16:36:27 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:36:27 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-irc 16:36:29 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:36:29 Zakim has joined #ua 16:36:31 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:36:31 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes 16:36:32 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:36:32 Date: 17 April 2014 16:37:10 rrsagent, set logs public 16:42:51 chair: jimAllan 16:42:56 regrets: Kelly 16:56:38 jeanne has joined #ua 16:59:10 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 16:59:17 +Jim_Allan 16:59:37 agenda+ TPAC 2014 Santa Clara 27-31 Oct 2014 16:59:38 agenda+ using Git 16:59:40 agenda+ Review edits to the Abstract in response to EO comments EO01 & EO02. 16:59:41 agenda+ review comments start at AP02 16:59:43 comments document: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html 17:00:20 agenda+ webtv a11y use cases 17:01:08 +Jeanne 17:01:23 Greg has joined #ua 17:01:44 +Greg_Lowney 17:02:18 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:02:20 +Kim_Patch 17:03:46 Jan has joined #ua 17:03:54 zakim, code? 17:03:54 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 17:04:08 Eric has joined #ua 17:04:24 +[IPcaller] 17:04:42 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 17:04:42 +Jan; got it 17:06:33 +Eric 17:06:38 scribe: allanj 17:07:41 agenda? 17:08:09 zakim, open item 1 17:08:09 agendum 1. "TPAC 2014 Santa Clara 27-31 Oct 2014" taken up [from allanj] 17:08:37 do we want to have a f2f there? 17:08:43 jr: +1 17:08:47 kp: +1 17:08:49 +1 17:08:53 gl: +1 17:09:36 kp: first 2 days? 17:09:41 gl: yes 17:11:31 Resolution: we are having a F2F in Santa Clara 17:12:05 zakim, close item 1 17:12:05 agendum 1, TPAC 2014 Santa Clara 27-31 Oct 2014, closed 17:12:06 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:12:06 2. using Git [from allanj] 17:12:18 open item 2 17:13:47 js: git - exploring for several months, jeanne has had some training 17:14:26 ... proposing the group use it for some time, to see if we like it. if we like it can move to W3 space 17:15:17 js: advantages - anyone in group could edit doc. robust history, track changes, includes bug tracking system, etc. etc. 17:15:40 kp: first step, download? 17:16:13 js: it is a web repository, no downloads needed. just create an account 17:16:19 w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/ 17:17:19 3 ways to edit...jeanne gives permission, edit in browser, or download a local version of the file - edit with whatever tool - then upload again 17:18:24 or you can FORK the file in your own account or locally on your computer 17:18:43 w3 backs up all w3 space in github 17:19:06 https://github.com/jspellman/UAAG 17:19:59 js: after forking, you can go to the UAAG page, and create a PULL request, and JS can fetch the changes, one at a time 17:21:46 js: you can also create a BUG on the spec, when the document is updated, the bug is updated, and tracks everything all the time. 17:24:23 js: send Jeanne credentials you want to use and she will create accounts 17:26:33 http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/ 17:27:25 above link is where to see the final product 17:28:05 js: best practice...make many small changes, and commit individually with comments on what was done 17:28:25 ... april 10 updated 1.9.1 17:29:17 js: if doing a proposal...could fork the spec, do proposal in the fork, and send everyone a link 17:30:17 ... fork to your account, and send a link to your account (not the UAAG doc). 17:31:24 js: forking allows creating a new branch, when finalized, it can be merged with the 'master' document 17:33:56 zakim, close item 2 17:33:56 agendum 2, using Git, closed 17:33:57 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:33:57 3. Review edits to the Abstract in response to EO comments EO01 & EO02. [from allanj] 17:34:03 agenda? 17:35:19 zakim, open item 5 17:35:19 agendum 5. "webtv a11y use cases" taken up [from allanj] 17:36:41 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Use_Case 17:37:16 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page 17:38:18 waiting for coordination with other parties. 17:41:14 zakim, close item 5 17:41:14 agendum 5, webtv a11y use cases, closed 17:41:15 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:41:15 3. Review edits to the Abstract in response to EO comments EO01 & EO02. [from allanj] 17:41:22 open item 3 17:43:01 URL? 17:43:30 http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#abstract 17:44:39 original: 17:44:44 UAAG 2.0 guides developers in designing user agents that make the Web more accessible to people with disabilities. User agents include browsers, media players and applications that retrieve and render Web content. A user agent that follows UAAG 2.0 will improve accessibility through its own user interface and its ability to communicate with other technologies, including assistive technologies. UAA 17:44:46 G and supporting resources are also intended to meet the needs of different audiences, including developers, policy makers, and managers. All users, not just users with disabilities, will benefit from user agents that follow UAAG 2.0. 17:44:48 In addition to helping developers of browsers and media players, UAAG 2.0 benefits developers of assistive technologies because it explains what types of information and control an assistive technology may expect from a user agent that follows UAAG 2.0. Assistive technologies not addressed directly by UAAG 2.0 (e.g. braille rendering) are still essential to ensuring Web access for some users... 17:44:49 ...with disabilities. 17:44:51 The "User Agent Accessibility Guidelines 2.0" (UAAG 2.0) is part of a series of accessibility guidelines published by the W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). 17:45:05 proposed: 17:45:18 Comment spreadsheet: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html 17:45:19 UAAG 2.0 guides developers in designing user agents that make the Web more accessible to people with disabilities. User agents include browsers, media players and applications that retrieve and render Web content. A user agent that follows UAAG 2.0 will improve accessibility through its own user interface and its ability to communicate with other technologies, including assistive technologies. UAA 17:45:21 G and supporting resources are also intended to meet the needs of different audiences, including developers, policy makers, and managers. All users, not just users with disabilities, will benefit from user agents that follow UAAG 2.0. 17:45:22 In addition to helping developers of browsers and media players, UAAG 2.0 benefits developers of assistive technologies because it explains what types of information and control an assistive technology may expect from a user agent that follows UAAG 2.0. Assistive technologies not addressed directly by UAAG 2.0 (e.g. braille rendering) are still essential to ensuring Web access for some users... 17:45:24 ...with disabilities. 17:45:25 The "User Agent Accessibility Guidelines 2.0" (UAAG 2.0) is part of a series of accessibility guidelines published by the W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). 17:46:36 LC version 17:46:41 UAAG 2.0 provides guidelines for designing user agents that lower barriers to Web accessibility for people with disabilities. User agents include browsers, media players and applications that retrieve and render Web content. A user agent that conforms to these guidelines will promote accessibility through its own user interface and its ability to communicate with other technologies (especially ass 17:46:43 istive technologies). All users, not just users with disabilities, should find conforming user agents to be more usable. 17:46:45 In addition to helping developers of browsers and media players, UAAG 2.0 will benefit developers of assistive technologies because it explains what types of information and control an assistive technology may expect from a conforming user agent. Technologies not addressed directly by UAAG 2.0 (e.g. assistive technologies for braille rendering) will be essential to ensuring Web access for... 17:46:46 ...some users with disabilities. 17:46:48 The "User Agent Accessibility Guidelines 2.0" (UAAG 2.0) is part of a series of accessibility guidelines published by the W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). 17:47:01 proposed change 17:47:06 UAAG 2.0 guides developers in designing user agents that make the Web more accessible to people with disabilities. User agents include browsers, media players and applications that retrieve and render Web content. A user agent that follows UAAG 2.0 will improve accessibility through its own user interface and its ability to communicate with other technologies, including assistive technologies. UAA 17:47:07 G and supporting resources are also intended to meet the needs of different audiences, including developers, policy makers, and managers. All users, not just users with disabilities, will benefit from user agents that follow UAAG 2.0. 17:47:09 In addition to helping developers of browsers and media players, UAAG 2.0 benefits developers of assistive technologies because it explains what types of information and control an assistive technology may expect from a user agent that follows UAAG 2.0. Assistive technologies not addressed directly by UAAG 2.0 (e.g. braille rendering) are still essential to ensuring Web access for some users... 17:47:10 ...with disabilities. 17:47:12 The "User Agent Accessibility Guidelines 2.0" (UAAG 2.0) is part of a series of accessibility guidelines published by the W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). 17:49:27 jr: not sure it is really an abstract to the document. reads more like a section on "who will benefit" 17:50:12 ... should touch on 5 areas/principles 17:50:26 eric: agree 17:51:12 ... something about conformance is needed 17:51:34 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#abstract 17:51:37 kp: tried to address the comment, but seems the abstract should be an abstract 17:51:47 action: jeanne to revise the Abstract to include more about the document structure: Principles, levels, conformance, and structure (principle, guideline, success criteria 17:51:47 Created ACTION-969 - Revise the abstract to include more about the document structure: principles, levels, conformance, and structure (principle, guideline, success criteria [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-24]. 17:52:41 zakim, close item 17:52:41 I don't understand 'close item', allanj 17:52:58 zakim, close item 3 17:52:58 agendum 3, Review edits to the Abstract in response to EO comments EO01 & EO02., closed 17:53:00 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 17:53:00 4. review comments start at AP02 [from allanj] 17:53:47 Topi AP02 2.6.1 access and activation of input methods 17:53:57 Topic: AP02 2.6.1 access and activation of input methods 17:54:16 comment: In the specific case of this one: 2.6.1 Allow Access and Activation of Input Methods: I'm hopeful this one will be solved by IndieUI Events. 17:55:03 2.6.1 Allow Access and Activation of Input Methods: The user agent provides a means for the user to determine recognized input methods explicitly associated with an element, and a means for the user to activate those methods in a modality independent manner. (Level AA) 17:56:01 gl: IndieUI doesn't exist yet 17:56:29 js: we can only mention it informatively. 17:56:30 Could include a link to IndieUI in our Related Resources. 17:57:20 response: UAAG will add a link to IndieUI in the Implementing Resources section for 2.6.1 17:57:42 rrsagent, make minutes 17:57:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-minutes.html jeanne 17:57:56 rrsagent, make logs public 17:59:23 topic: CR01 general comment 18:00:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2014Jan/0001.html 18:00:29 limiting the user configuration, what about using extensions? 18:00:44 would chrome be compliant is using extensions? 18:01:51 gl: would be compliant, very similar to AP01 (user style sheets, user scripting) 18:02:10 We certainly allow use of extensions. We can adapt the wording we came up with AP01, which was "In order to claim compliance, the claimant must demonstrate that solutions, and any required additional components, are available to non-expert users. Enabling the creation of such solutions is not by itself sufficient." 18:03:06 We could add "We strongly recommend any such extensions or add-ons be included with the product, even if they are not active by default." 18:03:39 ja; concerns about UAs changing and extensions no longer working 18:05:12 ... would want browser developed extensions that are updated with new versions of the UA 18:05:55 wuwei has joined #ua 18:07:17 eric: nothing in the conformance specifies whether the extension is activated or not. for platform claimant must state the actual configuration changes made to the platform 18:08:04 ... conformance says document the extensions used, but not whether they must be activated or are included with the install 18:08:40 jr: every browser has its own way of handling extensions 18:08:49 We already ask for: 18:08:52 Name and manufacturer 18:08:53 Version number or version range 18:08:55 Required patches or updates, human language of the user interface and documentation 18:08:56 Configuration changes to the user agent that are needed to meet the success criteria (e.g. ignore author foreground/background color, turn on Carat Browsing) 18:08:58 Plugins or extensions (including version numbers) needed to meet the success criteria (e.g. mouseless browsing) 18:09:10 +EricP 18:10:11 eric: this should cover it. 18:10:40 jr: wouldn't mind adding some language about turn extension on. 18:11:32 WW: introduces self, and a bit about WebTV, developing a11y requirements 18:13:08 ... comments, use cases due end of Mam 18:13:17 s/Mam/May 18:13:38 WW to come to meeting in 2 weeks to discuss WebTV 18:15:16 ja: seems "turning on extension" wording would be picky 18:16:17 jr: change the order of the list plugins first then configuration, would solve the problem 18:16:40 EDITS: 18:16:41 Name and manufacturer 18:16:42 Version number or version range 18:16:44 Required patches or updates, human language of the user interface and documentation 18:16:45 Plugins or extensions (including version numbers) needed to meet the success criteria (e.g. mouseless browsing) 18:16:47 Configuration changes to the user agent, plugins and/or extensions that are needed to meet the success criteria (e.g. ignore author foreground/background color, turn on Carat Browsing) 18:16:57 +1 18:17:49 action: jeanne to draft sentences for the Introduction with Kim to make it more clear that extensions are allowed to meet conformance. 18:17:49 Created ACTION-970 - Draft sentences for the introduction with kim to make it more clear that extensions are allowed to meet conformance. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-24]. 18:18:08 eric: +1 to reinforce extensions. 18:19:23 action: jeanne to craft response statement to CR01 based on AP01 and stuff in minutes above 18:19:23 Created ACTION-971 - Craft response statement to cr01 based on ap01 and stuff in minutes above [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-24]. 18:21:38 eric: should also reinforce platform capabilities in the draft of the Abstract for action 970 18:21:53 topic: CR02 guideline 1.4 18:23:12 concerned about line, font settings 18:23:38 js: we have another comment on this, seems our approach is flawed. 18:23:52 ... comments are saying we are too specific. 18:24:10 .... we are too html and css centric, and specific 18:25:00 gl: sent comments for CR in January 18:25:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0016.html 18:27:25 DM: * Settings that allow the user 18:29:15 -Jan 18:29:19 -Kim_Patch 18:29:21 -Eric 18:29:22 -Jim_Allan 18:29:28 -Greg_Lowney 18:29:31 -wuwei 18:29:31 rrsagent, make minutes 18:29:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:30:00 zakim, please part 18:30:00 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Jan, Eric, wuwei 18:30:00 Zakim has left #ua 18:30:05 rrsagent, make minutes 18:30:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:30:45 rrsagent, please part 18:30:45 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-actions.rdf : 18:30:45 ACTION: jeanne to revise the Abstract to include more about the document structure: Principles, levels, conformance, and structure (principle, guideline, success criteria [1] 18:30:45 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-irc#T17-51-47 18:30:45 ACTION: jeanne to draft sentences for the Introduction with Kim to make it more clear that extensions are allowed to meet conformance. [2] 18:30:45 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-irc#T18-17-49 18:30:45 ACTION: jeanne to craft response statement to CR01 based on AP01 and stuff in minutes above [3] 18:30:45 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-ua-irc#T18-19-23