13:59:23 RRSAgent has joined #tt 13:59:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-irc 13:59:25 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:59:25 Zakim has joined #tt 13:59:27 Zakim, this will be TTML 13:59:27 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute 13:59:28 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 13:59:28 Date: 22 May 2014 13:59:34 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started 13:59:41 +pal 13:59:59 +nigel 14:00:40 chair: nigel 14:00:45 Present: pal, nigel 14:01:17 Regrets: glenn 14:01:24 zakim, who is on the call? 14:01:24 On the phone I see pal, nigel 14:02:05 mike has joined #tt 14:02:23 Present+ mike 14:02:48 wrapping up another call. be here soon.... 14:06:25 scribeNick: nigel 14:07:22 +Mike 14:07:26 jdsmith has joined #tt 14:07:34 +[Microsoft] 14:07:47 zakim, Microsoft is jdsmith 14:07:47 +jdsmith; got it 14:07:54 Present+ jdsmith 14:10:47 Topic: MPEG liaison re MIME Codecs parameter 14:11:15 nigel: The thread has been quite hard to follow 14:11:52 mike: Everything that's in MPEG related to TTML came from the CFF work. It would be helpful to go through what we did and wanted to achieve, to clarify the current state. 14:12:07 ... Maybe if Dave and/or Cyril can join us they can capture what the MPEG request is. 14:13:10 nigel: I managed to add to issue-305 the topic areas and Mike's sense of priority/ordering on them but still need to tease requirements out if I can. 14:13:37 mike: It'll be tough because lots of it stems from DECE work that ended up in MPEG and that's not on the thread at all. 14:14:17 mike: Maybe I should start drafting something and then nigel and I can see if we have everything that we know of covered, as a good starting point. 14:15:16 ... Some of the reasons I've been remembering are the inability to represent strict subsets of TTML features - you're forced into extension namespace which then implies lack of compatibility with TTML features 14:15:33 ... which there's no way to do today. That's an open issue with the profile mechanism. 14:16:30 ... These gaps/errors in the profile mechanism as currently defined lead to the current MPEG solution. 14:17:01 pal: I'd encourage the two of you to get together so that the effort to capture the requirement does capture the background. 14:18:15 mike: For example tts:colour - it's an unresolved issue that a strict subset of the TTML feature can not be defined. 14:18:53 pal: We discussed this in Shenzhen but not sure if there's a resolution. 14:19:13 nigel: So to summarise there's no way to define a feature as a strict subset of another feature. 14:20:26 mike: Without going to incredibly fine grained feature definitions this can't be done. 14:21:53 mike: There should be an action item if there isn't one to go through all the features and check that they match the prose in TTML. 14:22:15 nigel: That's related to the work needed to define tests, if we continue with the original approach. 14:22:21 + +41.22.717.aaaa 14:22:31 Present+ frans 14:22:40 zakim, +41.22.717.aaaa is frans 14:22:40 +frans; got it 14:22:47 Frans_EBU has joined #tt 14:24:43 ACTION: mike Describe the history for how we got to the signalling needed for MPEG that came from DECE for ISSUE-305. 14:24:43 Created ACTION-290 - Describe the history for how we got to the signalling needed for mpeg that came from dece for issue-305. [on Mike Dolan - due 2014-05-29]. 14:25:19 action-290: Nigel to add any requirements from other places. 14:25:19 Notes added to action-290 Describe the history for how we got to the signalling needed for mpeg that came from dece for issue-305.. 14:27:15 ACTION: nigel Find the related issue that describes the need to restrict or extend individual profile features 14:27:16 Created ACTION-291 - Find the related issue that describes the need to restrict or extend individual profile features [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-05-29]. 14:27:37 Topic: F2F Planning 14:27:41 action-289? 14:27:41 action-289 -- Nigel Megitt to Create a wiki page for the september f2f with a draft agenda and an 'intention to attend' section. -- due 2014-05-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:27:41 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/289 14:27:59 nigel: I've created the wiki page at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014 14:30:11 nigel: Describes agenda as listed on web page. 14:31:36 mike: Day 2 conflicts with the SMPTE meetings - it would be helpful to schedule breakouts on day 2 30 days out so that mike and pal (at least) can work out their optimal attendance. 14:32:01 mike: I can come back to you with the SMPTE meeting details for 17th about a month before so that we can schedule this. 14:33:38 close action-289 14:33:38 Closed action-289. 14:34:51 Topic: Profile updates this week 14:35:13 nigel: This really needs Glenn but there's one small part I think we can cover. 14:36:47 ... This is the default for @validationAction which is currently "abort" and mandatory. 14:37:18 ... Proposal is to make it "warn" so that processors can attempt to display document by default, and also to make it a recommendation to the processor rather than mandatory. 14:38:14 pal: Does this fully capture Glenn's take on TTML2 or is there further work required? We can wait until he's on a call before answering this. 14:39:02 pal: I need to review the rest of this work before coming to a conclusion on this. 14:39:14 mike: We need Glenn for this. 14:39:32 nigel: Okay we'll defer this proposal until we can bring Glenn in. 14:40:26 topic: Issues discussed and raised over the past week (selected subset) 14:41:15 issue-309? 14:41:15 issue-309 -- Image profile needs to permit text equivalent -- raised 14:41:15 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/309 14:43:41 pal: We can add a recommendation that when images are distributed then text should also be distributed as a separate version of the document alongside if the requirement for text exists. 14:43:56 ... It's not required for all applications. The specification does not prevent that. 14:45:59 nigel: I'd need to see the explanatory text on this. 14:46:45 mike: If there is a requirement, then I'm okay with adding the ability to add text to the image profile. There's also added value in a standalone text document for other purposes. This allows better solutions. 14:46:54 ... We need to see the good reason or requirement for this though. 14:47:26 pal: I'll add a note as a first step a paragraph explaining how the requirements to accompany images with text can be accomplished by including an image profile and a text profile alongside the same media object. 14:48:42 mike: I don't think that's the requirement. This has a long history and there are some unusual agendas at play. 14:49:39 s/There's also added value in a standalone text document for other purposes. This allows better solutions./ 14:52:10 issue-310? 14:52:10 issue-310 -- Forward reference rule doesn't take into account child elements -- raised 14:52:10 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/310 14:53:45 pal: The idea here is that just using a SAX parser you can render the document as you get a call back for every single node, without waiting until the entire document has been parsed prior to rendering. 14:55:26 pal: I'll have a go at rewording to express this section better. 14:57:00 issue-312? 14:57:00 issue-312 -- forcedDisplay attribute is metadata so should be in ttm not tts namespace -- raised 14:57:00 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312 14:57:25 open issue-312 14:58:26 nigel: This needs some wording that describes what the processor needs to do. 15:01:33 -Mike 15:01:34 -jdsmith 15:01:35 -pal 15:01:37 -frans 15:01:43 -nigel 15:01:44 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended 15:01:44 Attendees were pal, nigel, Mike, jdsmith, frans 15:01:57 rrsagent, make logs public 15:02:01 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:02:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:04:18 s/wrapping up another call. be here soon..../ 15:06:21 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:06:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:09:17 nigel has left #tt 16:33:47 Zakim has left #tt 22:19:07 silvia has joined #tt