IRC log of webtv on 2014-04-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:00:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-irc
13:00:24 [kaz]
zakim, this will be webtv
13:00:24 [Zakim]
ok, kaz, I see UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM already started
13:00:27 [bgidon]
zakim, mute me
13:00:27 [Zakim]
bgidon should now be muted
13:00:30 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:00:30 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
13:00:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.946.aabb
13:00:33 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:00:34 [gmandyam]
gmandyam has joined #webtv
13:00:43 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:00:43 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
13:00:44 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
13:00:46 [Bin_Hu]
zakim, aabb is me
13:00:47 [Zakim]
+Bin_Hu; got it
13:00:54 [Zakim]
+gmandyam
13:01:04 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:01:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [GVoice], bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu (muted), [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, gmandyam
13:01:06 [ddavis]
ddavis has joined #webtv
13:01:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:01:11 [Zakim]
+Karen_Myers
13:01:19 [Zakim]
+Mark_Vickers
13:01:22 [giuseppep]
giuseppep has joined #webtv
13:01:23 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:01:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [GVoice], bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu (muted), [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, gmandyam, Karen_Myers, Mark_Vickers
13:01:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:01:45 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
13:01:53 [wuwei]
wuwei has joined #webtv
13:02:03 [giuseppep]
zakim, IPcaller is me
13:02:03 [Zakim]
+giuseppep; got it
13:02:14 [karen]
karen has joined #webtv
13:02:15 [kaz]
zakim, IPcaller.a is skim13
13:02:16 [Zakim]
+skim13; got it
13:02:21 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:02:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [GVoice], bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu, giuseppep, Kazuyuki, gmandyam, Karen_Myers, Mark_Vickers, skim13
13:02:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:02:27 [Zakim]
+??P33
13:02:29 [ddavis]
zakim, ??P33 is me
13:02:29 [Zakim]
+ddavis; got it
13:02:51 [Zakim]
-ddavis
13:02:52 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:02:54 [jcverdie]
the call is now?
13:02:54 [Zakim]
+EricP
13:03:01 [jcverdie]
forgot daylight saving :(
13:03:07 [Zakim]
+Daniel_Wester
13:03:13 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:03:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [GVoice], bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu, giuseppep, Kazuyuki, gmandyam, Karen_Myers, Mark_Vickers, skim13, [IPcaller], EricP, Daniel_Wester
13:03:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:03:26 [Zakim]
+Paul_Higgs
13:03:41 [giuseppep]
zakim, GVoice is elindstrom
13:03:41 [Zakim]
+elindstrom; got it
13:03:46 [paul_higgs]
paul_higgs has joined #webtv
13:03:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.370.aacc
13:03:56 [yosuke]
yosuke has joined #webtv
13:04:06 [kaz]
zakim, IPcaller is phil
13:04:07 [Zakim]
+phil; got it
13:04:12 [Zakim]
+??P38
13:04:14 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:04:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see elindstrom, bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu, giuseppep, Kazuyuki, gmandyam, Karen_Myers, Mark_Vickers, skim13, phil, wuwei, Daniel_Wester, Paul_Higgs,
13:04:17 [ddavis]
zakim, ??P38 is me
13:04:18 [Zakim]
... +1.818.370.aacc, ??P38
13:04:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot,
13:04:19 [Zakim]
... tobie__
13:04:19 [Zakim]
+pal
13:04:19 [Zakim]
+ddavis; got it
13:04:22 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Sullivan
13:04:24 [CyrilRa]
CyrilRa has joined #webtv
13:04:26 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:04:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see elindstrom, bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu, giuseppep, Kazuyuki, gmandyam, Karen_Myers, Mark_Vickers, skim13, phil, wuwei, Daniel_Wester, Paul_Higgs,
13:04:29 [Zakim]
... +1.818.370.aacc, ddavis, pal, Bryan_Sullivan
13:04:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see CyrilRa, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS,
13:04:29 [Zakim]
... trackbot, tobie__
13:04:33 [ddavis]
Scribe: Daniel
13:04:34 [Zakim]
+ +33.6.77.84.aadd
13:04:36 [ddavis]
scribenick: ddavis
13:04:40 [ddavis]
chair: giuseppep
13:04:44 [kaz]
zakim, where is +33?
13:04:44 [Zakim]
country code 33 is France
13:04:45 [pal]
pal has joined #webtv
13:04:50 [Zakim]
+ +81.80.594.3.aaee
13:05:04 [kaz]
zakim, where is +81?
13:05:04 [Zakim]
country code 81 is Japan
13:05:05 [jcverdie]
the conference is full :(
13:05:11 [kaz]
zakim, who is noisy?
13:05:22 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Kazuyuki (8%), phil (40%)
13:05:26 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
13:05:26 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
13:05:33 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:05:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see elindstrom, bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu, giuseppep, Kazuyuki, gmandyam, Karen_Myers, Mark_Vickers, skim13, phil, wuwei, Daniel_Wester, Paul_Higgs,
13:05:36 [bryan]
bryan has joined #webtv
13:05:37 [Zakim]
... +1.818.370.aacc, ddavis (muted), pal, Bryan_Sullivan, +33.6.77.84.aadd, +81.80.594.3.aaee
13:05:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pal, CyrilRa, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_,
13:05:37 [Zakim]
... MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:05:38 [jcverdie]
kaz, sorry i can't call, the conference is full :(
13:05:42 [jcdufourd]
jcdufourd has joined #webtv
13:05:47 [pal]
zakim, who is talking?
13:05:48 [bryan]
present+ Bryan_Sullivan
13:05:49 [jcverdie]
zakim, call me
13:05:49 [Zakim]
Sorry, jcverdie; you need to be more specific about your location
13:05:57 [Zakim]
pal, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: giuseppep (25%), phil (62%), wuwei (10%)
13:05:59 [yosuke]
The conference is full.
13:06:09 [jcdufourd]
present+ JeanClaude_Dufourd
13:06:26 [jcverdie]
present+ JC Verdie (on IRC, phone bridge is full)
13:06:52 [bryan]
we are looking into expanding the bridge...
13:07:44 [jcdufourd]
zakim, who is here
13:07:44 [Zakim]
jcdufourd, you need to end that query with '?'
13:07:49 [jcdufourd]
zakim, who is here ?
13:07:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see elindstrom, bgidon (muted), +325045aaaa, Bin_Hu, giuseppep, Kazuyuki, gmandyam, Karen_Myers, Mark_Vickers, skim13, phil, wuwei, Daniel_Wester, Paul_Higgs,
13:07:51 [kaz]
zakim, room for 30
13:07:53 [Zakim]
... +1.818.370.aacc, ddavis (muted), pal, Bryan_Sullivan, +33.6.77.84.aadd, +81.80.594.3.aaee
13:07:53 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jcdufourd, bryan, pal, CyrilRa, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie,
13:07:53 [kaz]
zakim, room for 30?
13:07:54 [Zakim]
... schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:07:54 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'room for 30', kaz
13:07:57 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; conference Team_(webtv)13:07Z scheduled with code 26633 (CONF3) for 60 minutes until 1407Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
13:08:30 [Zakim]
-Paul_Higgs
13:08:31 [kawada]
kawada has joined #webtv
13:08:35 [Zakim]
-pal
13:08:36 [Zakim]
-Mark_Vickers
13:08:45 [Zakim]
-bgidon
13:08:51 [yosuke]
present+ Yosuke Funahashi
13:08:53 [Zakim]
- +33.6.77.84.aadd
13:08:57 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
13:09:02 [Zakim]
-gmandyam
13:09:04 [Zakim]
-elindstrom
13:09:04 [Zakim]
-Karen_Myers
13:09:05 [bryan]
drop and call back with 26633
13:09:06 [Zakim]
- +1.818.370.aacc
13:09:07 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
13:09:07 [Zakim]
-Daniel_Wester
13:09:08 [Zakim]
-wuwei
13:09:09 [Zakim]
-skim13
13:09:10 [Zakim]
-Bin_Hu
13:09:11 [Zakim]
- +325045aaaa
13:09:13 [Zakim]
-giuseppep
13:09:14 [Zakim]
-phil
13:09:19 [kaz]
zakim, this will be team_(webtv)
13:09:19 [Zakim]
ok, kaz, I see Team_(webtv)13:07Z already started
13:09:22 [ddavis]
All: Please dial in again using code 26633 (CONF3).
13:09:22 [Zakim]
+bgidon
13:09:26 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:09:26 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
13:09:27 [Zakim]
+Daniel_Wester
13:09:31 [Zakim]
+[GVoice]
13:09:33 [Zakim]
+ +33.6.77.84.aaaa
13:09:36 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Sullivan
13:09:37 [Zakim]
+pal
13:09:41 [Zakim]
+Bin_Hu
13:09:41 [Zakim]
+gmandyam
13:09:44 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:09:44 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
13:09:45 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
13:09:46 [Zakim]
+Jean-Charles
13:09:46 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:09:48 [Zakim]
+EricP
13:09:49 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
13:09:50 [Zakim]
+Karen_Myers
13:09:57 [bgidon]
zakim, mute me
13:09:57 [Zakim]
bgidon should now be muted
13:09:59 [Andy_Hickman_DTVL]
Andy_Hickman_DTVL has joined #webtv
13:10:02 [jcverdie]
zakim, mute me
13:10:02 [Zakim]
sorry, jcverdie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
13:10:02 [kaz]
zkaim, who is here?
13:10:04 [jcdufourd]
zakim, +33.6.77.84.aaaa is JeanClaude_Dufourd
13:10:04 [Zakim]
+JeanClaude_Dufourd; got it
13:10:21 [Zakim]
+??P41
13:10:23 [ddavis]
zakim, ??P41 is me
13:10:23 [Zakim]
+ddavis; got it
13:10:27 [jcverdie]
Zakim, Jean-Charles is me
13:10:27 [Zakim]
+jcverdie; got it
13:10:27 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
13:10:28 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
13:10:32 [jcverdie]
zakim, mute me
13:10:32 [Zakim]
jcverdie should now be muted
13:10:37 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:10:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:10:41 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, EricP, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted)
13:10:41 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Andy_Hickman_DTVL, kawada, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, CyrilRa, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu,
13:10:41 [Zakim]
... elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:10:43 [jon]
jon has joined #webtv
13:10:43 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.aa]
13:10:53 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.aaa]
13:10:53 [ddavis]
Meeting: Web & TV IG meeting - TV workshop follow-up
13:10:54 [w3c]
w3c has joined #webtv
13:11:17 [Zakim]
+ +81.80.594.3.aabb
13:11:25 [kaz]
[ please access http://irc.w3.org and use #webtv as the IRC channel ]
13:11:28 [Zakim]
+ +325045aacc
13:11:50 [ddavis]
Reminder: The call code has changed - please us 26633 (CONF3), NOT 932881 (WEBTV1)
13:11:53 [wwu]
wwu has joined #webtv
13:12:20 [ddavis]
Reminder: The call code has changed - please us 26633 (CONF3), NOT 932881 (WEBTV1)
13:12:34 [wwu]
wwu has joined #webtv
13:13:00 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:13:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:13:03 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, EricP, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], +81.80.594.3.aabb, +325045aacc
13:13:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wwu, w3c, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, kawada, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, CyrilRa, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, wuwei, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz,
13:13:03 [Zakim]
... Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:13:28 [Admin__]
Admin__ has joined #webtv
13:13:42 [giuseppep]
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nQGA_g6Zp1mbO75LFVEzzHDOwxDjTjiFRas4KoF1i7M/edit#slide=id.p28
13:13:58 [CyrilRa]
CyrilRa has joined #webtv
13:14:32 [CyrilRa]
Missed the link to presentation. Can you repost
13:14:39 [giuseppep]
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nQGA_g6Zp1mbO75LFVEzzHDOwxDjTjiFRas4KoF1i7M/edit#slide=id.p28
13:15:08 [ddavis]
Yes
13:15:19 [kaz]
topic: workshop next steps
13:15:52 [giuseppep]
https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Agenda_and_Minutes/Agenda_Telco_16th_April_2014
13:16:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.370.aadd
13:16:36 [kaz]
zakim, who is ehre?
13:16:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, kaz.
13:16:39 [kawada]
zakim, 81.80.594.3.aabb is me
13:16:39 [Zakim]
sorry, kawada, I do not recognize a party named '81.80.594.3.aabb'
13:16:44 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:16:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:16:47 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, EricP, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], +81.80.594.3.aabb, +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd
13:16:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see CyrilRa, Admin__, wwu, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, kawada, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim,
13:16:47 [Zakim]
... bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:17:01 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The workshop was held in Munich a few weeks ago
13:17:23 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The slides for the next steps are here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nQGA_g6Zp1mbO75LFVEzzHDOwxDjTjiFRas4KoF1i7M/edit#slide=id.p28
13:17:46 [wuwei]
wuwei has joined #webtv
13:17:49 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Firstly, there was a presentation on a new initiative called GGIE by Glenn.
13:17:57 [kawada]
zakim, +81.80.594.3.aabb is me
13:17:57 [Zakim]
+kawada; got it
13:18:01 [karen]
Scribenick: Daniel Davis
13:18:16 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There was a discussion on use cases and requirements which we also do at W3C.
13:18:18 [bgidon]
zakim, mute me
13:18:19 [Zakim]
bgidon was already muted, bgidon
13:18:20 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:18:24 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:18:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:18:38 [Zakim]
+??P54
13:18:47 [ddavis]
giuseppep: I don't we have much next to do with regards to GGIE.
13:19:16 [ddavis]
Glenn: The group is meeting in a couple of weeks to discuss the charter and then we can come back to W3C to see if there's any overlap.
13:19:17 [Zakim]
+ +41.22.717.aaee
13:19:24 [ddavis]
@@@: Is GGIE a W3C activity?
13:19:44 [ddavis]
Glenn: No, it supports other standards bodies including W3C, IETF, etc.
13:19:56 [ddavis]
Glenn: We're not sure yet where are "home" would be.
13:20:18 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The slides are linked from the workshop agenda: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/tv-workshop/agenda.html
13:20:38 [kaz]
-> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/tv-workshop/slides/Session8_GGIE-W3C-web&tv-March-2014.pptx GGIE slides
13:20:58 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Next is synchronization of media and metadata.
13:21:21 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:21:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:21:23 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Many of these things are spread across existing specs
13:21:24 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, EricP, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], kawada, +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, +41.22.717.aaee
13:21:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, kawada, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon,
13:21:24 [Zakim]
... kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:22:23 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There isn't any significant activity we can do, but the IG mailing list can be used to raise awareness of issues that could be reported as bugs.
13:22:37 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Do people agree?
13:22:44 [jcverdie]
+1
13:22:55 [ddavis]
Jean-pierre: I don't remember having such a deep discussion about metadata.
13:23:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: This is more about integration of existing specs and HTML5 spec.
13:23:36 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Do you remember something different?
13:23:51 [ddavis]
giuseppep: I'll mail a link to the slides I'm sharing.
13:24:44 [ddavis]
N.b. GGIE is "The Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem"
13:26:25 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If we agree on the conclusion, I'm moving to slide #4 - testing.
13:26:56 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Note that the slides are not automatic - you have to click on each slide.
13:27:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There was a discussion about testing which is very important.
13:27:23 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There was a request to understand more about what W3C is doing.
13:27:33 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There's a need for more test cases.
13:27:42 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Also, a discussion about what testing actually means.
13:27:50 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Different people may have different goals.
13:28:09 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If resources/tests are out there, do they match testing requirements?
13:28:35 [ddavis]
giuseppep: What possibility is to use the IG or some other group to get a better idea of what's out there
13:28:47 [ddavis]
giuseppep: And maybe have a Test The Web Forward event for TV.
13:29:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The conclusion was the IG could facilitate a conversation.
13:29:24 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There is already a working group and interest group.
13:29:31 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Any comments so far?
13:29:33 [bryan]
q+
13:29:56 [kaz]
ack b
13:29:56 [ddavis]
@@@: We used to have a Testing Task Force within this IG. It produced analysis of what is needed for TV testing.
13:30:03 [kaz]
s/@@@/bryan/
13:30:06 [ddavis]
@@@: A lot of effort was put in - where did it go?
13:30:09 [kaz]
s/@@@/bryan/
13:30:15 [bryan]
kaz that was not me
13:30:54 [kaz]
q+ bryan
13:30:54 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Since the activity of developing steps actually got stopped, there was no progress.
13:31:16 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: There was a lot of effort around testing. There was a set of requirements that we published.
13:31:19 [kaz]
s/bryan:/@@@:/
13:31:20 [kaz]
s/bryan:/@@@:/
13:31:45 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: What it said was we need a centralised placed for tests and have them run in a consistent way.
13:31:58 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: Some of that work has been done. We have centralised tests.
13:32:18 [paul_higgs]
I asked the question
13:32:18 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: The big challenge was getting better coverage of tests and for that, W3C built a detailed test plan.
13:32:35 [kaz]
s/@@@:/paul:/g
13:32:42 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: This required possibly more staff, definitely more funding but W3C didn't receive any money.
13:33:18 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: There is still effort going on and contributions by browser vendors. There is a backlog of tests and a requirement for test reviews.
13:33:39 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: So there's the opportunity for people to contribute tests and reviews, or funding for testing.
13:33:52 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: The depth of coverage is going to take a lot longer to improve.
13:34:00 [bryan]
can we follow the queue?
13:34:06 [ddavis]
paul_higgs: Which group should we take ideas to?
13:34:41 [igarashi]
igarashi has joined #webtv
13:34:53 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:34:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:34:57 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, wuwei, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], kawada, +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, +41.22.717.aaee
13:34:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see igarashi, wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, kawada, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim,
13:34:58 [Zakim]
... bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:35:00 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: I would contact the people within each working group
13:35:22 [ddavis]
bryan: I gave an overview of the testing effort at the workshop.
13:35:38 [ddavis]
bryan: The testing IG is not going to do anything for you, and probably not the WGs either.
13:35:59 [ddavis]
bryan: This TV IG needs to focus much more specifically about what's needed for certain test cases.
13:36:14 [ddavis]
bryan: Just saying fill the gaps is not enough to make headway.
13:36:29 [ddavis]
bryan: This TV IG needs someone to focus the work and contribute resources to do that.
13:36:38 [Zakim]
+??P9
13:36:54 [ddavis]
bryan: I suggest you take a look at your existing HTML5 STB - map the features to web technologies, e.g. CSS opacity, etc.
13:37:11 [ddavis]
bryan: Define which features are used and decide which tests are needed.
13:37:21 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:37:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:37:24 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, wuwei, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], kawada, +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, +41.22.717.aaee, ??P9
13:37:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see igarashi, wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, kawada, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim,
13:37:26 [Zakim]
... bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:37:30 [darobin]
darobin has joined #webtv
13:37:34 [ddavis]
giuseppep: What's missing is where the tests are and tools are?
13:37:54 [ddavis]
bryan: The community has to serve itself. I said we should do this on the wiki.
13:38:06 [ddavis]
bryan: We should detail how to do this for ourselves.
13:38:28 [ddavis]
bryan: We have to jump in - the people who know how to run tests have to lead the others. No-one else will do it for you.
13:38:42 [ddavis]
paul_higgs: We need to be in charge of our own destiny.
13:38:53 [ddavis]
paul_higgs: We should collect the tests for the TV environment.
13:39:18 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: I strongly disagree with this. The old testing group was closed down but there is a new one and a structure for submitting tests.
13:39:18 [bryan]
what is the active group, mark?
13:39:28 [Zakim]
+??P11
13:39:32 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: If you want to submit tests, there is a process and existing group to do that.
13:39:43 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: I don't think we should collect our own group of tests.
13:39:54 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: There's a good test plan and what's missing is people to do the tests.
13:40:03 [ddavis]
paul_higgs: I think we agree but we're saying it differently.
13:40:11 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:40:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:40:14 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, wuwei, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], kawada, +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, +41.22.717.aaee, ??P9, ??P11
13:40:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see darobin, igarashi, wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, kawada, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam,
13:40:14 [Zakim]
... RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:40:18 [ddavis]
bryan: There's no W3C group any more, it's hidden behind GitHub.
13:40:29 [ddavis]
bryan: Right now there is no focussed effort.
13:40:45 [ddavis]
bryan: Somebody has to coordinate and organise the effort.
13:41:18 [ddavis]
giuseppep: People want to contribute test cases but they want to know where they go. And they want to know what tools are there.
13:41:43 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The requirement is there.
13:41:58 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There is a need for someone to drive this.
13:42:08 [ddavis]
giuseppep: As it stands it's a bit confusing.
13:42:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: How to move forward on this?
13:42:41 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Maybe Clarke would be willing?
13:42:54 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: Are you talking about getting a task force going again?
13:43:06 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If everyone works on their own things could fall apart.
13:43:10 [bryan]
the only mechanism of communicating with the "group" is the test-infra mailing list, and following the discussions on github (pull requests, bugs etc)
13:43:17 [ddavis]
giuseppep: I.e. if we just provide people links.
13:43:25 [ddavis]
bryan: I agree we should start with links.
13:43:49 [ddavis]
bryan: We have to identify what tests are there.
13:43:56 [ddavis]
bryan: Right now there is no guidance.
13:44:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Please could one of you send an email to the list summarising these points?
13:44:22 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Maybe in the next call we could cover this.
13:44:32 [ddavis]
bryan: I said we could do something to help fill this gap.
13:44:38 [kaz]
zakim, code?
13:44:38 [Zakim]
the conference code is 26633 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), kaz
13:44:46 [ddavis]
bryan: Help to explain how to get engaged and what to focus on.
13:45:00 [darobin]
may I suggest you email public-test-infra with questions, comments, and grievances?
13:45:16 [ddavis]
giuseppep: In two weeks time we'll review it.
13:45:54 [ddavis]
@@@: There's a view that if you've got a lot of money and engineers, all the problems would be solved.
13:45:58 [kawada_]
kawada_ has joined #webtv
13:45:58 [darobin]
public-test-infra is there to help and is very helpful (also #testing)
13:46:05 [ddavis]
@@@: But I don't believe that's the case.
13:46:15 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
13:46:26 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +41.22.717.aaee (9%), ??P9 (4%)
13:46:30 [darobin]
I strongly suggest that any work on testing in WebTV be coordinated there, it will avoid confusion, duplication, mistakes, etc.
13:46:36 [ddavis]
@@@: I don't think you'd end up with something that HbbTV or IPTV Forum Japan could use. There's no way to handle test IDs, test waivers and certification.
13:46:50 [ddavis]
@@@: Some of the basic infrastructure is not there and I can't see it happening.
13:47:05 [bryan]
robin, people don't know about those tools of communication - we can start by letting them know. but what this group needs most is to decide what features are important and to put resources onto those tests, reviewing, developing, whatever
13:47:06 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: In the DLNA we've referenced W3C tests for some time.
13:47:32 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: It's not a testing organisation so you're not going to get full infrastructure such as waivers. The referencing groups should do that.
13:47:34 [darobin]
bryan: I think you'd be more successful deciding what to do by interacting with public-test-infra right away
13:47:50 [darobin]
giuseppep: no, but if it's really useful I can kill this other thing I'm doing in parallel
13:47:53 [bryan]
robin, I will do that
13:47:56 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: W3C is a place where the tests should be reviewed and seen to be technically correct, and hold a repository of the tests.
13:48:25 [ddavis]
@@@: I agree with that, but what I would hope is that the infrastructure has some support in other organisations.
13:48:27 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
13:48:36 [ddavis]
@@@: E.g. they need unique IDs and version numbers.
13:48:37 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
13:48:47 [jon]
The speaker is Andy Hickman from DTVL.
13:48:58 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.aaaa]
13:48:59 [ddavis]
bryan: HbbTV has an exacting requirement for tests.
13:49:06 [darobin]
Zakim, [IPcaller.aaaa] is me
13:49:06 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
13:49:10 [ddavis]
bryan: That level of mapping, etc. does not exist in W3C.
13:49:16 [kaz]
s/@@@:/andy:/
13:49:18 [kaz]
s/@@@:/andy:/g
13:49:23 [ddavis]
bryan: That needs to exist to make it happen.
13:49:25 [Zakim]
+??P56
13:49:30 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:49:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:49:33 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, wuwei, [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], kawada, +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, +41.22.717.aaee, ??P9,
13:49:34 [Zakim]
... ??P11, darobin, ??P56
13:49:34 [Zakim]
On IRC I see kawada, darobin, wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim,
13:49:38 [Zakim]
... bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:49:42 [ddavis]
@@@: It's hard for third parties to reference in a robust way.
13:50:09 [kaz]
s/@@@:/andy:/
13:50:40 [ddavis]
giuseppep: So it's not an issue of contribution but of how they are maintained.
13:50:40 [bryan]
the problem is that W3C tests has been developed in an adhoc way with little specific guidelines or consistency on metadata, linking to spec/test assertions, etc. that is one of the key gaps for utility in certification programs. this was a comment I made at the workshop.
13:50:58 [ddavis]
giuseppep: (scribe missed that)
13:51:26 [darobin]
bryan: that is not true, they are largely consistent — metadata is simply considered to be of lesser importance, and something that can easily be provided externally
13:51:33 [bryan]
it was also one of the goals for the Web Testing IG that have so far not been realized - how to change the process of test documentation and development to obtain more rigor.
13:51:33 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Next step - you (Bryan? Robin?) will send out information then I'll try to summarise the issues that have been raised.
13:51:41 [darobin]
q+
13:51:48 [bryan]
q-
13:51:48 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:51:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:51:54 [igarashi]
igarashi has joined #webtv
13:52:02 [ddavis]
andy: Do you know what the next step is?
13:52:25 [Zakim]
-kawada
13:52:26 [ddavis]
giuseppep: My understanding was that if there was no clear direction then it's not worth taking this to the testing group.
13:52:35 [kaz]
i/workshop was held/scribenick: ddavis/
13:52:37 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:52:42 [kawada]
zakim, ??P11 is me
13:52:42 [Zakim]
+kawada; got it
13:52:49 [bryan]
robin, OK I agree that if metadata needs to be provided externally, that is a solution if the underlying tests are structured in at least a stable, granular way. This group can provide that "external" augmentation. That's the "focus" I am talking about.
13:53:01 [ddavis]
giuseppep: My proposal would be to not rush anything until we see that there are good tools out there that could be used.
13:53:04 [ddavis]
q+
13:53:10 [darobin]
bryan, that's certainly something we can handle
13:53:26 [ddavis]
zakim, unmute me
13:53:27 [Zakim]
ddavis should no longer be muted
13:53:28 [kaz]
q?
13:53:40 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
13:53:40 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
13:53:50 [kaz]
i/There was a discussion on/scribenick: ddavis/
13:53:52 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:53:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:54:08 [kaz]
q?
13:54:13 [kaz]
ack darobin
13:54:14 [ddavis]
darobin: Robin here. I work for W3C managing publication of HTML spec and help with testing effort.
13:54:35 [ddavis]
darobin: It would be useful if any discussion of testing could be coordinated with public-test-infra mailing list.
13:54:47 [ddavis]
darobin: There's been a lot of hearsay and misunderstanding.
13:55:03 [ddavis]
darobin: The testing list is friendly and helpful.
13:55:17 [MarkVickers]
public-test-infra@w3.org
13:55:19 [ddavis]
darobin: Things are moving fast in terms of resources and documentation.
13:55:30 [bryan]
internally, we are starting here... how to build test runner scripts based upon the existing tests in the repository, that execute the tests we are more interested in - that's one of the basic metadata items - what set of tests do you want to run. Then when we have found gaps, reviewing/developing the tests for them.
13:55:42 [ddavis]
darobin: Don't hesitate to ask someone from the testing group to join in your discussion.
13:55:57 [kaz]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-test-infra/ testing infra email archive
13:56:08 [yosuke]
s/resources/infrastructure, resources,/
13:56:15 [ddavis]
giuseppep: When you send that mail, Bryan, please include the testing mailing list.
13:56:31 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:56:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:56:33 [ddavis]
bryan: Will do. Sorry if it seems I don't appreciate the effort - I do but I think it's better if we work as a test.
13:56:35 [ddavis]
ack ddavis
13:56:36 [MarkVickers]
I encourage anyone to take any questions to public-test-infra@w3.org
13:56:40 [ddavis]
zakim, mute me
13:56:40 [Zakim]
ddavis should now be muted
13:56:46 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
13:56:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, bgidon (muted), Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted),
13:56:49 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller], Kazuyuki, wuwei (muted), [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, +41.22.717.aaee, ??P9,
13:56:49 [Zakim]
... kawada, darobin, ??P56
13:56:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see igarashi, kawada, darobin, wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam,
13:56:52 [darobin]
+1 to working as a team, hence the suggestion to discuss with the testing team :)
13:56:54 [Zakim]
... RRSAgent, Zakim, bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
13:56:54 [Zakim]
- +41.22.717.aaee
13:57:15 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Next is rendering of linear video, aka Tuner API
13:57:28 [ddavis]
giuseppep: We discussed this previously with Bin leading the discussion
13:57:34 [kawada_]
kawada_ has joined #webtv
13:57:36 [Zakim]
-darobin
13:57:51 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: We discussed the need to take action quickly if we want a Community Group
13:57:51 [kawada]
kawada has left #webtv
13:58:14 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: There are lots of people interested - strong interest in driving this forward.
13:58:16 [Zakim]
-bgidon
13:58:48 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: We need five supporters. Last week we had a role call and got more than five supporters.
13:59:04 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: As a result, this will be moving forward but still no volunteer to drive the effort.
13:59:26 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: As a next step I'm thinking maybe we can help start off the work and see how the group proceeds.
13:59:58 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: There are other groups that have similar technologies so we can see how those specifications can contribute to our efforts.
14:00:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: So we're still missing someone to lead the group.
14:00:22 [jcverdie]
ack me
14:00:25 [darobin]
darobin has left #webtv
14:00:41 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: We have jcverdie happy to co-chair
14:00:44 [jcverdie]
zakim, mute me
14:00:44 [Zakim]
jcverdie should now be muted
14:00:52 [ddavis]
jcverdie: I'd be happy to do it with Bin.
14:00:55 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: OK.
14:00:59 [ddavis]
jcverdie: Great.
14:01:08 [Zakim]
+ +44.178.442.aaff
14:01:15 [ddavis]
giuseppep: So the people who expressed an interest can propose the group.
14:01:36 [kaz]
zakim, who is here/
14:01:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is here/', kaz
14:01:39 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted), [IPcaller], Kazuyuki,
14:01:43 [Zakim]
... wuwei (muted), [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, ??P9, kawada, ??P56, +44.178.442.aaff
14:01:44 [ddavis]
giuseppep: We have provided a lot of use cases in the past year so it's a case of deciding which one to use for the group, based on existing specs and requirements.
14:01:44 [Zakim]
On IRC I see kawada_, igarashi, wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim,
14:01:44 [Zakim]
... bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
14:02:01 [ddavis]
giuseppep: So the Community Group will be independent of the IG and also open to anyone, not just W3C members.
14:02:26 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Once it's created let's announce it on the IG and maybe the CG chairs could report to the IG every month, for example.
14:02:29 [kaz]
-> http://www.w3.org/community/ Community Groups page
14:02:42 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: I think that's important because of the heritage of the IG.
14:02:45 [ddavis]
s/IG/CG/
14:02:57 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Any other comments?
14:03:10 [jcverdie]
+1 to reporting progress to IG obviously
14:03:20 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.aaaa]
14:03:27 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Next is slide #6 - mostly regarding bugs around video element.
14:03:32 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:03:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Vickers, Paul_Higgs, Daniel_Wester (muted), [GVoice], JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bryan_Sullivan, pal, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, jcverdie (muted), [IPcaller], Kazuyuki,
14:03:33 [Zakim]
... wuwei (muted), [IPcaller.a], Karen_Myers, ddavis (muted), [IPcaller.aa], [IPcaller.aaa], +325045aacc, +1.818.370.aadd, ??P54, ??P9, kawada, ??P56, +44.178.442.aaff,
14:03:33 [Zakim]
... [IPcaller.aaaa]
14:03:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see kawada_, igarashi, wuwei, CyrilRa, MarkVickers, jon, Andy_Hickman_DTVL, jcdufourd, bryan, pal, yosuke, paul_higgs, karen, giuseppep, ddavis, gmandyam, RRSAgent, Zakim,
14:03:37 [Zakim]
... bgidon, kaz, Bin_Hu, elindstrom, skim13, jcverdie, schuki, timeless_, MarkS, trackbot, tobie__
14:03:57 [simon]
simon has joined #webtv
14:04:03 [pal_]
pal_ has joined #webtv
14:04:09 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The IG should maybe get some feedback, maybe comment on the bugs.
14:04:21 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Do people feel our involvement would be useful?
14:04:33 [ddavis]
giuseppep: At present we don't have task forces, just one IG call every two weeks.
14:04:40 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.aaaa]
14:04:57 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The agenda for each call is open so if there's a specific spec that could benefit from being presented to the group, that's fine.
14:05:34 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: I like a single call and having the content decided as needed.
14:05:56 [ddavis]
paul_higgs: I think I heard you say we could discuss the bugs on the call. But how should SDOs report bugs?
14:06:15 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Bugs should be reported to the e.g. HTML WG
14:06:32 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.aaaa]
14:06:40 [kaz]
s/the e.g./the WGs, e.g.,
14:07:03 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If there's a problem with a spec, report it to the spec on Bugzilla - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/
14:07:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If there's a problem then raise it with this IG.
14:07:19 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Slide #7
14:07:22 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.aaaa]
14:07:28 [geunhyug]
geunhyug has joined #webtv
14:07:32 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Communication between two UAs
14:07:46 [ddavis]
giuseppep: We discussed whether there's anything more the IG can be doing.
14:07:59 [ddavis]
giuseppep: The answer was no, because there are already groups doing this work.
14:08:37 [ddavis]
giuseppep: See slide #7, and if you're not sure how to join in, ask the list.
14:09:08 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Next is #8 - performance measurement.
14:09:27 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There was a discussion about what's needed and what W3C can do.
14:09:42 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Is now a time to go to the web performance WG with requirements?
14:09:52 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If so, there's a need for people to drive this discussion.
14:10:06 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Is there anyone on the call that feels this is important enough to drive forward?
14:10:20 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Is this related to the testing activity or outside that scope?
14:11:03 [ddavis]
bryan: Performance measurement and benchmarks is always a tricky area. So far it's outside W3C's area.
14:11:14 [ddavis]
bryan: Functional tests are the main focus.
14:11:23 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: There's a performance WG, right?
14:11:34 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Yes, but they focus on performance specs.
14:11:46 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If someone wants to discuss this, we're open.
14:12:07 [MarkVickers]
Web Performance Working Group: http://www.w3.org/2010/webperf/
14:12:14 [ddavis]
bryan: If it's just discussing common ideas, that's OK, but don't build your hopes up with benchmarks.
14:12:29 [ddavis]
giuseppep: I think you need APIs for browsers to measure performance.
14:12:38 [ddavis]
bryan: That's worthwhile talking about here.
14:13:08 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Let's see if there's enough interest to continue the discussion.
14:13:30 [ddavis]
yosuke: What we've learned (from HybridCast) is performance is still really important for actual production.
14:13:34 [bryan]
I think experience with the video API will help identify that performance data gaps exist - testing may also uncover gaps in what people were expecting the API to provide, and that can drive bugs.
14:13:45 [ddavis]
yosuke: If no-one's willing to kick off the discussion, I'd be happy to.
14:14:05 [ddavis]
giuseppep: It would be helpful to send a mail to the list and if there's interest it can be followed up in the next call.
14:14:23 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If you can compile a list, e.g. of HybridCast issues, that would help start the discussion.
14:15:00 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Slide #9 - there was a discussion about accessibility.
14:15:31 [ddavis]
giuseppep: There's more than just subtitles and captioning. We didn't really go into details, just continue in the IG if there's enough contributors.
14:15:37 [ddavis]
s/there's/there are
14:15:58 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If you're interested, send a mail to the list and we can discuss it on the call.
14:16:20 [ddavis]
Pierre: I saw a number of issues filed by Jon Piesing for HTML, e.g. caption/subtitle selection.
14:16:28 [ddavis]
Pierre: Have they been addressed or resolved?
14:16:36 [ddavis]
Jon: They are being addressed, slowly.
14:16:44 [ddavis]
Pierre: Do you feel there's more that could be done?
14:17:04 [ddavis]
Jon: It feels like it's purely a discussion between Silvia Pfeiffer and myself.
14:17:15 [ddavis]
Jon: It's hard to know what other people think of the discussion.
14:17:32 [ddavis]
Jon: You can assume that silence is consent, but the lack of people makes me nervous.
14:17:48 [ddavis]
Pierre: Do you have a record of all the issues that are relevant to this group?
14:18:05 [ddavis]
Jon: I can send something to Giuseppe who can forward to the list. There'll be more to come.
14:18:14 [ddavis]
Pierre: Feel free to send it directly to me as well.
14:18:24 [MarkVickers]
I believe anyone can send to the public list.
14:18:37 [kaz]
right
14:18:42 [ddavis]
giuseppep: It's OK to send a mail to the group asking for other people to comment.
14:18:58 [ddavis]
Pierre: Jon, I'm looking forward to that and helping if I can.
14:19:28 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: It is a pattern for these things that one of the editors will lead the discussion. In this case it's Silvia as she's an HTML editor.
14:19:54 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: The bugs you reported were well written. I agree it's not a fast process but when it gets done it gets adopted by all the browsers.
14:20:11 [ddavis]
Pierre: Now that HTML is taking over video content, that video content comes from places outside the browser.
14:20:25 [ddavis]
Pierre: I'm sure many of us in the TV industry have experience we can contribute.
14:21:11 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: I agree. The HTML spec a few years ago was very basic for video and this IG has contributed a lot. Also, individuals from this group have gone on to work on specs directly.
14:21:33 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: Web browser experts are not necessarily media experts so they need us to chime in on these issues. Our role will continue to be important.
14:22:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Slide #10 - Pluggable CDM for EME
14:22:29 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Jan is not on the call. I didn't feel there was anything that could be done within the IG.
14:22:43 [ddavis]
giuseppep: It's something that could be mentioned in the HTML WG Media Task Force.
14:23:10 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: In general, the W3C specs just cover the interface between the application and the browser.
14:23:38 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: The W3C takes the position that specs don't touch the plugin or anything above the browser interface.
14:24:18 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: The W3C in this area hasn't taken on any work defining CDMs or plugins.
14:24:19 [bryan]
sorry, gotta drop - late for WebMob
14:24:27 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
14:24:47 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: The question of whether there's a plugin API that would work cross-browser is still an open issues.
14:25:15 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: You could raise it in the HTML WG Media TF and see the response.
14:25:41 [Zakim]
- +1.818.370.aadd
14:26:02 [ddavis]
giuseppep: So if Jan and the people who raised the issue are not here I'll leave it but they can raise it in the IG if they want to.
14:26:04 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:26:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:26:18 [ddavis]
giuseppep: That's all I have for the workshop next steps. Anything I forgot?
14:26:53 [ddavis]
kaz: Maybe Daniel or I should talk with Mark Sadecki about his participation in the IG?
14:26:56 [ddavis]
giuseppep: OK.
14:27:14 [giuseppep]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2014Apr/0025.html
14:27:34 [ddavis]
Topic: Request from DAP WG
14:27:48 [ddavis]
giuseppep: They want feedback on the Network Service Discovery API
14:27:56 [kaz]
s/about his participation in the IG/about the possible collaboration (maybe including his direct participation in the IG)/
14:27:59 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.aaa]
14:28:14 [ddavis]
giuseppep: They want to know if the spec covers our use cases
14:28:25 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If people are interesting in implementing it and can share plans.
14:28:57 [ddavis]
giuseppep: And if there are additional requirements, such as if there's no support for legacy devices will they still implement it/not implement it?
14:29:22 [ddavis]
giuseppep: As an IG we can't answer this but we can send a mail to get responses.
14:29:49 [ddavis]
giuseppep: So I'll follow up and draft an email, sending it to our liaison contacts.
14:30:19 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: Based on the email that they sent to everybody, looks like if there are no further implementations then their work will be shelved.
14:30:32 [Zakim]
-gmandyam
14:30:35 [ddavis]
Bin_Hu: It's a good time to speak up if you're interested in it or in implementing it.
14:30:41 [kaz]
i|They want feedback|-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2014Apr/0025.html DAP Request|
14:30:44 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:31:01 [ddavis]
paul_higgs: What do you mean by implementing it?
14:31:35 [ddavis]
paul_higgs: TV manufacturers are interested in it but it's implemented in the browser, so it's up to browser vendors.
14:31:44 [ddavis]
giuseppep: It's not limited to the browser vendors.
14:31:56 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Forks of WebKit would still count as implementations.
14:32:34 [ddavis]
Also, it's up to TV manufacturers to request requirements as customers of browser vendors.
14:33:00 [ddavis]
Topic: Update from the Media API TF
14:33:18 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Is there a volunteer to answer requests for an update on the status of the group?
14:33:24 [ddavis]
MarkVickers: I can draft an email.
14:33:46 [ddavis]
giuseppep: So let's close the call there.
14:33:51 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Anything else?
14:34:04 [Zakim]
-??P54
14:34:08 [Zakim]
-Paul_Higgs
14:34:08 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Next call in two weeks then and I'll send a summary to the IG.
14:34:11 [jcverdie]
thanks giuseppep
14:34:13 [jcverdie]
bye all
14:34:26 [ddavis]
kaz: Next call will be a normal TV IG call, right?
14:34:33 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.a]
14:34:34 [Zakim]
- +44.178.442.aaff
14:34:36 [Zakim]
-JeanClaude_Dufourd
14:34:37 [Zakim]
-jcverdie
14:34:37 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Yes, and sorry I got the timezones wrong.
14:34:38 [Zakim]
-Mark_Vickers
14:34:38 [Zakim]
-Karen_Myers
14:34:39 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
14:34:39 [Zakim]
-pal
14:34:41 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.aa]
14:34:41 [Zakim]
-Bin_Hu
14:34:42 [Zakim]
-Daniel_Wester
14:34:45 [skim13]
skim13 has left #webtv
14:34:45 [geunhyug]
-geunhyung
14:34:45 [Zakim]
-[GVoice]
14:34:47 [Zakim]
-wuwei
14:34:48 [Zakim]
- +325045aacc
14:34:48 [ddavis]
giuseppep: If you want an invite, please let me know and I'll send you one.
14:34:51 [kawada_]
kawada_ has left #webtv
14:34:53 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
14:35:03 [lorenzo_dtvl]
lorenzo_dtvl has joined #webtv
14:35:05 [ddavis]
giuseppep: Goodbye everyone.
14:35:13 [ddavis]
Meeting adjourned
14:35:20 [ddavis]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:35:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webtv-minutes.html ddavis
14:36:15 [Zakim]
-kawada
14:36:26 [karen]
karen has left #webtv
14:41:14 [Zakim]
-??P9
15:13:40 [jcverdie]
jcverdie has joined #webtv
15:17:28 [jcverdie]
jcverdie has joined #webtv
15:51:04 [glenn]
glenn has joined #webtv
16:03:26 [jcverdie]
jcverdie has joined #webtv