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11:47:27 <fsasaki> meeting: ITS IG
11:47:29 <fsasaki> chair: felix
11:47:35 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Jun/0010.html
11:47:53 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
11:47:57 <fsasaki> checking attendance
11:48:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
11:54:47 <Arle> Arle has joined #i18nits
11:55:28 <Arle> present+ Arle
11:56:10 <Arle> \msg fsasaki Felix, I may not be able to pay attention for the entire call due to some urgent deadlines. If I do not respond to something I need to, please send me a Skype ping. Sorry about that.
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11:59:38 <Renat> present+ Renat
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12:01:13 <Tatiana> Tatiana has joined #i18nits
12:01:30 <Tatiana> Good afternoon and greetings from Latvia! :)
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12:01:55 <Ankit> present+ Ankit
12:02:01 <Tatiana> Cannot dial in and join you via IRC
12:02:03 <Yves_> present+ Yves
12:02:08 <fsasaki> hi Tatiana, still waiting for the call to be started by the organizer
12:02:12 <fsasaki> present+ felix
12:02:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
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12:03:26 <dF> present+ dF
12:04:04 <fsasaki> present+ tatiana, dave
12:04:28 <Jirka> present+ Jirka
12:05:38 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Jun/0010.html
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12:06:00 <fsasaki> dave: Open Data Management for Public Automated Translation Services
12:06:27 <fsasaki> dave: felix, I and others were at the LREC conference two weeks ago
12:06:38 <fsasaki> .. there was a workshop about infrastructure in language technology
12:06:48 <fsasaki> .. some things were academic, but otheres more practical
12:07:27 <fsasaki> .. andrjes Vasilijevs and Hans Uszkoreit talked about what the EU is planning to do in terms of concrete services
12:07:35 <fsasaki> .. one service will be automated machine translation
12:07:58 <fsasaki> .. the MLI project is gathering technical requirements for machine translation services
12:08:38 <fsasaki> dave: I, felix and asun gomez perez talked to these guys after the workshop
12:08:54 <fsasaki> .. it seems that so far people have not looked at the data management side of things
12:09:00 <fsasaki> .. e.g. how to use open lexical resources
12:09:04 <fsasaki> .. and other items
12:09:11 <fsasaki> .. ITS does not have all solutions for this
12:09:25 <fsasaki> .. but some data categories can help, e.g. Terminology, Provenance, maybe even LQI
12:09:43 <fsasaki> .. I, Asun and Felix wrote a document
12:09:44 <fsasaki> .. https://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Open_Data_Management_for_Public_Automated_Translation_Services
12:09:52 <fsasaki> .. with high level requirements
12:10:10 <fsasaki> .. e.g. how to collect parallel texts, how to determin if the content has  been created by MT etc.
12:10:23 <fsasaki> .. e.g. one use case being annotation of parallel text with ITS metaata
12:10:29 <fsasaki> s/aata/data/
12:10:41 <fsasaki> .. we put this up on the ITS IG wiki to see if people have feedback
12:11:05 <fsasaki> ... and flesh out technical requirements, but also look into other groups like LD4LT and the LIDER project
12:11:19 <fsasaki> .. and then give that feedback to the MLI project
12:11:26 <fsasaki> .. any feedback so far?
12:11:36 <fsasaki> present+ serge
12:11:50 <fsasaki> serge: who is the driver of the MLI project?
12:12:43 <daveL> daveL has joined #i18nits
12:13:01 <daveL> present+ DaveLewis
12:13:11 <daveL> http://mli-project.eu/
12:13:19 <Serge> Serge has joined #i18nits
12:14:05 <fsasaki> dave: DCU is involved, coordinated by INMARK (based in SPAIN), various other companies and ELDA
12:14:31 <fsasaki> dave: they started just to get going, since the EU had not yet announced CEF broadly
12:14:46 <daveL> https://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Open_Data_Management_for_Public_Automated_Translation_Services
12:14:54 <fsasaki> [see partners list at http://mli-project.eu/?page_id=14 ]
12:15:18 <fsasaki> dave: there is a lot of expertise on the language technology side of things and how to run e.g. cloud services
12:15:28 <fsasaki> .. there is also a call out to look into interop and standards
12:15:42 <fsasaki> .. it seems to assume that the services will be provided by the EU MT service
12:16:08 <fsasaki> .. from an interop point of view it sounds like it may be operated by the MT@EU project
12:16:40 <fsasaki> .. from an interop point of view it sounds like a good opportunity to promote ITS, linked data things, TBX / TMX as well
12:16:42 <Tatiana> Sorry, was away from keyboard for a few minutes: about MLi
12:17:01 <Tatiana> At the end of June there is a deliverable to be submitted by MLi
12:17:47 <fsasaki> dave: andrejs Vasilijevs and Hans Uszkoreit said that the project is looking currently for input
12:18:13 <fsasaki> serge: it is critical to include the data component in this
12:18:43 <Tatiana> MLi deliverable in June will recommend on the pilot services
12:18:55 <fsasaki> serge: if the data component has been negleted we need to step in, make contributions
12:19:23 <Tatiana> I believe, there should be a tight collaboration between LIDER, MLi, and relevant initiatives within W3C
12:19:44 <daveL> +1
12:19:47 <fsasaki> +1
12:19:49 <Tatiana> Dave, yes, MLi now is gathering input from users
12:20:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
12:21:07 <daveL> https://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Open_Data_Management_for_Public_Automated_Translation_Services
12:21:44 <fsasaki> felix: we are making the dicussion here in public also to get broad input from people not directly involved in MLi
12:22:01 <Tatiana> Thank you for this link, I will forward it to my colleague who is directly involved in the MLi work
12:22:20 <Tatiana> His task is to collect user requirements
12:22:39 <daveL> tatiana, what date would be good to aim for to submit this as a contribution to MLi after gathering further input, e.g. from GALA
12:22:55 <fsasaki> serge: clear, we will contribute, and everybody should, see if things are missing etc.
12:24:54 <Tatiana> If it is OK with the ITS community, this doc might be shared with MLi (at Tilde, at least) and kept updating
12:25:17 <Tatiana> as soos as there is input from the ITS community
12:25:30 <fsasaki> tatiana, sure, that is also why we do this in public - also, see dave's question on the timeline for feedback
12:25:36 <fsasaki> christian: about the document you drafted
12:25:48 <Tatiana> In this way, both parties will be updated
12:25:54 <fsasaki> .. do you want to give that as a position statement of the ITS IG, or of the editors?
12:26:08 <fsasaki> .. that's a different aspect
12:26:17 <fsasaki> serge: good point - should be an ITS IG position
12:26:37 <fsasaki> christian: not necessarly - we need clarity - an IG position or compiled by members of the IG
12:26:51 <fsasaki> serge: there is a lot of discussion now about European language cloud
12:27:02 <fsasaki> .. if we imagine in the future the European language cloud
12:27:12 <fsasaki> .. that should be the data model for ITS, MQM, industrial implementations
12:27:20 <fsasaki> .. that should be coordinated
12:27:44 <fsasaki> .. otherwise we will get a zoo of tools and mess with the data
12:27:56 <fsasaki> dave: to answer christian:
12:28:10 <fsasaki> .. we put this up on the wiki, not proposing that this should be an ITS IG position statement
12:28:23 <fsasaki> .. happy to move that elsewhere if that is a conflict or out of scope
12:28:47 <fsasaki> .. the scope is broader than ITS, but I thought the ITS group is a good place to put it
12:28:59 <fsasaki> .. there is a lot of other people interested in this, also outside the ITS IG
12:29:17 <fsasaki> .. so if people want to contribute we can do that and e.g. add names of editors
12:29:27 <fsasaki> .. so would you feel happy to host the discussion here
12:29:58 <fsasaki> christian: for me this is the ITS IG
12:30:09 <fsasaki> .. ITS1.0 and 2.0 fit well with automated translation services
12:30:24 <fsasaki> .. so discussions related to automated translation services should be mentioned here as well
12:30:34 <fsasaki> .. so bringing this into the group and discussing it here is great
12:32:41 <fsasaki> discussion on where this should be discussed - ITS IG seems to be a good open forum for this
12:34:06 <fsasaki> christian: if we want to have an official ITS IG statement - what would be the procedure ?
12:34:35 <fsasaki> felix: for interest groups there are no formal voting procedures
12:34:58 <fsasaki> david: if the IG wants to make collective statements the note has to go through the process
12:36:25 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/
12:36:49 <fsasaki> www.w3.org/TR/
12:38:15 <fsasaki> felix explaining the concept of a W3C note
12:38:18 <fsasaki> serge: this group is very active and elaborate, working on ITS etc.
12:38:39 <fsasaki> .. if we formulate general terms - how do we see as a group the proper implementation of a language cloud, and publish this as a note
12:39:44 <fsasaki> felix: a bit afraid that the time is not sufficient to discuss and publish a note
12:40:22 <fsasaki> christian: would be helpful to have a more focused link
12:40:36 <fsasaki> .. I see link to MLi project page - but where to find background info that is in the doc
12:41:00 <fsasaki> .. is there such a targeted link, or are there workshop notes?
12:41:16 <fsasaki> dave: we can get Andrjes MLi notes, which were fairly general
12:41:35 <fsasaki> .. there is EU information - I can dig out a link about the current call from the EU for feedback
12:43:08 <fsasaki> action: daveL to find out what the timeline is for giving feedback (and felix too) to check if ITS IG would have time to produce an official W3C note
12:43:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Find out what the timeline is for giving feedback (and felix too) to check if its ig would have time to produce an official w3c note [on David Lewis - due 2014-06-18].
12:43:23 <fsasaki> christian: CEF is a funding scheme from the EU
12:43:47 <fsasaki> .. they will ask to create several infrastructues, one is related to public automated translation services
12:44:02 <fsasaki> .. so you suggest to give some input of baseline requirements
12:44:18 <fsasaki> dave: broadly, though I am not sure it will be a public procurement process
12:44:41 <fsasaki> .. the preparatory call says: the expection says that the MT@EU will be the basis
12:44:55 <fsasaki> .. it won't necessarily a fully public tender
12:44:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
12:48:32 <fsasaki> felix: will schedule another call next week so that we can continue this and other topics
12:48:42 <fsasaki> topic: CSS attribute selectors
12:48:49 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Jun/0001.html
12:48:58 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-nonelement-1/
12:50:49 <fsasaki> jirka: is there an implementation already using CSS selectors?
12:51:35 <fsasaki> felix: I am aware of bluegriffon IIRC, but that development is not moving forward it seems
12:51:46 <fsasaki> jirka: the motivation of the draft is to use CSS selectors with ITS
12:51:52 <fsasaki> .. so it needs some implementations
12:52:10 <fsasaki> .. don't remember who originally proposed this, e.g. some implementation or a general comment
12:53:01 <fsasaki> action: felix to check with Cocomore if they would be interested in implementing the CSS attribute selector
12:53:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Check with cocomore if they would be interested in implementing the css attribute selector [on Felix Sasaki - due 2014-06-18].
12:53:22 <Arle> Sorry, I need to go. Speak to you all later.
12:53:43 <fsasaki> felix: may also be interesting for Logrus
12:54:35 <fsasaki> felix: no timeline for the draft - without implementations it just will not move forward?
12:54:37 <fsasaki> jirka: right
12:54:51 <fsasaki> .. they won't stop us from working on this due to some deadlines
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12:55:19 <fsasaki> topic: Review of FEISGILTT outcomes
12:55:33 <fsasaki> http://www.localizationworld.com/lwdub2014/feisgiltt/Program.pdf
12:55:40 <fsasaki> david: we had a good working event
12:55:49 <fsasaki> .. there will be proceedings published via localization focus issue
12:55:57 <fsasaki> .. deadline is end of July for camera ready papers
12:56:05 <fsasaki> .. there was interesting discussions
12:56:19 <fsasaki> .. there was XLIFF symposium and linked data track
12:56:31 <fsasaki> .. most interesting thing was requirement gathering
12:56:42 <fsasaki> .. e.g. doing object model + json serialization for XLIFF
12:57:10 <fsasaki> .. that was nicely aligned with requirements on future of ITS that was discussed in Marid, MLW WS
12:57:24 <fsasaki> .. we also discussed ITS mapping into XLIFF
12:57:40 <fsasaki> .. there was some discussion of XLIFF module dependencies
12:57:57 <fsasaki> .. ITS support can be in several modules, since the support will be in several categories
12:57:59 <Tatiana> Have to leave already, sorry! Talk to you later and looking forward to reading the minutes. Bye! :)
12:59:00 <fsasaki> .. once the have ITS on the XLIFF TC agenda we can discuss details
12:59:24 <fsasaki> felix: we can discuss this next week again if that makes sense
13:00:09 <fsasaki> david: about the linked data topic:
13:00:26 <fsasaki> .. several people said that licensing of linked data is an important topic is important
13:00:44 <fsasaki> dave: also, several people said not so much publishing of linked data but modeling with linked data is important
13:00:55 <fsasaki> .. as we discussed via mail with Arle about MQM mappings
13:01:24 <fsasaki> .. RDF modeling works well to build broad consensus and have specializations in sub classes etc.
13:01:42 <fsasaki> .. need to move forward with people who don't have much experience with writing ontologies
13:01:50 <fsasaki> .. other important point is API discussion
13:02:01 <fsasaki> .. also looking into JSON-LD for the payload
13:02:14 <fsasaki> .. that relates to XLIFF / API discussion as well
13:02:36 <fsasaki> .. people said: a data model is great - but to use it you will need an API as well
13:02:44 <fsasaki> .. for different use cases, like in HTML5
13:03:01 <fsasaki> david: people from XLIFF community got really interested in linked data agenda
13:03:04 <fsasaki> .. which was good
13:03:22 <fsasaki> .. was successful in bringing together the two communities and detecting themes and topics
13:03:31 <fsasaki> dave: discussion and feedback went really well
13:03:40 <fsasaki> .. me and felix are writing up some notes on this as well
13:04:23 <fsasaki> topic: aob
13:04:58 <fsasaki> will have another call next week, same time, to discuss at least three topics: ITS/MQM, Open Data Management for Public Automated Translation Services, and ITS/XLIFF
13:05:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
13:05:30 <fsasaki> present- DaveLewis
13:05:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
13:05:56 <fsasaki> present+ christian
13:05:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
13:27:41 <fsasaki> rrsagent, bye
13:27:41 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-actions.rdf :
13:27:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: daveL to find out what the timeline is for giving feedback (and felix too) to check if ITS IG would have time to produce an official W3C note [1]
13:27:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-irc#T12-43-08
13:27:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to check with Cocomore if they would be interested in implementing the CSS attribute selector [2]
13:27:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-i18nits-irc#T12-53-01