IRC log of webtv on 2014-06-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:01:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:01:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-webtv-irc
13:01:02 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:01:04 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:01:04 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:01:05 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
13:01:05 [trackbot]
Date: 25 June 2014
13:01:08 [gmandyam]
gmandyam has joined #webtv
13:01:20 [yosuke]
yosuke has joined #webtv
13:01:22 [aldafu]
aldafu has joined #webtv
13:01:41 [ddavis]
zakim, this is 932881
13:01:41 [Zakim]
ok, ddavis; that matches UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM
13:01:50 [Zakim]
+??P2
13:01:53 [ddavis]
zakim, ??P2 is me
13:01:53 [Zakim]
+ddavis; got it
13:02:01 [ddavis]
zakim, who is here?
13:02:02 [Zakim]
+ +49.303.aaaa
13:02:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see gmandyam, ddavis, +49.303.aaaa
13:02:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aldafu, yosuke, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, ddavis, wuwei, jcverdie, MarkS, tobie, schuki, timeless_, trackbot
13:02:30 [aldafu]
Zakim: +49.303.is me
13:02:32 [Bin_Hu]
Bin_Hu has joined #webtv
13:02:57 [Zakim]
+EricP
13:03:04 [aldafu]
Zakim, +49.303.aaaa is me
13:03:04 [Zakim]
+aldafu; got it
13:03:31 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:03:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.946.aabb
13:03:51 [Bin_Hu]
zakim, aabb is me
13:03:51 [Zakim]
+Bin_Hu; got it
13:04:27 [yosuke]
zakim, who is here?
13:04:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see gmandyam, ddavis, aldafu, wuwei, [IPcaller], Bin_Hu
13:04:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Bin_Hu, aldafu, yosuke, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, ddavis, wuwei, jcverdie, MarkS, tobie, schuki, timeless_, trackbot
13:04:29 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
13:04:29 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
13:05:06 [yosuke]
zakim, [+IPcaller] is me
13:05:07 [Zakim]
sorry, yosuke, I do not recognize a party named '[+IPcaller]'
13:05:32 [yosuke]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:05:32 [Zakim]
+yosuke; got it
13:06:30 [ddavis]
zakim, unmute me
13:06:30 [Zakim]
ddavis should no longer be muted
13:06:38 [ddavis]
scribenick: ddavis
13:06:42 [ddavis]
scribe: Daniel
13:07:28 [ddavis]
Previous minutes: http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-webtv-minutes.html
13:07:33 [yosuke]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs#Iterations_and_Timeline
13:08:20 [ddavis]
yosuke: Here is a timeline of the use cases and requirements.
13:08:31 [ddavis]
yosuke: Today, we'll finalise the use cases
13:08:35 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
13:08:35 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
13:08:58 [ddavis]
yosuke: After that, we'll work on the requirements and gap analysis
13:09:25 [ddavis]
yosuke: We'll have a one-day face-to-face meeting at TPAC in October
13:09:33 [ddavis]
yosuke: Any comments or questions about the schedule?
13:09:47 [Zakim]
+CyrilRa
13:09:59 [ddavis]
Topic: Use cases
13:10:32 [yosuke]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas
13:11:18 [ddavis]
yosuke: Let's check whether each use case is worth pursuing.
13:11:21 [ddavis]
zakim, unmute me
13:11:21 [Zakim]
ddavis should no longer be muted
13:13:18 [ddavis]
ddavis: Audio fingerprinting is when the app listens to a short clip of audio and compares that to a database of existing media. It can then offer more information to the user or e.g. share it on social networks.
13:13:58 [ddavis]
yosuke: I think we can include this use case. We may be able to implement this system using client and server technology but there may be a better way using web APIs.
13:14:53 [ddavis]
ddavis: I agree. My instinct is it could be possible already with existing APIs but we should investigate this during the gap analysis phase.
13:15:00 [ddavis]
yosuke: OK, so let's include this.
13:17:19 [ddavis]
ddavis: Audio watermarking is similar but media is detected by audio tones that are inaudible to humans. These are unique to each media.
13:17:29 [ddavis]
yosuke: let's deal with this use case in the IG as well.
13:17:46 [ddavis]
ddavis: The next use case has been removed because it's already part of the HTML spec.
13:18:18 [whyun]
whyun has joined #webtv
13:18:19 [ddavis]
ddavis: The two synchronisation use cases have not changed since the last call.
13:18:58 [ddavis]
yosuke: I think these could be included too.
13:19:27 [ddavis]
ddavis: I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks these are too similar to second-screen use cases we did in the previous gap analysis iteration.
13:19:43 [wuwei]
wuwei has joined #webtv
13:20:00 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: In the first round, synchronisation was covered but the scenario was slightly different.
13:20:13 [Zakim]
+??P14
13:20:20 [gmandyam]
q+
13:20:30 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: In this scenario, the media is played at identical times so it's different.
13:20:50 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: The media stream may not be identical but it's played at the same time.
13:21:02 [whyun]
zakim, ??P14 is me
13:21:02 [Zakim]
+whyun; got it
13:21:14 [whyun]
zakim, mute me
13:21:14 [Zakim]
whyun should now be muted
13:21:18 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: We can investigate to see if there's any overlap.
13:22:08 [ddavis]
yosuke: There may be some overlap but it's worth investigating.
13:22:26 [ddavis]
gmandyam: We've discussed this in ATSC. One example is tracks from multiple cameras
13:22:38 [ddavis]
gmandyam: There's scepticism as to how important that use case is.
13:23:18 [ddavis]
gmandyam: It could be looked into but I won't go into too much technical detail on this call.
13:23:51 [ddavis]
yosuke: I understand your point - there have been some ideas from the broadcasting industry to use multiple cameras and synchronise those screens.
13:24:02 [ddavis]
yosuke: This is supposed to increase engagement.
13:24:19 [ddavis]
yosuke: That kind of use case has been suggested but not actually adopted.
13:24:32 [CyrilRa]
CyrilRa has joined #webtv
13:24:46 [ddavis]
yosuke: There are movements in web technologies that combine multiple views into one data source.
13:25:18 [ddavis]
yosuke: There are JavaScript frameworks that can achieve this - you can see the same object in different places within the DOM.
13:25:54 [ddavis]
yosuke: It's good to look into this use case again.
13:26:43 [ddavis]
yosuke: Next - interactive overlay.
13:27:00 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: This is from a feature that's already available on native platforms.
13:27:18 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: An event is triggered by in-band or out-band triggering mechanisms.
13:27:28 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: In-band means the events are embedded in the media stream.
13:27:50 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: Such as text or other tracks.
13:28:02 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: Out-band is at the platform level.
13:28:19 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: Platform triggers are passed to an API - the app can receive these events.
13:28:40 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: The web app can overlay the triggered content on top of the current media screen.
13:28:53 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: The use case is just how the user perceives this type of event.
13:29:37 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: The more important part is that this use case requires a more generic API to handle in-band and out-band triggers.
13:30:18 [ddavis]
yosuke: I think this use case is also interesting because we don't have a generic API to cover this.
13:30:34 [ddavis]
yosuke: External standards organisations are defining their own APIs for this.
13:30:56 [ddavis]
yosuke: Currently, web standards are heading towards more declarative or generic APIs so it's a good time to tackle this use case.
13:31:41 [ddavis]
yosuke: Next use case is Clean Audio
13:34:02 [ddavis]
ddavis: This was submitted by Janina from the media accessibility sub-group
13:34:12 [ddavis]
gmandyam: How is this different to just synchronisation.
13:34:28 [ddavis]
s/synchronisation./synchronisation?/
13:34:55 [ddavis]
yosuke: I'm not sure this use case is a special case. I added a comment that this use case conflicts with EME.
13:35:13 [ddavis]
yosuke: EME doesn't allow users to modify or manage audio tracks.
13:35:34 [ddavis]
yosuke: Synchronisation use cases don't include modification.
13:37:18 [ddavis]
ddavis: Increasing or decreasing certain frequencies differentiates it from the other use cases IMO.
13:38:31 [ddavis]
tune the app to the frequencies that are best for that
13:38:31 [ddavis]
particular viewer.
13:38:31 [ddavis]
... This is a very important strategy.
13:38:31 [ddavis]
... It could also be possible to use the same app in the cinema
13:38:32 [ddavis]
watching movies."
13:39:32 [ddavis]
ddavis: Even if it does affect EME it's still relevant for content that's not protected.
13:39:59 [ddavis]
yosuke: If EME allows this or not, then the accessibility task force should talk to the HTML Media Task Force
13:40:46 [ddavis]
ddavis: I can suggest that to Mark Sadecki
13:41:03 [ddavis]
ACTION: ddavis to bring up issue of frequency-changing affecting EME
13:41:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-204 - Bring up issue of frequency-changing affecting eme [on Daniel Davis - due 2014-07-02].
13:41:25 [ddavis]
yosuke: I think at least we should keep this use case as a specific example of synchronisation.
13:42:18 [ddavis]
yosuke: We can see if it's different depending on feedback from Mark (accessibility group).
13:42:59 [ddavis]
yosuke: I put a note about the web and TV accessibility initiative at the bottom of the page.
13:43:22 [ddavis]
yosuke: Mark S, Janina and I exchanged some ideas.
13:43:38 [gmandyam]
q+
13:43:38 [yosuke]
http://5stardata.info/
13:43:44 [ddavis]
yosuke: One was a concept of 5-star accessibility, similar to the 5-star open data measurement process.
13:44:18 [ddavis]
yosuke: This has helped increase awareness of linked open data on the web and a similar thing could be done for accessibility.
13:44:52 [ddavis]
yosuke: There could be a rating system for accessibility to see the achievement of a site.
13:45:18 [ddavis]
gmandyam: Another thing we've been discussing in ATSC is personalisation information, for example closed caption preference.
13:45:35 [ddavis]
gmandyam: Extensions to the runtime engine are necessary for this feature so that apps can get access to use your preferences.
13:45:59 [ddavis]
gmandyam: There's standardised storage preferences. Is this something the accessibility efforts have been considering?
13:46:36 [ddavis]
gmandyam: This is a case where the persistent storage mechanism (appcache, cookies) are not sufficient and cross-domain issues, but data like this is universally applicable.
13:46:51 [ddavis]
yosuke: The team is now creating media accessibility guidelines.
13:47:00 [ddavis]
yosuke: I'm not sure it covers this point.
13:48:18 [ddavis]
yosuke: We're not sure that the guidelines will cover this and other efforts in other SDOs.
13:48:41 [ddavis]
yosuke: We can check this and make sure things are inline.
13:49:10 [yosuke]
q?
13:49:20 [gmandyam]
ack gmandyam
13:49:43 [ddavis]
yosuke: A further thing we discussed is to make the the accessibility guidelines relevant for the TV industry.
13:50:07 [ddavis]
gmandyam: I don't like other standards bodies creating new web APIs for their use cases.
13:50:44 [ddavis]
gmandyam: If the accessibility group can come up with a recommendation that would be useful.
13:51:47 [ddavis]
yosuke: Third idea is a work in progress which is deciding the use cases and working with the accessibility sub-group.
13:51:59 [ddavis]
yosuke: There is also work going on in the TV Control API Community Group
13:52:28 [ddavis]
yosuke: This group will define a new API and they'd like to make sure that it satisfies the accessibility requirements.
13:53:06 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: The TV Control API CG so far has taken technical requirements - we plan to finish this input stage by July 6th.
13:53:25 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: So far we have input from Mozilla and the BBC regarding channel scan, etc.
13:53:40 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: One use case talks about accessibility-related requirements but it's very simple.
13:54:07 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: So we're still collecting use cases. Next we'll work with the editors to address the technical requirements.
13:54:52 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: One requirement is the ability to show subtitles, the other is the ability to play supplementary audio tracks (descriptions).
13:55:18 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: We are not quite clear if those use cases would satisfy the accessibility guidelines.
13:55:58 [jcverdie]
jcverdie has joined #webtv
13:56:11 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: Another question is how accessibility APIs could benefit the whole TV industry, considering this TV Control API is only a part of hybrid TV.
13:56:20 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: It's still a grey area.
13:57:43 [ddavis]
yosuke: So we should start with the big picture and when we dig into the TV Control API, if it helps accessibility then we address it then.
13:58:13 [ddavis]
yosuke: Daniel and I will talk about how to proceed with the accessibility team.
13:58:39 [ddavis]
Topic: Info for IG members about testing
13:58:51 [ddavis]
yosuke: The co-chairs are re-visiting testing efforts.
13:59:08 [ddavis]
yosuke: The chairs sent a message to other SDOs to ask about their thoughts about testing.
13:59:20 [ddavis]
yosuke: The email was sent on June 19th and we're waiting for replies.
13:59:30 [ddavis]
yosuke: We'd like to share them when we have some replies.
13:59:47 [ddavis]
yosuke: I think that's all for now.
13:59:58 [ddavis]
Topic: Summary
14:00:24 [ddavis]
yosuke: How about creating a spreadsheet that summarises the use cases?
14:00:38 [ddavis]
ddavis: What's the best format for that?
14:00:52 [ddavis]
yosuke: The format we used for the first round is good.
14:01:02 [ddavis]
ddavis: OK, so we can copy it and change the data.
14:01:22 [ddavis]
yosuke: So we will create that spreadsheet to work collaboratively online.
14:01:39 [ddavis]
yosuke: Then we can work together on the gap analysis and requirements.
14:01:53 [ddavis]
yosuke: Any other business?
14:01:56 [yosuke]
q?
14:02:10 [wuwei]
q+ a11y
14:02:13 [ddavis]
ACTION: yosuke and ddavis to create online docs for requirements/gap analysis
14:02:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-205 - And ddavis to create online docs for requirements/gap analysis [on Yosuke Funahashi - due 2014-07-02].
14:02:17 [wuwei]
unmute me
14:02:23 [ddavis]
ack wuwei
14:02:41 [ddavis]
wuwei: I'm from the accessibility team.
14:02:55 [ddavis]
wuwei: Talking about the use cases, what's the timeline for discussing the use cases?
14:03:29 [yosuke]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs#Iterations_and_Timeline
14:03:53 [ddavis]
yosuke: For this second iteration of work, today we finalised the list of use cases.
14:04:27 [ddavis]
yosuke: From today, we'll polish the use cases and extract requirements, then start a gap analysis.
14:05:18 [ddavis]
wuwei: I want to make sure we can implement the requirements for accessibility in this second round.
14:05:28 [ddavis]
wuwei: I'd like to join the discussion about accessibility.
14:06:08 [ddavis]
yosuke: Thank you very much. Meeting adjourned.
14:06:09 [Zakim]
-gmandyam
14:06:12 [Zakim]
-Bin_Hu
14:06:13 [Zakim]
-whyun
14:06:15 [Zakim]
-ddavis
14:06:16 [Zakim]
-yosuke
14:06:18 [Zakim]
-CyrilRa
14:06:22 [Zakim]
-wuwei
14:06:51 [ddavis]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:06:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-webtv-minutes.html ddavis
14:07:54 [Zakim]
-aldafu
14:07:55 [Zakim]
UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has ended
14:07:55 [Zakim]
Attendees were gmandyam, ddavis, aldafu, wuwei, +1.650.946.aabb, Bin_Hu, yosuke, CyrilRa, whyun
14:28:22 [jcverdie]
jcverdie has joined #webtv
15:00:49 [jcverdie]
jcverdie has joined #webtv
15:59:31 [glenn]
glenn has joined #webtv
16:11:04 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #webtv