IRC log of dwbpbestpractices on 2014-04-01

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09:21:28 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dwbpbestpractices
09:21:28 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-dwbpbestpractices-irc
09:21:29 [Caroline]
Scribe: Caroline
09:22:06 [Vagner_Br]
Vagner_Br has joined #dwbpbestpractices
09:22:26 [Caroline]
BernadetteLoscio_: do we fo trhough the list or we choose some?
09:23:22 [Caroline]
Ig_Bittencourt: let's start with the subjects related only with BP. If we have time to discuss the others that are also related with Q&G we will do it later
09:23:57 [Caroline]
BernadetteLoscio_: We can skip metadata since we have discussed it yesterday
09:24:02 [nathalia]
I agree
09:24:14 [Caroline]
laufer_: we can check what we have written about it
09:24:23 [nathalia]
long discussion about it yesterday
09:24:40 [Caroline]
BernadetteLoscio_: check https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing#gid=5
09:25:38 [nathalia]
which tab are we looking at?
09:25:49 [Caroline]
the one above
09:25:55 [Caroline]
sorry
09:26:03 [Caroline]
this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing#gid=6
09:26:20 [Caroline]
laufer_: how can we define real time?
09:26:47 [Caroline]
... if we have an update time do we have the old data archived?
09:27:01 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
to me a challenge seems to be that data is often about phenomena in reality which change
09:27:13 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
so data may be added or change to reflect that
09:27:16 [BernadetteLoscio_]
q+
09:27:24 [Caroline]
ack BernadetteLoscio_
09:27:33 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I can't hear you guys on the hang out
09:27:34 [laufer_]
q+
09:27:34 [Caroline]
BernadetteLoscio_: real time
09:27:55 [Caroline]
... if we have a dataset we can have it in a catalogue, it might be in an API
09:28:06 [Caroline]
laufer_: we can have this in dataset that are not in real time
09:28:16 [CarlosIglesias]
q+ to say bp should be just provide data in a timely manner and then elaborate defs or whatever on that basis
09:28:18 [Caroline]
... we have a close time to update the data
09:28:55 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
now we can hear!!!
09:28:58 [markharrison_]
q+ to say that metadata should express frequency of updates, timestamp of last update
09:29:06 [Caroline]
Zakim, who`s in the queue
09:29:06 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who`s in the queue', Caroline
09:29:13 [BrianMatthews]
BrianMatthews has joined #dwbpbestpractices
09:29:17 [Caroline]
q?
09:29:29 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1 to CarlosIglesias view.
09:29:36 [JohnGoodwin_]
According to Wikipedia...Real Time Data: Real-time data denotes information that is delivered immediately after collection. There is no delay in the timeliness of the information provided. Real-time data is often used for navigation or tracking.
09:29:37 [Caroline]
BernadetteLoscio_: real time is to update the data
09:29:49 [Caroline]
markharrison_: very real time can be observation data
09:29:50 [gatemezi]
gatemezi has joined #dwbpbestpractices
09:30:21 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
There are two issues: the data/time when the observation was made
09:30:29 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
The time it takes for data to reach the intended audience
09:31:02 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
If the the time if takes for data to reach the intended audience (from observation) is known, then, the data/time when the observation was made can be derived
09:31:26 [Caroline]
laufer_: in the position of the consumer: I need data. Some data with one week of update is okay
09:31:34 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
To = the data/time when the observation was made
09:31:36 [Caroline]
... they say they will update weekyl
09:31:44 [Caroline]
q?
09:31:46 [nathalia]
why this a best practice?
09:31:48 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
Td = The time it takes for data to reach the intended audience
09:32:01 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
The problem is that Td is usually unknown
09:32:08 [Caroline]
... if the data is 3 weeks without update could be a problem
09:32:21 [gatemezi]
It all depend on the type of data...
09:32:23 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
So, the best practice is how to deal with the fact that we may need to know To
09:32:27 [Caroline]
... if it is olny one data set we must garantee this data set is updated
09:32:35 [nathalia]
yes, agree gatemezi
09:32:37 [Caroline]
BernadetteLoscio_: this is one requirement
09:33:01 [Vagner_Br]
q+
09:33:05 [markharrison_]
q+ to say that in addition to specifying expected update frequency for data, there is an (SLA) expectation to honour that update frequency
09:33:15 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q+
09:33:18 [Caroline]
... the question is: one of the use cases is on real time.
09:33:19 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
Data may have to be indexed in time
09:33:33 [CarlosIglesias]
q?
09:33:37 [Caroline]
... this data can be available
09:33:46 [Caroline]
ack CarlosIglesias
09:33:46 [Zakim]
CarlosIglesias, you wanted to say bp should be just provide data in a timely manner and then elaborate defs or whatever on that basis
09:33:47 [CarlosIglesias]
ack me
09:33:56 [nathalia]
someone is making noise
09:34:02 [Vagner_Br]
ack laufer
09:34:05 [gatemezi]
In weather domain, you might need more frequent update (10 minutes?) , while geodata for districts can be updated each year ?§
09:34:09 [Caroline]
CarlosIglesias: we should try to define what best practices are
09:34:19 [Vagner_Br]
zakim, who ismaking noise?
09:34:19 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Vagner_Br.
09:34:22 [Caroline]
... defining what is real time
09:34:40 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
Zakim can't track the sound of hangout
09:34:44 [CarlosIglesias]
http://sunlightfoundation.com/policy/documents/ten-open-data-principles/
09:35:06 [Caroline]
... if you have real time data you must update it
09:35:18 [Caroline]
.... some data have vaule only on real
09:35:51 [BrianMatthews]
q+
09:35:52 [Caroline]
... we could have at least the titles of the best practices
09:36:22 [Caroline]
ack markharrison_
09:36:22 [Zakim]
markharrison_, you wanted to say that metadata should express frequency of updates, timestamp of last update and to say that in addition to specifying expected update frequency for
09:36:25 [Zakim]
... data, there is an (SLA) expectation to honour that update frequency
09:36:35 [Caroline]
markharrison_: the metadata should express the frequency
09:36:44 [BrianMatthews]
q-
09:36:52 [Caroline]
... the expectation to provide the data with some frequency
09:37:01 [BrianMatthews]
markharrison +1
09:37:11 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
yes!
09:37:30 [nathalia]
+1 markharrison_
09:37:34 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
Data is a requirement: data may have to be indexed in time, in order to cope with the fact that we do not know Td
09:37:36 [Caroline]
q?
09:37:57 [Caroline]
ack Vagner_Br
09:38:06 [Caroline]
Vagner_Br: I want to support CarlosIglesias
09:38:31 [Caroline]
... and to add that in terms of requirements the point is that data and metadata should be available
09:38:45 [Caroline]
... we should change the title
09:39:25 [Caroline]
BrianMatthews: the data should be availave in a determined frequency
09:39:26 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I meant "that is a requirement"
09:39:28 [gatemezi]
Is it possible to have metadata without the data is about?
09:39:45 [Caroline]
laufer_: so the publisher has the obligation to do it on time
09:39:50 [Caroline]
ack Ig_Bittencourt
09:40:11 [markharrison_]
Useful to declare update frequency in metadata to avoid the need to poll more frequently than the update frequency
09:40:15 [Caroline]
Ig_Bittencourt: if you have data from the stock market you must update it in every 5min
09:40:50 [BrianMatthews]
q+
09:41:09 [Caroline]
... in this case, the best practices should stablished that the publisher should release the data with a certain frequency
09:41:13 [Vagner_Br]
s/data and metadata should be available/data and metadata should be available in a timely manner/
09:41:22 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
but when you upadate you may: (i) add new time-indexed entries or (ii) change the content of data [no time-indexing]
09:41:32 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
these are two different approaches
09:41:52 [Caroline]
CarlosIglesias: we can write also general best practices regarding this issue
09:41:54 [markharrison_]
q+ to ask about support for standing query (publish/subscribe) capabilities for streaming data feeds?
09:42:08 [Caroline]
q?
09:42:50 [Caroline]
ack gatemezi
09:42:52 [Caroline]
gatemezi: Is it possible to have metadata without the data is about?
09:42:57 [Caroline]
ack JoaoPauloAlmeida
09:43:06 [Caroline]
JoaoPauloAlmeida: but when you upadate you may: (i) add new time-indexed entries or (ii) change the content of data [no time-indexing]
09:43:16 [Caroline]
... these are two different approaches
09:43:24 [Caroline]
laufer_: I think this is an issue of archiving
09:43:34 [Caroline]
... you must mantain the old data
09:44:13 [markharrison_]
q+ to respond to laufer - it depends whether the dataset is journalled or not - the metadata should declare whether the data is journalled (and time-stamped)
09:44:25 [Caroline]
q?
09:44:35 [Caroline]
ack BrianMatthews
09:44:47 [Caroline]
BrianMatthews: I don't think we need to worry about the tec are being used
09:44:54 [Caroline]
... we should stick to the method
09:45:08 [Caroline]
... what policy and frequency the publisher
09:45:14 [gatemezi]
+1 to BrianMatthews point
09:45:18 [Caroline]
... not worry about tec
09:45:21 [Caroline]
q?
09:45:27 [Caroline]
ack markharrison_
09:45:27 [Zakim]
markharrison_, you wanted to ask about support for standing query (publish/subscribe) capabilities for streaming data feeds? and to respond to laufer - it depends whether the
09:45:31 [Zakim]
... dataset is journalled or not - the metadata should declare whether the data is journalled (and time-stamped)
09:45:41 [Caroline]
markharrison_: we never delete anything regarding data
09:45:54 [Caroline]
laufer_: we now have to make a sentence summaring all this
09:46:13 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
markharrison_, if the data is not time-indexed then we have to delete!
09:46:16 [Caroline]
q?
09:46:27 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
so, there should be best practices for time-indexing, this is my point
09:46:48 [Caroline]
CarlosIglesias: we could make an action to people detail it
09:47:42 [Caroline]
+1 João Paulo
09:48:06 [nathalia]
ok, nice
09:48:40 [markharrison_]
PROPOSAL: Metadata should declare 1) expected/scheduled frequency of update, 2) if the dataset is journalled (i.e. no deletions, only append), 3) if the dataset it timestamped (can request data for a specific time interval), 4) actual timestamp of last update
09:49:22 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
+1
09:50:06 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1
09:50:13 [Vagner_Br]
s/it timestamped/is timestamped/
09:50:28 [gatemezi]
Just to understand the 2) point..you mean adding in a different URI?
09:50:39 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
This is a good proposal, I think we should just also note that there should be guidelines/best practices for the specification of time
09:51:00 [Caroline]
ack markharrison_
09:51:01 [gatemezi]
..when you "append"...
09:51:17 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
if you point the laptop to the person with the floor, it will help us a lot (sorry to ask you guys that)
09:51:24 [Caroline]
markharrison_: ir doesn't change
09:51:37 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
thanks
09:51:54 [gatemezi]
No just to understand laufer_
09:51:58 [markharrison_]
gatemezi: URI / access method for the dataset should not change, in my opinion
09:52:14 [Caroline]
laufer_: we are not saying how the data will be provided to the consumer
09:52:17 [gatemezi]
because imagine you were already consuming data in time to
09:52:25 [Caroline]
... you can have an URI or an API
09:52:33 [gatemezi]
ok
09:52:35 [Caroline]
... we don't know how the publisher will define the scheme
09:52:49 [gatemezi]
+1 then
09:52:52 [JohnGoodwin_]
+1
09:52:54 [laufer_]
+1
09:52:58 [BrianMatthews]
+1
09:53:02 [nathalia]
+1
09:53:07 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1
09:53:08 [Caroline]
+1
09:53:09 [markharrison_]
+1
09:53:16 [CarlosIglesias]
+1
09:53:19 [Vagner_Br]
+1
09:53:54 [nathalia]
Why we don't use wiki for this?
09:54:29 [nathalia]
Ok Carol, I understand
09:54:47 [Caroline]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing#gid=6
09:55:03 [Caroline]
it is in the Group Challenges
09:55:13 [Caroline]
Caroline: Can someone put on the wiki later?
09:55:20 [gatemezi]
RESOLVED: Metadata should declare 1) expected/scheduled frequency of update, 2) if the dataset is journalled (i.e. no deletions, only append), 3) if the dataset it timestamped (can request data for a specific time interval), 4) actual timestamp of last update
09:55:24 [nathalia]
I can put
09:56:09 [Caroline]
ACTION: nathalia will put RESOLVED 1 on the Wiki (RESOLVED: Metadata should declare 1) expected/scheduled frequency of update, 2) if the dataset is journalled (i.e. no deletions, only append), 3) if the dataset it timestamped (can request data for a specific time interval), 4) actual timestamp of last update)
09:58:50 [Caroline]
Caroline: lets talk about "tools"
09:59:07 [nathalia]
I'm not seeing you
09:59:13 [Caroline]
Vagner_Br: who could explain better what is the idea about "tolls"
09:59:29 [Caroline]
TOPIC: Tools
09:59:52 [Caroline]
laufer_: we must look at the use cases to understand what are tools
09:59:57 [gatemezi]
s/tolls/tools
10:00:01 [nathalia]
the camera is looking to the roof
10:00:22 [nathalia]
much better now
10:00:40 [Caroline]
Ig_Bittencourt: Berna, can you explain about the tools?
10:00:55 [Caroline]
scribe: Caroline
10:01:12 [Caroline]
Bernadete: is related to skill and expertise
10:01:23 [Caroline]
Vagner_Br: when you talk about tools as a challenge
10:01:33 [Caroline]
... how can we generalize that as a challenge?
10:01:44 [Caroline]
Bernadette: I saw this in the use case from Recife
10:01:51 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q+
10:01:54 [Caroline]
laufer_: NYC uses Socrata for example
10:02:00 [Caroline]
Vagner_Br: tools about catalogue?
10:02:06 [Caroline]
Bernadette: in general
10:02:19 [Caroline]
CarlosIglesias: provide a single or centralized access point for the data
10:02:27 [Caroline]
... could be a ckan catalogue
10:02:37 [Caroline]
,,, or another kind
10:02:52 [Caroline]
... matching access to data
10:03:15 [Caroline]
s/,,,/...
10:03:30 [Caroline]
Bernadette: what could be a best practices for this
10:03:34 [Caroline]
q?
10:03:39 [Caroline]
ack Ig_Bittencourt
10:03:51 [Caroline]
Ig_Bittencourt: we should be agnostic
10:04:12 [Caroline]
... a question on documentation: if we have components with APIs, we should provide documentation
10:04:15 [Caroline]
q?
10:04:22 [Caroline]
ack laufer_
10:04:37 [Vagner_Br]
q+
10:04:42 [Caroline]
laufer_: the publisher might have a best practice to publish the data
10:04:58 [Caroline]
... he must choose a tool that can do what the publisher wants
10:05:28 [Caroline]
... the choise of the toll will remain on what the publisher wants
10:05:39 [Caroline]
.. if there is a tool that can do what he or she expects
10:05:55 [Caroline]
... people who have excell needs a kind of tool
10:06:03 [gatemezi]
I am wondering if we should recommend a tool here...
10:06:21 [Caroline]
... if the pulisher thinks that tool is good, we can recommend what is the best practice to choose a tool
10:06:23 [Caroline]
q+
10:06:31 [Ig_Bittencourt]
No gatemezi. According to the charter, we need to be agnostic.
10:06:43 [Caroline]
laufer_: I think we have to think about the consumer and the publisher
10:07:05 [Caroline]
... the publisher has to choose a tool that can do what we want
10:07:09 [Caroline]
ack Vagner_Br
10:07:24 [Caroline]
Vagner_Br: I agree with Ig_Bittencourt and laufer_
10:07:35 [nathalia]
agree with Laufer
10:07:38 [Caroline]
...it is hard to find any kind of requirements
10:07:41 [BrianMatthews]
q+
10:07:52 [gatemezi]
so maybe we can skip this and come back later ?
10:07:53 [Caroline]
... even if we must be agnostic
10:08:12 [Caroline]
... if we say any kind of tools you use should be well documented
10:08:20 [CarlosIglesias]
q+ to say the tool is just a mean, the bp is provide centralized access to data
10:08:24 [Caroline]
... if you don't want to say that just drop this topic
10:08:44 [Caroline]
q?
10:09:00 [gatemezi]
A tool can also be an implementation of our bp
10:09:12 [Caroline]
Caroline: we should try to resolve this
10:09:20 [markharrison_]
q+ to say that Tools are very useful for helping data publishers to check that translation of data into different formats retain their meaning
10:09:22 [Caroline]
... at least to have a way to go
10:09:25 [Caroline]
ack BrianMatthews
10:09:46 [Caroline]
BrianMatthews: we can write a recommendation about a method description about a dataset
10:09:59 [Caroline]
.... we can say a data said could publish a data description
10:10:12 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I can't hear a thing
10:10:13 [Caroline]
laufer_: this is a requirement of the publisher
10:10:17 [gatemezi]
s/data said/dataset
10:10:26 [Caroline]
... the tool he will choose it will understand what he needs
10:10:33 [nathalia]
+1 João Paulo
10:10:43 [Caroline]
... we can make a recommendation that he should use
10:11:06 [Caroline]
... you should interoperate with the tools in a standard way
10:11:25 [CarlosIglesias]
q+ to compare this discussion with the a11y use case
10:11:32 [Caroline]
ack caroline
10:11:38 [Caroline]
Caroline: has talked already
10:11:59 [Caroline]
q?
10:12:09 [Caroline]
ack CarlosIglesias
10:12:09 [Zakim]
CarlosIglesias, you wanted to say the tool is just a mean, the bp is provide centralized access to data and to compare this discussion with the a11y use case
10:12:09 [CarlosIglesias]
ack me
10:12:49 [Caroline]
CarlosIglesias: the best practices does not require any tool
10:13:14 [Caroline]
... sometimes it will be an API, sometimes data catalogue, or another thing
10:13:16 [Ig_Bittencourt]
BrianMatthews, you meant we could make a recommendation about metadata about the tool used to publish the data?
10:13:46 [Caroline]
... the BP could provide different set of tool
10:13:52 [Caroline]
s/tool/tools
10:14:17 [Caroline]
.. we could do something similiar to??
10:14:34 [Caroline]
... one one side you have a content for a city guidance
10:14:57 [Caroline]
... on the other side after creating it we can have a data tools guidelines
10:15:44 [Caroline]
q?
10:15:49 [Caroline]
ack markharrison_
10:15:49 [Zakim]
markharrison_, you wanted to say that Tools are very useful for helping data publishers to check that translation of data into different formats retain their meaning
10:16:23 [Caroline]
markharrison_: tools are very useful for data publishers to expose data in multiple formats
10:16:32 [CarlosIglesias]
similar case to WCAG and UAAG use case
10:16:38 [Caroline]
... but then can also be useful to check that the meaninful of the data is not lost
10:16:54 [Caroline]
Vagner_Br: we are not defining any kind of requiremnts, only few recommendations
10:17:06 [Caroline]
laufer_: we don't have to say what is the tool
10:17:14 [Caroline]
... but a best practice to use the tools
10:18:03 [CarlosIglesias]
one is general best practices and the other is about how tools should implement best practices
10:18:05 [Caroline]
q?
10:18:29 [CarlosIglesias]
we can follow here a similar approach
10:18:54 [gatemezi]
ok, waiting for the proposal..
10:19:01 [CarlosIglesias]
proposal: bp is to provide a single access point for data
10:19:10 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
?
10:19:18 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I don't understand the proposal
10:19:23 [gatemezi]
Me neither
10:20:05 [CarlosIglesias]
is a general bp for providing an access point (i.e data catalog, api, sparql endpoint, etc.)
10:20:12 [CarlosIglesias]
technology agnostic
10:20:25 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
but "single" is quite strong
10:20:39 [CarlosIglesias]
centralized?
10:20:46 [CarlosIglesias]
is that better?
10:21:04 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
centralized to me is not good, ... the web has a distributed nature
10:21:14 [nathalia]
I think centralised is not good
10:21:31 [nathalia]
agreed to JoaoPaulo
10:21:33 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida
10:21:42 [Vagner_Br]
New text is coming out
10:22:37 [markharrison_]
Proposal: Data might be provided via various access mechanisms including (but not limited to) Data catalogues, APIs, SPARQL endpoints, REST interfaces, dereferenceable URIs - and best practice is that data publishers should make use of available tools to support multiple access mechanisms
10:23:02 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
ok
10:23:08 [nathalia]
much better
10:23:09 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
now I get it
10:23:38 [Caroline]
ack CarlosIglesias
10:23:46 [BrianMatthews]
q+
10:24:01 [Caroline]
CarlosIglesias: "single' or "centralized" means to catalogue
10:24:09 [Caroline]
ack
10:24:12 [Caroline]
ack brian
10:24:21 [Caroline]
q?
10:24:34 [Caroline]
BrianMatthews: could we provide a mechanism vocab?
10:24:55 [JohnGoodwin_]
q+
10:25:44 [Caroline]
... regarding centralized issue
10:26:02 [Caroline]
... if you can find a description of the dataset you can find them in different places
10:26:22 [Caroline]
laufer_: specification IDRA is a way to specify APIs
10:26:34 [laufer_]
hydra
10:26:35 [BrianMatthews]
HYDRA
10:26:39 [Ig_Bittencourt]
http://www.hydra-cg.com/spec/latest/core/
10:26:41 [Caroline]
s/IDRA/HYDRA
10:26:44 [JohnGoodwin_]
could we extended VOID http://www.w3.org/TR/void/#access
10:26:45 [laufer_]
is a way of describing web apis
10:26:45 [Caroline]
q?
10:27:05 [Caroline]
ack JohnGoodwin_
10:27:30 [Vagner_Br]
ack meq?
10:27:30 [Caroline]
JohnGoodwin_: maybe we could extented to VOID
10:27:40 [Caroline]
+w
10:27:41 [Caroline]
+q
10:29:02 [gatemezi]
In Dcat,http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/ there are different ways to access a dcat:Distribution
10:29:41 [gatemezi]
..like dcat:accessURL , API and so on
10:30:06 [Vagner_Br]
q+
10:30:23 [Caroline]
q?
10:30:50 [markharrison_]
Proposal 2: There is value in provision of a small number of well-known data catalogues - and registration of data with such catalogues (or auto-discovery and indexing/classification by such catalogues based on published metadata) - so that data can be found easily
10:31:12 [Caroline]
q?
10:31:28 [Caroline]
ACk CarlosIglesias
10:31:36 [Caroline]
ack Caroline
10:31:51 [Caroline]
Caroline: we have another proposal "2"
10:31:53 [Caroline]
ack Vagner_Br
10:32:07 [Caroline]
Vagner_Br: I don't think makes sense to talk about centralized data
10:32:33 [Caroline]
... I agree with JoaoPauloAlmeida that centralized is aginst the spirit of the Web
10:32:34 [HadleyBeeman]
rrsagent, make logs public
10:32:49 [Caroline]
q?
10:33:10 [gatemezi]
Second proposal 2 does not mention "tools" ?
10:33:19 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
+1 to Vagner_Br and markharrison_'s first proposal
10:33:28 [nathalia]
I don't understand this proposal
10:34:14 [markharrison_]
Proposal 2 is additional - to try to address concerns expressed by CarlosIglesias
10:34:43 [nathalia]
ok
10:35:17 [gatemezi]
+1 for the first proposal
10:35:38 [BrianMatthews]
q+
10:35:40 [Caroline]
ack to vote
10:35:48 [nathalia]
proposal 2 is not related to tools
10:35:48 [Caroline]
ack BrianMatthews
10:35:57 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
the text of the 2nd proposal is obscure
10:36:33 [Caroline]
BrianMatthews: proposal 2 is like saying we should not have more than a few catalogues
10:36:43 [Caroline]
+1 JoaoPauloAlmeida and Bria
10:36:48 [nathalia]
it is not related to the discussed topic
10:36:50 [Caroline]
s/Bria/Brian
10:37:30 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
is not about tools, but about discoverability
10:37:50 [Caroline]
CarlosIglesias: we should think more about the feredations concept
10:38:06 [Caroline]
laufer_: we are talking about tools to provide access
10:38:16 [Caroline]
... how we are organizing this information
10:38:52 [BrianMatthews]
Reworded: Proposal 2-a: The registration of data within data-set catalogues (or auto-discovery and indexing/classification by such catalogues based on published metadata) should be supported so that data can be found easily.
10:38:56 [Caroline]
... maybe we could change "multiple" for "federated"
10:39:30 [Vagner_Br]
Proposal 1: Data might be provided via various access mechanisms including (but not limited to) Data catalogues, APIs, SPARQL endpoints, REST interfaces, dereferenceable URIs - and best practice is that data publishers should make use of available tools to support multiple access mechanisms
10:39:31 [markharrison_]
+1 to BrianMatthews proposal 2a
10:39:33 [nathalia]
I think the text is better now
10:39:48 [CarlosIglesias]
+1
10:39:51 [Vagner_Br]
+1
10:39:51 [Caroline]
+1
10:39:54 [gatemezi]
+1
10:39:55 [markharrison_]
+1 to Proposal 1
10:39:57 [laufer_]
+1
10:40:01 [BrianMatthews]
+1
10:40:03 [nathalia]
+1 to proposal 1
10:40:04 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1 to Proposal 1
10:40:07 [CarlosIglesias]
proposal: to further discuss the federation concept in relation with previous proposal
10:40:11 [JohnGoodwin_]
+1
10:40:15 [Caroline]
RESOLVED: ata might be provided via various access mechanisms including (but not limited to) Data catalogues, APIs, SPARQL endpoints, REST interfaces, dereferenceable URIs - and best practice is that data publishers should make use of available tools to support multiple access mechanisms
10:40:25 [laufer_]
+1 to carlos
10:40:26 [gatemezi]
s/ata/data
10:40:36 [CarlosIglesias]
+1
10:40:52 [Vagner_Br]
for voting now proposal 2: to further discuss the federation concept in relation with previous proposal
10:41:06 [CarlosIglesias]
+1
10:41:18 [Vagner_Br]
+1
10:41:19 [Caroline]
0
10:42:35 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
ok, after the break will the whole group reconvene?
10:43:09 [JohnGoodwin_]
+1
10:43:23 [nathalia]
According to the agenda
10:43:32 [Vagner_Br]
For voting now Brina's proposal Proposal 2-a: The registration of data within data-set catalogues (or auto-discovery and indexing/classification by such catalogues based on published metadata) should be supported so that data can be found easily. [07:39] <@Caroline> ... maybe we could change "multiple" for "federated"
10:43:36 [markharrison_]
+1
10:43:37 [Caroline]
+1 to proposal 2-a
10:43:38 [nathalia]
we continue the discussion in griups
10:43:38 [laufer_]
+1 to brian
10:43:43 [BrianMatthews]
+1
10:43:53 [Vagner_Br]
+1 for prosal 2a
10:43:57 [markharrison_]
s/Brina/Brian/
10:44:04 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1 to Proposal 2-a
10:44:29 [Caroline]
RESOLVED: The registration of data within data-set catalogues (or auto-discovery and indexing/classification by such catalogues based on published metadata) should be supported so that data can be found easily. [07:39] <@Caroline> ... maybe we could change "multiple" for "federated"
10:44:43 [nathalia]
s/griups/griups
10:44:48 [nathalia]
s/griups/groups
10:44:50 [Vagner_Br]
RESOLVED to further discuss the federation concept in relation with previous proposal
10:45:18 [Vagner_Br]
RESOLVED: to further discuss the federation concept in relation with previous proposal
10:45:27 [nathalia]
it is time to break?
10:46:57 [HadleyBeeman]
Yes, nathalia — I think they are getting coffee
11:04:23 [Vagner_Br]
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11:12:30 [nathalia]
ok
11:14:06 [Caroline]
zakim, generate minutes
11:14:06 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'generate minutes', Caroline
11:16:13 [markharrison]
markharrison has joined #dwbpbestpractices
11:16:32 [Caroline]
Scribe: JohnGoodwin_
11:17:38 [HadleyBeeman]
Your minutes are here: http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-dwbpbestpractices-irc
11:17:49 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
yes
11:18:05 [Caroline]
TOPIC: Privacy/security
11:18:56 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I am a total newbie in this topic
11:19:06 [JohnGoodwin_]
Caroline: is everybody awake?
11:20:21 [Ig_Bittencourt]
Capability URLs: http://www.w3.org/TR/capability-urls/
11:20:27 [JohnGoodwin_]
Ig_Bittencourt: we could look at capabiliy URLs as a means to hide data on the web
11:20:39 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I think we should start by reviewing the challenges in the spreadsheet
11:21:36 [BrianMatthews]
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11:21:48 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
as listed in the spreadsheet it is not about confidentiality-integrity and availability of the data itself
11:21:55 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
it is about the content of data
11:22:01 [JohnGoodwin_]
markharrison: these are a form of obfscuation?
11:22:08 [JohnGoodwin_]
Ig_Bittencourt: yes
11:23:44 [JohnGoodwin_]
laufer_: we can't have private data published on the web
11:23:45 [markharrison]
q+ to say that capability URLs only work for one-time access in a limited time window
11:24:13 [JohnGoodwin_]
Ig_Bittencourt: can provide access to a group of people
11:24:14 [Caroline]
q?
11:24:22 [Caroline]
ack markharrison
11:24:22 [Zakim]
markharrison, you wanted to say that capability URLs only work for one-time access in a limited time window
11:24:49 [JohnGoodwin_]
markharrison: capabilities URLS only work for one time access, but not for repeated access of data
11:25:10 [JohnGoodwin_]
... we have to respect data protection legislation
11:25:24 [markharrison]
q+ need to respect Data Protection legislation - especially for personally identifiable data
11:25:37 [Caroline]
q?
11:25:46 [JohnGoodwin_]
Ig_Bittencourt: example - data from health areas
11:26:04 [JohnGoodwin_]
... medical history of individual people
11:26:44 [JohnGoodwin_]
laufer_: no use cases for publishing such personal data due to issues of privacy
11:27:07 [JohnGoodwin_]
... what is the metadata about privacy and security?
11:27:20 [CarlosIglesias]
q+ on his vision on this (1) published data by default with only limitation of privacy/security (2) data combination and merging (3) personal data management
11:27:31 [JohnGoodwin_]
Ig_Bittencourt: also related to quality!?
11:27:44 [Caroline]
q?
11:27:44 [markharrison]
q+ often the solution / best practice is to publish aggregated data at coarser granularity, so that the original sensitive raw data cannot be extracted / reverse-engineered
11:27:58 [Caroline]
q?
11:28:03 [markharrison]
q+ to say that often the solution / best practice is to publish aggregated data at coarser granularity, so that the original sensitive raw data cannot be extracted / reverse-engineered
11:28:08 [Caroline]
ack CarlosIglesias
11:28:08 [Zakim]
CarlosIglesias, you wanted to comment on his vision on this (1) published data by default with only limitation of privacy/security (2) data combination and merging (3) personal
11:28:11 [Zakim]
... data management
11:28:17 [JohnGoodwin_]
CarlosIglesias: three things here
11:28:34 [Caroline]
q?
11:30:32 [Caroline]
ack markharrison
11:30:32 [Zakim]
markharrison, you wanted to say that often the solution / best practice is to publish aggregated data at coarser granularity, so that the original sensitive raw data cannot be
11:30:35 [Zakim]
... extracted / reverse-engineered
11:32:10 [JohnGoodwin_]
Vagner_Br: privacy and security is data publisher responsibiliy - no our concern to make any recommendation/requirement?
11:32:50 [JohnGoodwin_]
markharrison: if publisher is aware raw data is sensitive then they have responsibility whether to publish fine grained data or aggregate so cannt identify individuals
11:32:54 [BrianMatthews]
q+
11:33:14 [Caroline]
+q
11:33:25 [laufer_]
q+
11:33:27 [Caroline]
ack BrianMatthews
11:33:57 [JohnGoodwin_]
BrianMatthews: are people aware of P3P? W3C initiative closed some years ago.
11:34:05 [BrianMatthews]
http://www.w3.org/P3P/
11:34:18 [JohnGoodwin_]
... guidelines about privacy etc.
11:34:39 [JohnGoodwin_]
... P3P could provide useful material to consult
11:34:45 [Caroline]
ack Caroline
11:34:56 [Caroline]
ack laufer
11:34:59 [Caroline]
+q
11:36:18 [JohnGoodwin_]
Vagner_Br: best practice is that publishers should provide mechanisms to control privacy
11:36:59 [JohnGoodwin_]
s/Vagner_Br/Laufer
11:37:09 [Caroline]
ack Caroline
11:37:51 [markharrison]
+q to say that an example of commercially sensitive data is serial-level traceability data (which can reveal inventory volumes, trading relationships, flow patterns) - such data is shared on a 'need-to-know' basis but consumers might be interested in a high-level summary of this data, without needing access to every observation event
11:38:07 [BrianMatthews]
P3P is more about gathering and using private data - focussed on data consumers rather than data providers
11:38:47 [Caroline]
q?
11:38:48 [JohnGoodwin_]
Caroline: proposes two directions: 1) Principles for person data, and also consider technical issues e.g. P3P
11:38:50 [Caroline]
ack markharrison
11:38:50 [Zakim]
markharrison, you wanted to say that an example of commercially sensitive data is serial-level traceability data (which can reveal inventory volumes, trading relationships, flow
11:38:53 [Zakim]
... patterns) - such data is shared on a 'need-to-know' basis but consumers might be interested in a high-level summary of this data, without needing access to every observation
11:38:53 [Zakim]
... event
11:39:50 [CarlosIglesias]
q+ to say minimum requirement is legislation
11:40:07 [JohnGoodwin_]
markharrison: need permissions
11:40:15 [Caroline]
q?
11:40:22 [JohnGoodwin_]
... it's complicated
11:40:31 [Caroline]
ack CarlosIglesias
11:40:31 [Zakim]
CarlosIglesias, you wanted to say minimum requirement is legislation
11:41:29 [Caroline]
q?
11:41:39 [JohnGoodwin_]
CarlosIglesias: minimal requirement is to comply with data legislation
11:42:25 [Caroline]
q?
11:42:32 [Vagner_Br]
ack need
11:42:32 [Zakim]
need, you wanted to respect Data Protection legislation - especially for personally identifiable data
11:43:10 [markharrison]
q+ to ask if there is a Freedom of Information aspect to request not only what data a company collects about an individual - but to ask whether - and where that data is published on the web?
11:43:18 [Caroline]
ack mark
11:43:18 [Zakim]
markharrison, you wanted to ask if there is a Freedom of Information aspect to request not only what data a company collects about an individual - but to ask whether - and where
11:43:21 [Zakim]
... that data is published on the web?
11:44:13 [JohnGoodwin_]
markharrison: is there consequency for FOIs for publishing data on the web?
11:46:33 [laufer_]
provide different permissions to access data
11:46:46 [BrianMatthews]
q?
11:47:11 [JohnGoodwin_]
laufer_: why/how can we give permission to access data?
11:47:14 [nathalia]
I'm not listening you
11:47:24 [Vagner_Br]
q+ to say Data Security/Privacy is a matter of eithe public legislation or internal policy. Shouldn't we avoid any requirements? Should we make any recommendation on traceability and licencing?
11:47:38 [BrianMatthews]
q+
11:47:42 [markharrison]
q+ to suggest considering the concept of security realms - to indicate in metadata what security credentials should be presented in order to gain access to the data
11:47:53 [Caroline]
q?
11:48:16 [Caroline]
ack Vagner_Br
11:48:16 [Zakim]
Vagner_Br, you wanted to say Data Security/Privacy is a matter of eithe public legislation or internal policy. Shouldn't we avoid any requirements? Should we make any
11:48:19 [Zakim]
... recommendation on traceability and licencing?
11:49:22 [JohnGoodwin_]
Vagner_Br: data security and privacy are topics for government legislatoin and interal policy of organisation
11:49:35 [JohnGoodwin_]
rrsagent, make logs public
11:49:40 [nathalia]
\o/
11:52:51 [Caroline]
q?
11:52:56 [Caroline]
ack BrianMatthews
11:53:28 [JohnGoodwin_]
BrianMatthews: are we in a good position today to make concrete recommendations - should we park this discussion for now?
11:53:42 [JohnGoodwin_]
+1
11:53:46 [markharrison]
+1
11:53:47 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1
11:53:48 [Caroline]
ack markharrison
11:53:48 [Zakim]
markharrison, you wanted to suggest considering the concept of security realms - to indicate in metadata what security credentials should be presented in order to gain access to
11:53:51 [Zakim]
... the data
11:53:53 [laufer_]
+1
11:56:03 [nathalia]
agree with markharrison
11:57:20 [Ig_Bittencourt]
An RDF Schema for P3P 1.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/p3p-rdfschema/
11:57:57 [Ig_Bittencourt]
and http://www.w3.org/TR/P3P/
11:58:09 [markharrison]
Proposal: Acknowledging that much further discussion is needed on security, metadata could include information about security realms (see OASIS SAML/XACML) that apply to restricted-access data on the web. Realms indicate which security credentials need to be presented in order to be considered for access to the data.
11:59:10 [JohnGoodwin_]
+1
11:59:15 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
`=1
11:59:22 [nathalia]
+1
11:59:28 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
+1
11:59:50 [laufer_]
+1
11:59:54 [Caroline]
+1
12:00:13 [CarlosIglesias]
+1
12:00:21 [markharrison]
+1 and also note that other technologies such as http://www.w3.org/TR/P3P/ may also be relevant to consider in metadata
12:00:47 [Vagner_Br]
+1
12:00:59 [Caroline]
RESOLVED: Acknowledging that much further discussion is needed on security, metadata could include information about security realms (see OASIS SAML/XACML) that apply to restricted-access data on the web. Realms indicate which security credentials need to be presented in order to be considered for access to the data.
12:00:59 [BrianMatthews]
+1
12:01:14 [markharrison]
Proposal: Lunch now?
12:01:14 [Ig_Bittencourt]
0
12:01:15 [markharrison]
+1
12:01:27 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1
12:02:00 [JohnGoodwin_]
+10
12:02:09 [nathalia]
+1 to breakfast
12:02:47 [nathalia]
tks
12:03:01 [JoaoPauloAlmeida_]
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12:03:07 [laufer_]
+1
12:03:12 [Vagner_Br]
+11111
12:03:31 [Caroline]
s/houe/hour
12:03:42 [nathalia]
good breakfast to you JoaoPaulo
12:03:48 [nathalia]
see you
12:19:43 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
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13:04:04 [HadleyBeeman]
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13:12:02 [HadleyBeeman]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:12:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-dwbpbestpractices-minutes.html HadleyBeeman
13:15:26 [markharrison]
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13:17:01 [HadleyBeeman]
We are moving on to skills and expertise.
13:17:10 [HadleyBeeman]
scribenick: hadleybeeman
13:18:25 [HadleyBeeman]
Laufer: A best practice is to study.
13:19:03 [laufer]
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13:19:12 [laufer]
+laufer
13:19:28 [Ig_Bittencourt]
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13:19:32 [CarlosIglesias_]
CarlosIglesias_ has joined #dwbpbestpractices
13:20:04 [CarlosIglesias]
CarlosIglesias has joined #dwbpbestpractices
13:20:11 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q+
13:20:16 [BrianMatthews]
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13:20:18 [HadleyBeeman]
ack ig
13:20:33 [Ig_Bittencourt]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-ld-bp-20140109/
13:20:35 [HadleyBeeman]
IG_bittencourt: The W3C has some best practices about that.
13:21:00 [HadleyBeeman]
…: For example, best practices on publishing linked data. Not useful for any kind of data, but useful for linked data.
13:21:08 [CarlosIglesias]
q+ to add again that, again, we should not focus only on data offer but include also demand
13:21:39 [HadleyBeeman]
ack carlos
13:21:39 [Zakim]
CarlosIglesias, you wanted to add again that, again, we should not focus only on data offer but include also demand
13:22:50 [HadleyBeeman]
Carlosiglesias: We should broaden the focus to include data demand too. Engage with data resuers, help them to acquire the skills needed for data reuse. Universities with business, the civil society organisations, etc. Not just about the skills of the government; all those in the ecosystem.
13:23:44 [HadleyBeeman]
… We should help data reusers as well. Skills and collaboration. Better data culture within society, etc.
13:24:45 [HadleyBeeman]
Laufer: Searching for people who are interested in the same things, and participating in a community will encourage the reuse of the data.
13:25:52 [HadleyBeeman]
CarlosIglesias: Will also help address the problems faced by data reusers. For example, civil society organisations often don't have skills in IT. Most people don't have these skills. It's the entire data chain, involve them all in the process of opening the data.
13:26:47 [markharrison]
q+ so can we recommend that publishers of data on the web should provide some simple examples of how it can be used / accessed and what it can be used for?
13:27:00 [HadleyBeeman]
ack mark
13:27:28 [CarlosIglesias]
Some useful references for this point:
13:27:30 [CarlosIglesias]
http://www.businessofgovernment.org/report/designing-open-projects-lessons-internet-pioneers
13:27:33 [BrianMatthews]
+1 markharrison
13:27:39 [HadleyBeeman]
markharrison: We should recommend to publishers of data on the web to include simple examples of how to use their data. Gives data reusers confidence to try.
13:27:43 [BrianMatthews]
And other good documentation
13:27:43 [CarlosIglesias]
http://www.timdavies.org.uk/2012/01/21/5-stars-of-open-data-engagement/
13:28:00 [JohnGoodwin]
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13:28:07 [CarlosIglesias]
were already mentioned first f2f day
13:28:11 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1 markharrison
13:31:31 [Caroline]
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13:32:00 [Caroline]
TOPIC: Skills/Expertise
13:33:33 [hadley]
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13:33:41 [hadley]
google hangout https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpi53b5160goccfvbb33ho18
13:34:24 [HadleyBeeman]
sure
13:34:57 [nathalia]
it is ok here too
13:35:04 [Caroline]
Srcribe: markharrison
13:35:12 [Caroline]
Scribe: markharrison
13:35:33 [HadleyBeeman]
scribenick: markharrison
13:36:02 [Caroline]
q?
13:36:13 [Caroline]
Thank you Hadley!
13:36:36 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q+
13:36:48 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q-
13:37:04 [Vagner_Br]
Vagner_Br has joined #dwbpbestpractices
13:37:58 [JohnGoodwin]
+q
13:38:07 [Caroline]
ack CarlosIglesias
13:38:35 [markharrison]
CarlosIglesias: was discussing about capability / capacity of data publisher and also data re-users / potential re-users.
13:39:10 [JohnGoodwin]
should we consider the '5-stars of data engagement' http://www.timdavies.org.uk/2012/01/21/5-stars-of-open-data-engagement/ and build on these
13:40:04 [markharrison]
... Not only provide the data best practices for data provider. Data providers should encourage re-use by building capacity for external re-users
13:40:09 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
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13:40:40 [markharrison]
laufer: useful to incentivise community of data providers and data users - so both sides can enhance their skills and understand each other's needs
13:40:53 [Caroline]
ack JohnGoodwin
13:41:23 [markharrison]
JohnGoodwin: 5-star scheme of data engagement - see link above (Tim Davies)
13:41:31 [Ig_Bittencourt]
http://www.businessofgovernment.org/report/designing-open-projects-lessons-internet-pioneers
13:41:57 [markharrison]
CarlosIglesias: and also see link http://www.businessofgovernment.org/report/designing-open-projects-lessons-internet-pioneers
13:42:39 [markharrison]
Vagner_Br: concern about burdening data publishers with burden of encouraging re-use
13:43:01 [markharrison]
... more of a recommendation than requirement
13:43:15 [markharrison]
CarlosIglesias: perhaps a SHOULD not a MUST
13:43:29 [Caroline]
q?
13:44:02 [gatemezi]
One way of encouraging reuse is to have metrics for data, by "promoting" them each time they are reused and reported
13:44:11 [markharrison]
... also include for each best practice, some real-world example of how it is being done
13:44:33 [markharrison]
... serves as a proof of implementation of best practices
13:44:52 [markharrison]
laufer: so it's a use case we can point to?
13:45:12 [Caroline]
q?
13:46:06 [markharrison]
Vagner_Br: just wanted to say that we should take care not to only consider the perspective / responsibilities of the data provider
13:46:43 [markharrison]
... expectations in terms of expertise, opening up the data. Would also like to consider the perspective of the consumers and re-users of the data
13:47:12 [markharrison]
... they should encourage government / publishers to open up the data - it's a two-way street
13:47:31 [Caroline]
q?
13:47:50 [Caroline]
q+
13:47:59 [markharrison]
laufer: CarlosIglesias also raised these points - and the need for synergies between data providers and data re-users / consumers - and incentivisation and feedback
13:48:15 [gatemezi]
+1
13:48:27 [markharrison]
Vagner_Br: entire data ecosystem need to play a role
13:48:41 [Caroline]
ack Caroline
13:48:41 [nathalia]
I'm not hearing you
13:49:41 [markharrison]
Caroline: should we explain which roles / actors are in the ecosystems? - data publishers, data re-users, end-consumers of data
13:50:58 [markharrison]
CarlosIglesias: also talk about collaboration and co-operation
13:51:03 [Vagner_Br]
http://blog.okfn.org/2011/03/31/building-the-open-data-ecosystem/
13:51:54 [CarlosIglesias]
Participation and collaboration lessons from Internet pioneers:
13:52:03 [markharrison]
Caroline: also mention about the value of the communities that are already engaged
13:52:04 [CarlosIglesias]
1 - Let everyone play
13:52:14 [CarlosIglesias]
2 - Play nice
13:52:24 [Caroline]
q?
13:52:25 [markharrison]
Caroline: to encourage existing communities to grow
13:52:29 [CarlosIglesias]
3 - Tell what you are doing while you are doing it
13:52:39 [CarlosIglesias]
4 - Use multiple communication channels
13:52:46 [CarlosIglesias]
5 - Give it away
13:52:47 [markharrison]
+1 to CarlosIglesias
13:52:54 [CarlosIglesias]
6 - Reach for the edges
13:53:02 [CarlosIglesias]
7 - Take advantage of all organizations
13:53:12 [CarlosIglesias]
8 - Design for participation
13:53:19 [CarlosIglesias]
9 - Increase network impact
13:53:27 [CarlosIglesias]
and 10 - Build platforms
13:53:44 [Caroline]
+1
13:53:45 [CarlosIglesias]
from http://www.businessofgovernment.org/report/designing-open-projects-lessons-internet-pioneers
13:53:47 [Ig_Bittencourt]
+1 to CarlosIglesias
13:53:49 [CarlosIglesias]
more details there
13:54:45 [markharrison]
+q W3C already maintain lists of tools - but do we need more commentary to say why these are useful
13:55:00 [markharrison]
+q to say W3C already maintain lists of tools - but do we need more commentary to say why these are useful
13:55:20 [CarlosIglesias]
on a side note
13:55:28 [Caroline]
ack markharrison
13:55:28 [Zakim]
markharrison, you wanted to say W3C already maintain lists of tools - but do we need more commentary to say why these are useful
13:55:30 [CarlosIglesias]
may be worth also looking at http://www.webfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/OGD-Indonesia-FINAL-for-publication.pdf
13:55:58 [CarlosIglesias]
and http://data.worldbank.org/sites/default/files/1/od_readiness_-_revised_v2.pdf
13:56:39 [CarlosIglesias]
to see what are the dimensions usually associated to (open) data
13:57:06 [markharrison]
e.g. provide more background in addition to what is already at https://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Tools
13:57:56 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q+
13:58:07 [markharrison]
laufer: interaction within ecosystem is a way to improve skills and expertise of all actors
13:58:18 [Caroline]
ack Ig_Bittencourt
13:58:20 [markharrison]
... and to provide feedback and incentivisation
13:59:16 [Vagner_Br]
q+ to say Are we saying that: The intarction between the ecosystem's actors is the way to increase the expertise and skill among them?
13:59:25 [markharrison]
Ig_Bittencourt: even if we provide links to tools, we need to provide more info to guide which tools to use for specific purposes
13:59:42 [markharrison]
... e.g. could also be helpful to provide benchmarking
14:00:27 [Caroline]
ack Vagner_Br
14:00:27 [Zakim]
Vagner_Br, you wanted to say Are we saying that: The intarction between the ecosystem's actors is the way to increase the expertise and skill among them?
14:00:30 [markharrison]
q?
14:01:33 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q+
14:01:40 [Caroline]
ack Ig_Bittencourt
14:02:25 [markharrison]
Ig_Bittencourt: if we consider all actors, may be interesting to provide some step-by-step guide for publishing data / linked data
14:02:31 [CarlosIglesias]
q?
14:02:38 [Caroline]
ack CarlosIglesias
14:03:05 [gatemezi]
I guess the interaction among the actors in the ecosystem could help increase the quality of the data (detecting and reporting errors, etc)
14:03:17 [nathalia]
I think it is importante consider the consumers too
14:03:25 [Caroline]
+1 to gatemezi and nathalia
14:03:32 [markharrison]
CarlosIglesias: In all projects, a big part is to consider participation - via hackathons, collaboration with entrepreneurs - we can provide some high-level guidance on this
14:03:36 [Vagner_Br]
q+
14:03:38 [nathalia]
how people can reuse the data for another proposals
14:04:11 [markharrison]
... also including educational materials for school and university at every level
14:04:42 [markharrison]
... think about engagement techniques - discuss further later
14:04:42 [Caroline]
ack Vagner_Br
14:04:47 [Vagner_Br]
q+ to say we may suggest examples of interaction among actor not how to
14:05:44 [markharrison]
Vagner_Br: perhaps not a step-by-step guide. Many already exist. See our role is to provide real examples of interactions among actors.
14:06:30 [gatemezi]
CarlosIglesias: not only hack events, but also direct access to the platform (one click registration) and sharing reuse cases and applications.
14:06:44 [Ig_Bittencourt]
Agree that is not to build a stet-by-step but to link them, e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-ld-bp-20140109/
14:07:59 [nathalia]
+1 to Ig e Vagner
14:09:31 [HadleyBeeman]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/01-dwbpbestpractices-minutes.html HadleyBeeman
14:09:40 [Caroline]
q?
14:09:50 [Caroline]
ack Vagner_Br
14:09:50 [Zakim]
Vagner_Br, you wanted to say we may suggest examples of interaction among actor not how to
14:10:41 [Vagner_Br]
Like this? --- the interaction among the actors in the ecosystem could help increase the skils amont them and the value of the data (detecting and reporting errors, etc)
14:10:51 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
we should make sure that we state certain practices that when followed lead to better interaction among actors in the ecosystem
14:11:03 [markharrison]
s/amont/among/
14:11:09 [Caroline]
+1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida
14:11:18 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
this should be our mission, to them increase the value of the whole ecosystem
14:11:47 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
if you follow this advice (best practices) then the data you publish can be more valuable to others
14:12:07 [markharrison]
+1
14:12:15 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I mean in general to all our best practices
14:12:21 [Ig_Bittencourt]
q+
14:12:33 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
our mission is to produce advice to make this ecosystem viable and valuable
14:14:05 [markharrison]
JoaoPauloAlmeida: we can only read you - we cannot hear you by audio on Google Hangout
14:14:49 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
ok, I am also only able to followw in text. So, perhaps my comment is a bit out of context. I understood that Vagner_Br was reasoning on the mission of the group, ...
14:14:58 [markharrison]
laufer: collective effect of collaboration improves the value of the data by improving expertise of all actors
14:15:00 [Caroline]
ack Ig_Bittencourt
14:15:04 [gatemezi]
JoaoPauloAlmeida: I think what we are saying is that there should be a "way" for different actors to come together and "speak about" the data, the way they are used, etc.. And this can be achieved via many channels (hackathon, other events, etc..)
14:15:21 [markharrison]
+1 to gatemezi
14:15:31 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
thanks gatemezi that clarifies
14:15:35 [markharrison]
- need feedback loop from users to publishers
14:15:45 [Caroline]
who on the hangout is listening us?
14:15:58 [JoaoPauloAlmeida]
I can't...
14:16:04 [nathalia]
i'm not listening well