11:58:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #csvw
11:58:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-irc
11:58:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:58:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #csvw
11:58:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be CSVW
11:58:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
11:58:44 <trackbot> Meeting: CSV on the Web Working Group Teleconference
11:58:44 <trackbot> Date: 02 April 2014
11:59:00 <AndyS> zakim, this is CSVW
11:59:00 <Zakim> AndyS, I see DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be CSVW".
11:59:33 <Zakim> DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM has now started
11:59:40 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
11:59:42 <danbri> thanks, AndyS!
11:59:48 <AndyS> zakim, IPCalled is me
11:59:48 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCalled'
11:59:52 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
11:59:52 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
12:00:58 <Zakim> +??P11
12:01:09 <DavideCeolin> zakim, ??P11 is me
12:01:09 <Zakim> +DavideCeolin; got it
12:01:28 <Zakim> + +44.207.286.aaaa
12:01:40 <danbri> zakim, +44.207.286.aaaa is danbri
12:01:42 <Zakim> +danbri; got it
12:01:46 <AndyS> zakim, who is making noise?
12:01:50 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #csvw
12:01:57 <Zakim> AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
12:01:59 <Zakim> -AndyS
12:02:10 <danbri> [high pitched whooshing noise]
12:02:10 <phila> phila has joined #csvw
12:02:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:02:35 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
12:02:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see DavideCeolin, danbri, [IPcaller]
12:02:42 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
12:02:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:03:03 <phila> zakim, ipcaller is me
12:03:03 <Zakim> +phila; got it
12:03:10 <DavideCeolin> muted, can you still hear the noise?
12:03:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:03:19 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
12:03:19 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
12:03:24 <Zakim> -DavideCeolin
12:03:49 <fonso> fonso has joined #csvw
12:04:30 <Zakim> +??P14
12:04:41 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, ??P14 is me
12:04:41 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
12:05:14 <AxelPolleres> can try...
12:05:24 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Axel Polleres
12:05:31 <AxelPolleres> scribenick: AxelPolleres
12:05:35 <Zakim> +??P17
12:05:42 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P17 is me
12:05:42 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
12:05:52 <phila> scribe: AxelPolleres
12:05:57 <phila> scribeNick: AxelPolleres
12:06:05 <phila> Guest: PhilA
12:06:07 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
12:06:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see danbri, phila, AndyS, AxelPolleres, gkellogg
12:06:22 <danbri> agenda https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_2014-04-02
12:06:23 <ericstephan> ericstephan has joined #csvw
12:06:31 <Zakim> +??P18
12:06:47 <AxelPolleres> danbri: approve minutes from last meeting http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-csvw-minutes.html
12:06:51 <AndyS> Minutes looks OK
12:06:55 <danbri> zakim, ??P18 is jeremy
12:06:55 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it
12:07:01 <danbri> http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-csvw-minutes.html looks ok to me
12:07:08 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #csvw
12:07:11 <Zakim> +ericstephan
12:07:23 <Zakim> +??P19
12:07:25 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: minutes from last meeting http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-csvw-minutes.html approved
12:07:38 <DavideCeolin> zakim, ??P19 is me
12:07:38 <Zakim> +DavideCeolin; got it
12:07:39 <phila> q+
12:07:45 <jtandy> ?
12:07:50 <AxelPolleres> danbri: 2 FPWDs shipped last week... any feedback already?
12:08:05 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is speaking?
12:08:16 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danbri (19%), jeremy (20%)
12:08:30 <AndyS> Don't see anything on public-csv-wg-comments@w3.org
12:08:33 <Zakim> +??P21
12:08:35 <AxelPolleres> danbri: any news from the editors?
12:08:41 <fonso> Zakim, ??P21 is me
12:08:41 <Zakim> +fonso; got it
12:08:49 <AxelPolleres> jeremy: none
12:09:03 <AxelPolleres> danbri: any news from the best practices WG meeting?
12:09:13 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is speaking?
12:09:24 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danbri (10%), phila (57%), AndyS (9%), gkellogg (18%), jeremy (13%)
12:09:43 <AxelPolleres> phil: reporting from DWBP WG
12:09:48 <danbri> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Main_Page
12:09:54 <AxelPolleres> (... as team contact)
12:10:03 <ericstephan> Great to have you on the call this week and next phila!
12:10:17 <AxelPolleres> phil: ... closely related to CSVW
12:10:38 <jtandy> zakim, mute me
12:10:38 <Zakim> sorry, jtandy, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:10:57 <AxelPolleres> ... develop voacularies on data usage, quality, usage best practices on existing vocabs, e.g. PROV.
12:10:58 <phila> q-
12:11:02 <jtandy> zakim, jeremy is me
12:11:02 <Zakim> +jtandy; got it
12:11:13 <jtandy> zakim, mute me
12:11:13 <Zakim> jtandy should now be muted
12:11:13 <AndyS> zakim, jeremy is jtandy
12:11:14 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'jeremy'
12:11:22 <phila> http://www.w3.org/blog/data/
12:11:31 <danbri> action: danbri write (or find writer for) data activity blog re new WDs
12:11:31 <trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
12:11:37 <danbri> unmute me
12:11:38 <ericstephan> q+
12:11:43 <AxelPolleres> phil: ... somone from this group should draft something for the data activity blog on the CSVW group.
12:11:44 <danbri> zakim, unmute me
12:11:44 <Zakim> danbri should no longer be muted
12:12:43 <AxelPolleres> eric: phil has brought up a sue case which I'd like to propose tro the WG. table from PDF docs.
12:12:49 <phila> q+ to ask about another use case
12:12:54 <phila> s/sue/use/
12:13:32 <AxelPolleres> ... once it is tabular data, it is relevant. interesting use case that can go between the two groups.
12:13:47 <AxelPolleres> danbri: use case doc is the ideal interface between the group.
12:14:31 <AxelPolleres> phila: most people in DWBP WG haven't read it yet, needs to be done. I have another use case...
12:15:02 <jtandy> +1 to phils use case
12:15:02 <AxelPolleres> ... person a creates tabular date w/o metadata, person b creates metadata and wants to link it to tabular data from person a.
12:15:03 <AndyS> phila: third party metadata UC
12:15:10 <danbri> action: chase phila for his usecase in which a party provides metadata for another's csv
12:15:10 <trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
12:15:27 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is talking?
12:15:38 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: phila (63%)
12:15:38 <AndyS> q+
12:15:59 <phila> q-
12:16:12 <danbri> ack ericstephan
12:16:16 <danbri> ack andys
12:16:22 <phila> action: dan to chase phila for his usecase in which a party provides metadata for another's csv
12:16:22 <trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
12:16:49 <danbri> (trackbot issue is known/reported. … we have chatlogs for minutes)
12:16:54 <AxelPolleres> Andy: request feedback on expectations on how standardised mapping from CSV can be, can we use input from the other WG?
12:17:11 <danbri> topic: CSV2RDF
12:17:24 <AxelPolleres> danbri: andy & greg report back?
12:18:15 <AxelPolleres> andy: greg and i will have a separate telco, to spare general telco time, will come up with rough drafts.
12:18:29 <AxelPolleres> danbri: I support that.
12:18:44 <jtandy> q+
12:18:49 <AxelPolleres> ... stay as transparent as possible, share minurs, call times
12:18:52 <jtandy> zakim, unmute me
12:18:52 <Zakim> jtandy should no longer be muted
12:19:53 <AndyS> 5pm UK / 9am PDT / 6pm CEDT / 12:00 EDT
12:20:06 <AndyS> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/csv2rdf/#example-1
12:20:28 <jtandy> tuesday
12:20:30 <danbri> tues
12:20:31 <AndyS> Tuesday
12:20:35 <danbri> :)
12:20:54 <AxelPolleres> sinoff-telco will be  Tue, 5pm UK / 9am PDT / 6pm CEDT / 12:00 EDT
12:21:04 <AxelPolleres> s/sinoff/spinoff/
12:22:34 <danbri> q+ to discuss r2rml as candidate 'how to do complex mappings' option
12:22:35 <danbri> q?
12:23:11 <phila> q+
12:23:21 <AxelPolleres> andy: column mapping, where each cell in a row becomes a particular value, guessing datatypes, is all in scope... where we'd leave strictly tabular data is starts getting more difficult.
12:24:03 <AxelPolleres> greg: generally, uninformed mapping that should work without metadata describing the content
12:24:17 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/tree/gh-pages/tests
12:25:13 <AxelPolleres> greg: ... (continues on testcases)
12:25:15 <danbri> which are the rdf ones?
12:25:22 <AndyS> .ttl
12:26:11 <AxelPolleres> ... greg doesn't imply order on elements
12:26:26 <danbri> q?
12:26:26 <AxelPolleres> s/greg/json/
12:26:27 <AndyS> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/csv2rdf/#example-1
12:26:59 <AxelPolleres> jeremy: will alternate telcos also have Zakim, minutes, etc.?
12:27:16 <danbri> q?
12:27:20 <danbri> ack jeremy
12:27:25 <AxelPolleres> andy: we need someone programming Zakim
12:27:34 <danbri> ack jtandy
12:27:40 <AxelPolleres> danbri: adhoc calls?
12:28:05 <AxelPolleres> phila: adhoc can be scheduled, it's  simple, if regular calls, we shall set it up.
12:28:24 <AxelPolleres> ... (ivan or phil)
12:28:43 <AxelPolleres> phil explains how to setup adhoc calls...
12:29:05 <AxelPolleres> phil: note we have a limited number of lines.
12:29:25 <danbri> q?
12:29:33 <AxelPolleres> ... you can still use IRC even if you can't use zakim.
12:29:44 <AxelPolleres> greg: can we use rrsagent, trackbot?
12:29:45 <danbri> ack danbri
12:29:45 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to discuss r2rml as candidate 'how to do complex mappings' option
12:29:57 <AxelPolleres> phila: trackbot not working at the moment
12:30:04 <AxelPolleres> danbri: have been reporting on that.
12:30:55 <AxelPolleres> jeremy: mapping predicates on column headings, sometimes it's more complicated, e.g. if I want to use units (QUDT)
12:31:16 <AxelPolleres> ... I put that as a requirement in the UC document.
12:32:04 <AxelPolleres> andy: if we fulfill every reuqirement, we are getting in the complicated space
12:32:34 <AxelPolleres> s/reuqirement/requirement
12:34:17 <AxelPolleres> andy: mapping not completely uninformed, may use metadata
12:34:24 <AxelPolleres> danbri: where to drwa the line?
12:34:31 <AxelPolleres> s/drwa/draw/
12:35:21 <AxelPolleres> andy: if it starts to getting to conditionals, that's where it starts to fell complicated (going into programming languages)
12:35:51 <AxelPolleres> andy: we need concrete cases
12:35:51 <jtandy> the requirement for LDPath "predicates" for column mapping is provided as a note in http://w3c.github.io/csvw/use-cases-and-requirements/#R-SemanticTypeDefinition
12:36:39 <AxelPolleres> andy: "this column is dc:title" is quite within column mapping
12:36:50 <danbri> q?
12:37:51 <danbri> "supporting automated recognition of semantic type, typically expressed for each column ... further description to be added"
12:38:02 <AxelPolleres> ... would be helpful to have jeremy's example on RDF output expected.
12:38:30 <AxelPolleres> jeremy: agree that the example I am talking about needs multiple jumps beyond uninformed mappings
12:38:45 <jtandy> zakim, mute me
12:38:45 <Zakim> jtandy should now be muted
12:39:06 <AxelPolleres> danbri: r2rml allows SQL for more complex mappings
12:39:31 <AxelPolleres> ... we should look at real world r2rml examples, have been looking at musicbrainz examples.
12:39:48 <jtandy> action: jtandy to provide detailed description of the LDPath as column mapping requirement, including the anticipated RDF
12:39:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Provide detailed description of the ldpath as column mapping requirement, including the anticipated rdf [on Jeremy Tandy - due 2014-04-09].
12:39:50 <AxelPolleres> ... r2rml looks like a good handle.
12:40:17 <AxelPolleres> andy: if you want to use complicated stuff, load your csv into SQL and use r2rml?
12:41:04 <danbri> q?
12:41:10 <danbri> ack phila
12:41:16 <AxelPolleres> andy: full sql is turing-complete.
12:41:18 <phila> "expression": "'/id/'+ toLowercase(replace(replace(value, /(ministry|office|department|managing|directorate|unit\\s(general|authority)?).*/i, \"$1\"), /\\s+/, '')) + '/' + value.urlify()",
12:41:36 <danbri> zakim, who  is on the phone?
12:41:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see danbri, phila, AndyS, AxelPolleres, gkellogg, jtandy (muted), ericstephan, DavideCeolin, fonso
12:41:37 <AndyS> andy: due recent standards additions.
12:41:47 <AxelPolleres> phila: (on his irc example) does that count as complex?
12:42:06 <phila> https://github.com/OpenRefine/OpenRefine/wiki/GREL-String-Functions
12:42:23 <AxelPolleres> ... is that in scope?
12:43:05 <danbri> q+ to ask if there are functions we could refer to from other specs eg sparql?
12:43:16 <gkellogg> q+
12:43:29 <AxelPolleres> andy: I think defining a library for that would take quite some time... that would be a big WG decision (more on time it takes to do the work than on technical issues)
12:43:56 <AxelPolleres> phila: many mappings quickly need string functions
12:44:02 <danbri> q?
12:44:06 <danbri> ack danbri
12:44:06 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask if there are functions we could refer to from other specs eg sparql?
12:45:01 <AxelPolleres> andy: depends on the library, also from what programming environment you are coming from.
12:45:32 <AxelPolleres> danbri: sparql functions and operators?
12:46:16 <AxelPolleres> andy: sparql ones are all from XQuery/XPath functions, differences in regex replacement
12:46:36 <AxelPolleres> danbri: maybe postpone that to version 1.1
12:47:02 <AxelPolleres> andy: idea would be to publish in 2 phases, starting with a basic extensible version
12:47:49 <AxelPolleres> danbri: we can screw up in both directions, making it too toy-like to be useful, or too complex to implement
12:47:58 <danbri> q?
12:48:06 <danbri> ack gkellogg
12:48:53 <AxelPolleres> greg: cwv to jjson is interesting for loading it into tools, putting too much into it, doesn't fulfill the purpose...
12:48:57 <danbri> AndyS, it is in fact a fair question whether we go through and mark UCs as 'accepted'
12:49:06 <danbri> or maybe as 'implemented by x' where x is a piece of spec
12:49:14 <AxelPolleres> s/cwv/csv/
12:49:55 <danbri> q+ to timecheck: more RDF, or move to JSON, I18N?
12:50:09 <AxelPolleres> greg: case conversions, modifiers, chaining operations go to far? JSON-
12:50:10 <AxelPolleres> l
12:50:43 <AxelPolleres> ... LD  suffers from that a bit. too many new use cases coming in.
12:51:43 <AxelPolleres> danbri: actions for RDF work for next week?
12:51:56 <AxelPolleres> andy: will try to sketch something on requirements
12:52:12 <AxelPolleres> danbri: anything on i8n?
12:52:34 <AxelPolleres> ... or should we move on to json?
12:53:14 <jtandy> q+
12:53:21 <danbri> q-
12:53:24 <jtandy> zakim, unmute me
12:53:24 <Zakim> jtandy should no longer be muted
12:53:29 <danbri> ack jtandy
12:53:59 <AndyS> AndyS: need more people involved in JSON conversion.
12:54:06 <jtandy> zakim, mute me
12:54:06 <Zakim> jtandy should now be muted
12:54:11 <AxelPolleres> jeremy: would be interested in json, but over the next week other priorities
12:54:29 <jtandy> sadly - next few weeks ...
12:54:53 <AxelPolleres> danbri: adhoc f2f meetings in london possible with some members around
12:55:06 <AxelPolleres> ... AOB?
12:55:14 <AxelPolleres> ... adjourned.
12:55:25 <phila> rrsagent, make logs public
12:55:29 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make minutes public
12:55:29 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AxelPolleres.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:55:35 <phila> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html phila
12:56:07 <Zakim> -danbri
12:56:08 <Zakim> -gkellogg
12:56:08 <Zakim> -ericstephan
12:56:09 <Zakim> -jtandy
12:56:10 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
12:56:11 <Zakim> -fonso
12:56:11 <Zakim> -DavideCeolin
12:56:13 <Zakim> -phila
13:02:42 <phila> zakim, end meeting
13:02:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'end meeting', phila
13:02:53 <phila> zakim, bye
13:02:53 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were AndyS, DavideCeolin, danbri, phila, AxelPolleres, gkellogg, ericstephan, fonso, jtandy
13:02:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #csvw
13:03:09 <phila> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:03:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/02-csvw-minutes.html phila
13:04:58 <phila> phila has left #csvw
13:56:23 <MathewT> MathewT has joined #csvw
14:03:01 <Mathew> Mathew has joined #csvw
15:19:06 <ivan> ivan has joined #csvw
15:31:10 <ivan> ivan has joined #csvw
16:03:11 <JeniT> JeniT has joined #csvw