14:46:17 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 14:46:17 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-wai-wcag-irc 14:46:19 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:46:19 Zakim has joined #wai-wcag 14:46:21 Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 14:46:21 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes 14:46:22 Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14:46:22 Date: 01 April 2014 14:46:41 agenda + Publications Update 14:48:04 agenda+ New survey of draft responses to comments https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/1stApril2014/ 14:48:04 > 14:48:22 agenda+ update on https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses 14:48:59 agenda+ review of David MacDs http://davidmacd.com/WCAG/wcag-html5-techniques-review.html 14:49:42 agenda+ Update on Techniques progress https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments 14:49:49 Chair: Joshue 14:56:42 bbailey has joined #wai-wcag 14:57:43 Wilco has joined #wai-wcag 14:57:48 WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started 14:57:54 kathleen has joined #wai-wcag 14:57:55 +Bruce_Bailey 14:58:09 zakim, i am bruce_bailey 14:58:09 ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey 14:58:26 +[IPcaller] 14:58:40 zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue 14:58:40 +Joshue; got it 14:58:42 + +1.479.772.aaaa 14:58:46 + +1.910.278.aabb 14:58:54 jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag 14:59:01 zakim,aabb is me 14:59:01 +kathleen; got it 14:59:23 +[IPcaller] 14:59:27 Zakim, aaaa is me 14:59:27 +wilhelm; got it 14:59:37 zakim, mute me 14:59:37 Joshue should now be muted 14:59:37 zakim, ip_caller is Jon_avila 14:59:39 sorry, jon_avila, I do not recognize a party named 'ip_caller' 14:59:47 +Sailesh_Panchang 15:00:00 zakim, who is here 15:00:00 bbailey, you need to end that query with '?' 15:00:07 zakim, who is here? 15:00:07 On the phone I see Bruce_Bailey, Joshue (muted), wilhelm, kathleen, [IPcaller], Sailesh_Panchang 15:00:09 On IRC I see jon_avila, kathleen, Wilco, bbailey, Zakim, RRSAgent, Joshue, MichaelC, wilhelm, trackbot 15:00:18 zakim, unmute me 15:00:18 Joshue should no longer be muted 15:00:26 zakim, ipcaller is Jon_avila 15:00:26 +Jon_avila; got it 15:00:57 +MartijnHoutepen 15:01:24 scribe bbailey 15:01:40 scribe: bbailey 15:01:48 zakim, sribe:bbailey 15:01:48 I don't understand 'sribe:bbailey', bbailey 15:01:54 sailesh has joined #wai-wcag 15:02:07 Scribenick: bbailey 15:02:20 zakim, mute me 15:02:20 Joshue should now be muted 15:02:29 zakim, unmute me 15:02:30 Joshue should no longer be muted 15:02:52 zakim, who is noisy? 15:02:56 zakim, who is on phone? 15:02:56 I don't understand your question, bbailey. 15:03:02 zakim, who is here? 15:03:04 On the phone I see Bruce_Bailey, Joshue, wilhelm, kathleen, Jon_avila, Sailesh_Panchang, MartijnHoutepen 15:03:04 Joshue, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 7 (53%), Bruce_Bailey (15%), Joshue (14%), MartijnHoutepen (17%) 15:03:06 On IRC I see sailesh, jon_avila, kathleen, Wilco, bbailey, Zakim, RRSAgent, Joshue, MichaelC, wilhelm, trackbot 15:03:14 zakim, i am MartijnH 15:03:14 ok, Wilco, I now associate you with MartijnHoutepen 15:03:56 zakim, take up item 1 15:03:56 agendum 1. "Publications Update" taken up [from Joshue] 15:04:04 zakim, mute me 15:04:04 MartijnHoutepen should now be muted 15:04:33 Joshue: we are trying to keep up 6 month schedule 15:04:45 +??P39 15:04:51 New techniques will need to be completed by May to meet this. 15:05:33 zakim, next item 15:05:33 agendum 2. "New survey of draft responses to comments https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/1stApril2014/" taken up [from Joshue] 15:06:02 ITEM: 1. Comment LC-2906: Draft response 15:06:04 LC-2906: Technique F24 promotes non-existing "color" attribute of body in example #2 (#16) 15:06:11 LC-2906: Technique F24 promotes non-existing "color" attribute of body in example #2 (#16) 15:06:31 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2906 15:07:04 marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag 15:07:06 Joshue: Read, paraphrase Jon A's response 15:07:24 Jon A; Had comments on his proposed response 15:07:31 + +1.650.214.aacc 15:07:47 Issue is that cannot set only one of foreground or background 15:08:01 adam_solomon has joined #wai-wcag 15:08:13 Discuss that author cannot set only one of foreground or background 15:08:15 +[IPcaller] 15:08:28 zakim, [IPcaller] is adam_solomon 15:08:28 +adam_solomon; got it 15:08:53 Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG 15:08:53 Implicit assumption is that user is not using UA color settings 15:08:56 +q 15:09:58 Concern is that user might have set preference for white on black instead of black on white 15:10:41 Concern with deprecated code snippets 15:11:01 Testability of techniques is a concern 15:11:10 ack me 15:11:28 Proposal is to reorder technique to address commenter concerns 15:12:08 Jon: Reorder will make technique clearer 15:12:16 zakim, queue? 15:12:16 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:12:53 Jon: Some writing may be based on old browser behavior 15:13:10 Example, behavior of in-line CSS has changed over time 15:13:21 +David_MacDonald 15:13:42 ack me 15:14:28 Question if rearranging proposed response requires particular response 15:15:00 Joshue: Propose additional action item to Jon 15:15:28 Concern that description also needs to be updated with proposed rewrite 15:15:51 ack me 15:15:59 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/F24.html 15:16:02 ACTION: Jon_A review F24 15:16:02 Error finding 'Jon_A'. You can review and register nicknames at . 15:16:22 ACTION: Jac_avila to review F24 15:16:22 Error finding 'Jac_avila'. You can review and register nicknames at . 15:16:33 ACTION: Jon_avila to review F24 15:16:33 Error finding 'Jon_avila'. You can review and register nicknames at . 15:17:01 ACTION: avila to reve F24 15:17:01 Created ACTION-248 - Reve f24 [on Jonathan Avila - due 2014-04-08]. 15:17:23 ACTION: Joshue to update technique F24 as proposed 15:17:23 Created ACTION-249 - Update technique f24 as proposed [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-04-08]. 15:18:02 RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2906 as proposed 15:18:19 LC-2910: Avoid saying colour contrast https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140306/2910 15:18:35 ITEM: 2. Comment LC-2910: Draft response 15:19:11 Joshue: Summarize that most developers think "colour/color contrast" 15:19:41 ack me 15:19:44 Technically, it actually luminance or hue contrast 15:20:13 q+ 15:20:39 ack kath 15:20:44 Joshue: Survey response is to just use “contrast” 15:21:11 But this means we need to keep open, because it is a large editorial review 15:21:26 q- 15:22:02 Kathleen: Contrast is often really scoped to television type display, not HMTL contrast 15:22:27 David: suggest just using “contrast ratio” per WCAG language 15:22:36 +Marc_Johlic 15:22:48 http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20080430/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html 15:22:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_ratio 15:23:13 David asserts we don’t use “color contrast” in techniques 15:23:46 Group reviews understanding doc 15:24:31 http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html 15:24:33 Editorial review may be not be too much work since not much actual use of phrase 15:25:21 Links from understanding reference “color contrast” 15:25:36 q+ 15:26:21 Kathleen: Google hits for contrast ratio are on devices 15:26:35 q+ 15:26:45 if you type web contrast ratio the expected items appear in Google. 15:27:10 q+ 15:27:23 +James_Nurthen 15:27:31 q+ 15:27:32 Joshue: web developers think text colors 15:27:38 q- 15:27:39 ack kathleen 15:27:40 David has joined #wai-wcag 15:28:07 BB: Kathleen mentioned the physical devices, there is also the print world, and they call it colour contrast. 15:28:17 zakim, make minutes 15:28:17 I don't understand 'make minutes', David 15:28:21 ack Loretta 15:29:03 Loretta: reminds us that gregg was lead in being very careful with terminology 15:30:26 Discussion that WCAG original writing was very deliberate with writing 15:30:55 s/with writing/with phrasing/ 15:31:14 f73 talks this it in detail. 15:31:39 q- 15:31:44 q- 15:32:23 ack Jon 15:32:31 Joshue that “color” is poorly defined in vernacular 15:32:46 zakim, queue? 15:32:46 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:33:04 Jon: F73 discusses color and hue 15:33:16 rrsagent, make minutes 15:33:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-wai-wcag-minutes.html David 15:33:56 ACTION: Joshue to change reference to color contrast to contrast ratio 15:33:57 Created ACTION-250 - Change reference to color contrast to contrast ratio [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-04-08]. 15:34:02 RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2910 as proposed 15:35:01 ITEM: 3. Comment LC-2891: Draft response 15:35:11 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2891 15:35:32 LC-2891: The technique doesn't solve the problem of the success criterion SCR21 15:35:37 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2891 15:36:28 Joshue: General response is to leave open 15:37:00 Loretta: This does seem like another case where we may need to revisit the test procedure and rewrite. 15:37:25 zakim, unmute me 15:37:25 MartijnHoutepen should no longer be muted 15:37:41 Loretta: Bug filed by Wilco when reviewing test procedure 15:37:51 q+ 15:38:20 Wilco: innerHTML used to be more problematic 15:38:46 Wilco: Purpose of technique is not clear 15:39:35 Loretta: Technique may be more of a suggestion or best practice 15:40:31 Joshue: Technique is valuable, but context needs work 15:40:52 zakim, queue? 15:40:52 I see David on the speaker queue 15:40:57 ack david 15:41:07 Joshue asks if technique might be expanded? 15:41:30 +q 15:41:52 ack mart 15:41:55 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/SCR21 15:41:59 David suggest that technique was too easily interpreted (Gov of Canada) as a failure 15:43:11 Wilco: Technique does not seems better associated with 1.3.1 15:43:32 s/does not seems/seems/ 15:44:30 James: Technique really applicable to *any* generation of HTML 15:45:08 Joshue: Maybe need list of good/bad authoring techniques, then report back 15:45:27 +q 15:45:29 James raises question of how to fit script generation of content into WCAG 15:45:34 ack mart 15:45:50 -adam_solomon 15:46:47 Wilco: This technique (SCR21) is applicable to many success criteria 15:48:02 Sailesh: Technique is targeted to 1.3.1 15:48:52 Joshue looking for volunteers to review scripting generally 15:49:33 zakim, mute me 15:49:33 MartijnHoutepen should now be muted 15:50:10 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2891 15:50:22 +1 15:50:30 RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2891 as proposed 15:51:01 zakim, agenda? 15:51:01 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 15:51:02 2. New survey of draft responses to comments https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/1stApril2014/ [from Joshue] 15:51:02 3. update on https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses [from Joshue] 15:51:02 4. review of David MacDs http://davidmacd.com/WCAG/wcag-html5-techniques-review.html [from Joshue] 15:51:02 5. Update on Techniques progress https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments [from Joshue] 15:51:08 Joashue: Accessible scripting very important foundational topic 15:51:14 zakim, next item 15:51:14 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Joshue 15:51:24 zakim, queue? 15:51:24 I see Sailesh_Panchang on the speaker queue 15:51:30 ack sail 15:51:32 zakim, queue? 15:51:32 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:51:35 zakim, next item 15:51:35 agendum 3. "update on https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses" taken up [from Joshue] 15:52:20 q+ to ask about list 15:52:51 Joshue: check on work status 15:53:51 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses 15:54:39 q+ 15:54:53 bbailey: can change listing page to link to work in wiki in progress 15:55:01 q- 15:55:01 ack bruce 15:55:05 ack kath 15:55:28 kathleen: question about process, submitted draft response 15:55:34 ack me 15:55:48 zakim, mute me 15:55:48 Michael_Cooper should now be muted 15:56:22 zakim, mute me 15:56:22 Michael_Cooper was already muted, MichaelC 15:56:23 ack me 15:56:26 MichaelC: After submit, you should email editors 15:56:47 Also need to change status in comment tracker 15:56:52 zakim, next item 15:56:52 agendum 4. "review of David MacDs http://davidmacd.com/WCAG/wcag-html5-techniques-review.html" taken up [from Joshue] 15:57:16 zakim, mute me 15:57:16 Michael_Cooper should now be muted 15:57:24 http://davidmacd.com/WCAG/wcag-html5-techniques-review.html 15:57:26 q- 15:57:40 David: Summarizes table 15:58:34 David: Did a pass, reviewing if caveats needed for HTML 5 15:58:57 David: If no comments, techniques directly applicable as-is to HTML 5 15:59:24 David: If no note, works as-is 15:59:28 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140306/2910 16:00:52 Touching back on LC-2910 16:01:27 Loretta: Caution that we should compete edits before responding to commenter 16:01:44 There may be grammar or other minor edits. 16:02:09 I have to jump off the call. Have a great day! 16:02:18 -Jon_avila 16:02:41 Will not close until drafting complete on two items 16:03:08 David thinks its only one line in 1.4.3 16:03:12 ACTION: Josh to review instances of colour contrast usage and then reply to EO 16:03:12 Created ACTION-251 - Review instances of colour contrast usage and then reply to eo [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-04-08]. 16:03:54 zakim, queue? 16:03:54 I see no one on the speaker queue 16:03:56 RESOLUTION: Leave LC-2910 open 16:04:25 Back to review of David’s summary table 16:04:55 David: Just 15 out of 59 need review 16:05:29 David many techniques back to 1999 HTML 4.0 but work fine in 5 16:05:51 David: Looking for ones that could cause trouble for 5 16:06:14 David: HTML 5 broke very little backward compatibility 16:06:39 Joshue solicits for additional review 16:06:56 James: Would like ability to comment row-by-row 16:07:12 Joshue asks david to port to wiki 16:08:40 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/ 16:08:46 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/ 16:09:10 zakim, queue? 16:09:10 I see no one on the speaker queue 16:09:24 zakim, mute me 16:09:24 Joshue should now be muted 16:09:32 James: Will need cross reference to HTML 5 techniqes too 16:10:05 ack me 16:10:20 s/techniqes/techniques 16:10:43 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments 16:11:36 Discussion of clarifying workflow 16:12:49 David: Asking for suggestion on formatting and presentation 16:13:11 q+ to check that wiki cannot take HTML as input 16:13:17 ack Bruce 16:13:17 Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to check that wiki cannot take HTML as input 16:13:27 ack me 16:13:39 q- 16:13:54 zakim, mute me 16:13:54 Michael_Cooper should now be muted 16:14:45 MichaelC: For table, have use wki markup 16:14:47 zakim, next item 16:14:47 agendum 5. "Update on Techniques progress https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments" taken up [from Joshue] 16:15:13 q+ 16:15:44 ack wilhelm 16:15:49 http://wja.no/t/responsive-technique/ 16:15:57 Joshue: Checks in with Sailesh, Wilco, Whilhelm 16:16:24 s/Whilhelm/Wilhelm/ 16:16:34 +James_Nurthen.a 16:16:37 -James_Nurthen 16:16:58 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Template 16:17:06 Wilhelm: Has proof of concept for 1 / 2 / 3 column responsive design 16:17:07 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Writing_WCAG_Techniques_-_Notes 16:17:34 Joshue reminds folks of URLs for template and instructions 16:17:49 zakim, agenda? 16:17:49 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 16:17:50 5. Update on Techniques progress https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments [from Joshue] 16:18:20 Joshue: Looking for additional volunteers on techniques 16:18:46 -Sailesh_Panchang 16:18:47 - +1.650.214.aacc 16:18:47 -kathleen 16:18:49 -Joshue 16:18:49 -Marc_Johlic 16:18:52 RRS: Make Minutes 16:18:55 -James_Nurthen.a 16:18:56 -wilhelm 16:19:02 rrsagent, make minutes 16:19:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-wai-wcag-minutes.html Joshue 16:19:03 Zakim, list attendees 16:19:03 As of this point the attendees have been Bruce_Bailey, Joshue, +1.479.772.aaaa, +1.910.278.aabb, kathleen, wilhelm, Sailesh_Panchang, Jon_avila, MartijnHoutepen, Michael_Cooper, 16:19:06 ... +1.650.214.aacc, adam_solomon, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, James_Nurthen 16:19:12 -MartijnHoutepen 16:19:21 zakim, bye 16:19:21 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Bruce_Bailey, Joshue, +1.479.772.aaaa, +1.910.278.aabb, kathleen, wilhelm, Sailesh_Panchang, Jon_avila, MartijnHoutepen, 16:19:21 Zakim has left #wai-wcag 16:19:24 ... Michael_Cooper, +1.650.214.aacc, adam_solomon, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, James_Nurthen 16:19:33 rrsagent, list attendees 16:19:33 I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', Joshue. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:19:57 zakim, list attendees 16:20:31 RRSagent, make log public 16:20:45 RRSagent, make minutes 16:20:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-wai-wcag-minutes.html bbailey 16:22:37 bbailey has joined #wai-wcag 17:58:58 Joshue has joined #wai-wcag 20:03:37 Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag