See also: IRC log
checking attendees ...
skip - jirka not here
david: volunteered to
... started doing some minor editorial changes today
... not done yet
... only typos to fix
... only review, did not go through "todo" parts of the mapping
dave: what is the process of the
mapping becoming a module in XLIFF 2?
... do we need to support that with a test suite?
... or s.t. like that?
david: would be good to have "in"
and "out" files
... yves has examples
... how it looks in native format (usually HTML)
... would be more complex compared to other modules
... in other modules you worry just about localisation roundtrip
... but not about what the information was before extraction
... the XLIFF spec has not a lot of instruction for extraction / merger
... they expect that both have the some knowledge
... the extraction is not really described
... the extraction parts would be non normative
... it is a new situation: some W3C work to be submitted to OASIS
... a member like LRC submits this to OASIS
... no need to have w3c membership, OASIS membership is sufficient
yves: for tests - would be
possible to have input with ITS markers, output in XLIFF
... process and have same kind of output like we had with ITS test suite
felix: makes sense
yves: so we need a set of rules and spell them out into a rule file
renat: could we use okapi framework for file conversion purposes?
renat: okapi could convert almost any format into XLIFF
renat: it could develop or extend existing converters to support ITS
david: Okapi is a reference
... having more than input + output files is probably not realistic
felix: Okapi provides low level parsing with ITS "events" but not "real" implementations for all data categories
david: we hope for other low
level implementattions that should create the same
... we need a good selection of stakeholders in dublin
... to get buy in of the people
felix: could provide xslt for test suite, but not for real processing
david: would be good for test
... bryan should be able to work on something similar
felix: any requirements in terms of numbers of implementations?
david: we put test suite in our
... but it is not even an OASIS requirement
... it is a statement of use, it is up to the TC to decide what level of verification is needed
... having input + output files is the minimum I think
felix: what is the timeline for the input + output files and how about the location?
david: we have SVN
... oasis admin are OK with links to SVN
... next tc call will be next week - we then should talk about new template for XLIFF 2.1
... will have a different svn than XLIFF 2.0
... about the time frame: this will be another session in feisgiltt
... Kevin will propose an early release schedule - to be discussed next month
... implementations should be ready by November, file in place no later than september
yves: the more comments we get on
the mapping the better
... the parts that map to modules, e.g. size and constraints
[discussion about storage size in ITS2 and how it maps to XLIFF2]
david: yves, any other things you think need input except storage size?
yves: yes, the standoff things,
... also implementation feedback
<fsasaki_> david: conceptual aspect of "Translate" - what is it for?
<fsasaki_> .. yves has fallback solution: you can extract non translatable text into code
<fsasaki_> .. not sure about this: we are mixing up things
<fsasaki_> .. if s.t. is natural language not translatable for business reasons it should not go into codes
<fsasaki_> .. it should be marked up as translate=no or not go into the extracted content
<fsasaki_> dave: the ITS "Translate" does not say anything why we annotate it
<fsasaki_> .. in XLIFF it is complicated since the extraction process says s.t. about this as well
<fsasaki_> david: depends on the semantics of the underlying format
<fsasaki_> .. e.g. in some formats you have assumptions like: markup is not translatable
<fsasaki_> dave: for ITS I think it only applies to the textual content
<fsasaki_> .. would not apply to markup unless it is textual content of attribute
<fsasaki_> .. maybe ok to have code extraction fallback
<fsasaki_> felix: besides okapi who would implement the mapping?
<fsasaki_> yves: leroy I assume
<fsasaki_> david: bryan is esp. interested in the CMS scenario
<fsasaki_> .. he would be interested in that issue, esp. DITA based
dave: we are still using mapping for mapping to RDF
dave: useful for advancing this
... for advancing ontology + test suite
... we could do that in LIDER
... that will help to motivate people
... same for qLabel library
... they only highlight 1-2 data categories
... but some are good XML>RDF data categories
felix: no need to publish a note, we can also just point to the ontology and document it
yves: you get a lot of data - how to make use of it is hard
felix: working with various data sets - how is the impact?
yves: babelnet was mostly useful
for the translators it seems
... maybe that is the case with other data sets too - they use same linked data?
dave: there are some data set
differences, or different data clean up processes
... good to hear from people like yves: what is more useful?
... how to decide which one works well under which circumstances
... we are close to feisgiltt now - for yves a good opportunity to met linked data guys and talk to localisation people too
... people don't want to be in too many groups, but if we track a specific issue it'd helped
felix reports on ITS metadata in json discussion held at the workshop
dave: there was a discussion at
the end of the workshop - doing e.g. inline markup thing would
be a horror in json
... json-ld mapping from the ITS ontology could help
yves: did not try yet to put
anything in json
... not sure - this is really like a transport format
david: think it would have traction in industry
dave: there is two use
... one is internationalisation of apps that use json
... example: prototype cat tool having xliff+its working in the browser
... from a web developers point of view, it would be more natural to have everything in json
felix: so having ITS > XLIFF mapping and then that represented as json?
dave: yes - and there is i18n requirements for apps that use json
david: yes, that is different use cases
felix: anything else to report about the workshop?
dave: three interesting groups of
... the wikipedia translation group
[see slides now here http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/2014-madrid/slides/sharma.pdf ]
dave: also interesting: publication office discussion
dave: they will start publishing
... they are interesting in understanding good ways to leverage ITS > RDF mapping
... and then discussion how to get access to "deep web" data
felix: would hope that wikipedia would use ITS (without necessarily showing the markup to the author / editor)
dave: also libraries like qlabel help to show value of ITS
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: fsasaki Inferring Scribes: fsasaki Present: DaveLewis dF felix garyLefman philr renat yves Regrets: christian ankit Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014May/0003.html Got date from IRC log name: 14 May 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-i18nits-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]