picked XACML from OASIS 08:10:35 .. then: addressing (remote) 08:10:51 .. how to address the sensor / capability on a different device 08:11:07 .. the URI needs to be clever - not every domain will resolve to a specific IP address 08:11:18 .. the sensor only sometimes may be connected 08:11:30 .. so need to be smart on how to produce an URI for this situation 08:11:43 .. fith: discovery 08:12:01 .. a lot of stuff is available 08:12:15 .. since IOT is constrained we need to be careful. we are using FEATURE-URI 08:12:37 .. nice thing about it: it is extensible, URI based - everyone can specify their needs 08:12:51 .. then: capability 08:13:06 .. I as an APP developer - how do I act on data 08:13:18 .. the developer wants a Javascript API 08:13:34 .. you can talk about IOT protocols, there is a lot of tech out. 08:13:51 .. the only way to manage this diversity is to have a functional abstraction 08:14:08 .. then: invoking: nice to call a capability from a browser 08:14:29 .. for IOT to work: I want to invoke from other systems 08:14:36 .. we are using JSON-RPC 08:14:56 .. it allows to access a sensor between devices 08:15:05 .. with total flexibility of using javascript 08:15:26 phila has joined #wot 08:17:07 .. advanced topic: address local, global protection 08:17:26 .. policy sync 08:19:07 .. handle legacy issues 08:19:20 .. at the end there is no single point of control in the architecture 08:19:41 .. this is one of the biggest task that W3C could deal with in the IOT space 08:20:14 .. if W3C will engage in the space, how much of the problem will be in scope? that is what I want to know at the end of the workshop 08:21:15 topic: QA 08:21:27 jeff: what are the 2-3 things we should focus on quickly? 08:21:38 nick: simple javascript abstraction 08:21:42 ... and a security model 08:21:54 .. I have seen things fail if people don't address that upfront 08:22:47 topic: demo elevator pitch 08:25:15 Alan has joined #wot 08:25:44 [short summaries of demo slosts] 08:25:50 s/slosts/slots/ 08:26:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 08:27:49 now coffee break + demos 08:42:05 davecj has joined #wot 08:50:11 davecj has joined #wot 08:54:16 davecj has joined #wot 09:01:56 laurent_oz has joined #wot 09:05:08 laurent_oz has joined #wot 09:06:30 jeff has joined #wot 09:08:23 knagano has joined #wot 09:08:35 aroso has joined #wot 09:09:18 kaz has joined #wot 09:09:22 scribenick: kaz 09:09:28 topic: am2 09:09:45 topic: From things to the Web of Things 09:09:57 topic: Shigeru Owada, Sony -- Kadecot: Android Web API Server for Home Appliances and Sensors 09:10:08 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/papers/owada.pdf Paper 09:10:14 -> Slides tbd 09:10:52 shigeru: (Polling Manager) 09:11:28 ... polling manager publishes how many apps are interested in each resource 09:11:35 ... (WebAPI) 09:11:58 ... WAMP protocol 09:12:41 ... an application named "Moe-kaden" 09:13:11 ... IoT service and cute character 09:13:15 ... (Demos) 09:13:30 ... two videos 09:13:45 ... 1st, RPC demo 09:13:58 ... recognizes your voice input 09:14:08 ... 2nd, PubSub demo 09:14:25 ... distributing manuals 09:15:00 ... ECHONET Lite emmulater 09:15:25 ... in case of errors, manuals will be shown interactively 09:15:41 Q&A 09:16:03 ken: kensaku komatsu from NTT Communications, Japan 09:16:09 ... home server 09:16:21 ... discover the home network server? 09:16:28 ... what kind of mechanism? 09:16:48 shigeru: device will be automatically discovered using ECHONET Lite, etc. 09:16:56 ken: but you use WAMP as well? 09:17:06 shigeru: one possibility is using UPnP, etc. 09:17:25 ken: so the Web browsers should use UPnP, etc. 09:17:28 shigeru: right 09:17:46 Ryuichi Matsukura, Fujitsu -- Service platform with Web based interface to control devices 09:17:51 topic: Ryuichi Matsukura, Fujitsu -- Service platform with Web based interface to control devices 09:18:05 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/papers/matsukura.pdf Paper 09:18:10 -> Slides tbd 09:18:22 ryuichi: (Background) 09:18:33 ... devices connected to network 09:18:43 ... home security, healthcare, HEMS 09:18:59 ... a "service platform" manages the interaction 09:19:21 ... (What is the service platform?) 09:19:32 ... advantages 09:20:15 ... without the service platform, apps depend on different device interfaces 09:20:46 ... the service platform makes it easier to use multiple devices 09:20:57 ... (Deployment of service platform) 09:21:06 ... two types of deployment 09:21:30 ... aggregate type and distribute type 09:21:39 ... (Functional architecture) 09:21:48 ... three categories 09:21:56 ... ITU-T SG 13 work 09:22:23 ... will become a standard by the end of 2014 09:22:26 davecj has joined #wot 09:22:37 ... device adapters 09:23:15 ... three categories: app execution, device operation, remote management 09:23:47 ... if there is a trouble, notice will be sent to the user/admin 09:23:57 ... (Devices applicable to service platform) 09:24:25 ... basic devices 09:24:53 ... air conditioner class has properties like operating status, operating mode 09:25:13 ... basic devices support std interfaces like ECHONET Lite, KNX, SEP 2.0 09:25:19 ... (Basic device operation) 09:25:34 ... home gateway converts device commands 09:25:37 hyojun_im has joined #wot 09:26:20 ... virtual devices correspond to objects 09:26:57 ... s/objects/device objects/ 09:27:07 ... (Device operation without device object) 09:27:20 ... non-basic device can also get conected 09:27:28 s/conected/connected/ 09:27:38 ... (Sample applications for service platform) 09:27:51 ... 24 facilities with 28 kinds of 820 devices 09:28:01 ... ECHONET Lite is used 09:28:29 ... (Conclusion) 09:28:54 ... service platform can flexibly connect with multiple services and multiple devices 09:29:16 ... WoT framework should support existing devices 09:29:23 ... (Video demo) 09:29:41 ... Web interface 09:29:45 ... push "living room" 09:29:59 ... realtime video image 09:30:12 carlos has joined #wot 09:30:14 ... remote interface for the air conditioner 09:30:32 ... would show the details later 09:30:35 Q&A: 09:30:44 dsr: discovery? 09:31:00 ryu: ECHONET Lite has that mechanism as well 09:31:18 (dsr checks where the memory stic is) 09:31:22 s/stic/stick/ 09:32:36 shadi has joined #wot 09:32:41 topic: Ricardo Morin et al, Intel -- Programming Device Ensembles in the Web of Things 09:32:50 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/papers/ricardo.pdf Paper 09:32:54 -> Slides tbd 09:33:10 ricardo: programming device ensembles 09:33:18 Benoit_OrangeLabs has joined #wot 09:33:24 ... (Today's IOT programming model...) 09:33:41 ... embedded computing 09:33:44 ... device centric 09:33:54 ... statically partitioned 09:34:20 ... constrained by device capabilities 09:34:58 ... vendor-specific solution 09:35:10 ... scale limited 09:35:19 ... (WoT model should evolve...) 09:35:30 ... ensemble programming 09:35:37 ... everything is a resource 09:35:49 ... sensors, actuators 09:35:56 ... devices and capabilities 09:36:07 ... app runtimes and app services 09:36:27 ... apps are dynamic 09:36:39 ... resource discovery 09:36:55 phila_ has joined #wot 09:36:57 ... multiparty authorization 09:37:08 ... remote workers 09:37:42 ... e.g., owner of the building, sensors, etc. 09:38:06 ... off-loading computation 09:38:31 those are three particular areas to consider 09:38:41 ... (Discover "nearby" sensors 09:38:47 s/sensors/sensors)/ 09:38:50 ... need APIs 09:39:07 ... hide the details 09:39:21 ... intelligent container 09:40:24 ... location sensor for cargo 09:40:31 ... URL for resources 09:40:42 ... could be global advertisement 09:40:54 ... discovery phase must be semantic 09:41:05 ... concept of "near" 09:41:17 ... meets the criteria 09:41:44 ... the semantics of "near" includes "local" 09:42:16 ... what is the permission? 09:42:30 ... user managed access 09:43:05 ... fundamental hypothesis is "you don't know anything" 09:43:50 ... (Off-load intensive computation) 09:44:16 ... we propose using workers model 09:44:49 ... (Putting it together...) 09:44:55 ... intelligent container 09:45:17 ... (Our tam is ready to participate and contribute in these areas) 09:45:33 ... discovery, authorization , code off-loading 09:45:42 Q&A: 09:45:49 jeff: tx for interesting presentation 09:45:57 ... well-defined areas 09:46:17 ricardo: UMA is IETF standard 09:46:24 ... publicly available 09:46:40 jeff: remote support? 09:47:02 ricardo: yes 09:47:16 dsr: demo during the breakout 09:47:41 topic: Dave Conway-Jones, IBM -- Node-RED: a wiring tool for the Internet of Things 09:47:53 -> http://nodered.org/ web site 09:47:54 Jeff: Are some of the new areas such as remote support available in a public document 09:48:27 dave: (Node-RED) 09:48:28 Ricardo: We have worked on such areas, mostly it is error handling (e.g. no resource available) that needs to be added to the Workers spec. We can provide that. 09:49:03 dave: (Why Node-RED) 09:49:46 ... IoT does not have a one-size-fits-all solution 09:50:01 ... (We need tools...) 09:50:36 ... Node-RED can fill that up 09:51:00 ... visiting the web site: http://nodered.org/ 09:51:21 ,,. (actually localhost) 09:51:37 s/,,./.../ 09:51:57 ... (draw a diagram and generate JavaScript automatically) 09:52:05 davecj has joined #wot 09:52:29 ... e.g., sending an email 09:52:46 ... (Node-RED is) 09:53:02 ... app generation tool 09:53:10 ... (Node-RED is NOT) 09:53:29 ... an enterprise strength application runtime 09:54:04 ... (Inject node, Debug node, ...) 09:55:07 ... (Node-RED animation) 09:55:29 ... (From the edge of...) 09:55:47 ... (Function Node) 09:56:04 ... (Easy to wrap any npm module into a pallete node) 09:56:15 ... (demo again) 09:56:24 s/demo/demo on localhost/ 09:57:14 davecj has joined #wot 09:57:18 ... IRC node to WebSocket 09:57:33 ... works and easy 09:58:04 davecj has joined #wot 09:58:31 ... (Live Wordcloud) 09:58:40 ... (Live Dashboards) 09:58:47 aharth has joined #wot 09:59:01 ... (From the edge of the network...) 09:59:15 ... (... to the cloud - IBM Bluemix) 09:59:32 ... easy to move flows 09:59:39 ... (Wiring the internet of things 10:00:03 janina has joined #wot 10:00:21 @@@: need parameter description? 10:00:29 ... how to maintain? 10:00:32 ... who defines? 10:00:57 dave: actual messages are described here (type and ID description) 10:01:19 s/@@@/Andreas Harth, KIT 10:01:19 @@@: have to convince people to write the descriptions? 10:01:32 s/@@@/Andreas Harth, KIT 10:01:59 ###: schema for input/output? 10:02:14 s/###/Johannes Hund, Siemens 10:02:24 dsr: can talk during breakout sessions 10:02:36 @@1: working on protocols 10:02:47 ... interested to talk with you 10:03:00 topic: Kazuo Kajimoto, Panasonic -- Consumer Electronics and Web of Things 10:03:29 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/slides/kajimoto.pdf Slides 10:03:48 kazuo: (WoT Applications around CEs) 10:03:54 ... many possibilities 10:04:27 ... smart house example 10:04:34 ... (Wonder Live Box 2020) 10:04:52 ... smart home business globally 10:05:08 ... working with house manufacturers 10:05:21 ... using ECHONET 10:05:30 s/@@1/Jon Nordby, The Grid 10:05:53 ... the system works with the other companies' devices as well 10:06:37 ... convenient, relaxed and high quality life in the near future 10:06:48 s/future/future (in 2020) 10:07:03 ... (WoT Model Description and APIs) 10:07:12 ... abstract architecture 10:07:33 ... right side is the physical world 10:07:53 ... vertualization of devices 10:08:32 ... application cloud APIs to control vertualized devices 10:08:47 ... that is type 1 interface 10:09:01 ... type 2 interface is device APIs 10:09:38 ... there are those two different types of APIs 10:09:52 ... (Comparison of App-Cloud API and Device API) 10:10:11 ... cloud might be an agent of device 10:11:40 ... both types are important 10:11:54 ... we'd like to contribute to type 1 10:12:10 ... (Physical Control Protocol Independency) 10:12:22 ... many physical control protocols 10:12:46 ... but they should be independent from app cloud APIs 10:13:05 davecj has joined #wot 10:13:33 ... (Variety of App-Cloud API Description) 10:13:50 janina has joined #wot 10:14:07 ... our current system is based on JS assuming WebSocket 10:14:17 ... trying to support various mechanisms 10:14:31 ... (Type of App-Cloud API) 10:14:41 ... four types of APIs 10:14:48 ... (Concern) 10:15:00 ... WoT is our dream 10:15:08 ... but there is some concern 10:15:27 ... safety issues, privacy issues and business/security issues 10:15:35 davecj has joined #wot 10:15:53 ... if somebody controls my air conditioner, that's not good 10:16:26 davecj has joined #wot 10:16:27 ... also an app might be able to peep the others' houses 10:16:43 ... user authentication might be better 10:17:00 ... better to provide both open API and authority managed API 10:17:09 Q&A: 10:17:47 topic: Laurent-Walter Goix, et al, Telecom Italia -- Smart social spaces: opportunities and challenges of the social web of things 10:17:55 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/papers/goix.pdf Paper 10:18:02 -> Slides tbd 10:19:00 laurent: concept is mentioned by Ericsson some years ago 10:19:13 ... 2009 10:19:20 ... (Smart Social Spaces) 10:19:32 ... issues we're facing 10:19:51 ... smart objects 10:19:56 ... smart social spaces 10:20:17 ... (Smart Social Spaces: our vision from IoT to (S)WoT) 10:20:50 ... integration of IoT with the Web is limited 10:21:29 ... (S.W.O.T on SWoT: so what?) 10:22:03 ... activity streams 10:22:17 ... each of things is an entity 10:22:38 ... identity and relationship 10:23:15 ... missing data model 10:23:35 ... having discussion on social web of things 10:24:07 ... coming up these days 10:24:35 ...(Social Web of Things: (some) features & issues) 10:24:47 ... cloud-based notifications 10:24:54 ... local space notifications 10:26:50 ... common issues: SN account vs object addressing, access control ad audience targeting, information filtering, interaction paradigms 10:27:33 ... temperature information is not of users' interest 10:27:49 ... internationalization 10:28:09 ... concurrent (multiple) access 10:28:21 ... sharing one thing with many people 10:28:30 ... (BUTLER Smart Office trial) 10:28:42 ... FP7 BUTLER project 10:29:15 ... (Current standardization activities: Open Mobile Alliance) 10:29:29 ... white paper on "social web of things" 10:29:51 ... (Our interest within W3C) 10:30:06 ... web of things wg focusing on "Things" 10:30:31 ... social web wg focusing on "social" 10:30:45 Q&A: 10:30:51 dave: interesting 10:31:17 ... the way works today is each social services are separate 10:31:35 ... should work for multiple parties 10:31:46 ... that's the purpose of OMA work 10:32:05 s/Dave/Dave Conway-Jones, IBM 10:32:28 s/dave:/Dave Conway-Jones/ 10:32:34 s/Jones/Jones:/ 10:32:38 [ lunch ] 10:32:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:32:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html kaz 11:30:40 knagano has joined #wot 11:32:06 jch has joined #wot 11:38:03 ArtB has joined #wot 11:42:29 libby has joined #wot 11:51:36 scribe: Marie 11:51:42 scribenick: marie 11:52:12 [presenting breakout discussions] 11:52:14 ph has joined #wot 11:52:22 scribe: ph 11:52:38 Topic: Security 11:52:46 scribenick: ph 11:52:56 Topic: Object Security in Web of Things - Ericsson 11:54:25 janina has joined #wot 11:54:51 RRSAgent, make minutes 11:54:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html ArtB 11:56:52 lmedini has joined #wot 12:04:03 Walter_Goix has joined #wot 12:05:03 Q (Joerg, Siemens): with constrained devices you may need hardware support - how does this work out? 12:05:45 A: some constrained devices cannot handle all the standards, others can - if device cannot handle, need gateway to handle standards, and prop protocol, which may not provide security 12:06:04 security may not always be needed in local situation 12:06:38 Topic: Authentication for the Web of Things (Siemens) 12:23:01 Q (Jeff, W3C): on automotive as best practice - they are hybrid apps - we have automotive bg in w3c - have you looked at that? same conclusions? 12:23:12 A: right now apps are testing the market 12:23:27 in automotive - car industry spending lots of money not for current use cases, but prepare for more 12:23:44 any function car has should be available via api to developers 12:23:57 massive hypothesis, they are testing it with "toy solutions" 12:24:53 Q (??): when i unlock car, why do i have to login to the cloud? why can't i talk to car directly? 12:25:25 A: business decision by car manufacturers - they are sensitive about crm store - not in the cloud, but in the data centers of vendors 12:27:53 s/Q (??)/Q (Andreas Harth)/ 12:27:54 shadi has joined #wot 12:28:55 Topic: Trust-based Discovery for Web of Things Markets (Innova) 12:30:12 [note that the monohm talk was cancelled as they weren't able to get here] 12:34:42 jeff has joined #wot 12:40:20 aroso has joined #wot 12:41:26 Q (Joerg, Siemens): did you look at standardisation? 12:41:46 A: W3C is part of this project - wrt trust: our vocabularies are based on W3C results 12:42:07 also follow linked data approach - from linked data to linked services 12:42:19 Q (Joerg): do you have deployed applications? 12:43:04 A: not yet - testing with three different use cases - two smart cities - one for example on ski slopes - weather forecast from the slopes - also retail use case 12:43:29 Topic: Breakout organization, elevator pitches for breakouts 12:43:47 rrsagent, make minutes 12:43:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html ph 12:44:09 See the breakout wiki: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Web_of_Things_Workshop_Breakout_Sessions 12:44:39 JonathanJ has joined #wot 12:46:34 Andreas Harth (KIT): Scripting in the WoT - how to specifiy interplay between sensors using rules 12:46:54 if sensor x has value y, do z 12:47:44 Dave Raggett, W3C: Service Description for the Web of Things - need way to describe services, what they depend on, what they export ... parallels to linux packaging 12:48:54 Erik Wilde (Siemens): very close to what Dave has proposed - if you had service descriptions, how do you interact with these services - Atom inspired 12:49:07 interaction models for the web of things 12:49:53 also relation to social web wg - and activity streams - can wot infulence what happens in that wg, use it etc. 12:50:41 Alessio (Innova): Business model for WoT - buiy and sell objects - some platforms already exist, but are they sustainable? 12:52:02 Jens Haupert (DFKI): Digital object memories for WoT - store information with object throughout its lifecycle 12:54:07 Dominique Guinard (Evrtyhng): The Web of Things Friendly Label - guidelines for device builders and cloud services builders 12:54:31 inspiration from JS world where there are frameworks for building scalable apps 12:55:39 Rferraz has joined #wot 12:56:03 Hauke Perterse (Free University): Appllicaiton layer protocols and data encoding for constrained devices - want to have end2end connenctivity to constrained devices - look at emerging protocols that are more efficient than standard web protocols (http, xml based) 12:57:18 Johm Massonn (Ericsson): Privacy in the Web of Things - lot of data on WoT will not be protected - home sensors give detailed information on how we live - 13:08:04 s/buiy/buy/ 13:13:09 s/Appllicaiton/Application 13:31:37 janina has joined #wot 13:38:22 topic: Breakout 13:38:42 topic: Interaction Models for the Web of Things, Erik Wilde 13:39:03 -> http://dret.net/netdret/docs/wot2014-w3c/ Erik's slides 14:31:52 davecj has joined #wot 14:45:48 arno has joined #wot 14:48:37 davecj has joined #wot 14:49:25 davecj has joined #wot 14:49:38 davecj has joined #wot 14:50:45 davecj has joined #wot 14:51:08 davecj has joined #wot 14:51:30 davecj has joined #wot 14:52:24 davecj has joined #wot 14:53:07 davecj has joined #wot 14:53:32 davecj has joined #wot 14:55:07 davecj has joined #wot 14:55:21 davecj has joined #wot 15:01:24 janina has joined #wot 15:04:19 ph has joined #wot 15:04:19 scribe: marie 15:04:22 knagano has joined #wot 15:04:28 scribenick: marie 15:04:48 Topic: Breakout Session #1 15:05:17 @@: service descriptions should focus on developers needs - simple APIs are prefered 15:05:42 saka has joined #wot 15:05:44 ... also foucs on relevant market places 15:06:06 ... let's focus on reviews, payments details, etc. 15:06:29 [minutes of this breakout session were already sent to dsr] 15:06:55 Topic: Breakout session #2 - Interaction Models for the Web of Things 15:08:57 Erik Wilde: may be those models are able enough, and cover most if the usgae scenarii 15:10:10 ... within Siemens, scenrios include home and office contexts, acting as hubs where we would gave a transversal interaction services 15:10:18 ... exposing the services in a uniform way 15:11:56 ... all is in fluc anyway. The social Web WG is starting, so I'd recommend to check what's happening in that space 15:13:10 ... also, let's explore how to reach out to this social web group from with what was discussed during this wsp 15:14:29 [this breakout session minutes are also avail.] 15:14:43 Topic: Breakout session #3 - Business models for the WoT 15:16:24 Alession Gugliotta: standards for APis, standards for hardware developers, as well, as reuse of existing standards (security, etc.) 15:18:05 ... we also discussed revenue models and suggested some 15:18:11 [minutes to be sent] 15:18:41 Topic: Breakout session #3 - The WoT friendly label 15:18:53 Dominique Guinard: (has slides) 15:19:29 ... we felt that coming up with a label was important, since becoming an upstream topic 15:20:04 ... WoT should be the app layer of the IoT 15:20:46 ... we looked at several freindliness layers ... may be come up with a set of guidelines 15:21:32 ... what should be friendly? devices, clouds, etc. May be have a WoT friednly stamp 15:22:39 kaz has joined #wot 15:22:45 ... what would a bare minimum to have a friendly device? 15:23:28 ... we also talked about different protocols 15:24:03 ... and that there should be support to all of those and that bridges between those should be avail. 15:24:57 lmedini has joined #wot 15:25:40 janina has joined #wot 15:25:41 ... finally, the findability layer 15:26:04 ... how do I find my device on the Web 15:27:08 ... reuse what's already in place, such as Web security 15:27:31 ... thinking to create sth like schema.org for the IoT 15:27:53 ... encapsulated Web objets including the data and the metadata 15:28:13 [breakout session notes to be sent later] 15:29:50 Topic: Breakout session #4 - Privacy 15:30:17 @@: around 1é-13 people. Strong agreemnt that this is a strong issue, but also an hard issue to solve 15:30:28 ... different regulations in dieffrent countries do exist 15:30:39 s/1é/12 15:31:08 ... need o find breaches to pursue legal actions 15:31:28 ... some people believe that regulations are the only way 15:31:36 bgidon has joined #wot 15:31:43 ... others say that regulators miss the point 15:32:19 ... right to revoke data access is a minimum need 15:33:05 ... group thought that W3C shoudl play a role to draft a policy data 15:33:12 (notes to be mailed out) 15:33:42 Topic: Panel session on core technologies - moderated by Jörg Heuer, Siemens 15:34:44 Jörg: what technologies and what enable these technologies 15:34:59 [introducing panelists] 15:36:16 dsr has joined #wot 15:37:09 Charampalos Doukas, CreateNet 15:38:35 CD: purpose of my talk is how to bridge Web to the iOt 15:38:52 s/iOt/IoT 15:39:28 ... it's up to dev. and siftware producers to select the best 15:40:59 ... about W3C contribution: it can identify solutions to the ap level 15:41:02 s/ap/app 15:41:30 CD: the COMPOSE approach is to use JSON and meta tags 15:41:45 JonathanJ3 has joined #wot 15:41:53 ... to describe REST inside messages... W3C to standradize a schema? 15:42:27 CD: I'll show a demo tomorrow - check it out 15:43:49 ... links of interest: glue.things, cloud foundry, Node Red... if you want to play with our platform, go to mobiledemo.compose-project.eu 15:44:13 Matthias Kovatsch, ETH Zurich 15:44:46 MK: "Let the WoT begin at the device level" is a simple statement 15:45:06 s/is a /is my 15:45:48 ... device interoperability 15:46:02 ... usability of the Web to create new and more complex apps 15:46:23 ... creating value, optimizing processes are the goals 15:46:45 Markus Isomäki, Nokia 15:48:07 MI: my statement is "Interaction between Web clients and 'Constrained' Smart objects" 15:49:08 ... withing the owp, we are missing the ability to communicate with these devices 15:49:33 ... the CUAP protocol - an API for that would be useful 15:49:55 s/CUAP/CoAP/ 15:50:54 Milan Patel, Huawei 15:51:59 MP: items of considerations in order to choose core techs for the WoT 15:52:13 ... message today, what let's reuse as much as we can 15:52:21 s/what/that 15:52:40 ... every device/sensor out there should be LTE connected 15:53:16 JonathanJ has joined #wot 15:53:21 ... having gateways allows protocol transmissions, and a certain level of security as well 15:53:40 ... providing to dev. effective toolkits 15:54:23 rrsagent, draft minute 15:54:23 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minute', JonathanJ3. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:54:24 ... consistency of data sets across use cases 15:54:36 rrsagent, make minutes 15:54:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html marie 15:54:58 ... privacy should not be a barrier to innovation 15:55:25 Charles Eckel, Cisco 15:56:30 CE: real time communications, video conferencing, etc. is my background/experience 15:57:22 ... comm between apps and network, with additionnal devices - how are these are going to exist and operate in an optimal way 15:58:52 janina has joined #wot 15:58:53 ... network providers need to support a wide range of apps. 15:59:07 ... apps to interact directly with the network 15:59:34 ... the network should give back the information on the devices' constraints 16:00:34 Jörg: quite different perceptions on the panel topic 16:01:49 scribenick: ph 16:02:02 scribe: Philipp 16:02:33 Mathias: ... 16:03:52 Charles: Money will be a big driver of what gets deployed. 16:03:58 Charles: web of things is presentation of information, understanding it - money will be a driver - desire of people to share information could be a driver - 16:04:43 Milan: most applications have human end consumer from brainstorming i've done today and earlier - strong driver for wot is power of mashing together data from different sources 16:05:55 and add value - health, energy, disability, sports, .... - there will also be devices interacting with each other 16:06:39 Markus: don't see open standards in industry right now - many silos - web just used for representation of data to the user - interaction with the device pre-determined by the vendor 16:07:19 more opennes driven by developers and potential to mash up data coming from different vendors - something single vendor silos are not able to do 16:08:47 Matthias: a lot of people already noticed silos don't work - coap was designed to connect devices using web patterns - oma has device management standards - created lightweight m2m standard that builds on top of coap - 16:09:06 there is also ipso alliance - smart objects connected through ip 16:10:10 Joerg: is there a definition of web of things? is part of internet of things? do we have same understanding? What is difference between IoT? 16:10:45 Matthias: web and internet relation is same as wot iot relation - web is application layer of internet - wot plays same role for iot 16:11:26 ... 16:12:07 Markus: pretty good definition - there's a bit of utopia in there, but I think it's reachable looking at the success of the web 16:12:24 Milan: web of things is what will add value to the internet of things 16:13:08 Charles: web of things will bring iot to vast amount of people - just like web did for computer usage - for everyone 16:13:48 Charalampos: web of things is the user side of internet of things - web of things is using technologies that browsers can communicate with 16:14:01 rrsagent, make minutes 16:14:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html ph 16:15:02 Joerg: would like to open it up a little - we observed that APIs are needed to get developers interested - others said to focus on protocols - Markus, where do you see balance between API and protocol technology? 16:15:51 Markus: protocols are just the necessary tools - Web has worked well without introducing many new protocols - there is webrtc standardisation that required new comm protocol (UDP, RTP) 16:16:20 if we want to enable local comm with constrained devices we may need some new protocols in the web platform 16:16:39 we have xmlhttpreqest API right now - maybe we need sth new 16:16:52 or a higher level API where you don't need to think about protocol 16:17:00 but additions should be minimal 16:17:10 COAP is on that path in my opinion 16:19:01 Wolfgang Daust(?): regarding protocols - things means something physical - it has not only a sensor, but also an actuator - completely different from a human being - different response times 16:19:34 the new thing is relationship to time - it matters for things 16:20:02 Charles: i agree with that - that's why I mentioned network constraints 16:20:23 you may want to know what is realtime and what is just bulk sensor data 16:21:07 Charalampos: not a matter of a new protocol - it's not web on things, but of things - some decisions can be done locally 16:21:09 rferraz has joined #wot 16:22:31 Joerg: on the application layer, what are the technologies we see as part of web of things - we talked about cross-vertical integration - what technologies are available to descsribe information we are exchanging, and to describe the services 16:23:20 "please no new protocols" - are we already there? 16:23:51 Charalampos: there are efforts to describe sensors semantically - how to describe services is also important so that they can be reused easily 16:25:09 Matthias: we can learn from the web - many services that are easy to discover - use linking - many ways to describe services - microformants, schema.org, ... something is emerging - we still need some experience with wot, but am confident that we can pick one of the existing approaches 16:26:04 ...: we talked a lot about data - but things can have logic embedded as well - but they are constrained - constraints are a difference between web of things and web of services 16:26:18 requires rule engines embedded into these things 16:27:10 Charles: one of the presentations this morning discussed this well - data will be passed into the cloud to do crunching - if thing has more capacity, can do computation ittself 16:27:40 Charalampos: ... 16:28:25 Matthias: question is where you put your RESTful API - ... - can push it into the cloud 16:28:28 to save money 16:28:31 on device 16:29:05 Johannes: is electrical vehicle a thing, or too big? what is a thing in WoT? 16:30:05 Matthias: in Web, you link resources together - resources can be composed - you can make it as big as you want, but also drill down do lowest sensor 16:30:29 Markus: similar to question: what is a resource? 16:30:40 rrsagent, make minutes 16:30:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html ph 16:32:10 Joerg: ... what are your expectations towards W3C? 16:32:58 Matthias: core components that made the web evolve - html - missing something like html for things - good representations, internet media types - should be reusable for many domains - not a model for each domain 16:33:08 should have core data model that can be reused and specialised 16:33:44 protocols we need more - also api - today web defined by what's in a browser - would like have a coap api, or even better a REST API 16:35:05 Markus: web sockets have brought asynch comm - webrtc bringing in p2p and realtime - communication with constrained devices still missing - COAP API - device apis there has been a lot of work already 16:35:10 there will be more of that 16:35:32 how do you describe services and resources third area of work 16:36:51 Milan: identifying technologies that are applicable to wot and iot w3c should do - w3c has re-examined technologies whether they fit mobile - should ask question again - are technologies wot friendly - how to make subtle changes so we can accomodate it given market is massive 16:37:33 Charles: I hope W3C won't do a whole bunch of new protocols - W3C should focus on APIs, data models 16:37:47 also something to replace inefficient polling - some sort of notification 16:38:26 Charalampos: would like to see more events like this, more open to developers - need to listen to their needs 16:38:41 rrsagent, make minutes 16:38:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html ph 16:38:58 Topic: Wrap-Up 16:39:30 Joerg: fog has cleared - look out of the window - there is some light 16:39:48 but still a little foggy 16:40:31 important to continue to talk to each other and continue conversations we started also after tomorrow evening 16:40:36 rrsagent, make minutes 16:40:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-wot-minutes.html ph 17:47:54 libby has joined #wot 17:52:47 ArtB has left #wot 18:46:02 libby has joined #wot 20:21:40 a3344 has joined #wot 21:00:49 holiday has joined #wot 21:03:08 zorg has joined #wot 21:26:23 davecj has joined #wot 21:42:36 davecj has joined #wot