14:59:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
14:59:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-pointerevents-irc
14:59:44 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
14:59:45 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
14:59:45 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0112.html
14:59:45 <ArtB> Chair: Art
14:59:45 <ArtB> Meeting: Pointer Events WG Voice Conference
14:59:50 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
14:59:53 <smaug> rbyers: please don't type here while driving ;)
14:59:55 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:59:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB
15:00:21 <rbyers> Heh luckily a coworker volunteered to drive :-)
15:00:37 <patrick_h_lauke> whoah, has uk number changed for w3c zakim?
15:00:59 <smaug> Zakim, where are you?
15:00:59 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, smaug.
15:01:04 <ArtB> zakim, who is here?
15:01:04 <Zakim> sorry, ArtB, I don't know what conference this is
15:01:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, patrick_h_lauke, smaug, ArtB, cwilso, scott_gonzalez, shepazu, mbrubeck__, dfreedm, slightlyoff, sangwhan, rbyers, trackbot
15:01:26 <ArtB> zakim, this is RWC_PEWG
15:01:27 <Zakim> ok, ArtB; that matches RWC_PEWG()11:00AM
15:01:34 <ArtB> zakim, who's here?
15:01:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.650.215.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, [IPcaller], +1.857.300.aabb
15:01:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, patrick_h_lauke, smaug, ArtB, cwilso, scott_gonzalez, shepazu, mbrubeck__, dfreedm, slightlyoff, sangwhan, rbyers, trackbot
15:01:54 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #pointerevents
15:01:55 <Zakim> + +44.797.663.aacc
15:01:55 <smaug> Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay
15:01:57 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
15:02:05 <rbyers> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:05 <Zakim> +rbyers; got it
15:02:05 <smaug> Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
15:02:06 <Zakim> ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
15:02:10 <ArtB> Present: Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Olli_Pettay, Rick_Byers, Doug_Schepers
15:02:25 <smaug> mbrubeck__: ping
15:02:26 <jrossi> jrossi has joined #pointerevents
15:02:31 <ArtB> Present+ Patrick_Lauke
15:02:35 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:02:52 <ArtB> present+ Asir_Vedamuthu
15:03:02 <patrick_h_lauke> zakim, aacc is patrick_h_lauke
15:03:02 <Zakim> +patrick_h_lauke; got it
15:03:08 <Zakim> +Cathy
15:03:21 <asir> asir has joined #pointerevents
15:03:36 <ArtB> Regrets: Sangwhan_Moon, Scott_González
15:03:44 <jrossi> calling...
15:03:56 <ArtB> Present+ Jacob_Rossi
15:04:02 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:04:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB
15:04:09 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:04:28 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
15:05:05 <ArtB> Topic: Tweak agenda
15:05:10 <ArtB> AB: I sent a draft agenda to the list yesterday <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0112.html>.
15:05:12 <rbyers> I'm on route to the airport, hope my cell quality is OK
15:05:12 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:05:27 <ArtB> AB: any objections to dropping editorial Bug 26094 and letting Patrick and Jacob take a crack at it <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26094>?
15:05:29 <jrossi> Zakim, Microsoft.a is jrossi
15:05:29 <Zakim> +jrossi; got it
15:05:34 <patrick_h_lauke> artb your voip client sounds clear to me
15:05:58 <ArtB> AB: any objections to dropping Bub 26094?
15:06:00 <ArtB> [None]
15:06:00 <patrick_h_lauke> 26094 is fairly trivial i'd say, if jrossi agrees
15:06:06 <ArtB> AB: any other change requests?
15:06:13 <ArtB> [None]
15:06:22 <ArtB> Topic: Bug 26013: Note in "10 Pointer Capture" to mention implicit pointer capture
15:06:29 <ArtB> AB: this bug was submitted by Patrick <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26013>. It started via the "gotpointercapture/lostpointercapture  on <button>s in IE" thread <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0087.html>.
15:06:48 <ArtB> AB: Patrick included a concrete proposal for a non-normative Note in <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0092.html>. I don't feel strongly either way (adding it or not) and the proposal doesn't seem harmful.
15:07:32 <ArtB> JR: if everyone is ok with the behavior
15:07:45 <jrossi> hang on
15:07:50 <rbyers> I heard Jaxob
15:07:57 <patrick_h_lauke> i can hear you
15:08:25 <ArtB> JR: if the IE behavior is ok or if other browers behave differently, then I'm ok with add it
15:08:38 <ArtB> AB: does anyone objet to Patrick's proposal?
15:08:40 <rbyers> No objection
15:08:45 <ArtB> [ None ]
15:09:02 <ArtB> AB: is the text ok as is Jacob?
15:09:16 <ArtB> JR: want to make one tweak to avoid RFC2119 keywords
15:09:21 <ArtB> … otherwise it is fine
15:09:31 <ArtB> PL: I've got no strong feelings either way
15:09:44 <ArtB> AB: sounds like we have agreement to add it
15:10:28 <ArtB> ACTION: Jacob re bug 26013, add Patrick's proposal and tweak the text as necessary
15:10:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-112 - Re bug 26013, add patrick's proposal and tweak the text as necessary [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-07-01].
15:10:38 <ArtB> Topic: Adding a note about the 300ms-ish delay to "9. Declaring candidate regions for default touch behaviors" ?
15:10:56 <ArtB> AB: Patrick started this thread <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0104.html>.
15:11:13 <ArtB> AB: no reply so far
15:11:19 <ArtB> JR: I don't want to add this to the spec
15:11:36 <ArtB> … the 300ms is because of certain gesture support
15:11:47 <ArtB> … I don't think our spec needs to document this
15:11:51 <rbyers> I agree with Jacob
15:11:54 <smaug> +1
15:11:58 <ArtB> RB: agree
15:12:00 <patrick_h_lauke> fine, be like that ;)
15:12:01 <ArtB> OP: agree
15:12:21 <ArtB> PL: no strong feelings
15:12:29 <ArtB> … think it would remove some surprise
15:12:41 <ArtB> … since it is defacto behavior in browsers
15:12:53 <ArtB> … but if consensus is to be silent, I can live with that
15:13:25 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: the group agrees not to add Patrick's "300ms-ish" proposal to the spec
15:13:38 <ArtB> Topic: News/summary from June 23 "Web input brainstorming face-to-face"
15:13:55 <ArtB> AB: who from PEWG attended?
15:14:04 <ArtB> JR: Rick, Matt and me
15:14:18 <ArtB> … others from Rick's team
15:14:29 <ArtB> … some have participated on the list
15:14:33 <ArtB> AB: any highlights from the June 23 Web input gathering?
15:14:41 <ArtB> … or do we wait for a report/summary?
15:15:01 <ArtB> RB: we talked about a lot of things
15:15:08 <ArtB> … including PE vs. TE debate
15:15:25 <ArtB> … growing consensus on Blink team
15:15:44 <ArtB> … I had some slides I'll share the URL later
15:15:54 <ArtB> … look at the speaker notes
15:16:06 <ArtB> … and we can followup when I have better connectivity than today
15:16:12 <jrossi> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qRqLKQjOnGgrM-UkMAb2RH6mQCFQHk8R01s5qvjm2Po/edit#slide=id.g355c5631f_145
15:16:20 <ArtB> … We have 3 issues that block us from implementing PE now
15:16:38 <ArtB> … we can't deprecate TE; we will have to support them forever
15:17:12 <ArtB> … there are some perf issues e.g. hit tests
15:17:37 <ArtB> … hard to build @MissedIt
15:17:50 <patrick_h_lauke> hard to build "pull to refresh" etc
15:18:19 <ArtB> s/@MissedIt/pull to refresh/
15:18:38 <ArtB> … Our priorities have shifted a lot in the last 6 mos and PE is problematic vis-a-vis those priorities
15:19:12 <ArtB> AB: Jacob, Matt, do you want to add anything?
15:19:30 <ArtB> JR: there were a lot of other great topics that we discussed
15:19:38 <ArtB> … and made good progress on them
15:20:03 <ArtB> … Expect to see some CSS related devlopments
15:20:13 <ArtB> … We'll share that with other goods
15:20:38 <ArtB> … Think it was successful and think we want to do it again (perhaps @ TPAC)
15:20:56 <ArtB> RB: we talked a lot about focusing on primitives
15:21:07 <ArtB> … we did find quite a bit of common ground
15:21:27 <ArtB> … and even if Bling doesn't support PE, there are other areas we can work on to get interop
15:21:32 <ArtB> s/Bling/Blink/
15:21:36 <rbyers> Zakim, who is noisy?
15:21:47 <Zakim> rbyers, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.857.300.aabb (4%), [Microsoft] (64%)
15:22:09 <jrossi> nope, just said "yes that's good"
15:22:19 <ArtB> JR: yes, that's good
15:22:21 <rbyers> Zakim, mute
15:22:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute', rbyers
15:22:30 <ArtB> AB: anything else on yesterday's meeting?
15:22:33 <rbyers> Zakim, mute [Microsoft]
15:22:33 <Zakim> [Microsoft] should now be muted
15:22:48 <rbyers> As or was that you?
15:22:51 <ArtB> AB: any specific followon actions for the PEWG group?
15:23:05 <ArtB> JR: no, don't think so for this group
15:23:13 <ArtB> … probably stuff for TE CG
15:23:35 <ArtB> … some CSS related developements
15:23:39 <shepazu> q+
15:24:44 <ArtB> JR: Apple is discussing touch-action in a WebKit bug
15:24:49 <patrick_h_lauke> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133112
15:25:01 <ArtB> … would be good to get touch-action in (Mobile) Safari
15:25:27 <rbyers> S/JR/RB
15:26:32 <ArtB> DS: re the TouchEvents errata and/or Edited REC, need to understand if the scope is small corrections or new features
15:26:43 <ArtB> RB: think it is mostly small corrections
15:26:53 <ArtB> … but too early to know if need larger changes
15:27:11 <ArtB> … so probably will need something beyond the errata
15:27:40 <ArtB> DS: Art, re small corrections, we can keep working on those in the TECG
15:27:58 <ArtB> … but if substantive, we will need a different structure
15:28:11 <ArtB> … wanted to know if that is your understanding
15:28:35 <ArtB> AB: yes, what Rick and you said Doug is consistent with my take of the potential changes
15:29:07 <ArtB> … new features will require a WG to publish them
15:29:27 <ArtB> JR: I'll submit proposal and then we can review it
15:29:41 <ArtB> DS: yes, please do
15:29:43 <jrossi> all implementations already behaved this way, i don't think it'd change someone's review. just a bug fix
15:29:47 <ArtB> … are your blocked Rick?
15:29:49 <jrossi> re: cancellability
15:29:54 <ArtB> RB: no, I am not
15:30:43 <ArtB> RB: my understanding is that the TECG can discuss TECG business in a PEWG call
15:30:52 <ArtB> DS: is anyone uncomfortable with that?
15:30:57 <ArtB> JR: that's OK
15:31:05 <ArtB> AB: that works for me
15:31:05 <patrick_h_lauke> only slight concern: not ALL CG participants are here as well
15:31:21 <ArtB> JR: if it gets into substantive discussions, we can have separate calls
15:31:24 <ArtB> RB: sounds good
15:31:33 <patrick_h_lauke> but as long as we share things on CG pages/wiki once things get moving...should be good
15:31:45 <ArtB> Topic: Testing
15:31:57 <ArtB> AB: Scott replied  to action-108 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0101.html>
15:32:35 <ArtB> AB: what's the status and what next?
15:33:03 <ArtB> JR: need a PR from Scott
15:33:18 <ArtB> … we are working on some PRs
15:33:20 <asir> can you unmute me?
15:33:47 <patrick_h_lauke> zakim, unmute [Microsoft]
15:33:47 <Zakim> [Microsoft] should no longer be muted
15:33:50 <ArtB> AB: here is my reply to Scott http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0106.html
15:34:08 <ArtB> AV: high level view ...
15:34:16 <ArtB> … there are ~66 TA in the wiki
15:34:33 <ArtB> … PR324 covered ~54 of the TAs
15:34:43 <ArtB> … thus we have 12 remaining TAs
15:34:58 <ArtB> … Scott's PRs cover another 9 TAs
15:35:19 <ArtB> … Jacob mentioned some PRs we will submit and they cover 2/3 of the missing
15:35:34 <ArtB> … Art had one PR and we are going to submit a PR to cover that
15:35:57 <ArtB> … If Scott would submit his PRs for reviews, that would be good
15:36:18 <ArtB> AB: you will create a PR for the test file I submitted, right?
15:36:22 <ArtB> AV: yes
15:36:37 <ArtB> … So the next step is for Scott to submit his PRs as soon as possible
15:36:46 <ArtB> AB: thanks for that summary
15:36:51 <patrick_h_lauke> zakim, mute [Microsoft]
15:36:51 <Zakim> [Microsoft] should now be muted
15:37:09 <asir> is matt on the call?
15:37:16 <ArtB> … Scotts' not here but he's good about reviewing minutes
15:37:30 <asir> please unmute me
15:37:40 <ArtB> Present+ Asir_Vedamuthu
15:37:52 <ArtB> AB: anything else on testing?
15:38:01 <smaug> yes
15:38:08 <smaug> s/yes//
15:38:14 <ArtB> Topic: CR implementation: status and updates
15:38:21 <ArtB> AB: any new news?
15:38:46 <ArtB> RB: touch-action is shipping in Chrome 36
15:38:55 <patrick_h_lauke> nice
15:39:39 <ArtB> AV: Matt's not here today; he mentioned the FF Metro implementation
15:39:50 <ArtB> … I think they are now 97% implementation
15:40:07 <ArtB> … have one bug to fix and that will get the impl to 100%
15:40:34 <jrossi> zakim, unmute Microsoft
15:40:34 <Zakim> [Microsoft] was not muted, jrossi
15:40:35 <ArtB> AB: thanks for the FF update
15:40:37 <ArtB> Topic: AoB
15:40:45 <ArtB> AB: anything else for today?
15:40:58 <ArtB> … we will have a call when we have a need for it
15:41:10 <ArtB> … main thing is for Scott to submit his PRs for review
15:41:30 <ArtB> … last call for topics?
15:41:36 <ArtB> … thanks everyone
15:41:38 <patrick_h_lauke> thank you
15:41:40 <ArtB> … Meeting adjourned
15:41:41 <Zakim> -rbyers
15:41:44 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
15:41:45 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:41:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB
15:41:45 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
15:41:48 <Zakim> -Cathy
15:41:54 <Zakim> -jrossi
15:41:55 <Zakim> - +1.857.300.aabb
15:42:05 <Zakim> -patrick_h_lauke
15:44:06 <patrick_h_lauke> philosophical question: i've been quite happily cheerleading for pointer events at conferences/workshops. wondering though if, in effect, this seems destined to remain an IE (and possibly FX) technology?
15:44:28 <patrick_h_lauke> i.e. Chrome's not interested in the foreseeable future but cherry-picking touch-action ?
15:45:05 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:45:06 <Zakim> RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended
15:45:06 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.650.215.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, +1.857.300.aabb, +44.797.663.aacc, Olli_Pettay, rbyers, [Microsoft], patrick_h_lauke, Cathy, jrossi
15:45:08 <ArtB> zakim, bye
15:45:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pointerevents
15:45:13 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
15:45:13 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:45:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jacob re bug 26013, add Patrick's proposal and tweak the text as necessary [1]
15:45:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-pointerevents-irc#T15-10-28