14:56:02 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 14:56:02 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/29-hcls-irc 14:56:12 rrsagent, make logs public 14:56:27 Meeting: HCLS 14:56:30 Claude has joined #hcls 14:56:44 zakim, code? 14:56:45 sorry, dbooth, I don't know what conference this is 14:56:54 zakim, this will be hcls 14:56:54 ok, dbooth; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 14:57:01 zakim, code? 14:57:01 the conference code is 4257 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dbooth 14:58:27 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started 14:58:33 +DBooth 15:02:08 +Neda 15:03:05 +[IPcaller] 15:03:41 + +1.978.794.aaaa 15:04:09 zakim, aaaa is Tony 15:04:09 +Tony; got it 15:05:15 Topic: FHIR ontology by Claude 15:05:49 claude: Got resources represented. Approach is not very different from how FHIR does things. But want Tony's feedback on terminology. 15:06:25 ... FHIR models using codable concepts, which make sense in XML. But in OWL it may not be ideal. 15:07:01 tony: agree. a lot of languages don't support instances belonging to multiple classes. 15:07:25 ... so codable concept is a shortcut instead of saying that the thing is a member of a class. 15:07:47 ... e.g., an allergy instance is a member of the class representing the snomed class. 15:08:02 ... An allergy is a response to a substance. 15:09:05 tony: will be at HL7 meeting. 15:09:19 mike_d has joined #hcls 15:09:27 claude: maybe do something informal there. 15:09:43 ... want to talk to Graham and Lloyd. 15:09:48 +Mike_Denny 15:09:49 tony: suggest arch review board. 15:10:30 ... I made a presentation last time on using supplemental schemas. i'm very concerned about HL7 inventing languages all the time. 15:10:55 ... I'm looking for the test tools for whether a payload is conformant, and they aren't there yet. 15:11:05 zakim, who is making noise? 15:11:17 dbooth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (55%), Tony (24%) 15:11:58 -Tony 15:12:21 zakim, temporarily mute IPcaller 15:12:21 [IPcaller] should now be muted 15:12:28 +Tony 15:12:37 [IPcaller] should now be unmuted again 15:12:48 zakim, temporarily mute me 15:12:48 DBooth should now be muted 15:13:04 DBooth should now be unmuted again 15:13:47 zakim, mute Mike_Denny 15:13:47 Mike_Denny should now be muted 15:13:59 mike, it is you :) 15:14:19 mike, you can unmute yourself by typing: zakim, unmute me 15:14:37 mike, are you seeing this IRC? 15:15:27 zakim, unmute Mike_Denny 15:15:27 Mike_Denny should no longer be muted 15:16:26 zakim, help? 15:16:26 Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help. 15:16:28 Some of the commands I know are: 15:16:28 xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx 15:16:28 if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted 15:16:28 xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx 15:16:28 I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx 15:16:28 xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group 15:16:30 xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx 15:16:30 who's here? - lists the participants on the phone 15:16:30 who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted 15:16:30 mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#) 15:16:30 unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61# 15:16:31 is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present 15:16:31 list conferences - reports the active conferences 15:16:32 this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx 15:16:32 excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel 15:16:32 I last learned something new on $Date: 2013-03-03 19:18:47 $ 15:17:05 -Mike_Denny 15:17:28 tony: How do you represent codable concept? 15:17:46 claude: code is an instance, with a unique URI, and a value 15:18:07 tony: that instance is not a member of a class? 15:18:09 mike_denny has joined #hcls 15:18:22 claude: it's an instance of a code class. 15:18:31 +Mike_Denny 15:18:48 tony: so you're modeling the fhir structure, like josh did. that's very different from how i did it. 15:18:58 ... I say that URI is actually a class. 15:19:39 claude: There are two ways you can represent this relationship. one is if you want to encode the way FHIR does then you can use the type of the class. 15:19:54 ... diabetes melitis concept in the SNOMED hierarchy. 15:20:19 tony: that's how ITSDU extracts classes out of snomed. there are not things in snomed -- it's purely type. 15:20:41 claude: then i can say this thing is an instance. 15:20:49 tony: that's how i did it. 15:21:10 ... what i've just done a few days ago is a sparql query that can detect a drug allergy interaction potential. 15:21:43 ... Want to see if an allergy to a substance, classified as snomed type, is higher or equal to the class of the drug you're going to take. 15:22:03 ... penicillin is not a class, it's an anonymous instance. 15:22:33 ... so in the same class you see a medication and an allergy in the same class and to detect the match -- the conflict. 15:23:50 ... so you can say the allergy is very general, and penicillin is in the subclass of that class. 15:24:31 ... Then i do a filter saying the class of this equals the class of that. that allows the snomed hierarchy to do these things. 15:24:55 claude: That's the problem of the division between model and terminlogy. 15:25:16 tony: I have fhir ont importing snomed ont, and then my instance ont imports the fhir type ont. 15:25:43 claude: would be great to meet at HL7. 15:25:54 tony: I have a presentation ready, but not sure when and how it will be given. 15:26:33 ... The started off with 'could we do a profile in FHIR that would capture DL semantics?' 15:27:08 ... Then I realized you don't want to mix the two formats. Do then I looked at a DL attachment, to hold all the FHIR information in the DL representation. 15:27:43 david: What time arriving on Sunday? 15:28:05 tony: about 5, staying at hampton inn 15:29:28 +mscottm 15:30:48 claude: i started where josh started, but took a slightly different approach, but intending to converge. 15:31:07 ... but not as set-oriented as your approach. 15:31:18 tony: there may be a transformation possible. 15:31:42 ... Maybe two onts: one of the FHIR record itself, and then one that is what you want to use. 15:31:55 ... Would be interesting to explore. 15:32:58 david: End game: adopt a standard FHIR ont. 15:34:10 tony: national cancer already has an ont based on ISO 11179. Don't know what they're using yet, but made major investments in 11179. Some overlaps FHIR profile. being discussed: should the profile align with i? 15:34:30 ... But some orgs have already make a big investment in RDF. I think ONC is also interested in this. 15:34:51 claude: maybe just propose it as an HL7 project. 15:35:15 ACTION: Claude to find out how to propose FHIR ontology as an HL7 project 15:36:16 tony: I've just been reading a book by Azamat ___. He says there is a universal ont. 15:36:41 ... Called UFO. Concerns about whether this may be too big of a waterfall. 15:38:09 claude: fhir is not consistent. Each resource is being developed by different groups, and their approaches are differnt. 15:38:25 ... VMR and QDM 15:39:19 tony: it's declaring local variables that are different from each other but they look the same. 15:39:54 ... Semantics may be different, and bindings to terminologies likely to be different. Do they inherit from something further up that makes them consistent? 15:40:17 Mike: No, there's no property conservation at all, and that's intentional. They were trying to avoid the RIM formalities. 15:40:40 ... So it's a big problem semantically. I don't think you can endure that hodge-podge. 15:41:12 tony: NIEM (Natl Info Exchange Model) is XML based and goes the other way: all properties are globally declared. 15:41:24 ... And that causes problems also. 15:41:49 ... Some things should inherit from a general concept. 15:42:17 ... So the flexibility of it is interesting, but now you need to get a well-formed ontology out of it. 15:42:29 ... i was happy to get a drug allergy conflict out of it. 15:43:02 ... There's a conf 'KR for HC' in Europe. It's part of a bigger conference. They're taking paper submissions now. 15:43:16 ... In Vienna. 15:43:20 http://banzai-deim.urv.net/events/KR4HC-2014/ 15:45:12 tony: if you write sparql to detect something, the turtle tells you what you're doing to do in FHIR to get all the stuff. So turtle becomes a langauge for a set of FHIR orchestration. 15:46:10 -[IPcaller] 15:47:14 Topic: Next week 15:48:18 -Neda 15:48:20 -Tony 15:48:20 -Mike_Denny 15:48:26 thanks for the great notes David! 15:48:26 david: may not be able to do a call next week, due to HL7 conference 15:48:54 -mscottm 15:49:07 ... Those of at HL7 meeting will meet up in person though. Exchange contact info by email. 15:49:15 ADJOURNED 15:49:25 chair: dbooth 15:49:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:49:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/29-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 15:49:41 -DBooth 15:49:42 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 15:49:42 Attendees were DBooth, Neda, [IPcaller], +1.978.794.aaaa, Tony, Mike_Denny, mscottm 15:50:09 Present: Claude, DBooth, Tony_Mallia, Mike_Denny 15:50:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:50:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/29-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 16:00:40 s/mike, it is you :)// 16:00:49 s/mike, you can unmute yourself by typing: zakim, unmute me// 16:00:58 s/mike, are you seeing this IRC?// 16:01:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:01:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/29-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 16:06:12 egonw has joined #HCLS 16:13:20 s/mike, it is you :)// 16:14:30 s|s/mike, it is you :)//|| 16:14:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:14:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/29-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 16:33:41 egonw has joined #HCLS 17:31:08 Zakim has left #hcls 18:26:01 mscottm has joined #hcls 18:45:09 egonw has joined #HCLS 19:28:19 Claude1 has joined #hcls 19:36:57 mscottm has joined #hcls 21:23:44 Claude has joined #hcls 22:53:38 mscottm has joined #hcls