13:50:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #chairing
13:50:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-chairing-irc
13:50:37 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public
13:50:55 <Ralph> Meeting: Chair Training Module 2: Tools
13:51:08 <dveditz> dveditz has joined #chairing
13:53:22 <nigel> nigel has joined #chairing
13:54:34 <Zakim> Team_ChTr(TOOLS)10:00AM has now started
13:54:41 <Zakim> +Ralph
13:55:53 <acoleman> acoleman has joined #chairing
13:56:24 <Zakim> +Jeff
13:56:26 <Zakim> +??P4
13:56:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:56:47 <Lisa_Seeman> Lisa_Seeman has joined #chairing
13:56:59 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
13:56:59 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
13:57:06 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
13:57:06 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
13:57:10 <Zakim> + +1.617.299.aaaa
13:57:31 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, mute me
13:57:31 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
13:57:54 <Ralph> zakim, lisa is Lisa_Seeman
13:57:54 <Zakim> +Lisa_Seeman; got it
13:57:58 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, mute me
13:57:58 <Zakim> Lisa_Seeman should now be muted
13:58:15 <Ralph> zakim, aaaa is ScottP
13:58:15 <Zakim> +ScottP; got it
13:58:28 <jeff> jeff has joined #chairing
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14:00:17 <Zakim> +shawn
14:00:37 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #chairing
14:00:37 <scottp> scottp has joined #chairing
14:01:05 <Arnaud1> Arnaud1 has joined #chairing
14:01:12 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #chairing
14:01:16 <Ralph> [gold stars for the five who arrived on time]
14:01:27 <Zakim> +Andy_Coleman
14:01:35 <Zakim> +Vlad
14:01:41 <Zakim> + +1.908.559.aabb
14:01:45 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:01:46 <Zakim> +gmandyam
14:01:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:01:51 <Zakim> +AWK
14:02:00 <christine> Zakim, IP caller is me
14:02:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'IP caller is me', christine
14:02:06 <yosuke> yosuke has joined #chairing
14:02:09 <christine> Zakim, IPcaller is me
14:02:09 <Zakim> +christine; got it
14:02:13 <AWK> AWK has joined #chairing
14:02:14 <gmandyam> Giri Mandyam from Qualcomm Innovation Center dialing in
14:02:15 <Zakim> +SteveZ
14:02:16 <shawn> zakim, mute me
14:02:16 <Zakim> shawn should now be muted
14:02:52 <wseltzer> wseltzer has joined #chairing
14:03:08 <wseltzer> zakim, code?
14:03:08 <Zakim> the conference code is 24872 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), wseltzer
14:03:17 <dan> dan has joined #chairing
14:03:26 <SteveZ> SteveZ has joined #chairing
14:03:32 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #chairing
14:03:52 <srush> srush has joined #chairing
14:03:53 <Zakim> +Wendy
14:04:19 <wseltzer> scribenick: wseltzer
14:04:21 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/0423-tools-rrs/ Tools for W3C Groups
14:04:24 <Zakim> +dveditz
14:04:46 <wseltzer> Ralph: This session is part 2 of a 4-part series
14:04:54 <wseltzer> ... training for W3C group chairs
14:05:00 <Zakim> +??P28
14:05:08 <wseltzer> ... Next 2 sessions will cover facilitation topics
14:05:11 <wseltzer> [slide2]
14:05:22 <wseltzer> ... This session is being recorded.
14:05:24 <Zakim> + +1.818.434.aacc
14:05:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:05:56 <wseltzer> ... Slides are publicly accessible; we expect to make the minutes available.
14:06:10 <wseltzer> ... Also audio, if of sufficient quality. Transcript, someday.
14:06:16 <wseltzer> [slide3]
14:06:31 <wseltzer> s/... This/Ralph: This/
14:08:13 <Sharron> zakim, ??P28 is me
14:08:13 <Zakim> +Sharron; got it
14:08:14 <wseltzer> Ralph: every categorization scheme needs a miscellaneous topic. Hence, "other tasks"
14:08:45 <wseltzer> ... I'll try to listen to questions, will likely defer response
14:08:48 <wseltzer> [slide4]
14:09:30 <wseltzer> Ralph: Use your favorite text-editing or markup-editing tool
14:10:16 <wseltzer> ... many new team members use BlueGriffon
14:10:34 <wseltzer> ... but any markup editor of your/your document editor's choice is fine with us.
14:10:43 <wseltzer> ... How to get content onto the W3C site? several ways.
14:11:04 <wseltzer> ... We support WebDAV
14:11:32 <wseltzer> ... The entire W3C website (minus wikis and blogs) is maintained in CVS
14:11:50 <wseltzer> ... Direct HTTP write access
14:12:24 <wseltzer> ... We support Mercurial repos, git
14:13:02 <wseltzer> ... Access control supports all the previous items.
14:13:21 <wseltzer> ... Amaya, mentioned for historical reasons. Web browser that supported editing.
14:13:43 <wseltzer> ... Unfortunately, it is no longer actively maintained.
14:14:17 <wseltzer> [slide5]
14:14:45 <wseltzer> Ralph: WebDAV, linked a guide, invite updates.
14:15:22 <wseltzer> ... One feature of WebDAV in many OSes is a standard file-system view
14:16:10 <wseltzer> ... Take care. It's folder-oriented and easy to delete what you want or don't mean to delete.
14:16:41 <wseltzer> ... Save-as looks like local.
14:16:55 <wseltzer> ... Most general and simplest format for arbirtrary text markup editors.
14:16:59 <wseltzer> [slide6]
14:17:33 <wseltzer> Ralph: CVS is what we use. Other things are interfaces on top of CVS store
14:17:49 <wseltzer> -> https://www.w3.org/Project/CVSdoc/ CVS at W3C
14:18:55 <wseltzer> Ralph: conceptual differences between git and cvs are small, though UI differences are lareger
14:19:01 <wseltzer> s/lareger/larger/
14:19:16 <wseltzer> [slide7]
14:19:34 <wseltzer> Ralph: HTTP PUT has been specified since day 0.
14:20:26 <wseltzer> ... edit.w3.org is the service that provides HTTP PUT
14:21:22 <wseltzer> ... I go through this in detail because one of your responsibilities as a chair is to provide and maintain group homepages, with information about what your group is doing.
14:21:29 <wseltzer> [slide8]
14:21:59 <wseltzer> Ralph: As CVS was aging, we looked around, and at that time, Mercurial (hg) was nominated.
14:22:46 <wseltzer> ... dvcs.w3.org is our w3c-hosted hg instance
14:23:20 <wseltzer> ... We expect to provide persistence for the mercurial store as we do for the rest of our site
14:24:10 <wseltzer> ... Developers who are both writing code and participating as editors will tend to have tool preferences
14:24:22 <wseltzer> ... We're still working on how best to integrate git and github
14:24:29 <wseltzer> ... with the w3.org site.
14:24:49 <wseltzer> [slide9]
14:25:06 <wseltzer> Ralph: Underlying fine-grained access control mechanism
14:25:47 <wseltzer> ... Unlike many webservers, where ACLs are per-directory, W3C site has per-resource ACLs
14:26:21 <wseltzer> ... "Date space" (whether fondly or less fondly called) /YYYY/MM/
14:26:30 <wseltzer> ... all under fine-grained access-control
14:26:52 <wseltzer> ... Allows us to create a working group home under date space
14:26:59 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
14:27:03 <wseltzer> ... with write-access to any appropriate member of your WG
14:27:29 <wseltzer> ... you as chairs will have HTTP PUT access there
14:28:09 <allanj> allanj has joined #chairing
14:28:36 <wseltzer> ... If you've created a group area and provided access to editors, there's also a tool allowing you to set default ACLs for new documents there
14:28:54 <wseltzer> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/02/auto-acl Predefined ACLs
14:29:23 <wseltzer> Ralph: That was the general description of how things get on the W3C website.
14:29:37 <wseltzer> ... Next, I'll talk more specifically about the technical report production workflow.
14:29:41 <wseltzer> [slide10]
14:30:02 <wseltzer> -> http://www.w3.org/2003/Editors/ W3C Editors' Home Page
14:30:38 <wseltzer> Ralph: House style, not enforced except through pubrules
14:31:10 <wseltzer> ... Markup of specs, tool of choice seems to be ReSpec
14:31:57 <wseltzer> ... Tools to help with document revision process: htmldiff, spell checker
14:32:24 <wseltzer> s/, spell checker/: inline annotation of html doc differences
14:32:42 <wseltzer> ... Services available on W3C site
14:32:50 <wseltzer> ... source is also available
14:33:19 <wseltzer> ... Spell checking; link-checking;
14:33:50 <wseltzer> ... Unicorn: markup validation tools.
14:34:39 <wseltzer> ... Pubrules checker is often-cursed
14:35:06 <wseltzer> ... but it's nonetheless important
14:35:31 <Zakim> - +1.818.434.aacc
14:36:19 <wseltzer> zakim, who is making noise?
14:36:30 <Zakim> wseltzer, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ralph (25%), dveditz (46%)
14:36:47 <wseltzer> [slide11]
14:37:04 <wseltzer> Ralph: Respec.
14:37:45 <wseltzer> ... Puts in much of the boilerplate template
14:39:03 <wseltzer> ... As efforts to revise rec-track process or publishing format proceed,
14:39:14 <wseltzer> ... there may be more encouragement to use ReSpec
14:39:45 <wseltzer> ... I have heard strong suggestions that documents using ReSpec will be more flexible
14:40:20 <wseltzer> ... and extensible, because ReSpec captures metadata
14:40:50 <wseltzer> ... Start from a template
14:41:00 <wseltzer> -> http://www.w3.org/respec/examples/template.html ReSpec template
14:41:05 <wseltzer> [slide12]
14:41:29 <wseltzer> Ralph: link checker, allows recursion
14:43:03 <wseltzer> ... ,checklink
14:43:55 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.908.559.aabb
14:44:29 <wseltzer> [slide13]
14:44:54 <wseltzer> Ralph: Unicorn, a multiple markup validator.
14:45:05 <wseltzer> ... a required step in spec publication pipeline, pubrules
14:45:49 <wseltzer> ... Validator Suite offers recursive testing
14:46:12 <wseltzer> ... but you will be validating pages as you create them
14:46:26 <wseltzer> [slide14]
14:46:55 <Zakim> -Joshue
14:46:55 <wseltzer> Ralph: pubrules checks for required header material
14:48:17 <wseltzer> [slide15]
14:48:28 <wseltzer> Ralph: tools for managing discussion
14:48:54 <wseltzer> ... primary tools: tracker, bugzilla, lc comments tracker
14:48:56 <Zakim> + +46.8.50.51.aadd
14:49:08 <wseltzer> [slide16]
14:49:13 <wseltzer> Ralph: We have a public bugzilla instance
14:50:00 <wseltzer> ... no requirement that you use bugzilla, but many find it useful, e.g. HTML WG
14:50:18 <hta> hta has joined #chairing
14:50:56 <wseltzer> ... at major transition points, LC->CR, CR->PR, director will ask for verification that your group has responded to comments
14:51:27 <wseltzer> ... if you're using bugzilla to track comments, these scripts will help generate disposition of comments
14:51:55 <wseltzer> ... bugs2html bugzilla.xsl
14:53:52 <wseltzer> [slide17]
14:55:06 <wseltzer> Ralph: Last Call Comment Tracker, provides means to track comments, annotate, and reply
14:56:16 <wseltzer> ... use of the particular tool is optional, but producing the report is required
14:56:46 <wseltzer> ... Meeting management and recordkeeping
14:56:49 <dveditz> [slide 18]
14:56:50 <wseltzer> [slide18]
14:56:56 <wseltzer> scribenick: dveditz
14:57:20 <dveditz> tools: irc (e.g. this #chairing channel)
14:58:21 <dveditz> ... Zakim, name refers to two separate services (HW conf bridge, IRC agent)
14:58:45 <dveditz> ... RRSAgent is the tool for recording meetings
14:58:58 <dveditz> ... tracker is the tool for actions and issues
14:59:26 <dveditz> ... WBS, scribe.perl (HTML formatted meeting notes)
14:59:47 <Vlad> Sorry, have to leave now
14:59:52 <Zakim> -Vlad
14:59:57 <dveditz> ... link to Scribe 101 -- an introduction to how to run meetings and use these tools.
15:00:12 <Zakim> -Wendy
15:00:25 <dveditz> ... last link is more information on using these tools
15:00:33 <dveditz> [slide 19]
15:01:20 <dveditz> ... link to reserving a teleconference slot (bridge physical capacity is limited)
15:02:07 <dveditz> ... reserved via email messages, details at that link
15:02:56 <dveditz> ... Zakim commands are documented, managing the speaker queue and agenda can be done via zakim
15:03:43 <dveditz> ... several styles these tools can be used, link to a document with hints and kinks you might find yourself in. tricks on how to use Zakim for specific situations
15:03:47 <jeff> jeff has joined #chairing
15:03:55 <dveditz> ... (please feel free to add your own tips to the wiki page)
15:04:31 <dan> [slide 20]
15:04:41 <dveditz> ... many groups find the parts of zakim that manage speaker tools can be useful apart from the teleconferencing bridge, invite Zakim into your channel
15:04:50 <dveditz> [slide 20]
15:05:08 <dveditz> ... RRSAgent can be invited into a channel as well
15:05:36 <dveditz> ... there's a timelag for RRSAgent, but if it's more than 2-3 minutes it's probably stuck. send a trouble report
15:06:00 <dveditz> ... both zakim and rrsagent need to be invited into your specific channel
15:06:11 <Zakim> -Jeff
15:06:30 <dveditz> ... /invite rrsagent #chairing    for example
15:06:40 <dveditz> [slide 21]
15:06:43 <dveditz> ... tracker
15:07:08 <dveditz> ... has a config db and knows about regular channels and meetings
15:07:26 <dveditz> ... it will invite zakim and rrsagent for you and set up the mtg record
15:07:43 <dveditz> ... and format the meeting notes later
15:07:59 <dveditz> ... real use is to manage a db of action items, your group's issues, and track resolutions
15:08:19 <dveditz> .... tracker itself is the latest in several variations on the same theme
15:08:32 <dveditz> ... tracker has been designed and tuned for the w3c community style
15:08:39 <dveditz> ... 3 interfaces
15:09:21 <dveditz> ... (links)  trackbot irc interface (not present in this specific channel, but you're welcome to ask the systems team to set it up for your channel)
15:09:34 <dveditz> ... web interface to the tracker -- superset of the IRC interface
15:10:08 <dveditz> ... and an email interface to your WG's mailing list
15:10:31 <dveditz> ... tracker will identify msgs that refer to specific actions and include those messages in with the history of that action
15:10:58 <dveditz> ... depending on how good your group members are at including the magic keywords in the messages
15:11:29 <dveditz> ... best keeping messages about one issue in separate from messages abouot other issues.
15:11:44 <dveditz> ... if they're combined sometimes the same mail gets included into multiple issue records
15:12:28 <dveditz> ... traditionally tracker is configured to always be present on your channel, very convenient to ask about specific issues
15:12:35 <dveditz> ... when a mtg is in progress
15:13:08 <dveditz> ... when using bugzilla or LC tracker there's a tool for creating the Director's last call comments (record?)
15:13:33 <dveditz> ... DisCo: that script expects a specific style of comments (link in slide)
15:14:10 <dveditz> ... if you use tracker to track your last call comments that's a fine thing to do, but look at the documentation for DisCo so you know ahead of time what style comment the tool is looking for
15:14:16 <dveditz> [slide 22]
15:14:35 <dveditz> ... these 3 tools can be a source of confusion for your members
15:15:07 <dveditz> ... for some need to address the bot directly ("Zakim, <dothis>"    "trackbot, <dothis>)")
15:15:35 <dveditz> ... zakim does teleconferencing management
15:15:46 <dveditz> ... rrsagent is a record keeping function
15:16:11 <dveditz> ... trackbot interfaces with the actions and issues database.
15:16:34 <Zakim> +??P17
15:16:45 <nigel> zakim, ??P17 is me
15:16:45 <Zakim> +nigel; got it
15:16:45 <dveditz> ... rrsagent has some recognition of issues and actions, trackbot recognizes the same things
15:16:51 <dveditz> [slide 23]
15:17:03 <nigel> zakim, mute me
15:17:03 <Zakim> nigel should now be muted
15:17:09 <dveditz> ... web-based strawpoll info gathering tool
15:18:02 <dveditz> ... when creating a poll using WBS there are templates for common situations: teleconferencing scheduling, meeting times,
15:18:09 <dveditz> ... not a common place to find these
15:19:04 <dveditz> ... any questionnaire you find where you like its style you can grab a copy and adapt it to your needs
15:19:15 <dveditz> ... link at top of slide 23
15:19:25 <dveditz> ... to detailed documentation on WBS
15:20:05 <dveditz> [slide 24]
15:20:13 <dveditz> ... last of the tools is scribe.perl
15:20:43 <dveditz> ... nrmally you don't see this directly, bundled in with rrsagent functionality usually
15:21:13 <dveditz> ... link to editing commands to making corrections to what the scribe has recorded
15:22:19 <dveditz> ... scribe.perl can be invoked independently of rrsagent -- useful if you need to generate minutes the day after the meeting (for example)
15:22:30 <dveditz> ... rrsagent wouldn't know the correct date at that point
15:22:47 <dveditz> [slide 25]
15:22:54 <dveditz> ... "Other"...
15:23:30 <dveditz> ... needs it's own meeting: how do we test a specification. "Test the Web Forward"
15:23:55 <dveditz> ... repository hosted by W3C (thanks to Toby (?) for donating that to us)
15:24:27 <dveditz> ... contains a primer on getting started with git and github
15:24:58 <dveditz> ... if your group is using that and have some members that are unfamiliar with those tools
15:25:41 <dveditz> ... comments or questions about the the testing workflow the public-test-infra list is the best place
15:25:58 <dveditz> ... we use MediaWiki to manage all our wikis (public, group, private)
15:26:06 <dveditz> ... link to style hints and suggestions
15:26:50 <dveditz> ... our blogging environment is Wordpress -- link to how to request a blog for your WG if you want to use that
15:27:13 <dveditz> ... link to Slidy, a presentation tool (used in this presentation, for example)
15:27:35 <dveditz> ... I like Slidy, the format is HTML and that's a familiar environment for many
15:27:44 <dveditz> [slide 27]
15:28:01 <dveditz> ... more information available on the w3 tools wiki
15:28:34 <dveditz> ... a little out of date, but still useful
15:28:52 <dveditz> ... I mentioned earlier re link-checker that there was a shortcut
15:29:11 <dveditz> ... add ",checklink" to end of URLs on w3.org
15:29:20 <dveditz> ... there are other "comma" tools
15:29:34 <dveditz> oops, [slide 26], not 27
15:30:10 <dveditz> ... ",minutes", pretty print text ",text", ",validate" runs the validator
15:30:21 <dveditz> ... ",pubrules",
15:30:37 <dveditz> ... ",pubruleserrors" shows the errors generated
15:30:52 <dveditz> ... mailing list link for more questions on these tools
15:30:56 <dveditz> [slide 27]
15:31:07 <dveditz> ... thanks to all for the development of the tools I've described here
15:31:36 <dveditz> ... please let us know your own favorite ways to work with or around these tools
15:31:48 <dveditz> ... and we'll add the best to the guidebook and the tools wiki
15:32:14 <dveditz> I think I'm muted....
15:32:15 <Arnaud1> +q
15:32:20 <Arnaud1> zamik, unmute me
15:32:21 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:32:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ralph, Lisa_Seeman (muted), ScottP, shawn (muted), Andy_Coleman, +1.908.559.aabb, Arnaud, gmandyam, christine, AWK, SteveZ, dveditz (muted), Sharron, yosuke,
15:32:24 <Zakim> ... Jim_Allan, +46.8.50.51.aadd, nigel (muted)
15:32:34 <AWK> AWK has joined #chairing
15:33:04 <dveditz> Arnaud: I find the last call tracker tool hard to use
15:33:29 <dveditz> ... hard to remember the arcane details
15:33:38 <AWK> Agree re: comment tracker.  The filtering mechanism is broken in unpredictable ways that make it difficult to rely on.
15:33:43 <dveditz> ... if you're looking for a tool that needs help I recommend this one
15:34:01 <dveditz> Ralph: what's your favorite tool that you've used for things like this?
15:34:20 <dveditz> Arnaud1: I've seen people use simple wiki pages, pretty bare but easier to use
15:34:40 <dveditz> ... the intention is good, but the implementation is not. If I had to do it again I'd do it by hand because at least you know exactly what's going on
15:35:05 <dveditz> Ralph: I'm hearing that you struggle with LC tracker, and prefer to do it "by hand"
15:35:16 <dveditz> ... I don't know hen we'll have resources to revise any of these tools
15:35:21 <christine> Thanks, and apologies. I need to leave the call.
15:35:23 <AWK> q+ to ask who to notify about issues with tools
15:35:29 <Zakim> -christine
15:35:42 <dveditz> Arnaud1: the status is that this is not an officially supported tool but .... group used "comment-scribe"
15:35:55 <Ralph> CommonScribe
15:36:03 <dveditz> ... will transform minutes into nicely formatted comments
15:36:36 <dveditz> Ralph: thanks for mentioning CommonScribe... Sandra's done a nice job with it
15:36:57 <dveditz> ... most of these tools were developed by individuals trying to make a repetitive task they had to do easier
15:37:12 <dveditz> .... everyone of these tools started as a midnight hack by some individual
15:37:46 <dveditz> ... CommonScribe is a very useful tool, hasn't yet made the transition from "Sandra's project" to officially supported by the systems team but I agree it's a nice tool
15:37:59 <Ralph> s/Sandra/Sandro/
15:38:09 <dveditz> ... can't recommend it to other WG chairs who don't have the benefit of Sandra in your group to fix things when it goes wrong
15:38:29 <Zakim> AWK, you wanted to ask who to notify about issues with tools
15:38:40 <dveditz> Arnaud1: It's a good tool but I also would not recommend it to groups without Sandro present
15:38:56 <dveditz> AWK: I like the tracker tool, we use it all the time, but aspects we can't use
15:39:26 <dveditz> ... when comments are sent to the list the tool offers the ability to import from a URL but it never works. who do we talk to about that?
15:39:48 <Ralph> mailto:sysreq@w3.org for bugs
15:39:58 <dveditz> Ralph: if you're having difficulty ith a documented feature that doesn't work send mail to sysreq@w3.org
15:40:16 <dveditz> ... I owuld characterize that as a bug and that's perfectly appropriate
15:40:34 <Ralph> mailto:w3t-sys@w3.org for feature requests
15:40:43 <dveditz> ... feature requests can go to w3t-sys@w3.org
15:41:09 <Ralph> mailto:w3c-tools@w3.org for dicussion
15:41:38 <dveditz> ... for collaboration on tool devleopment I recommend w3c-tools@w3.org  I think that's an underutilized list for discussions about tools needs
15:41:59 <Arnaud1> irc channel #sysreq works well when looking for quick remedies - like some system down
15:42:42 <dveditz> ... Arnaud1 commented in irc that there's also the #sysreq irc channel. no promises it's monitored 24/7 but it often is
15:43:17 <dveditz> Arnaud1: I will add that even if you join and it looks like no one's there, the sysreq team has tools and will be notified when you post something there
15:44:06 <dveditz> Ralph: thx for mentioning that. unlike most channels you won't necessarily see people just sitting there. When you type there it interrupts other channels the sysreq folks are watching
15:44:10 <dveditz> ... like a paging system
15:44:29 <dveditz> ... any other favorite tools you'd like to share
15:44:40 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #chairing
15:44:58 <dveditz> ... I perhaps disparaged by omission many tools that have been used in the past or are still being used
15:45:20 <dveditz> ... In this presentation I chose the tools that are most commen and current best practices
15:45:27 <dveditz> ... but there are others that can be useful
15:45:39 <dveditz> ... thanks for expressing your interest by attending
15:46:09 <Zakim> -AWK
15:46:10 <Zakim> -shawn
15:46:11 <dveditz> ... stay safe out there with w3 tools, and please share your experiences with us so we can improve tools and future chairs can benefit from you
15:46:12 <Zakim> - +1.908.559.aabb
15:46:12 <Zakim> -gmandyam
15:46:13 <Lisa_Seeman> [thanks to Ralph.. ]
15:46:14 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:46:15 <Zakim> - +46.8.50.51.aadd
15:46:16 <Zakim> -Andy_Coleman
15:46:17 <Zakim> -nigel
15:46:19 <Zakim> -Sharron
15:46:20 <Zakim> -ScottP
15:46:21 <Zakim> -yosuke
15:46:22 <shawn> shawn has left #chairing
15:46:23 <Zakim> -SteveZ
15:46:29 <Zakim> -Lisa_Seeman
15:46:51 <Zakim> -dveditz
15:46:54 <dveditz> not sure what to do scribewise at this point...
15:46:56 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
15:47:20 <scottp> scottp has left #chairing
15:47:25 <Ralph> [no problem, dveditz ; I'll take it from here.  Thanks very much for picking up the scribe task]
15:47:38 <dveditz> I guess I should go read the link on the slides now :-)
15:47:48 <dveditz> for next time
15:47:52 <Zakim> -Ralph
15:47:57 <Ralph> :)
15:48:02 <Zakim> Team_ChTr(TOOLS)10:00AM has ended
15:48:03 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Jeff, Joshue, +1.617.299.aaaa, Lisa_Seeman, ScottP, shawn, Andy_Coleman, Vlad, +1.908.559.aabb, Arnaud, gmandyam, AWK, christine, SteveZ, Wendy, dveditz,
15:48:03 <Zakim> ... +1.818.434.aacc, yosuke, Sharron, Jim_Allan, +46.8.50.51.aadd, nigel
15:48:13 <Ralph> [watch and learn, then :)]
15:48:20 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:48:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-chairing-minutes.html Ralph
15:48:52 <Ralph> [that step takes a moment until the minutes are available]
15:48:58 <dveditz> slick ... all my typos preserved forever :-)
15:49:03 <dveditz> it's already there
15:49:09 <dveditz> guess rssagent asn't that busy
15:49:29 <dveditz> (gah, I really need to fix the sticky 'w' on this keyboard)
15:49:48 <dveditz> thanks
15:49:53 <Ralph> so, what's your least favorite typo?
15:50:28 <dveditz> sorry I didn't know Sandro wasn't Sandra
15:50:33 <Ralph> s/comment-scribe/CommonScribe/
15:50:38 <dveditz> and that
15:50:43 <Ralph> s/Sandra/Sandro/
15:51:06 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:51:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-chairing-minutes.html Ralph
15:51:16 <dveditz> do those s/ editing commands actually change the minutes, or were those informational to me?
15:51:23 <Ralph> they do change the minutes
15:51:42 <Ralph> anyone in the channel can use them to help out the scribe
15:51:50 <dveditz> ah handy
15:51:59 <Ralph> very much so
15:52:43 <Ralph> another oft-used trick: when the scribe has difficulty hearing or keeping up, use "@@" as a signal for "help, please"
15:53:09 <Ralph> Ralph: Fred particularly likes @@
15:53:10 <Ralph> ...
15:53:43 <Ralph> this is a hint to come back and fill in the @@ -- with s/@@/macaroni and cheese/
15:53:50 <dveditz> so the minutes capture everything in the channel, not just what the scribe types
15:54:04 <Ralph> almost everything
15:54:13 <Ralph> see RRSAgent documentation
15:55:12 <dveditz> yup, lots of links to read through
15:55:32 <Ralph> most commands to Zakim are recorded in the raw typescript but then elided (by scribe.perl) from the minutes; e.g. "zakim, mute Alex"
15:55:52 <Ralph> a lot you learn by example :)
15:55:54 <dveditz> quite a good list, thanks for collecting it all. Those were all tools I've run into and didn't know who to control
15:56:16 <dveditz> s/who/ho/
15:56:21 <dveditz> how, dammit
15:56:25 <Ralph> :)
15:56:36 <dveditz> off to fry's for a keyboard I guess
15:56:45 <dveditz> thanks!
15:56:51 <Ralph> my favorite place :)
15:56:57 <dveditz> dveditz has left #chairing
15:58:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #chairing
15:59:25 <jeff> jeff has joined #chairing
16:08:04 <Sharron> Sharron has left #chairing
16:15:08 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
16:15:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items