13:32:42 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:32:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-dap-irc 13:32:44 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:32:44 Zakim has joined #dap 13:32:46 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:32:46 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 28 minutes 13:32:47 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:32:47 Date: 15 May 2014 13:32:48 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014May/0011.html 13:33:06 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014May/0011.html 13:33:29 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:33:45 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:51:39 LisaDeLuca_IBM has joined #dap 13:52:28 Present+ Mats_Wichmann 13:52:50 might be a few minutes late getting on tel, finishing other call 13:52:57 sorry if so 13:59:23 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:59:29 +Cathy 13:59:53 +??P12 14:00:06 +[IPcaller] 14:00:12 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:00:13 +fjh; got it 14:00:26 Zakim: ??P12 is me 14:00:36 zakim, ??P12 is me 14:00:36 +mats; got it 14:00:48 Present+ Cathy_Chan 14:00:55 zakim, who is here? 14:00:55 On the phone I see Cathy, mats, fjh 14:00:57 On IRC I see LisaDeLuca_IBM, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, richt, slightlyoff__, tobie_, Josh_Soref__, trackbot, mounir 14:01:10 +Lisa_DeLuca 14:01:15 ScribeNick: fjh 14:01:43 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, announcements 14:01:50 fjh: I'll scribe today 14:02:01 Update to 'Network Information API' to shelve - published 10 April 14:02:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Apr/0013.html 14:02:08 Implementation Status wiki updated, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Apr/0003.html 14:02:26 Non-normative editor draft updates to fix test suite links and other minor updates 14:02:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Apr/0035.html 14:02:54 anssik has joined #dap 14:03:03 +[IPcaller] 14:03:09 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:03:20 Present+ Rich_Tibbett 14:03:34 zakim, who is here? 14:03:34 On the phone I see Lisa_DeLuca, richt, Cathy, mats, fjh 14:03:36 On IRC I see anssik, LisaDeLuca_IBM, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, richt, slightlyoff__, tobie_, Josh_Soref__, trackbot, mounir 14:03:38 +??P15 14:03:41 zakim, ??P15 is me 14:03:41 +anssik; got it 14:05:02 fjh: Media Capture and Streams progressing in TF, likely to go to LC soon so if interested look at it 14:05:45 Topic: Minutes approval 14:05:53 Approve minutes from 27 March 2014 14:05:54 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Mar/att-0024/minutes-2014-03-27.html 14:06:00 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 27 March 2014 are approved 14:06:15 Topic: HTML Media Capture 14:06:24 proposal to change Security & Privacy considerations to non-normative. 14:06:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014May/0008.html (Frederick) 14:06:52 action: fjh to send CfC to update HTML Media Capture with proposal for security/privacy consideration, 1 week CfC 14:06:52 Created ACTION-689 - Send cfc to update html media capture with proposal for security/privacy consideration, 1 week cfc [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-05-22]. 14:07:02 Minor battery update to make security/privacy section non-normative (done) 14:07:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014May/0009.html 14:07:36 fjh: did not address Network Service DIscovery security/privacy regarding non-normative, anticipate other priorities for that work 14:07:50 Topic: Network Service Discovery 14:08:16 fjh: posted summary of some thoughts about NSD direction http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014May/0021.html 14:10:12 One case is Web & TV, we need detail on the actual use cases and requirements: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014May/0019.html 14:10:28 Another discussion is pushing content to local network devices as simpler than pulling, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Apr/0027.html 14:10:40 Mark Vickers notes that abstraction is used for window.print and also 2nd screen cases ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Apr/0025.html ) 14:13:21 richt: if we find a simpler approach might get away for existing devices and services 14:14:59 richt: working on named web sockets, can get bidirectional connections, very simple 14:15:17 … advertisement and discovery is simple , does not use UPnP 14:15:41 … however we also want UPnP and zeroconf 14:16:12 cathy: agree we need to go back to use cases and define problem 14:16:21 … need to get broader discussion 14:18:00 fjh: we might want to reconsider the very high implementation bar, which targets a very specific community of browser implementers 14:18:19 … yet might want adoption earlier via browser extensions etc 14:18:39 … should consider Jean Claude implementation but possibly premature before we review use cases 14:18:49 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Apr/2014Apr/0033.html 14:19:10 fjh: did we every reply to Youenn, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Apr/0022.html 14:19:17 … a reply is warrented 14:20:16 action: fjh to reply to Youenn re use cases etc 14:20:16 Created ACTION-690 - Reply to youenn re use cases etc [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-05-22]. 14:20:40 fjh: issues list is all about network service discovery 14:20:40 http://services.w3.org/xslt?xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/issues.xsl&xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open%3fsort=id&recurse_auth=on&content-type=&submit=transform 14:21:27 fjh: a number of issues such as search by device type might be resolved by use case reveiw 14:22:26 fjh: one of these is fixed for promises 14:22:31 close ISSUE-158 14:22:31 Closed ISSUE-158. 14:23:22 fjh: please all work on documenting and discussing use cases on list 14:23:29 Original requirements: http://www.w3.org/TR/hnreq/ 14:23:39 richt: we should revisit this as well 14:24:13 Topic: Testing 14:24:22 Cathy has joined #dap 14:24:28 fjh: following webapps approach to testing 14:26:15 fjh: we need wg volunteers to review and approve pull requests 14:26:19 cathy: ok for me 14:26:26 anssik: ok as well 14:28:11 fjh: how do we, for HTML media capture, close or change the pull request 14:28:27 anssik: can close them or ask submitter to change 14:28:34 fjh: going with the change is best 14:29:11 cathy: dom can do anything, close etc 14:31:58 anssik: web test model not documented but assumes git 14:32:36 fjh: anssik do you have any next steps 14:32:42 ACTION-523? 14:32:42 ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN 14:32:42 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523 14:33:19 anssik: working on implementations, e.g. ambient light, so should have additional implementation on chromium, can move interop on that spec forward 14:34:46 for battery google/chromium may want some changes to this spec, so may need to defer testing 14:35:16 … mozilla has confirmed 14:35:47 … ok with change, need to update test suite, then publish another LC, CR is 2 years old 14:36:36 action: fjh to make CfC to update Battery and do another LC per suggested changes from google 14:36:36 Created ACTION-691 - Make cfc to update battery and do another lc per suggested changes from google [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-05-22]. 14:37:22 fjh: do we have a proposal on the list 14:37:31 anssik: we have one, but it is not complete 14:38:04 ok to send a CfC for proposed changes to the spec 14:38:21 then, land changes to the spec, assuming no concerns 14:38:48 pub LC, then another CR + update the test suite 14:40:34 anssik: get more implementer feedback on ambient light, another implementation will be Chromium 14:41:09 … vibration - we have 2 implementations, chrome/Firefox so could pass interop now with complete test suite 14:41:20 … need to check test suite for completeness 14:41:52 … html media capture, have 2 implementations, landed in WebKit, not sure shipping in product , has been in Chrome for a year 14:42:00 https://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/ImplementationStatus 14:42:06 … updated implementation status wiki to reflect on this 14:43:00 tizen has some form of media capture (webkit based), fwiw 14:43:12 … for battery there is proposed change + need to get Chromium implementation to complete interop 14:44:59 html media capture - need security/privacy change, have two implementations 14:45:01 marcosc has joined #dap 14:45:27 marcosc has joined #dap 14:45:58 ambient light - have one implementation, chromium implementation almost done, so should have interop completed soon 14:46:46 anssik: firefox implemented device light events, exposing lux value. Light level event exposes human readable range 14:46:50 … thus only part implemented 14:47:03 … chromium also only implemented device light events 14:47:45 … question of whether to remove light level event interface, might drop from spec, if so have two implementations and test suite from marcos 14:48:43 fjh: don't remember who brought that feature in, but does not seem to have support 14:49:18 action: fjh to send CfC to remove light level event from ambient light, return to LC 14:49:19 Created ACTION-692 - Send cfc to remove light level event from ambient light, return to lc [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-05-22]. 14:49:43 anssik: browser vendors prefer to have single interface 14:49:50 … reason for two was to avoid more events 14:50:47 … sending CfC ok now, since that feature is behind a flag and can still work on interop in parallel 14:52:26 proximity - feature in firefox, chromium intent to implement but not much progress, concern over use cases 14:52:58 anssik: idea was that you can effectivly obtain proximity using ambient light API 14:53:34 vibration - in both chromium and firefox, minor change to spec, so firefox implementation will need an update (or confirmation that it is up to date) 14:53:58 action: fjh to send message to confirm firefox status and plans to update for vibration 14:53:59 Created ACTION-693 - Send message to confirm firefox status and plans to update for vibration [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-05-22]. 14:54:29 Thanks anssik for the excellent summary! 14:55:43 http://status.modern.ie/ 14:55:50 anssik: IE team is also interested in some of these specs 14:56:01 … ambient light and battery status 14:56:23 … also vibration 14:57:41 action: fjh to check on how to communicate with IE team re DAP and feedback and ask about their plans if any to join DAP 14:57:42 Created ACTION-694 - Check on how to communicate with ie team re dap and feedback and ask about their plans if any to join dap [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-05-22]. 14:59:04 Microsoft is member of DAP 14:59:27 close ACTION-694 14:59:27 Closed ACTION-694. 14:59:45 action: fjh to check with Microsoft DAP members regarding plans for implementation and interop participation 14:59:45 Created ACTION-695 - Check with microsoft dap members regarding plans for implementation and interop participation [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-05-22]. 15:00:18 Thanks Anssi for overview and work on testing/interop 15:00:33 cathy: submitted some comment on html media capture pull request 15:00:40 … are you continuing to improve test suite 15:00:51 anssik: should talk to ??? 15:01:14 … in github or with direct mail cc'ing list 15:02:42 Topic: Tracking Preference Expression LC request for comments 15:03:03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014May/0007.html 15:03:18 fjh: volunteers requested for review of this specification 15:04:08 Topic: Other business 15:04:37 LisaDeLuca_IBM: Web and Mobile Interest Group have been talking about Cordova alignment 15:05:03 anssik: I looked at gaps, Cordova implemented early versions 15:05:45 LisaDeLuca_IBM: we need specific details of what needs to be changed, then can expect developers to edit 15:05:51 anssik: can diff WebIDL 15:06:14 … can also start with test suite, to see what fails 15:06:42 fjh: if people want to help should they check out inteste group 15:06:49 lisa: or send email to me 15:07:17 Next call 29 May, in two weeks 15:07:39 -richt 15:07:44 -Lisa_DeLuca 15:07:46 -anssik 15:07:46 -Cathy 15:07:47 Topic: Adjourn 15:07:47 -mats 15:08:02 Topic: Action Item Review 15:08:21 open actions 15:08:25 ACTION-523? 15:08:25 ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN 15:08:25 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523 15:08:29 ACTION-682? 15:08:29 ACTION-682 -- Frederick Hirsch to Follow up on how to approve pull requests and to identify correct reviewers, remove inappropriate critics etc -- due 2014-03-06 -- OPEN 15:08:29 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/682 15:08:41 fjh: we discussed on this call, can close 15:08:45 close ACTION-682 15:08:45 Closed ACTION-682. 15:08:50 ACTION-685? 15:08:50 ACTION-685 -- Frederick Hirsch to Review priorities of cordova alignment -- due 2014-03-27 -- OPEN 15:08:50 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/685 15:09:17 fjh: alignment being discussed in Web and Mobile Interest Group 15:09:22 close ACTION-685 15:09:22 Closed ACTION-685. 15:09:24 pending actions 15:09:28 close ACTION-683 15:09:28 Closed ACTION-683. 15:09:33 ACTION-683? 15:09:33 ACTION-683 -- Frederick Hirsch to Draft proposal for conformance and testing related to security and privacy -- due 2014-03-27 -- CLOSED 15:09:33 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/683 15:09:38 ACTION-686? 15:09:38 ACTION-686 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to React on testing html media capture privacy & security considerations -- due 2014-04-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:09:38 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/686 15:09:44 close ACTION-686 15:09:44 Closed ACTION-686. 15:09:49 ACTION-687? 15:09:49 ACTION-687 -- Frederick Hirsch to Make request to web and tv interest group re network service discovery -- due 2014-04-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:09:50 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/687 15:09:54 close ACTION-687 15:09:54 Closed ACTION-687. 15:09:58 ACTION-688? 15:09:58 ACTION-688 -- Frederick Hirsch to Contact implementers re network service discovery directly -- due 2014-04-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:09:58 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/688 15:10:03 close ACTION-688 15:10:03 Closed ACTION-688. 15:10:08 Topic: Adjourn 15:10:12 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:10:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:11:00 -fjh 15:11:01 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 15:11:01 Attendees were Cathy, fjh, mats, Lisa_DeLuca, richt, anssik 15:12:23 marcosc has joined #dap 15:17:36 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:17:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:18:32 marcosc_ has joined #dap 15:19:10 s/might be a few minutes late getting on tel, finishing other call// 15:19:19 s/sorry if so// 15:19:28 s/Zakim: ??P12 is me// 15:20:32 s/???/Zhiqiang Zhang/ 15:20:51 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:20:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:21:33 s/inteste/the interest/ 15:21:53 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:21:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:59:23 richt has joined #dap 16:19:49 Zakim has left #dap 16:28:43 richt has joined #dap 16:38:30 richt has joined #dap 17:18:01 marcosc has joined #dap 18:17:50 fjh has joined #dap 18:50:47 fjh has joined #dap 20:27:27 mats has joined #dap 20:33:59 fjh has joined #dap 21:05:20 dom has joined #dap 21:22:38 Josh_Soref__ has joined #dap 21:26:46 tobie_ has joined #dap 21:27:55 slightlyoff__ has joined #dap