12:28:45 RRSAgent has joined #eo 12:28:45 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/02-eo-irc 12:28:47 RRSAgent, make logs world 12:28:47 Zakim has joined #eo 12:28:49 Zakim, this will be 3694 12:28:49 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 12:28:50 Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference 12:28:50 Date: 02 May 2014 12:29:19 WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started 12:29:26 + +1.615.417.aaaa 12:29:26 paulschantz has joined #eo 12:30:19 +Sharron 12:30:53 dboudreau has joined #eo 12:31:24 +Sylvie_Duchateau 12:31:31 +Shawn 12:31:50 +[IPcaller] 12:31:52 Sylvie has joined #eo 12:32:06 zakim, ipcalller is dboudreau 12:32:06 sorry, dboudreau, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcalller' 12:32:19 Sharron has joined #eo 12:32:37 zakim, mute me 12:32:37 Sylvie_Duchateau should now be muted 12:33:19 Zakim, aaaa is me 12:33:19 +AnnaBelle; got it 12:33:22 zakim, [IPcaller] is dboudreau 12:33:22 +dboudreau; got it 12:33:33 Helle has joined #eo 12:35:17 +PaulSchantz 12:36:50 +helle 12:41:31 zakim, mute me 12:41:31 helle should now be muted 12:42:35 Goal: Get all issues this week. Eric review & update next week. Discuss any open issues on 9 May. Eric prepare final draft. Ready for EOWG publication approval week of 12 May. 12:43:50 Good point Denis 12:45:24 Send draft link change on github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/pull/38 12:45:57 Things to fix on https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/ - 1) Second bullet in content still reads “ambiguous” while the nav now says “irregular”. 2) The “Captions & Summary” - 4th bullet - has a .html extension, breaking the link 12:49:41 Denis - I've sent in fix for #2 - it's actually not the .html 12:49:55 Irregular tables example #1 to me should be an example for simple tables, without the scope attributes. 12:50:43 zakim, unmute me 12:50:43 Sylvie_Duchateau should no longer be muted 12:51:08 zakim, unmute me 12:51:08 helle should no longer be muted 12:51:24 zakim, mute me 12:51:24 helle should now be muted 12:53:01 OPEN ISSUE: in https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/ambiguous/ example 1 - does this really need scope? ACTION: create table w/ scope and test with browsers. 12:53:52 Sent proposed text link change to pull: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/pull/39 12:58:23 -helle 13:05:43 * Simple (link) 13:05:47 * Complex 13:05:57 ** Irregular (link) 13:06:07 ** Multi-level (link) 13:06:54 +1 13:07:02 +1 13:07:07 +1 13:07:17 +1 13:10:40 RESOLUTION: To the Table Concepts page, add mini table images showing where the headers are in example tables. (Denis can help! ;-) 13:11:29 CHANGE: see above organization with Irregular & Multi-level under Complex 13:19:45 For example in the second table below "Closed" is meaningless on its own, but makes sense when it is associated 13:19:45 with the time (which is the row header) and the date (which is the column header). 13:20:49 with the time (the row header) and the date (\the column header). 13:21:01 with the time (the row header) and the date (the column header). 13:25:04 menus: 13:25:08 * Simple 13:25:14 * Complex: Irregular 13:25:23 *Comlex: Multi-level 13:25:34 ??? 13:25:39 or 13:25:44 * Simple 13:25:46 *Irregular 13:25:51 *Multi-level 13:26:06 my vote goes for proposal #1 13:28:30 “…to describe the overall topic of a table, and summariesto provide…” shoud be changed to “…to describe the overall topic of a table, and summary to provide…” 13:28:52 question: formal or informal? (contractions) 13:29:05 +1 to informal 13:29:23 +1 to informal 13:29:30 +1 to informal 13:29:48 AB notes that most of our other material is quite formal 13:31:04 would be nice to make the tutorials a little less formal, just to make a clear distinction between these documents and the actual specifications/techniques 13:38:22 Here's what it looks like: 13:38:23 For more complex tables, explicit associations may be needed using `scope` or `id` and `headers` attributes, so that they can be interpreted by assistive technologies. 13:43:36 QUETIONS/ISSUE: Tables Concept page. How to make tables accessible section. 2nd paragraph. ("The structural coding can also be...") First sentence not make sense. Second sentence is a separate idea and maybe should be separate paragraph? 13:44:43 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:44:43 On the phone I see AnnaBelle, Sharron, Sylvie_Duchateau, Shawn, dboudreau, PaulSchantz 13:44:55 or, are we talking about both css presentation and html markup and how both of these affect how the end user actually receives the informaiton, based on the tools they’re using and their (in)ability to receive the content in its default presentation? 13:45:04 No 13:48:22 http://denisboudreau.org/stuff/eowg/scopedtable-example.html 13:58:12 OVERALL: Use the examples to provide specific examples to explain points. For example, in Irregular Tables, first example: "The scope value row is used on each cell to ensure that it cannot be mistaken as a header for other cells in the same column." -> "The scope value row is used on each cell to ensure that it cannot be mistaken as a header for other cells in the same column -- for 13:58:13 example, in the example table below, Belgium should not be mistaken as the heading for France, Holland, etc." 13:58:42 Anna Belle: would be great to have example of large, responsive data tables 14:03:15 CHANGE: Irregular page. Example 2 is unusual. please put it at the end. 14:05:58 Irregular page: Example 3 "Table with headers spanning multiple rows or columns". "In this example, some of the row header cells span two or more rows of data cells and one column header spans three columns." -> "In this example, some of the header cells span multiple rows or columns; for example, the Zodiac row header spans 3 rows, and the Sizes available column header spans 3 columns." 14:06:15 "In the table below, some of the header cells span multiple rows or columns; for example, the Zodiac row header spans 3 rows, and the Sizes available column header spans 3 columns." 14:11:02 In multi-level example 1 seeing horizontal scrollbar 14:11:13 +1 getting rid of column 4 14:11:29 +1 14:11:34 +1 to getting rid of column 4 (complex table - example 1) 14:14:46 +1 to getting rid of column 4. Unnecessary. 14:15:37 MINOR: In multi-level page, I'm seeing "Full code for Example 1: Table with multiple column headers in each column (new window)" - missing image? also, that's not on the other pages. 14:17:38 denis: complex table that is missing is having 2 or 3 levels ... @@ 14:17:53 denis: don't see diff between ex 1 & 2 14:19:59 denis agrees important to mention idea of breaking up complex table into separate tables. AB says some data folks will not want to brak them up. 14:20:39 denis & AB: need to have a much more complex example 14:24:21 s/ denis: don't see diff between ex 1 & 2/ / 14:29:59 meet again Monday 1:00C/2:00C 14:30:08 wiki page for tables comments https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback/Tables 14:31:17 meet again Monday 1:00C/2:00E 14:31:22 -Sharron 14:31:24 -PaulSchantz 14:31:26 -Shawn 14:31:28 -Sylvie_Duchateau 14:31:30 -AnnaBelle 14:31:31 -dboudreau 14:31:31 WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended 14:31:31 Attendees were +1.615.417.aaaa, Sharron, Sylvie_Duchateau, Shawn, AnnaBelle, dboudreau, PaulSchantz, helle 16:22:47 trackbot, end meeting 16:22:47 Zakim, list attendees 16:22:47 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 16:22:55 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:22:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/02-eo-minutes.html trackbot 16:22:56 RRSAgent, bye 16:22:56 I see no action items 16:41:29 RRSAgent has joined #eo 16:41:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/02-eo-irc 16:41:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:41:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/02-eo-minutes.html shawn 20:24:42 Zakim has left #eo