IRC log of tt on 2014-05-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:44 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:56:46 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:56:46 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:49 [trackbot]
Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:56:49 [trackbot]
Date: 29 May 2014
14:00:37 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were
14:01:11 [pal]
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14:01:17 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:01:23 [Zakim]
14:02:29 [mike]
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14:03:03 [nigel]
chair: nigel
14:03:05 [Zakim]
14:03:58 [nigel]
Present: pal, mike, nigel
14:05:59 [Zakim]
14:05:59 [jdsmith]
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14:06:08 [nigel]
Present+ jdsmith
14:08:50 [nigel]
scribeNick: nigel
14:09:09 [nigel]
Regrets: Frans de Jong
14:13:32 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC Issues raised
14:14:25 [pal]
14:14:30 [nigel]
ack pal
14:15:23 [nigel]
14:15:23 [trackbot]
issue-320 -- Is normative SMPTE 2052 reference okay? -- raised
14:15:23 [trackbot]
14:19:20 [nigel]
nigel: 3 main concerns: licensing, quality of specification and structural references.
14:19:44 [nigel]
pal: SMPTE has requested that we add backgroundImage to TTML2 so we can move to that definition in IMSC2
14:20:57 [nigel]
nigel: We can define backgroundImage in IMSC1 and then port it into TTML2 and make the namespace change now rather than in IMSC2.
14:22:09 [nigel]
pal: Rather than guessing what the TTML2 solution will be now we would be able to move more quickly if we reference the SMPTE-TT definition and then update IMSC 2 when the TTML 2 feature has been agreed.
14:22:27 [nigel]
... We could guess wrong and end up with 3 approaches instead of 2!
14:24:02 [nigel]
nigel: That leaves the second concern of precision in terms of 2052-1 feature definition.
14:24:21 [nigel]
mike: If there is a gap then we can simply add the gaps to IMSC1.
14:24:56 [nigel]
q+ pal
14:26:55 [nigel]
mike: If there are any areas that are unclear in 2052-1 we should a) communicate them to SMPTE and b) clarify it for our purposes.
14:27:00 [nigel]
ack pal
14:27:47 [nigel]
pal: I don't have a concern with smpte:backgroundImage but we'll address it when we find one.
14:31:03 [Zakim]
14:34:03 [nigel]
nigel: I've set this issue to Pending Review and added a note for the approach we plan to take.
14:35:53 [nigel]
14:35:53 [trackbot]
issue-312 -- forcedDisplay attribute is metadata so should be in ttm not tts namespace -- open
14:35:53 [trackbot]
14:37:01 [mike]
q+ mike
14:37:05 [nigel]
nigel: I raised this due to the wording in the current draft of IMSC 1
14:37:41 [nigel]
pal: Forced subtitles are those which are displayed regardless of the user's preference to display or hide subtitles. An example is translated subtitles in the Avatar film.
14:38:24 [nigel]
pal: The idea is to deliver a single document that will work for both the standard subtitle use case and the forced case, and for the presentation to be dependent on the user preference.
14:38:39 [Dsinger_]
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14:38:53 [nigel]
ack mike
14:38:55 [Dsinger_]
Zakim, who is here?
14:38:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pal, nigel, Mike, [Microsoft], dsinger
14:38:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Dsinger_, jdsmith, mike, pal, Zakim, RRSAgent, nigel, trackbot
14:39:37 [Dsinger_]
Zakim, mute dsinger
14:39:37 [Zakim]
dsinger should now be muted
14:40:05 [nigel]
mike: In the context of a media file it's not simple to select multiple TTML documents simultaneously so what's forced or not forced needs to be in the same document.
14:40:55 [nigel]
... Even when the subtitle track is not selected to be visible then the decoder should present the forced subtitles on the screen. The use case also includes translations of signs visible in video in foreign languages.
14:41:08 [nigel]
... Clearly we need more definition of the semantics of this attribute.
14:43:19 [nigel]
nigel: We have two change proposals that can provide for this feature, which would result in changes in TTML2
14:43:40 [nigel]
pal: My proposal would be to adopt the current mechanism and then switch in IMSC 2 dependent on TTML2.
14:44:05 [nigel]
mike: concurs with pal.
14:44:36 [nigel]
nigel: The forcedDisplay mode is currently in the ttml namespace, yes?
14:45:08 [nigel]
pal: It is, because I could not reference the DECE namespace. One approach would be to define an IMSC1 specific namespaces, or to keep in ttml namespaces and when we get to TTML2 deprecate it or indicate 'don't use this'.
14:45:25 [nigel]
mike: We can't extend the ttml namespace can we, without modifying TTML1?
14:46:41 [Dsinger_]
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14:48:52 [nigel]
ACTION: pal Add wording to describe semantics of forcedDisplay in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312
14:48:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-292 - Add wording to describe semantics of forceddisplay in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].
14:49:12 [nigel]
ACTION: pal Research appropriate namespace for forcedDisplay feature in IMSC 1 for ISSUE-312
14:49:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-293 - Research appropriate namespace for forceddisplay feature in imsc 1 for issue-312 [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-06-05].
14:49:34 [Dsinger_]
Zakim, unmute dsinger
14:49:34 [Zakim]
dsinger should no longer be muted
14:49:40 [nigel]
topic: F2F In Geneva
14:50:23 [Dsinger_]
70 for 2 days
14:50:41 [Dsinger_]
I would say use canteen myself
14:51:12 [nigel]
nigel: There will be a fee for food which needs to be agreed in advance, 70 CHF for 2 days for a proper lunch.
14:51:37 [nigel]
... we can choose to use this or use the canteen which is cheaper and more basic, and doesn't offer a proper 'sit down lunch'.
14:52:51 [nigel]
nigel: It's in the same place either way, but there's no advanced planning needed to buy food in the canteen. The sit-down option is more 'civilised' but takes longer.
14:53:11 [nigel]
mike: Subject to it being in the same place on the top floor at EBU I think we should go for the non-prepaid option.
14:54:11 [nigel]
14:55:55 [nigel]
ACTION: nigel Create a sign-up wbs survey for Geneva.
14:55:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-294 - Create a sign-up wbs survey for geneva. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-06-05].
14:56:58 [nigel]
nigel: we need some WebVTT folk too.
14:57:19 [nigel]
ACTION: dsinger Socialise the Geneva F2F meeting amongst the WebVTT community
14:57:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-295 - Socialise the geneva f2f meeting amongst the webvtt community [on David Singer - due 2014-06-05].
14:58:13 [Dsinger_]
14:58:15 [Zakim]
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14:58:19 [nigel]
rrsagent, make logs public
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14:59:05 [Zakim]
14:59:06 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were pal, nigel, Mike, [Microsoft], dsinger
14:59:10 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:59:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate nigel
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