15:00:06 RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents 15:00:06 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-irc 15:00:17 ScribeNick: ArtB 15:00:17 Scribe: Art 15:00:27 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0063.html 15:00:35 Chair: Art 15:00:36 Meeting: Pointer Events WG Voice Conference 15:00:44 RRSAgent, make log Public 15:00:50 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:00:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB 15:01:11 RRSAgent, make log Public 15:01:26 +[Microsoft] 15:01:53 +[Microsoft.a] 15:01:53 Zakim, Microsoft is jrossi 15:01:53 +jrossi; got it 15:02:03 +Cathy 15:02:11 Zakim, you're a bit slow today 15:02:11 I don't understand 'you're a bit slow today', smaug 15:02:19 and unstable 15:02:47 +[IPcaller] 15:03:08 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay 15:03:08 +rbyers 15:03:08 +Olli_Pettay; got it 15:03:26 Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay 15:03:26 ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay 15:04:34 Present: Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Rick_Byers, Scott_González, Jacob_Rossi, Asir_Vedamuthu, Olli_Pettay 15:04:41 Regrets: Sangwhan_Moon, Patrick_Lauke 15:04:46 Topic: Tweak agenda 15:04:51 AB: since I submitted the draft agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0063.html, a couple of topics appear to be have resolved themselves and thus we can drop them. 15:04:56 AB: any objections to dropping the "high-frequency mouse/touch" topic as proposed by Rick? 15:05:06 [ None ] 15:05:11 AB: any objections to dropping Bug 25758 (change width and height to double) as proposed by Jacob? 15:05:37 asir has joined #pointerevents 15:05:56 JR: I think we should talk about that bug 15:05:58 AB: ok 15:06:14 AB: during the AoB section I would like to briefly confirm the group's Plan of Record (PoR) aka The End Game. Any objections to that? 15:06:45 [ None ] 15:06:54 AB: during the AoB section, I would like to add a short process-related topic on the use of HG by the Touch Events CG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Jun/0000.html. Any objections to adding that? 15:07:24 JR: no, that's ok 15:07:37 … want to add something else about a potential f2f meeting 15:07:44 AB: ok, we'll add that too 15:07:52 AB: any other change requests? 15:08:08 Topic: Bug 25758: Change PointerEvent width and height to double 15:08:16 AB: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0053.html. 15:08:16 Discussion 15:08:16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014AprJun/0051.html. 15:09:05 RB: I think JR just wanted to see if anyone had any comments 15:09:23 JR: I thought adding tilt would be good but don't think so now 15:09:33 … we could always take that up later if needed 15:09:47 … I am talking to send some pen based companies 15:09:56 RB: you missed one thing on the constructor 15:10:00 action: jacob to update pointerInit constructor 15:10:01 Created ACTION-107 - Update pointerinit constructor [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-06-10]. 15:10:29 Topic: Testing 15:10:50 AB: First up is PR 324 https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/324/, f.ex. the status and merging. I think there is a proposal to merge now and then "pick up the pieces". Basically, what is the plan to complete the test suite. 15:11:02 AB: then how to handle additional PRs; who is going to do what; ... 15:11:48 JR: can we get consensus to merge PR324? 15:12:03 … then we can stage additional tests 15:12:20 … can't really work on other PRs until 324 is merged 15:12:30 … I would prefer to land 324 15:12:44 AV: all of the feedback is now on the PR 15:12:52 … feedback has been addressed 15:13:10 … we have other PRs but they depend on 324 thus it is now critical path for other work 15:13:25 … There are some other test cases that require 324 to land 15:13:39 … We can address any issues with 324 as new PRs 15:13:51 AB: anyone object to merging 324 as is? 15:13:57 RB: sounds good to me 15:14:01 Thank you Rick! 15:14:07 AB: ok, then we have a resolution 15:14:20 RESOLUTION: group agrees to merge PR324 as is 15:14:35 AV: please submit other PRs as soon as possible 15:14:39 JR: we have 2 more 15:14:46 AV: I think it's more like 3-4 15:14:56 JR: but they are smaller than 324 15:15:11 … think Scott wants to combine some tests 15:15:19 SG: there are TTWF tests 15:15:26 … need to look for overlaps 15:15:35 … so we don't get dups 15:16:01 … Might want fewer test files 15:16:15 JR: need a queue/list of things we need to test 15:16:22 … think we are mostly done 15:16:30 … only a few more things to test 15:16:41 AV: Scott, what are you going to contribute? 15:17:18 AB: perhaps Scott can reply to the list 15:17:49 ACTION: Scott send a todo list re testing that needs to be done 15:17:50 Created ACTION-108 - Send a todo list re testing that needs to be done [on Scott González - due 2014-06-10]. 15:18:24 SG: yes, that's fine. I need to talk to DaveM. 15:18:27 AB: sounds good 15:19:00 ACTION: Jacob run the merge for PR324 15:19:01 Created ACTION-109 - Run the merge for pr324 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-06-10]. 15:19:12 AV: the other tests pending are mostly touch-action related 15:19:19 AB: excellent 15:19:40 AV: is anyone else planning to submit tests? 15:19:44 AB: not me 15:19:47 CC: no 15:20:18 RB: no, although I'll review the touch-action tests 15:20:26 … I assume they will cover what we want 15:20:40 AV: we used your prior input Rick when we created the tests 15:20:44 RB: great 15:20:58 Topic: CR implementation status 15:21:13 AB: can we please do a quick round robin re the status of Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera 15:22:13 RB: we have been reaching out to web sites 15:22:23 … expect touch-action on for chrome 36 15:23:08 JR: I need to do some more reach out 15:23:32 RB: nice to see this cooperation on touch-action 15:23:48 -rbyers 15:24:11 +rbyers 15:24:38 :-) 15:24:44 go ahead without me, be back shortly 15:24:47 -rbyers 15:25:10 OP: some patches are landing 15:25:26 … original plan was Metro but plan now is Android 15:25:36 … not sure how many releases before PE is enabled 15:25:43 … we do have most of the code landed 15:25:49 +??P33 15:26:11 s/Android/Android and other platforms/ 15:26:41 Zakim, P33 is me 15:26:41 sorry, rbyers, I do not recognize a party named 'P33' 15:26:46 Zakim, ??P33 is me 15:26:46 +rbyers; got it 15:27:01 JR: not much new to report; we have some bugs but they are minor 15:27:19 … I don't think we have any bugs that cause interop probs 15:27:34 RB: re touch-action hit testing and matching Blink with IE 15:27:46 … I have gotten some pushback re complexibility 15:28:00 … there is a relevant non-norm note in the spec 15:28:23 … Is anyone else interested in precices hit testing text in the spec? 15:28:36 … The hit test is done on the bound of the element 15:28:48 … If inline and exceeds bounds of its parent 15:28:56 [ JR reads the specific text ] 15:29:07 JR: I think we have some test cases for that 15:29:20 … I don't think this is going to be a big interop issue 15:29:31 RB: perhaps we should change note to MAY? 15:29:41 … elsewhere we say hit testing is out of scope 15:29:49 JR: true; perhaps it isn't needed 15:30:10 … I don't like using 2119 words in Notes 15:30:26 RB: Elliott and Adam convinced me we should change our impl 15:30:47 … we're doing two hit tests now and want to do as few hit tests as possible 15:30:58 JR: are you replicating hit testing off thread? 15:31:12 RB: it's off thread now 15:31:22 … for compat need sites to opt in 15:31:40 … all hit testing is main thread 15:32:35 [ some details of IE and Blink hit testing missing ] 15:32:47 JR: I'm ok with removing that note 15:33:06 AB: I don't have anything to add 15:33:18 OP: I don't recall what Gecko does here 15:33:59 AB: so, create an Action for Jacob to remove the note; anyone that objects can do so on the list 15:34:10 Context from blink side here: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/input-dev/En4Jr3ZunRw 15:34:47 A couple minor corrections: we currently do touch-action hit testing only main thread (and would like to collapse this special touch-action hit test into the normal one we're already doing). 15:35:21 ACTION: jacob remove the hit testing note (bounding box) per agreement on 2-June-2014 15:35:21 Created ACTION-110 - Remove the hit testing note (bounding box) per agreement on 2-june-2014 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-06-10]. 15:35:24 we do other hit-testing off-thread, but fall back to main thread if we can't be sure 15:35:49 Topic: Plan of Record (PoR) to get Pointer Events to REC 15:35:58 AB: just wanted to reiterate our plan to get Pointer Events spec to Recommendation. The basic plan we previously agreed is: 15:36:08 ... Complete test suite; 15:36:08 ... Do the interop testing; (if necessary, fix bugs and repeat) 15:36:08 ... Create Implementation Report (IR) 15:36:24 ... After we have 2 more implementations that pass each test, publish a Last Call WD with a link to the test suite and IR; include a clear note that in the absence of any major issues raised during the 3-week LC comment period, since we already have proven interoperability, we intend to skip Candidate Recommendation and the next publication will be Proposed Recommendation 15:37:09 Zakim, who is noisy? 15:37:19 JR: sounds right to me 15:37:19 rbyers, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Art_Barstow (21%), jrossi (24%), [Microsoft.a] (43%) 15:37:23 AV: yes, sounds right 15:37:24 sounds ok 15:37:24 sounds good 15:37:41 sounds good 15:37:57 Zakim, who is noisy? 15:38:09 rbyers, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Art_Barstow (70%), jrossi (20%), [Microsoft.a] (10%) 15:38:20 AV: when is the right time to update references? 15:38:35 AB: which references are you concerned about? 15:38:46 AV: HTML spec is one 15:38:56 … need to update a few 15:39:04 AB: we should update refs right before LC 15:39:27 … I think we're going to be ok 15:39:41 Topic: Touch Events CG and use of HG 15:39:47 AB: I believe everyone in the Touch Events CG should now have write access to https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents. As such, I will reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Jun/0000.html the issue is resolved. 15:40:26 AB: did anyone else try? 15:40:31 JR: I didn't 15:40:57 RB: MikeSmith gave permissions to everyone in the CG 15:41:20 Topic: A Potential F2F Meeting 15:41:35 JR: Rick and I have been talking about some various problems 15:41:45 … not necessarily touch or pointer events specific 15:41:53 … We are planing to get together 15:42:00 … where we is Blink and IE 15:42:14 … we are meeting for some brain storming on June 23 15:42:30 Yes, please ask mbrubeck__ to join the meeting 15:42:37 … expect that any proposals would be brought back to the appropriate group 15:42:42 Brainstorming notes here: https://docs.google.com/a/chromium.org/document/d/1C6P3Mhza1jdMJyP9G6fr7n7zcXrCmwih1o2xohFVEhc/edit 15:43:00 RB: this doc includes potential topics 15:43:12 … people should feel free to add topics 15:43:19 … interested in priorities and other items 15:43:34 … Sorry this is last minute 15:44:10 … Some of us are going to be in CA that week so we are going to go to Seattle to meet with Jacob and his team 15:45:30 AB: it's good to meet 15:45:42 … have you thought about announcing the meeting 15:45:58 RB: we just agreed to meet yesterday 15:46:15 … we can announce on the lists and ask people to contact us if they want to join 15:46:43 AB: please do announce 15:46:53 … Matt might be able to join since he lives in Seattle 15:47:30 JR: we might be able to use this meeting to help us understand what we want to do with respect to formal standardization 15:47:59 RB: we have a lot of items for potential work and need to discuss priorities 15:48:07 AB: ok, thanks the headsup 15:48:34 … can I get one of you to agree to send some hightlights and summary to the PEWG and TECG lists? 15:48:39 RB: yes, I'll do that 15:48:45 FYI - I've removed the touch-action hit testing note: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/rev/5b06a2e374b7 15:49:15 ACTION: rick send summary/highlights of Seattle meeting to the PEWG and TECG lists 15:49:15 Created ACTION-111 - Send summary/highlights of seattle meeting to the pewg and tecg lists [on Rick Byers - due 2014-06-10]. 15:49:25 Topic: AoB 15:49:31 AB: no call on June 10 15:49:38 AB: please continue to address open actions, open bugs, etc. 15:49:47 AB: anything else? 15:49:53 AB: meeting adjourned 15:50:43 JR: one bug I fixed 24923 yesterday - please review and submit feedback 15:51:07 -Art_Barstow 15:51:09 -Olli_Pettay 15:51:12 -Cathy 15:51:13 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:51:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB 15:51:14 -rbyers 15:51:16 -jrossi 15:51:18 -Scott_Gonzalez 15:51:28 -[Microsoft.a] 15:51:30 RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended 15:51:30 Attendees were Scott_Gonzalez, Art_Barstow, jrossi, Cathy, rbyers, Olli_Pettay 16:04:27 Oops, sorry for the unplanned absence. :( 16:05:58 mbrubeck, np - please do see the minutes, especially about a meeting/gathering in Seattle June 23 16:06:08 re touch events, pointer events 16:06:13 great! 16:06:22 Jacob and Rick are putting something together 16:06:34 be there or be talked about ;-) 16:07:07 notify them if you can make it https://docs.google.com/a/chromium.org/document/d/1C6P3Mhza1jdMJyP9G6fr7n7zcXrCmwih1o2xohFVEhc/edit 16:10:58 zakim, bye 16:10:58 Zakim has left #pointerevents 16:11:02 rrsagent, bye 16:11:02 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-actions.rdf : 16:11:02 ACTION: jacob to update pointerInit constructor [1] 16:11:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-irc#T15-10-00 16:11:02 ACTION: Scott send a todo list re testing that needs to be done [2] 16:11:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-irc#T15-17-49 16:11:02 ACTION: Jacob run the merge for PR324 [3] 16:11:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-irc#T15-19-00 16:11:02 ACTION: jacob remove the hit testing note (bounding box) per agreement on 2-June-2014 [4] 16:11:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-irc#T15-35-21 16:11:02 ACTION: rick send summary/highlights of Seattle meeting to the PEWG and TECG lists [5] 16:11:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-pointerevents-irc#T15-49-15