12:58:37 RRSAgent has joined #svg 12:58:37 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-irc 12:58:39 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:58:39 Zakim has joined #svg 12:58:41 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 12:58:41 ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 12:58:42 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 12:58:42 Date: 22 May 2014 12:59:31 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0039.html 13:00:25 need a minute 13:00:28 plinss__ has joined #svg 13:00:43 GA_SVGWG()9:00AM has now started 13:00:50 +[IPcaller] 13:01:01 zakim, IPCaller is me 13:01:01 +cabanier; got it 13:01:25 +krit 13:01:59 +Tav 13:01:59 +[IPcaller] 13:02:09 Zakim, [IP is me 13:02:09 +ed; got it 13:02:19 chair: ed 13:03:17 +??P4 13:03:44 zakim, ??P4 is me 13:03:44 +stakagi; got it 13:03:56 scribeNick: ed 13:04:11 topic: Cleaning up SVG2 13:04:19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0022.html 13:04:42 krit: we discussed on ML, want to remove sections... 13:05:01 ... first part ...(missed) 13:05:33 +??P5 13:05:43 Zakim, ??P5 is me 13:05:43 +nikos; got it 13:05:44 ... second part, we should make css always convert to svg (???) 13:05:49 +[IPcaller] 13:06:02 zakim, [IPcaller] is Rich 13:06:02 +Rich; got it 13:06:15 scribenick: nikos 13:08:09 Tav: 2 issues here 13:08:17 ... you want all css stuff in one place. I don't think that's a good idea 13:08:23 ... text stuff should be in the text section 13:08:40 ... I want to see what css modules apply in the text section, not hidden elsewhere in the spec 13:08:59 ... second issue is that if someone is looking at the spec, it's good to see what the css modules are being used for 13:09:27 ... e.g. filter chapter should have small section with explanation of what filter is and one or two examples and then refer to css spec 13:09:48 ... this way someone looking at the chapter can get a quick idea of what it's about 13:09:57 ... you also asked that text sections be moved. e.g. text-decoration 13:10:06 ... text-decoration has problems interacting with svg 13:10:20 ... would be great if that's solved in the spec but I still think we should have examples 13:10:42 ... what parts of css modules apply to what versions of svg? 13:10:55 ... to answer that we have to have something in the svg spec stating what parts of css are used 13:11:15 ... I don't think you can just remove stuff that is defined by svg 13:11:45 ... I think text-indent could be removed, but there's details to be discussed. does it apply to svg 1.1 style text or just when you have a region for layout? 13:11:52 krit: I don't want to get into detail for each section 13:12:04 ... in general I don't think we should preserve svg 1.1. style 13:12:09 ... we should remove anything that is duplicated 13:12:14 ... e.g. filters has no content 13:12:25 ... all the sections with no content can be removed in my eyes 13:12:33 ... of course there are links that need to be defined 13:12:48 ... how certain things apply to svg needs to be defined 13:13:07 ... but it doesn't make sense to have text for everything 13:13:23 ... going back to filter effects example, I think examples can be in the filter effects spec 13:13:35 ... it's not a handbook, it's a specification for implementers 13:13:42 ... even examples can be out-dated 13:14:05 ... why not just say you can apply filter effects and link to the spec 13:14:15 ... we have nothing about blending in the svg spec yet blending applies to svg 13:14:32 Tav: I think we should have short sections for each. I hate having to click through multiple specifications 13:14:47 krit: that's always going to be the case, whether examples are given or not 13:15:04 ... we need an interactions module that explains how parts of other specs are used 13:15:13 ... we need normative text if there is svg specific behaviour 13:15:28 Tav: I think when you look at what can be cut it will be quite limited 13:15:34 krit: well I definitely don't want to cut everything 13:16:05 Tav: when I look through the css specs, fonts 3 is a good example, it has lots of examples and I find it easy to understand 13:16:10 krit: every other css spec should be the same 13:16:16 ... svg should concentrate on svg itself 13:17:33 krit: we agree we need a section that explains the interaction with the css modules 13:17:36 Tav: yes 13:18:02 krit: can we agree sections with no content but just links to other specs. e.g. text-align 13:18:19 Tav: I agree that when the spec is done we can clean that up. but dont agree that we can remove right away 13:18:31 ... we need to look at each section as a whole and work out what is valuable to keep 13:21:14 scribenick: krit 13:22:18 krit: Can we agree that each section needs a review as well as the CSS counter part and that we need to check the whole CSS module if and how it applies to SVG before we remove anything? 13:22:28 Tav: Yes, absolutely 13:22:32 +??P7 13:23:07 -??P7 13:23:58 action: Tav to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text and compare it with SVG 13:23:58 Created ACTION-3626 - Review css text decoration and css3 text and compare it with svg [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2014-05-29]. 13:24:05 action: krit to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text and compare it with SVG 13:24:05 Created ACTION-3627 - Review css text decoration and css3 text and compare it with svg [on Dirk Schulze - due 2014-05-29]. 13:24:25 topic: text-decoration-color 13:24:49 Tav: problem is that the property allows a single color to be defined to a text decoration 13:25:06 Tav: SVG on the other hand allows fill and stroke for the text decoration 13:25:21 Tav: how could we make these apply with text-decoration-color 13:26:06 Tav: it would desireable to define a pattern or gradient on the text decoration 13:26:30 ed: so the fill of text on the stroke of text decoration? 13:26:35 Tav: something like that 13:26:50 I meant: text-decoration-fill and text-decoration-stroke 13:26:56 krit: don't we have context-stroke and context fill on svg fonts? 13:27:00 Tav: yes 13:27:10 Tav: but a values 13:27:30 krit: right, could text-decor-color take these keywords? 13:28:05 krit: you can not define stroke and fill separately for decoration 13:28:25 krit: but does it apply to the stroke or fill of the text decoration itself 13:28:34 s/krit/Tav/ 13:28:57 Tav: it would be interesting to know if fill and stroke will apply to text in cSS as well 13:29:15 krit: 1) yes fill and stroke will apply to text in future 13:29:25 Tav: in a way compatible to SVG 13:29:34 +??P7 13:29:40 krit: we should make sure that this is the case for the CSS WG 13:29:44 s/text in future/html text in the future/ 13:30:05 Tav: concerned that this will not be the case 13:30:09 Zakim, ??P7 is me 13:30:09 +nikos; got it 13:30:29 krit: filla nd stroke will apply to text in CSS as it applies to SVG elements today 13:31:51 krit: would the SVG WG accept to change initial value for fill to currentColor 13:32:04 krit: that could solve the problem with color and fill on text for HTML and SVG 13:32:14 ed: what is the value of color if not defined? 13:32:23 krit: it is an inheriting property 13:32:28 krit: ancestor sets color 13:32:40 krit: it no ancestor does, it is black 13:32:52 -krit 13:33:25 scribeNick: ed 13:34:06 ed: are the benefits worth it? what problems would it solve? 13:34:43 nikos: I think dirk meant that you could then specify the fill and stroke separately 13:35:04 ... currentColor seems a bit weird 13:36:49 nikos: I think Dirk was meaning that you could set text-decoration-fill without setting text-decoration-stroke and if stroke was enabled then it would get a sensible value from somewhere 13:38:50 ed: another question is: how important is it to be able to control fill and stroke separately for text-decoration 13:39:04 tav: you can already do it using another tspan 13:39:15 ... simple thing to fix if we have CSSWG on board 13:41:19 ed: so this is option 3 in your writeup, correct? 13:41:50 tav: yes, combined with option 2, setting 'text-decoration-color' set text 'fill' 13:43:01 ed: ok, let's see what feedback the css editors give us on that proposal 13:43:31 topic: textLength and 13:43:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0011.html 13:44:44 ed: there's variety of behavior for textLength combined with tspan, I'm thinking that the spec might be too vague 13:44:50 ... tav what do you think? 13:46:02 ... it gets a little tricky when you have textLength both on parent and on a child 13:46:12 ... not sure the spec covers that in enough detail 13:46:40 tav: you'd use the textlenght from the tspan, and then use that to go back to the parent 13:46:57 nikos: yes, that's the way i read it too 13:47:21 ed: we have no tests for this in the testsuite yet 13:47:48 tav: suggest that thomas proposes some clarified spec text, and a test 13:48:59 ACTION: thomas to propose clarifications for textLength and , and to submit some tests to the svg2 testsuite for this 13:48:59 Created ACTION-3628 - Propose clarifications for textlength and , and to submit some tests to the svg2 testsuite for this [on Thomas Smailus - due 2014-05-29]. 13:49:31 topic: vertical-align, baseline-shift, alignment-baseline, dominant-baseline 13:50:02 plinss__ has joined #svg 13:50:54 tav: inkscape has baseline-shift for sub and super scripts 13:51:12 ed: what about alignment-baseline / dominant-baseline? 13:51:16 tav: don't think so 13:52:08 ed: CL sent a mail with the conclusion from csswg on letting svg2 define these properties for now 13:52:19 tav: fine with me 13:55:55 -ed 13:55:58 -stakagi 13:55:59 -Tav 13:55:59 -Rich 13:56:01 -cabanier 13:56:06 Zakim, end telcon 13:56:06 I don't understand 'end telcon', ed 13:56:08 -nikos.a 13:56:25 trackbot, end telcon 13:56:25 Zakim, list attendees 13:56:25 As of this point the attendees have been cabanier, krit, Tav, ed, stakagi, nikos, Rich 13:56:33 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:56:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-minutes.html trackbot 13:56:34 RRSAgent, bye 13:56:34 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-actions.rdf : 13:56:34 ACTION: Tav to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text and compare it with SVG [1] 13:56:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-irc#T13-23-58 13:56:34 ACTION: krit to review CSS Text decoration and CSS3 Text and compare it with SVG [2] 13:56:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-irc#T13-24-05 13:56:34 ACTION: thomas to propose clarifications for textLength and , and to submit some tests to the svg2 testsuite for this [3] 13:56:34 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-svg-irc#T13-48-59