13:39:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
13:39:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/25-mobile-a11y-irc
13:39:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:39:12 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
13:39:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
13:39:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
13:39:15 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:39:15 <trackbot> Date: 25 April 2014
13:40:03 <KimPatch> chair: Kimberly_Patch
13:46:17 <KimPatch> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/0025.html
13:47:30 <KimPatch> regrets+ Kathleen_Anderson, Gavin, Kathleen_Wahlbin
13:48:09 <KimPatch> agenda+ Jan will take us through his analysis of the BBC guidelines
13:48:11 <KimPatch> agenda+ Brainstorm on responsive design
13:48:12 <KimPatch> agenda+ Next Steps – next meeting will be Friday April 18
13:51:48 <KimPatch> Agenda?
13:52:40 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started
13:52:47 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
13:55:45 <KimPatch> regrets+ Alan_Smith
14:00:28 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
14:01:37 <Zakim> +Jeanne
14:01:39 <Jan_> Jan_ has joined #mobile-a11y
14:01:50 <Jan_> zakim, code?
14:01:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 6283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan_
14:02:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:03:42 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
14:04:34 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
14:04:39 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
14:04:45 <jon_avila> zakim, I am GVoice
14:04:45 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate Jon_avila with [GVoice]
14:05:55 <Zakim> +Detlev
14:07:10 <Detlev> scribe:Detlev
14:07:55 <Detlev> scribe: Detlev
14:07:57 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:07:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/25-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:08:14 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
14:08:14 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Jan will take us through his analysis of the BBC guidelines" taken up [from KimPatch]
14:08:17 <jeanne> rrsagent, make logs public
14:08:43 <jeanne> present+ Kim, Jeanne, Jan, Jon, Detlev
14:09:04 <Jan_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/0008.html
14:09:13 <Jan_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/0007.html
14:10:26 <Jan_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/att-0008/BBCMobileGuide10_comparison_with_WCAG2UAAG2-rev2.html
14:13:44 <Detlev> Kim: Jan walking though Comparison BBC - WCAG table
14:14:52 <Detlev> Jan: Standard operating system alerts must be used where available - not covered in WCAG but in UAAG
14:15:52 <Detlev> Jan: Touch events must only be triggered when touch is removed from a control  - not covered there might be a future touch interface technique for that
14:15:53 <jon_avila> q+
14:16:06 <jon_avila> zakim, I am GVoice
14:16:06 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate Jon_avila with [GVoice]
14:16:11 <jon_avila> q?
14:17:18 <Detlev> Detlev: Question on place of touch interaction in WCAG hierarch<
14:17:24 <jon_avila> q?
14:17:42 <Detlev> Jan: indieUI forcuses on that - in this case its related to focussing SC
14:18:28 <Detlev> Jon: This requirement may have exceptions, not intended for screen reader use
14:19:22 <Detlev> Jon: requirment addresses users without fine motor control
14:19:42 <jon_avila> q?
14:20:12 <Detlev> Jan asking whether SC 3.2.1 On focus is the right place for touch related techniques
14:20:39 <Detlev> Jon: Was originally thinking of 2.1.1 keyboard but not the ideal place
14:21:25 <Detlev> Jan: So either find a place within scheme of SCs or say it's outside WCAG hierarchy
14:21:59 <Detlev> Jan: better out it in and wait to updated WCAG
14:22:39 <Detlev> Jan: Touch events must only be triggered when touch is removed from a control  - was removed frm WCAG 2.0 - still in in BBC guidelines
14:23:03 <Detlev> Jon: Maybe an issue in some markets (lack of modern kit?)
14:23:49 <Detlev> Jon: There are some SCR Techniques - we need to ensure that these are supported on mobile browsers with AT
14:24:39 <jeanne> I agree that we should not include this requirement to remove Javascript.
14:25:17 <jeanne> q+ to say that is not an accessibility issue
14:25:47 <Jan_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Mini#JavaScript_support
14:27:12 <Detlev> Jeanne: Javascript support is not a direct accessibility issue
14:28:01 <jon_avila> +1 with Jeanne
14:28:16 <Detlev> Jeanne: So much negative views of accessibility in the developer community that requirng suport of non-JS would be foolish
14:28:25 <KimPatch> +1
14:28:37 <Detlev> Jeanne: Nearly everything is based on JS these days...
14:28:42 <Detlev> General agreement
14:28:43 <Jan_> http://trends.builtwith.com/docinfo/Javascript
14:29:41 <Detlev> Opera mini has a high level of JS suport
14:30:12 <Detlev> Jan: "Audio must not play automatically unless the user is made aware this is happening or a pause/stop button is provided" - WCAG similar
14:31:37 <Detlev> Jan: "Metadata should be provided for media" - points to a technique for 1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded):
14:32:15 <Detlev> Jon: There are other places within WCAG for metadata (in 1.1.1)
14:32:40 <jeanne> s/suport of non-JS would be foolish/requiring non-JS would be setting us backward.
14:32:45 <jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/text-equiv-all.html
14:33:26 <Jan_> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/text-equiv-all.html#non-text-contentdef
14:34:25 <Detlev> Jan: will change/ include in mapping
14:35:21 <Detlev> Jan: BBC: Recommendations more related to usability, less to a11y
14:37:13 <Detlev> Jon: The point was to determine where within the WCAG scheme one could slot in BBC techniques
14:38:00 <Detlev> Jon: Captions weren't perhaps covered because they are linked to different req.
14:38:52 <Detlev> Jon: Bypass blocks proably not covered because of the smaller screen on mobile
14:39:36 <Detlev> Multiple ways probablly not covered because mobl apps not considered a collection of pages
14:40:34 <jeanne> q+ for background of what we are doing with the gap analysis
14:40:41 <Detlev> Jan: BBC guidelines cannot claim the same universality as WCAG - corporate perspective
14:41:13 <Detlev> Jon: Guidelines good, can be used as gudance, not adopted directly
14:41:52 <Detlev> Kim: Not sure whether BBC has been asked to 'donate' techniques
14:42:23 <Detlev> Jeanne: Gap analysis serves to identify need for additional techniques
14:43:15 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
14:43:15 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Detlev
14:43:29 <KimPatch> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Responsive_Design#5_April_2014_Discussion:_Responsive_Design
14:43:41 <jon_avila> q?
14:43:41 <jeanne> ack jeann
14:43:42 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that is not an accessibility issue and to discuss background of what we are doing with the gap analysis
14:43:42 <jon_avila> q-
14:43:45 <jon_avila> q?
14:43:48 <jeanne> ack GVoic
14:43:53 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
14:43:53 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Brainstorm on responsive design" taken up [from KimPatch]
14:45:26 <jon_avila> q?
14:45:32 <Detlev> Kim: Spot the things that need attention
14:45:33 <jon_avila> q+
14:46:20 <Detlev> Jan: Differnet content may be loaded at different breakpoints, things may be switched
14:47:04 <Detlev> Jeanne: Discussion going on responsive image rec. - allowing change of images where img would require different alt
14:47:21 <jon_avila> q?
14:47:41 <jeanne> zakim, GVoice is really jon_avila
14:47:41 <Zakim> +jon_avila; got it
14:48:08 <Detlev> Jon: menu normally on screen becomes a flyout - will adress this in talk
14:48:33 <Detlev> q+
14:49:53 <Detlev> Jon: Form design: placeholder issues - have smaller label appear above the input
14:50:10 <Detlev> q-
14:50:39 <Detlev> Jon: tables may be dynamically formatted at different breakppoints
14:50:58 <Detlev> Jon: so the assumption that some things stay the same may be incorrect
14:51:18 <Detlev> Kim: Other things?
14:51:22 <Detlev> q+
14:51:42 <jon_avila> q-
14:51:45 <jon_avila> q?
14:51:57 <jon_avila> q-
14:54:08 <jon_avila> q?
14:54:55 <Detlev> Detlev: wonders whether navigation related differences between browsers may entre the picture somewhere - may not be an a11y issue
14:54:56 <jeanne> ack GVoice
14:55:09 <jeanne> ack [GVoice
14:55:13 <jeanne> ack Det
14:55:49 <Detlev> Jon - acknowledges differences to desktop - gestures mimicking back button
14:56:34 <jeanne> q+ to ask if we could make a statement that we do not support testing for assistive tech and providing a different page for assistive tech users.
14:57:19 <Detlev> Kim: basic point was navigation mechanisms are diverse and often diferent from desktop
14:58:00 <Detlev> Jeanne: Responsive design is not the same as delivering custom designs to particular assistive technologies
14:58:40 <jon_avila> q?
14:59:33 <Detlev> Jon: Responsive design could go further by being responsive to user preferences (such as prefer desktop site=
14:59:39 <jeanne> +1 to Jon's comment
15:00:40 <Detlev> Jan: Trigger breakpoints to have larger text in one column
15:01:14 <Detlev> Jon: Agrees that detection of AT not desirable - more listening to user prefs
15:04:47 <Detlev> Detlev: Mentioning customisabilty options
15:04:59 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:05:00 <Zakim> -jon_avila
15:05:00 <Zakim> -Detlev
15:05:45 <KimPatch>  zakim, list participants
15:05:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kim_Patch, Jeanne, [IPcaller], Detlev, jon_avila
15:06:03 <KimPatch> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/25-mobile-a11y-minutes.html KimPatch
15:07:35 <KimPatch> rrsagent, bye
15:07:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items