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00:03:00 <Travis> zakim, this is D3e
00:03:00 <Zakim> ok, Travis; that matches RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM
00:03:17 <Travis> RRSAgent: this meeting spans midnight
00:03:24 <Travis> RRSAgent: make logs public
00:03:36 <Travis> Present+ Travis
00:04:13 <masayuki> Hello.
00:08:15 <Travis> masayuki: welcome!
00:08:49 <Travis> Bug list: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=DOM3%20Events&list_id=36781&product=WebAppsWG&resolution=---
00:09:09 <Travis> Gary and I worked a little this past week on some of the bugs, and got down to 7 last night :-)
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00:16:14 <Zakim> + +1.425.936.aaaa
00:16:41 <Travis> zakim, +1.425 is garykac
00:16:41 <Zakim> +garykac; got it
00:16:46 <Travis> Present+ garykac
00:17:11 <Travis> scribe: travis
00:17:15 <Travis> scribenick: travis
00:17:22 <Travis> Topic: reviewing last few bugs :-)
00:17:41 <Travis> First bug we'd like to talk about is: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25485
00:18:03 <Travis> This bug concerns the overlap between DOM L3 and DOM4's definition of the eventing system (model)
00:18:14 <garykac> If we remove the stuff covered in DOM4, then we remove Sections 3 and 4 (and a lot of glossary items)
00:18:37 <garykac> Before doing that, we'd need to check with them and run a check to make sure that we don't have anything that should be added to their spec.
00:19:07 <Travis> I'm not married to any of the content in those old sections; it might be best for the web community to only have a single source of info for the 'official' definition of how the event model works.
00:19:11 <garykac> We (D3E) would probably keep all the deprecated stuff in the appendices (unfortunately).
00:19:32 <Travis> Gary and I reviewed the DOM4 spec briefly and it looks fairly complete, though we want to double-check.
00:19:33 <garykac> travis: agreed
00:19:54 <garykac> We should compose an email and send it to the list
00:20:02 <garykac> Should we try to compose a draft here?
00:20:48 <Travis> I think the essense of the draft will be what we think are the duplicated parts, and a proposal of how the spec would look without them?
00:21:18 <garykac> We should also call attention to the spec dependency graph: HTML5 -> D3E -> DOM4 (since we would now depend on DOM4)
00:22:03 <Travis> Yes, it seems a little odd conceptually, but might be OK given everyone's understanding of how this stuff happened historically.
00:23:16 <Travis> If we don't eliminate the redundancy, then we need to be certain that our spec and DOM4 are semantically equivalent.
00:23:37 <Travis> (We use prose descriptions, DOM4 uses algorithms--a little hard to rationalize the difference, but it can be done.)
00:25:40 <garykac> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VqwfHyNDtoOoDzZZ7xZlrcxtcy8ZORV1pUoRjRbwJro/edit
00:38:54 <garykac> OK. The doc looks like a first draft
00:39:46 <garykac> We should sleep on it and review tomorrow-ish and then send it out to the MLs.
00:44:17 <garykac> masayuki: Did you see the update to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23908
00:45:27 <garykac> We'd like to have a more accurate description than "default keyboard layout" since we're not sure that it defaults to US.
00:45:45 <masayuki_> garykac: Yeah, but I don't know the answer of the last question, though.
00:46:45 <masayuki_> On Mac, "current ASCII capable keyboard layout" is the last selected ASCII capable keyboard layout.
00:47:19 <garykac> "last selected" - ick
00:47:22 <Travis> Very interesting.
00:47:33 <garykac> I doubt that's something that is consistent cross-platform
00:47:50 <masayuki_> On Windows, we can just ignore Kana-Lock state for Japanese. I'm not sure about Korean and Chinese.
00:48:36 <Travis> ...and when there is no previously selected ASCII capable keyboard layout, then there needs to be a fallback, right?
00:49:13 <masayuki_> Travis: I guess that the first ASCII capable keyboard layout in the keyboard layout list is used.
00:49:13 <garykac> I wonder what it would do if the "last seleced" keyboard layout didn't support the key being pressed (eg: last keyboard = US; key pressed = UK backslash)
00:50:05 <garykac> (or the 'ro' key on a Japanese keyboard)
00:50:27 <garykac> (ろ)
00:51:04 <masayuki_> Good point. However, US keyboard layout on Mac is a special keyboard layout. It changes input character by physical keyboard type!
00:52:02 <masayuki_> E.g., "Quote" key inputs : with JIS keyboard but ' with ANSI keyboard, :-(
00:52:43 <masayuki_> Like that, "IntlRo" key inputs \.
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00:53:47 <Travis> Gary and I are inclined to leave the current text there (it was our best effort given what we know) and are welcome to improve the text as new information comes available.
00:54:00 <masayuki_> Anyway, if D3E spec defines keydown and keyup shouldn't be fired during composition, this issue may be WONTFIX.
00:54:40 <Travis> It does matter during Ctrl/Meta key combinations though.
00:54:49 <garykac> These key combinations will occur outside of composition sessions
00:55:11 <Travis> Despite this, I'd still like to resolve the bug "fixed" for now.
00:55:32 <garykac> I think that it's as Fixed as we're likely to get it in the near future.
00:55:44 <garykac> If it is an issue, we can revisit in UI Events
00:55:58 <masayuki_> We don't need to worry about Meta key. On Mac, during pressing Meta key causes ASCII capable keyboard's character is passed by NSEvent.
00:56:36 <masayuki_> I.e., browsers should just honor the OS's event.
00:56:44 <garykac> I'm hoping that in all these cases, the browser can simply return what the OS provides.
00:57:03 <Travis> Yep, that would be great.
00:57:10 <garykac> I don't want them to create goofy mapping tables to fix this problem.
00:57:23 <Travis> (We just wanted to try and write that into the spec, but it baffled us a bit...)
00:58:00 <masayuki_> Pressing Ctrl key causes a control character code (< 0x20) on all OSes.
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00:59:35 <Travis> Ctrl+[some character] uses the ASCII capable layout though--that's what we were comparing to Meta.
01:00:36 <masayuki_> Travis: yes. I think that browsers should use same character as native application's shortcut key handling.
01:00:45 <Travis> Agree.
01:00:47 <garykac> sgtm
01:00:51 <Travis> We are out of time
01:01:12 <garykac> same time/place next week
01:01:25 <Travis> Yep. Hopefully with only 1 or 2 bugs left!
01:01:30 <Travis> Thanks all!
01:01:33 <masayuki_> Even with Kana is locked on Windows, Ctrl + ASCII character shortcut work fine on Windows.
01:01:38 <masayuki_> Thanks!
01:01:41 <Zakim> -garykac
01:01:44 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
01:01:45 <Zakim> RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
01:01:45 <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], +1.425.936.aaaa, garykac
01:02:04 <Travis> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
01:02:04 <Zakim> sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
01:02:20 <Travis> RRSAgent: please generate the mintues
01:02:20 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please generate the mintues', Travis.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
01:02:32 <Travis> RRSAgent: please make the minutes
01:02:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html Travis
01:02:54 <Travis> RRSAgent: make logs public
01:04:07 <Travis> RRSAgent: make the minutes
01:04:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html Travis
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19:09:21 <ArtB> hey marcosc, when you get a chance, I'd like your feedback re http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2014AprJun/0445.html
19:10:11 <marcosc> ArtB: sure
19:10:57 <ArtB> thanks!
19:11:09 <ArtB> I'll bug you in a week if you forget ;-)
19:11:17 <marcosc> ArtB: I was about to reply when you sent it... but all I had was a +1
19:11:33 <ArtB> ok; please do reply to the list
19:11:45 <marcosc> I hate sending +1s, but ok
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