14:50:40 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 14:50:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/22-wai-wcag-irc 14:50:42 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:50:42 Zakim has joined #wai-wcag 14:50:44 Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 14:50:44 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 14:50:45 Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14:50:45 Date: 22 April 2014 14:52:26 regrets+ Bruce, Sailesh 14:52:34 agenda+ Publication timeline update 14:52:42 agenda+ WCAG @ TPAC 2014? https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcagtpac14/ 14:52:50 agenda+ Miscellaneous responses to survey items and 1 new technique: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/misc22April2014/ 14:53:03 agenda+ April Task Force Updates (new information on here this week) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/April14TFUpdates/ 14:53:15 agenda+ https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses 14:53:23 Chair: Joshue 14:56:15 Wilco has joined #wai-wcag 14:56:57 WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started 14:57:04 +Andrew_Kirkpatrick 14:57:51 zakim, code? 14:57:51 the conference code is 9224 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Joshue108 14:58:01 +[IPcaller] 14:58:09 zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue 14:58:09 +Joshue; got it 14:58:21 -Andrew_Kirkpatrick 14:58:40 +Andrew_Kirkpatrick 14:58:42 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:58:42 On the phone I see Joshue, Andrew_Kirkpatrick 14:59:39 jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag 15:00:07 +Kathy_Wahlbin 15:00:17 +Jon_avila 15:00:39 +??P11 15:01:00 +??P15 15:01:09 kathleen has joined #wai-wcag 15:01:14 zakim, ??P15 is Michael_Cooper 15:01:15 +Michael_Cooper; got it 15:01:19 zakim, ??P11 is Wilco_Fiers 15:01:19 +Wilco_Fiers; got it 15:01:56 zakim, mute me 15:01:57 Wilco_Fiers should now be muted 15:02:06 +kathleen 15:02:09 +Katie_Haritos-Shea 15:02:15 GreggVan has joined #WAI-WCAG 15:02:32 zakim, unmute me 15:02:32 Wilco_Fiers should no longer be muted 15:02:42 marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag 15:02:48 +Gregg_Vanderheiden 15:02:52 scribe: Wilco 15:03:09 agenda? 15:03:12 +Marc_Johlic 15:04:00 Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag 15:04:08 zakim, next item 15:04:08 agendum 1. "Publication timeline update" taken up [from Joshue108] 15:04:40 +??P26 15:04:59 zakim, ??P26 is Tim_Boland 15:04:59 +Tim_Boland; got it 15:05:27 Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG 15:05:34 Josh: next publishing coming up 15:06:02 Josh: May 15th is the deadline 15:06:09 +[IPcaller] 15:06:22 zakim, IPcaller is Loretta 15:06:22 +Loretta; got it 15:06:54 Andrew: Techniques should be sent in by the 15th 15:07:46 Josh: Try getting techniques in in a relatively complete state in the next two weeks 15:07:51 zakim, next item 15:07:52 agendum 2. "WCAG @ TPAC 2014? https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcagtpac14/" taken up [from Joshue108] 15:08:36 Josh: TPAC is on October 27th, where there will be a WCAG face 2 face meeting 15:08:54 Josh: Fill in a questionnaire if you haven't already 15:09:10 AWK has joined #wai-wcag 15:09:43 Michael: Space must be reserved in a week 15:10:04 +James_Nurthen 15:10:08 Josh: TPAC is a good opportunity to meet with other working groups. 15:11:34 James: Don't know if i can make Sunday but I can make week days 15:11:43 zakim, next item 15:11:43 agendum 3. "Miscellaneous responses to survey items and 1 new technique: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/misc22April2014/" taken up [from Joshue108] 15:12:22 TOPIC: LC2917 15:13:12 Resolution: accepted as proposed LC2917, LC2920 15:13:14 AWK_ has joined #wai-wcag 15:14:30 John: We should make sure link text can be used to describe the link purpose 15:15:09 jamesn has joined #wai-wcag 15:15:20 zakim, regrets? 15:15:20 I don't understand your question, AWK_. 15:15:33 regrets+ Bruce, John Foliot, Sailesh 15:15:58 Check that the combined value of the text referenced by the one or more ID's in the aria-labelledby attribute properly combined with the link text describes the purpose of the link element. 15:16:25 Josh: Looks ok John 15:16:57 Check that the combined value of the text referenced by the one or more ID's in the aria-labelledby attribute properly with the link text describes the purpose of the link element. 15:16:58 before: Check that the combined value of the text referenced by the one or more ID's in the aria-labelledby attribute properly describes the purpose of the link element. 15:18:16 Andrew: If you use labelledby on a link the label is not announced 15:19:01 John: i thought it was best practice to include the link text in the aria-label 15:21:30 Josh: I suggest we leave this open a little, it is not as easy because of voice recognition software 15:21:59 q+ 15:22:23 ack jon 15:23:19 Jon: Is it a failure if you don't include aria-label in the nearby header 15:24:11 James: Content user won't care if it's really a header 15:25:08 q- 15:25:12 Josh: I suggest we accept the resolution and take on the issue of speech recognition later 15:25:41 James: I'm fine with the proposed solution 15:26:32 q+ 15:26:37 ack AWK 15:26:48 q+ 15:27:16 Andrew: If aria-label is used does it become the link text? 15:27:40 q? 15:28:19 Loretta: The link text is the content inside the link 15:28:55 James: If screen readers do it correctly aria-label is read in place of the content of the link 15:28:57 q- 15:29:51 jamesn_ has joined #wai-wcag 15:30:41 .Jon: There is perhaps some wording to change in the technique 15:30:55 q+ 15:31:07 ack jon 15:31:25 rrsagent, make minutes 15:31:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn_ 15:32:30 Action: Jon will suggest a text change for ARIA7 at a later time 15:32:31 Created ACTION-255 - Will suggest a text change for aria7 at a later time [on Jon Gunderson - due 2014-04-29]. 15:32:50 Resolution: Accepted as proposed LC2920 15:33:51 ack me 15:34:34 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2916 15:34:46 Topic: LC2916 15:35:01 ack me 15:35:25 zakim, mute me 15:35:25 Michael_Cooper should now be muted 15:36:55 Josh: change 'the table header' to 'table headers' 15:40:38 New: H79: Identifying the purpose of a link in a data table using the link text combined with its enclosing table cell and associated table header cells 15:40:41 +David_MacDonald 15:41:05 Andrew: Change it to header cells 15:41:31 David has joined #wai-wcag 15:41:36 RESOLUTION: LC2916 accepted with the proposed change from Andrew 15:42:00 TOPIC: LC2918 15:42:24 rrsagent, make minutes 15:42:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html David 15:43:08 Jon: It was confusing when talking about description and label 15:44:46 RESOLUTION: LC2918, accepted as proposed 15:44:55 TOPIC: LC2919 15:45:01 ack me 15:45:54 +1 with Michael 15:46:06 Michael: Techniques should also link to understanding, or understanding should not link to technique 15:46:16 zakim, mute me 15:46:16 Wilco_Fiers should now be muted 15:46:18 ARIA1: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/ARIA1 15:47:01 understanding 2.4.4: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140311/navigation-mechanisms-focus-order.html 15:47:14 http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140408/ARIA1 15:48:04 http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-refs.html 15:48:06 http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-refs.html 15:51:24 David; ARIA1 is not linked to 2.4.4 because ARIA 8 (or 9?) is linked 15:52:14 ariq 7 15:52:22 zakim, queue? 15:52:22 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:52:32 aria 7 is labelledby for link purpose 15:52:45 Andrew: I wrote the resolution with the idea that techniques should be specific 15:54:07 Michael: For 2919 I agree with the commenter's issue, which is different from what the response addressed 15:54:58 +q 15:55:03 Michael: The issue is that ARIA1 does not say it is a criteria for 2.4.4 15:55:03 ack me 15:55:32 Josh: If ARIA1 addressed 2.4.4 it should link from understanding 15:55:40 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/ARIA1:_Using_the_aria-describedby_property_to_provide_a_descriptive_label_for_user_interface_controls 15:55:41 q+ 15:56:47 Andrew: The task force dropped ARIA1 from 2.4.4, that means the error is in the understanding document 15:57:07 https://github.com/DavidMacDonald/wcag/blob/master/wcag20/sources/ARIA-tech-src.xml#L2375 15:57:24 ack david 15:57:50 q+ to note this sort of error I hope to eliminate with the source format reformat ;) 15:58:19 David: I wrote a technique to use describedby with link text 15:59:24 zakim, unmute me 15:59:24 Wilco_Fiers should no longer be muted 15:59:36 ack michael 15:59:37 MichaelC, you wanted to note this sort of error I hope to eliminate with the source format reformat ;) 16:00:25 Michael: This is an editorial issue that should be resolved with source formatting in the future 16:00:50 zakim, queue? 16:00:50 I see no one on the speaker queue 16:02:20 -Tim_Boland 16:02:43 oop[s here is it https://github.com/DavidMacDonald/wcag/blob/master/wcag20/sources/ARIA-tech-src.xml#L2488 16:02:46 Andrew: We should remove it from 2.4.4 understanding, if ARIA1 should belong with 2.4.4 it is a separate issue 16:03:28 David: I agree, there is a better technique for that already 16:04:02 zakim, who's noisy? 16:04:12 David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andrew_Kirkpatrick (29%), Joshue (64%), Marc_Johlic (19%) 16:04:28 Mark can you mute? 16:04:49 zakim, mute marc 16:04:49 Marc_Johlic should now be muted 16:05:29 zakim, mute me 16:05:29 Joshue should now be muted 16:06:31 I'll dial back in 16:06:36 Andrew: The response should be a little simpler, saying it was an error and we'll remove the link 16:06:37 -Marc_Johlic 16:06:45 +1 16:07:13 +Marc_Johlic 16:07:22 zakim, who is noisy? 16:07:32 -Marc_Johlic 16:07:32 Joshue108, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andrew_Kirkpatrick (15%) 16:08:08 RESOLUTION: LC2919 is accepted as ammended 16:08:26 +Marc_Johlic 16:09:01 TOPIC: New Technique: Using the region role to identify a region on a page 16:10:02 Andrew: In general the technique seems good, tweaks are suggested 16:11:14 zakim, agenda? 16:11:14 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda: 16:11:15 3. Miscellaneous responses to survey items and 1 new technique: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/misc22April2014/ [from Joshue108] 16:11:15 4. April Task Force Updates (new information on here this week) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/April14TFUpdates/ [from Joshue108] 16:11:15 5. https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses [from Joshue108] 16:12:30 Adrew: I'm not sure this needs aria-label for 1.3.1 16:13:22 Andrew: The aria specs however do require this 16:15:12 Loretta: We maybe should not write the technique to be applied on the entire page but on a specific place on the page 16:17:34 David: We should avoid having many regions without labels 16:18:13 AWK has joined #wai-wcag 16:18:24 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/html.html#H37 16:18:54 Andrew: H37 also talks about 'each image in the content' 16:18:59 Proposed modification: "For each region of a page..." -> "For a region of a page..." 16:19:19 Loretta: That is an old technique which I think should be cleaned up 16:20:45 ack me 16:21:43 For a part a part of the page not identified in another way: 16:23:40 David: it is fine to limit it to role=region 16:24:00 zakim, mute me 16:24:00 Joshue should now be muted 16:25:02 Loretta: I think part of a page is too soft 16:25:12 David: I agree, take it back 16:26:04 q+ 16:26:30 q+ 16:26:38 q+ 16:26:41 Andrew: To meet 1.3.1 the region does not need a label, this is required for 4.1.2 16:27:09 Loretta: I don't think regions don't apply to 4.1.2 because they are not interactive 16:27:37 -Joshue 16:27:54 Loretta: For future proofing we should not say what method should be used for labelling a region 16:27:58 ack lo 16:28:01 ack jo 16:28:29 John: I think 1.3.1 does apply to a label 16:28:49 q+ 16:28:59 ack j 16:29:28 James: Just because this technique requires a label does not mean not having a label is a failure 16:30:00 ack me 16:30:07 q+ 16:30:12 ack w 16:30:51 q+ 16:30:59 ack me 16:31:07 ack m 16:31:10 q+ 16:31:37 Wilco: Maybe if you iniclude a limit on using region in incorrect ways 16:32:14 ack me 16:32:18 Michael: If there are cases where authors may not use label then we should not push too hard on that 16:32:42 -Gregg_Vanderheiden 16:33:52 -James_Nurthen 16:34:20 Andrew: leave the issue open for the next meeting 16:34:48 -Loretta 16:34:52 -kathleen 16:34:53 -Kathy_Wahlbin 16:34:54 -Jon_avila 16:35:03 RESOLUTION: leave open 16:35:14 zakim, list attendees 16:35:14 As of this point the attendees have been Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, Wilco_Fiers, kathleen, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Gregg_Vanderheiden, 16:35:17 ... Marc_Johlic, Tim_Boland, Loretta, James_Nurthen, David_MacDonald 16:35:17 rrsagent, make minutes 16:35:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC 16:35:24 -Katie_Haritos-Shea 16:36:02 -Marc_Johlic 16:38:44 -Wilco_Fiers 16:43:06 -Michael_Cooper 16:55:00 -Andrew_Kirkpatrick 16:55:01 -David_MacDonald 16:55:01 WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended 16:55:01 Attendees were Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, Wilco_Fiers, kathleen, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Marc_Johlic, Tim_Boland, 16:55:01 ... Loretta, James_Nurthen, David_MacDonald 17:15:06 David_ has joined #wai-wcag 17:53:34 Joshue has joined #wai-wcag 18:16:47 Kathy has joined #wai-wcag 19:07:07 Joshue has joined #wai-wcag 19:13:56 GreggVan has joined #WAI-WCAG 20:17:32 Kathy has joined #wai-wcag 21:13:58 Kathy has left #wai-wcag