14:59:56 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:59:56 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-html-a11y-irc
14:59:58 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:00 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:00 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
15:00:01 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:01 Date: 03 April 2014
15:00:15 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:15 apparently WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended, janina
15:00:17 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Judy_clone, chaals, paulc, rubys, IanPouncey, cabanier_, SteveF, janina, Zakim, hober, sivoais, MarkS, trackbot
15:00:24 zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:24 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 60 minutes ago
15:00:33 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:33 apparently WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended, janina
15:00:34 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Judy_clone, chaals, paulc, rubys, IanPouncey, cabanier_, SteveF, janina, Zakim, hober, sivoais, MarkS, trackbot
15:01:05 zakim, this is 2119
15:01:06 ok, MarkS; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:01:19 agenda?
15:01:19 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:21 On the phone I see ??P5, Sam, Mark_Sadecki, [Microsoft], [IPcaller]
15:01:26 rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
15:01:47 See additional possible agenda items in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Apr/0012.html
15:01:54 zakim, ??P5 is me
15:01:55 +janina; got it
15:02:02 LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:02:02 Chair: Chaals
15:02:12 rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
15:02:36 +[IPcaller.a]
15:02:47 zakim, [ipcaller.a] is me
15:02:47 +chaals; got it
15:03:13 agenda+ Bug 25135 - summary. Status?
15:03:26 zakim, agenda?
15:03:26 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
15:03:27 1. canvas [from janina]
15:03:27 2. ALT guidance [from janina]
15:03:27 3. table summary [from janina]
15:03:27 4. HTML F2F meeting [from janina]
15:03:27 5. longdesc [from janina]
15:03:27 6. next call [from janina]
15:03:27 7. Any other business [from janina]
15:03:28 8. Bug 25135 - summary. Status? [from chaals]
15:03:37 BillyGregory has joined #html-a11y
15:03:41 zakim, this is 2119
15:03:41 chaals, this was already WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:03:42 ok, chaals; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:03:59 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:04:15 zakim, [IPCaller] is LJWatson
15:04:15 +LJWatson; got it
15:04:17 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:04:33 zakim, who is here?
15:04:33 On the phone I see janina, Sam, Mark_Sadecki, [Microsoft], LJWatson, chaals, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:04:36 On IRC I see richardschwerdtfeger, BillyGregory, LJWatson, RRSAgent, Judy_clone, chaals, paulc, rubys, IanPouncey, cabanier_, SteveF, janina, Zakim, hober, sivoais, MarkS, trackbot
15:04:38 +[IPcaller]
15:04:46 zakim, [micro is PaulC
15:04:46 +PaulC; got it
15:04:48 +Judy
15:05:05 scribe: Léonie Watson
15:05:12 scribenick : LJWatson
15:05:31 zakim, take up item 7
15:05:31 agendum 7. "Any other business" taken up [from janina]
15:06:05 agenda+ User Agent Implementation Guide, coordination.
15:06:49 zakim, close this item
15:06:49 agendum 7 closed
15:06:50 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:06:50 1. canvas [from janina]
15:07:00 zakim, takeup item 1
15:07:00 I don't understand 'takeup item 1', LJWatson
15:07:04 zakim, take up item 1
15:07:04 agendum 1. "canvas" taken up [from janina]
15:07:08 zakim, take up item 1
15:07:08 agendum 1. "canvas" taken up [from janina]
15:07:35 MS: Discussed whether id and control would be required options, settled on requiring neither.
15:07:49 MS: Clearing hit regions has been added to spec.
15:08:40 MS: Not a good idea to refer to pointer events yet. Came to resolution that Canvas will handle events for 1.0
15:08:51 zakim, who is here?
15:08:51 On the phone I see janina, Sam, Mark_Sadecki, PaulC, LJWatson, chaals, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, [IPcaller], Judy
15:08:54 On IRC I see richardschwerdtfeger, BillyGregory, LJWatson, RRSAgent, Judy_clone, chaals, paulc, rubys, cabanier_, SteveF, janina, Zakim, hober, sivoais, MarkS, trackbot
15:09:08 MS: Fell that in two weeks we should have a stable draft, ready to go back to LC.
15:09:18 s/Fell/Believe/
15:09:47 zakim, who is making noise?
15:09:49 q+
15:09:51 rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:09:57 chaals, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: chaals (25%), Mark_Sadecki (14%), PaulC (49%)
15:09:59 zakim, [ip is BillyGregory
15:09:59 +BillyGregory; got it
15:10:18 PC: I'm concerned this is "just two more weeks" and "just two more weeks". Chairs are losing patience.
15:10:51 PC: Can you give me a rationale for why more time is needed?
15:11:35 MS: We have cycles of review/feedback. New issues are arising, and we're handling them as quickly as possible. Understand you have a timeline.
15:11:41 plh has joined #html-a11y
15:11:44 PC: Can we deal with those in LC?
15:11:55 +Plh
15:12:00 (11:09:08 AM) LJWatson: MS: Fell that in two weeks we should have a stable draft, ready to go back to LC.
15:12:05 (11:10:18 AM) LJWatson: PC: I'm concerned this is "just two more weeks" and "just two more weeks". Chairs are losing patience.
15:12:31 CMN: That's not what LC claims to be.
15:12:46 PC: There are no open bugs on this spec right now.
15:13:11 PC: Will talk to my co-chairs.
15:13:58 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:13:59 CMN: Canvas is still changing stuff, so question is should this hold up LC indefinitely?
15:14:13 CMN: If we go to LC with some issues unresolved, does that cause problems?
15:14:54 RS: Reason for last couple of weeks delay was Hixie dumping things into the WATWG spec. We think we're close to dealing with that now.
15:15:09 MS: Agreed.
15:15:21 RS: Just need our second implementation and clean things up.
15:15:38 PLH: That sounds like LC.
15:15:50 RS: Can we go to LC with edotorial?
15:15:52 See Sam's request in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Mar/0072.html about a second implementation.
15:16:31 MS: Jay has been editing, changes discussed on Monday seem to have been done.
15:16:38 RS: Just waiting for a blessing?
15:16:41 MS: Right.
15:17:01 JS: Thought there was a discussion to be had about pointer events?
15:17:14 MS: It was discussed/researched and it's not a good idea.
15:17:21 Quoting from Sam's request: the HTML WG chairs are asking that the two planned interoperable implementations of this feature be identified at this time.
15:18:04 PC: Email asked whether there was a second implementation. There isn't, correct?
15:18:09 RS: Correct.
15:18:25 PC: So hit regions would be at risk?
15:18:28 RS: Yes.
15:18:37 MS: Agree, but makes me nervous.
15:18:51 RS: We can get the second implementation in Webkit or from MS.
15:19:05 PC: How does the TF want to decide this?
15:19:42 pC: The chairs can ask editors to produce a stable draft and we'll run a CFC?
15:19:56 PLH: Is this a TF doc?
15:20:53 PC: We have the F2F next week, no meeting on Monday, is it appropriate for the editors to ask the 1.0 editors right now, or do you need a couple of days?
15:21:07 MS: I can co-ordinate with the editors today and close of any outstanding items.
15:21:23 PC: Mark, could you send an email to the chairs informing us when a stable draft is ready?
15:21:26 MS: OK.
15:21:35 PC: Sam you ok with this?
15:21:38 SR: Sure.
15:21:42 CMN: Questions?
15:21:51 q?
15:21:54 ack paul
15:21:58 PLH: The duration of the last call? What's after that?
15:22:13 PLH: Also timeframe for second implementation?
15:22:24 I suggest the LC period be 3 weeks.
15:22:37 MS: We'll need feedback from implementors.
15:22:45 RS: Best thing would be MS/IE to implement.
15:23:22 PLH: Sounds like a four week LC?
15:23:27 CMN: Sounds ok.
15:23:33 rrsagent, make minutes
15:23:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:23:40 zakim, next item
15:23:40 agendum 2. "ALT guidance" taken up [from janina]
15:23:40 zakim, close this item
15:23:41 I can live with 4 weeks LC period
15:23:42 agendum 2 closed
15:23:42 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:23:42 3. table summary [from janina]
15:24:33 MS: Discussion about adding link to the HTML5 spec that will point to alt guidance doc.
15:24:33 s/four week LC/four week LC followed by a non-zero CR giving time to work through implementation/
15:24:45 s/Sounds ok/Sounds correct/
15:25:05 MS: Bug hasn't been filed yet, waiting for approval from members of WAI about landing page content. Expect to file bug in next few hours.
15:25:24 q+
15:25:24 See also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Mar/0086.html
15:25:29 MS: Steve thinks he can do the editorial change very quickly.
15:25:32 ack ju
15:25:46 "I believe with this information the A11Y TF can now decide if they are willing to declare the work on the Alt Guidance specification [1] to be done "
15:26:26 JB: To ensure reliability of the landing page content, we have had EO and WCAG looking at it. Also wanted the TF to look at changes on that page.
15:26:55 q+
15:26:56 JB: Would like to get informal agreement on that here.
15:27:01 ack me
15:27:06 ... quote from 0086.html "If the TF agrees then I recommend that the TF ask the WG to discontinue work on the WD by publishing the content as a WG Note with an appropriate SOTD to indicate how the problems identified in the original WD were dealt with."
15:27:17 CMN: We can add that to the TF agenda.
15:27:41 JB: Yes, but don't want to delay things.
15:28:08 rrsagent, make minutes
15:28:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:28:10 ACTION: chaals to ensure that review of Alt guidance page (not in the HTML spec) is on the TF agenda
15:28:10 Created ACTION-238 - Ensure that review of alt guidance page (not in the html spec) is on the tf agenda [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-04-10].
15:28:15 q+
15:28:19 ack paul
15:28:55 PC: Message 86 in the March archives... Editors and TF now believes guidance from alt guidance has been merged into 5.0 and 5.1. Think it's time the TF reviewed and agreed to that.
15:29:27 ACTION: chaals to put a review of the HTML Alt guidance on the agenda, and call for consensus to stop work on the original guidance note
15:29:27 Created ACTION-239 - Put a review of the html alt guidance on the agenda, and call for consensus to stop work on the original guidance note [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-04-10].
15:29:32 zakim, close this item
15:29:32 I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
15:29:37 zakim, agenda
15:29:37 I don't understand 'agenda', chaals
15:29:42 zakim, agenda?
15:29:42 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:29:43 3. table summary [from janina]
15:29:43 4. HTML F2F meeting [from janina]
15:29:43 5. longdesc [from janina]
15:29:43 6. next call [from janina]
15:29:43 8. Bug 25135 - summary. Status? [from chaals]
15:29:43 9. User Agent Implementation Guide, coordination. [from chaals]
15:29:48 zakim, next item
15:29:49 agendum 3. "table summary" taken up [from janina]
15:30:39 MS: An old 5.0 bug. We've resolved to close it and open a new bug in 5.1. Still discussing/researching examples.
15:30:54 CMN: For 5.1?
15:30:58 MS: Correct.
15:31:02 Zakim, close this item
15:31:02 agendum 3 closed
15:31:04 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:31:04 4. HTML F2F meeting [from janina]
15:31:07 zakim, take up item 5
15:31:07 agendum 5. "longdesc" taken up [from janina]
15:31:55 CMN: Haven't done this yet. Unhappy it's taken so long, but it has.
15:32:16 CMN: Anyone feel we shouldn't be prioritising things with HTML5.0?
15:32:35 zakim, close this item
15:32:35 agendum 5 closed
15:32:36 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:32:36 4. HTML F2F meeting [from janina]
15:32:53 zakim, take up item 8
15:32:53 agendum 8. "Bug 25135 - summary. Status?" taken up [from chaals]
15:33:13 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25135
15:33:38 MS: New bug filed on details/summary. To do with interactive content within the summary element, that would conflict with default behaviour of focusing on summary to open/close the details.
15:34:03 MS: Steve believes he has a resolution that would not involve a major change to the spec. Think he posted some comments today.
15:34:13 PC: None there.
15:34:22 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25140#c14
15:34:27 MS: Perhaps on the related bug.
15:35:22 MS: Right now only Chrome has a stable implementation of details/summary. Curious what happens if HTML5 goes to CR and this is at risk, then there is a last minute implementation, even though there are issues with the definition.
15:35:23 q+
15:35:46 CR bug for at risk features: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24812
15:36:22 PC: There is an open CR bug covering at risk features. Will make sure it's dicussed next week at the F2F. Chair's objective is to have a doc published that has no bugs or at risk features.
15:36:39 PC: If you want to comment about an at risk feature, should make it in this bug.
15:36:56 PC: If we cut a feature because not enough implementation, it'll still be in 5.1.
15:37:26 ack me
15:37:29 q+
15:37:50 PLH: We're also going to discuss the timeline at the F2F.
15:37:53 q+
15:38:42 CMN: If something is at risk because it has problems, bugs need to be filed.
15:39:22 I agree with Charles' rationale for removing at risk features ie not yet implemented, implementers having trouble implementing the feature, ...
15:39:23 -Cynthia_Shelly
15:39:39 zakim, close this item
15:39:39 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chaals
15:39:42 q?
15:39:43 rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:39:44 q-
15:39:52 zakim, close this topic
15:39:52 I don't understand 'close this topic', chaals
15:40:06 zakim, close item
15:40:06 I don't understand 'close item', LJWatson
15:40:06 zakim, close this item
15:40:07 agendum 8 closed
15:40:07 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:40:07 4. HTML F2F meeting [from janina]
15:40:08 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:40:13 zakim, take up item 9
15:40:13 agendum 9. "User Agent Implementation Guide, coordination." taken up [from chaals]
15:40:17 zakim, agenda?
15:40:17 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:40:18 4. HTML F2F meeting [from janina]
15:40:18 6. next call [from janina]
15:40:18 9. User Agent Implementation Guide, coordination. [from chaals]
15:40:28 zakim, take up item 9
15:40:28 agendum 9. "User Agent Implementation Guide, coordination." taken up [from chaals]
15:41:08 q+ rich
15:41:11 q+ janina
15:41:12 PC: Lots of emails about plans, working draft hasn't been updated in a long time, you have a great plan, but you haven't informed the HTMLWG that the plan is in place.
15:41:23 agenda?
15:41:33 ack rich
15:41:41 RS: I can do that.
15:42:03