18:59:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:59:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-aapi-irc
18:59:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
18:59:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:59:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:59:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:59:24 <trackbot> Date: 03 June 2014
18:59:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)1:00PM already started
18:59:53 <clown> RRSAgent: make log public
19:01:29 <clown> zakim, who's here?
19:01:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see MarkS, Joseph_O´Conno, [IPcaller]
19:01:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, clown, MichaelC, joanie, trackbot
19:01:46 <clown> zakim, which conference is this?
19:01:46 <Zakim> this is WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)1:00PM conference code 2119
19:02:01 <clown> zakim, this is WAI_PFWG(AAPI)
19:02:01 <Zakim> clown, this was WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)1:00PM
19:02:02 <Zakim> ok, clown; that matches WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM
19:02:22 <clown> zakim, who's here?
19:02:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joanmarie_Diggs, [GVoice]
19:02:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, clown, MichaelC, joanie, trackbot
19:02:34 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:34 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:03:07 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
19:03:14 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:14 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:38 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:03:38 <clown> agenda: this
19:03:44 <clown> agenda+ News: Heart beat publication aiming for Jun 12.
19:03:51 <clown> agenda+ ATK/AT-SPI new role mappings for 1.1 (Joseph, Joanie).
19:03:58 <clown> agenda+ Address html5.1 mappings in this meeting.
19:04:06 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): IE and single selection container when item becomes unselected.
19:04:12 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1409 (Joanie):  Monitor progress of new position/level API.
19:04:13 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
19:04:14 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
19:04:19 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1419 (Joanie):  Validity of aria-pressed="mixed".
19:04:27 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1445/ISSUE-661 (Cynthia):  UIA mapping of presentational children.
19:04:37 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1444/ISSUE-661 (Joanie): ATK/AT-SPI mapping of presentational children.
19:04:48 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1446 (Joseph): Fix mappings for role option and aria-checked agenda+ be done.
19:04:57 <clown> agenda:  be done.
19:08:17 <janina> janina has joined #aapi
19:08:59 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:09:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:11:05 <joanie> Scribenick: joanie
19:11:28 <joanie> regrets: David_Bolter
19:12:19 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:12:19 <Zakim> agendum 1. "News: Heart beat publication aiming for Jun 12." taken up [from clown]
19:12:43 <joanie> JS: Yesterday's PF meeting we discussed the next heart beat
19:13:06 <joanie> JS: Any and all edits have to be done by this Friday.
19:13:22 <joanie> JS: I guess the process is Michael takes the documents to someone and asks if we can publish them.
19:13:34 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:13:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ATK/AT-SPI new role mappings for 1.1 (Joseph, Joanie)." taken up [from clown]
19:13:45 <joanie> JS: Mostly informative for Joanie.
19:14:01 <joanie> JS: Prior to releasing ARIA 1.0, we got a list of changes from GNOME Accessibility.
19:14:16 <joanie> JS: Given the timeframe, we couldn't make these changes without significant delays.
19:14:29 <joanie> JS: GNOME gave a "go ahead" provided we make the changes as soon as possible.
19:14:42 <joanie> JS: I think this heart beat is this "as soon as possible" time.
19:14:59 <joanie> JS: I made 13 changes to the role mapping table that matched the requests from GNOME Accessibility.
19:15:13 <joanie> JS: There were a couple that I wanted to touch base with Joanie about.
19:16:11 <clown> scribenick: clown
19:16:55 <clown> JS:  One change I have not done is for role="article".  That is currently mapped to ROLE_DOCUMENT_FRAME, but should be ROLE_ARTICLE.
19:17:08 <clown> JS:  I think I can go ahead an make that change.
19:17:53 <clown> JD:  The short answer is yes.
19:19:01 <clown> JD:  It was introduced in verssion 2.12
19:19:39 <clown> https://developer.gnome.org/atk/2.10/
19:19:41 <janina> We should have all the substantive AT-SPI edits, even if that means a little delay
19:20:00 <clown> JS:  Currently our references section points to ATK 2.10
19:20:34 <clown> JS:  A problem is that reference is put in via biblio, not us.
19:20:42 <clown> JS:  I'll have to look to see how to reference 2.12.
19:20:56 <joanie> https://developer.gnome.org/atk/stable/AtkObject.html
19:21:30 <clown> JD:  You can specifiy stable, or a specific version.
19:21:30 <janina> I think there's also a version specific URI?
19:21:42 <joanie> https://developer.gnome.org/atk/stable
19:21:47 <clown> JS:  Right now, all one does in the documents is [ATK].
19:22:08 <clown> JS:  and that produces a references to ATK 2.10
19:22:23 <clown> JS:  Do I do:  [ATK2.12]?
19:22:31 <clown> JS: I guess I experiement.
19:22:41 <clown> s/experiement/experiment/
19:22:59 <joanie> scribenick: joanie
19:23:45 <joanie> JD: Is there a way to change the link pointed to by [ATK] to reference 'stable' in the URL rather than the particular version, e.g. '2.10'?
19:24:16 <joanie> JD: Making this change would solve things long term, and with GNOME on a six-month release cycle this change might be helpful.
19:25:12 <joanie> JS: Chances are we'll be behind as we're not on a six-month release cycle
19:26:02 <joanie> JS: I'll see if I can do this.
19:26:12 <joanie> JS: The reference section comes "for free".
19:26:17 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:26:34 <joanie> JS: The other question is a change to aria-checked.
19:26:49 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:26:54 <joanie> JS: You (Joanie) want to expose ATK_STATE_CHECKABLE
19:27:04 <joanie> JS: That's ok in and of itself.
19:27:19 <joanie> JS: But there are other changes that would need to be made.
19:27:29 <joanie> JS: The other changes were one-liners.
19:27:37 <joanie> JS: aria-checked is in six different places.
19:27:44 <joanie> JS: It's going to take some time. But I'll try.
19:27:49 <joanie> JD: Ok, thanks.
19:28:42 <joanie> JD: Were those the only two?
19:28:56 <joanie> JS: There's another issue with checkable.
19:29:02 <clown> http://localhost/~clown/GitHub/aria/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_role_table
19:29:15 <joanie> JS: That's the closest I can get. Scroll down to menu item.
19:29:46 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html
19:30:43 <clown> In the role mapping table for role="menuitem", for ATK it says:  If aria-checked is not undefined, support object attribute checkable:true
19:32:06 <joanie> JS: I want to remove the above as aria-checked doesn't apply to menuitem.
19:32:11 <joanie> JD: Fine with me.
19:32:45 <joanie> JS: Then I will make the state changes to the other two (menuitemradio and menuitemcheckbox).
19:36:10 <joanie> (Group discusses if listboxes can contain checkable items independent of multiselect)
19:37:06 <joanie> JS: In ARIA 1.1, we changed the taxonomy so that options no longer support being checked.
19:37:16 <joanie> JS: This was when I was on vacation.
19:37:31 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#option
19:37:47 <joanie> JD: If there is UI where this is possible (and from the discussion that seems to be the case), was it a mistake to make this change in 1.1?
19:38:19 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#option
19:39:11 <joanie> JS: You saw an example of checkable listbox items in Swing.
19:39:21 <joanie> s/You saw/I saw/
19:39:45 <bgaraventa1979> I've seen the same in dc++
19:41:07 <bgaraventa1979> http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net/
19:42:20 <joanie> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/stuff/html/select-multiple-checkbox-list/
19:42:40 <joanie> http://www.1stwebdesigns.com/blog/development/multiple-select-with-checkboxes-and-jquery
19:44:19 <joanie> JS: This topic was off the agenda, actually.
19:44:45 <joanie> JD: But should we re-raise the above examples to the TF?
19:45:22 <joanie> JS: The two you (joanie) came up with, the checkbox just shows that they are selected.
19:45:53 <joanie> BG: The scenario that is important to bring up is a list box of options and checking it changes the value of the option.
19:46:41 <joanie> JD: Is the consensus that we need to do more investigation?
19:46:49 <joanie> JS: I think so. But I cannot do it this week.
19:47:39 <joanie> ACTION: joanie to investigate whether or not listbox selection can really be independent of checkbox state. Due 10 June.
19:47:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1448 - Investigate whether or not listbox selection can really be independent of checkbox state. due 10 june. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-06-10].
19:49:12 <joanie> JS: We decided that we are no longer using tracker, but are supposed to log issues in bugzilla instead.
19:49:16 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:49:16 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Address html5.1 mappings in this meeting." taken up [from clown]
19:49:46 <joanie> JS: The PF group wants us to consider adding to our task list the HTML 5 mappings to accessibility APIs.
19:49:54 <joanie> JS: There will be another document.
19:50:02 <joanie> JS: The editor of that document is Jason Kiss.
19:50:15 <joanie> JS: He will join us for the meetings in which we discuss this.
19:50:22 <joanie> JS: Are we willing to take on this work here?
19:50:45 <joanie> CS: Who else is going to do it?
19:50:50 <joanie> JD: I can for ATK
19:50:59 <joanie> CS: I think we should.
19:51:13 <joanie> CS: As far as writing down what should go where.
19:52:00 <joanie> JS: There's already a document out there that does it for all of the tags.
19:52:07 <joanie> JS: And in some cases the attributes.
19:52:19 <joanie> JS: But it had been doing it in the HTML working group.
19:52:29 <joanie> CS: But it hasn't been edited in two years.
19:52:42 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/html-api-map/master/index.html
19:52:53 <joanie> CS: I am no longer going to be an editor.
19:53:10 <joanie> CS: Jason may have done something in the last few weeks.
19:53:37 <joanie> JS: Any thoughts on how we're going to do it?
19:53:48 <joanie> JS: Do we just add it to our list of actions?
19:53:59 <joanie> JS: Or do we do it every other week, or....?
19:54:03 <joanie> BG: No idea.
19:54:13 <joanie> CS: I think we could add it every other week to start with.
19:54:49 <joanie> JS: Janina stated that our meeting time would work for Jason.
19:55:33 <joanie> JS: It is now 08:00(ish) in New Zealand.
19:56:09 <joanie> JS: I will go back to the PF group and tell them yes we are willing to do this.
19:56:16 <joanie> JS: And working out the next steps.
19:56:27 <joanie> JS: I don't think we want to do this until after the heartbeat.
19:56:31 <joanie> CS: That makes sense.
19:58:00 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:58:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): IE and single selection container when item becomes unselected." taken up [from clown]
19:58:05 <clown> action-1371?
19:58:05 <trackbot> action-1371 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate what ie does for single selection container when item becomes unselected, and create a test case (issue-618). -- due 2014-05-29 -- OPEN
19:58:05 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1371
19:58:57 <joanie> CS: Give me another week.
19:59:07 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:59:07 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1409 (Joanie):  Monitor progress of new position/level API." taken up [from clown]
19:59:23 <clown> action-1409?
19:59:23 <trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2014-04-15 -- OPEN
19:59:23 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
19:59:50 <joanie> JD: This is still in progress. It's stalled on the GNOME side.
20:00:40 <clown> action-1441?
20:00:40 <trackbot> action-1441 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check how far back queryselector goes in ie -- due 2014-05-26 -- CLOSED
20:00:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1441
20:00:46 <clown> action-1444?
20:00:46 <trackbot> action-1444 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate the ideal atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2014-06-03 -- OPEN
20:00:46 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444
20:01:09 <joanie> JD: As far as I'm concerned, I am done.
20:01:26 <joanie> JS: I guess we should leave it open until the implementors tell us what they are going to do.
20:01:59 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:02:24 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
20:04:04 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
20:04:05 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:04:06 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended
20:04:06 <Zakim> Attendees were Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, [Microsoft]
20:04:15 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:04:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:04:23 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop
20:08:41 <joanie> present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly
20:08:45 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop