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11:58:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/30-csvw-irc
11:59:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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11:59:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be CSVW
11:59:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
11:59:04 <trackbot> Meeting: CSV on the Web Working Group Teleconference
11:59:04 <trackbot> Date: 30 April 2014
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12:00:51 <JeniT> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_2014-04-30
12:01:05 <Zakim> DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM has now started
12:01:12 <Zakim> +ericstephan
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12:02:05 <Zakim> + +1.410.764.aaaa
12:02:15 <Zakim> - +1.410.764.aaaa
12:02:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:02:29 <PhilA_> zakim, ipcaller is me
12:02:29 <Zakim> +PhilA_; got it
12:02:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
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12:03:28 <JeniT> :)
12:03:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:03:58 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
12:03:59 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
12:05:16 <ericstephan> Thank you PhilA :-)
12:05:58 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
12:06:04 <PhilA> scribeNick: PhilA
12:06:18 <PhilA> JeniT: Won't approve last week's minutes as there are so few of us here
12:06:49 <PhilA> topic: UCR
12:07:03 <PhilA> JeniT: Are you, Eric, standing in for the editors
12:07:11 <PhilA> ericstephan: I'll give a bit of background on what we did last week
12:07:16 <Zakim> +??P14
12:07:27 <PhilA> .. before taking it back to the e-mail list
12:07:31 <jumbrich> zakim, ?P14 is me
12:07:31 <Zakim> sorry, jumbrich, I do not recognize a party named '?P14'
12:07:38 <ericstephan> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/use-cases-and-requirements/csvw-requirements-notes.csv
12:07:55 <PhilA> ericstephan: Last week we were asked to evaluate the requirements
12:08:14 <PhilA> ericstephan: Jeremy has been very busy so it was David who took the lead and starting working through the requirements
12:08:31 <PhilA> ... I took a second pass. trying to work out which ones are more broadly accepted.
12:08:33 <JeniT> CSV ftw ;)
12:08:35 <PhilA> ... I made a table
12:09:05 <PhilA> ericstephan: Jeremy also made some comments - all of these are in the table
12:09:38 <PhilA> ericstephan: Tim made some last minute changes/additions as well
12:09:55 <PhilA> ... also in the e-mail exchange there were further considerations
12:10:15 <PhilA> ... I was looking for ones that we blanket accept and which ones may not be so universally accepted
12:10:30 <PhilA> ... david was looking for requires that can be merged. Jeremy did the same
12:10:54 <PhilA> ... Ivan brought some interesting comments. Should we be looking for blanket acceptance or should we try and categorise the ones we have
12:11:13 <jumbrich> JeniT, behind jumbrich is Jürgen Umbrich from WU Vienna
12:11:13 <PhilA> ... then we began talking about whether res should be mandatory or optional
12:11:14 <JeniT> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2014Apr/0110.html and thread
12:11:41 <PhilA> ericstephan: Then, Jeni said that mandatory reqs mean that any implementation would need to do all of them
12:12:01 <PhilA> ... JeniT said these are just reqs from the use cases and we should keep it at that level
12:12:09 <PhilA> ... I think we can iterate on these questions
12:12:34 <PhilA> ... how do we vote on the reqs? By groups? By individual reqs in a telecon or e-mail?
12:13:08 <PhilA> JeniT: In terms of process, I'd like to operate by consensus. Votes are only useful to highlight those that need furtehr discussion
12:13:31 <PhilA> JeniT: I suggest if we have a list of those that are in and these are out - then people can raise objections
12:13:41 <PhilA> .. we just then worry about ones that people think are in the wrong bucket
12:13:49 <PhilA> s/../.../
12:14:12 <PhilA> JeniT: I managed to go through them before the call. Would it be better for me to give feedback here or on the list
12:14:28 <PhilA> ericstephan: Might better on the list so we get more people involved
12:14:37 <PhilA> JeniT: OK, I'll do that. There are a few where I have ideas
12:14:55 <PhilA> ... some look like reqs for the tabular data model - maybe that's a category
12:15:41 <PhilA> JeniT: I think it's good to have reqs for each of the docs.
12:15:53 <PhilA> JeniT: I'll try and write an e-mail about all that
12:16:08 <PhilA> ... really good work. Thank you Eric and the other editors
12:16:14 <PhilA> ericstephan: So do we let this roll for another week?
12:16:23 <PhilA> ... and then see if we can come to consensus?
12:16:44 <PhilA> JeniT: I suggests that we come back next week with the reqs organised in buckets in the doc and ask for approavl of that
12:17:08 <PhilA> ... and if we need discussion then we can do it after that. We;re hoping for another publicatiin in about 3 weeks' time
12:17:12 <PhilA> q+
12:17:16 <JeniT> ack PhilA
12:17:18 <PhilA> ack
12:17:44 <ericstephan> q+
12:18:31 <PhilA> PhilA: I'm half way through wriitng my use case
12:18:34 <JeniT> ack ericstephan
12:18:37 <PhilA> ... going from metadata to data
12:18:44 <PhilA> ... I'll have it on the wiki this week
12:19:13 <Zakim> -JeniT
12:19:22 <PhilA> ericstephan: I did add some new use cases to our git, the one from Jacob. So we have two or three more UCs beyond Phil's that need to be added
12:19:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:20:32 <PhilA> JeniT: And Eric, you're going to add HL7 as well - I know there are more to add
12:20:44 <PhilA> ericstephan: I expect to have them all added this week.
12:20:51 <PhilA> JeniT: Anythign else from anyone?
12:21:01 <PhilA> topic: Generating RDF
12:21:15 <PhilA> AndyS: The 3 of us met - me, Ivan and Gregg.
12:21:22 <PhilA> ... I think we got a clear picture of what we want to do.
12:21:42 <PhilA> ... there will be an explicit phase around cleaning data so it more accurately conforms to the tab data model
12:21:50 <ericstephan> s/Jacob/Yakov/
12:21:52 <PhilA> ... then basic mapping like this col is an integer
12:22:06 <PhilA> .. then a template-driven transformation which may be purely string to string
12:22:25 <PhilA> ... thought we'd add more content around that
12:22:32 <Zakim> -jumbrich
12:22:36 <PhilA> ... good focus for the work for the foreseeable future
12:22:43 <PhilA> JeniT: On the cleaning data front...
12:22:50 <Zakim> +??P14
12:22:52 <PhilA> ... I thinkwe tackled that a little in the model development
12:22:59 <jumbrich> zakim, ??P14 is me
12:22:59 <Zakim> +jumbrich; got it
12:23:04 <JeniT> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#parsing
12:23:06 <PhilA> ... there's a section of parsing files into the tab data model
12:23:11 <PhilA> ... that's not an RDF thing
12:23:19 <PhilA> ... it's needed for any kind of understanding for tab data
12:23:31 <PhilA> ... we also had some push back on that section/work
12:23:55 <PhilA> ... at W3C level as it's not part of our charter to define parsing of tab data so I'd focus on the latetr portions of what you're talking about
12:24:14 <PhilA> AndyS: We're not planning on writing anything about cleaning, just that you need to know the model
12:24:34 <PhilA> ... getting your character set right etc. is not part of this - we'll start after that
12:24:42 <PhilA> ... what we need is a formal def of the Tabular Data Model
12:24:50 <PhilA> ... is that in this doc or somewhere else/
12:25:08 <JeniT> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/#annotated-tabular-data-model
12:25:08 <PhilA> JeniT: In what way is the def of the Core Tab Data model and annotated def not clear?
12:25:26 <PhilA> AndyS: I'd like it to say that a table is a sequence of rows etc. More precise definition
12:25:57 <PhilA> ... think we need a more textual description. at the moment it says 'data is held in a table' but doesn't say what a table is
12:26:14 <PhilA> JeniT: Would you be prepared to add yourself as an editor and then add any formal defs that are needed
12:26:38 <PhilA> AndyS: I think that's the best place for that def. I thinkw e could write the def and then worry about which doc it goes in
12:27:02 <PhilA> JeniT: I think it would be good if you could include that in the model doc for now - and we can think about audience etc. afterwards
12:27:14 <PhilA> AndyS: Might be better to split some of the more discursive stuff from the formal
12:27:20 <PhilA> JeniT: Are you willing to do that?
12:27:24 <PhilA> AndyS: Yes, if I can find the time
12:27:56 <PhilA> JeniT: I'm happy to put in the work, but I don't see a prob with the informality - clearly you do so can you fix it pls?
12:28:18 <PhilA> AndyS: One other thing... Gregg is travelling a lot in the coming weeks which will slow us down a little
12:28:29 <JeniT> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2014Apr/0084.html
12:28:38 <PhilA> JeniT: After last week I was asked to write a bit more about...
12:28:42 <PhilA> ... (see mail)
12:29:08 <PhilA> JeniT: My feeling was that most of us are on the same page in terms of how we want to pitch things
12:29:28 <PhilA> ... but AndyS may hve more to say?
12:29:48 <PhilA> AndyS: There's nothing in there I felt was wrong
12:29:57 <PhilA> ... the devil is in the detail - what's a 2 or a 3
12:30:09 <PhilA> ... different ecosystems put diff spin on things
12:30:32 <PhilA> ... in publishing, assumption is that XSLT is available. Not so much in JSON- centric
12:30:45 <PhilA> ... we'll see how far we get with the templating approach
12:30:57 <PhilA> ... I suspect that's where the bulk of the work will be
12:31:13 <PhilA> ... we should be able to make valuable input for JSON and XML
12:31:31 <PhilA> ... some things like stops and starts don't apply to RDF etc.
12:31:42 <PhilA> JeniT: Anything else to raise on RDF mapping?
12:31:55 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
12:31:58 <JeniT> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/
12:32:02 <PhilA> topic: Tabular Data Model
12:32:21 <PhilA> JeniT: I've not made the progress I was hoping to make on whether we support embedding of metadata
12:32:47 <PhilA> ... I'm not sure that any of the UCs highlight that as a req and it may add complexity where it isn't necessary
12:33:22 <PhilA> ... so I'm thinking of writing to the WG to get agreement that, apart from col heading, all metadata is in a separate file
12:33:38 <PhilA> JeniT: Again, my aim is to have a new version of the model doc in 3 weeks' time
12:33:45 <PhilA> topic: Metadata Vocabulary
12:33:47 <JeniT> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/metadata/
12:33:57 <PhilA> JeniT: This morning I published an Editor's Draft...
12:34:21 <PhilA> ... it takes the JSON package and JSCON schema from OKF et al and turning it into W3C style but without really editing the content
12:34:29 <PhilA> ... there's a little bit of motiviation in the intro
12:34:34 <JeniT> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/metadata/#introduction
12:34:46 <PhilA> ... showing the kind of thing we're aiming for, whay metadata is important
12:34:54 <PhilA> s/whay/why/
12:35:07 <PhilA> ... I've got some issues I want to take to Rufus anad have proper discussion here next week
12:35:19 <PhilA> ... one thing it highlights is the need for a separate data definition
12:35:39 <PhilA> ... and annotations at individual cell and row level - this isn't handled at all in data Pacakaging
12:35:49 <PhilA> ... so there is some progress on this
12:35:59 <PhilA> JeniT: Any questions/issues?
12:36:17 <PhilA> JeniT: OAB?
12:37:15 <ericstephan> Thank you!
12:37:22 <Zakim> -JeniT
12:37:26 <Zakim> -PhilA_
12:37:27 <Zakim> -ericstephan
12:37:30 <Zakim> -jumbrich
12:37:31 <Zakim> -AndyS
12:37:31 <Zakim> DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM has ended
12:37:31 <Zakim> Attendees were ericstephan, +1.410.764.aaaa, PhilA_, JeniT, AndyS, jumbrich
12:37:32 <PhilA> OK, we'll call it a day there
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12:37:38 <PhilA> trackbot, end meeeting
12:37:38 <trackbot> Sorry, PhilA, I don't understand 'trackbot, end meeeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
12:37:44 <PhilA> trackbot, close meeeting
12:37:44 <trackbot> Sorry, PhilA, I don't understand 'trackbot, close meeeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
12:38:01 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
12:38:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/30-csvw-minutes.html PhilA
12:38:45 <PhilA> chair: Jeni
12:39:15 <PhilA> regrets: DanBri, Davide
12:39:19 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
12:39:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/30-csvw-minutes.html PhilA
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