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14:55:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-html-a11y-irc
14:55:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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14:55:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:55:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:05 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:55:06 <trackbot> Date: 31 March 2014
14:55:28 <MarkS> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Media Sub-Group
14:55:37 <MarkS> Chair: Mark Sadecki
14:55:46 <MarkS> agenda+ Identify Scribe
14:55:46 <MarkS> agenda+ Introductions
14:55:46 <MarkS> agenda+ Identify Priorities and Work Items
14:55:46 <MarkS> agenda+ Media Accessibility User Requirements [4]
14:59:17 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()11:00AM has now started
14:59:24 <Zakim> +Mark_Sadecki
15:00:21 <Zakim> +Adrian_Roselli
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15:03:24 <Zakim> +??P2
15:03:34 <janina> zakim, ??P2 is me
15:03:34 <Zakim> +janina; got it
15:07:23 <MarkS> agenda+ meeting frequency
15:07:49 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
15:07:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from MarkS]
15:08:08 <aardrian> scribe: aardrian
15:08:38 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
15:08:38 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, MarkS
15:08:43 <MarkS> zakim, close item 1
15:08:43 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
15:08:44 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:44 <Zakim> 2. Introductions [from MarkS]
15:08:46 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
15:08:46 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Introductions" taken up [from MarkS]
15:09:51 <aardrian> JS: Been part of media sub-team since about 2010. Originally defined as captions only.
15:10:48 <aardrian> MS: New to the team. Main interest is finishing user requiremts doc and circulating it,
15:11:08 <aardrian> MS: Also building demos to show capabilities of HTML5 and test support, along with documentation.
15:12:01 <MarkS> AR: I've been on the TF for about a year.  I'm here because I have an interest in media.  Not sure how much I will bring to the group, but am willing to be a fly on the wall
15:12:45 <aardrian> next item
15:13:13 <aardrian> zakim, next item
15:13:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, aardrian
15:14:26 <aardrian> JS: I think user requirements is a priority, it has stalled.
15:14:41 <MarkS> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/ Media Accessibility User Requirements
15:15:04 <aardrian> JS: Stalled in two places.1. Stalled in TF which took up publishing it.
15:15:40 <aardrian> JS: Did publish as note track document, request for comments, took about 3 years to process the comments.
15:16:03 <aardrian> JS: Processed all the comments except 1 or 2. PF needs to be reminded to finish.
15:16:38 <aardrian> JS: After that stage, probably need to publish another draft.
15:17:06 <aardrian> 2. Second group holding up requirements document: EO
15:17:32 <aardrian> MS: This is the checklist?
15:17:40 <aardrian> JS: No, descriptions of various disabilities.
15:17:48 <aardrian> MS: Nope, it's the checklist.
15:18:14 <aardrian> JS: Yes, EO (Education & Outreach, a WAI working group) needs to get busy on that section.
15:18:39 <aardrian> JS: Judy had concerns with that section and needs to address it.
15:18:51 <aardrian> MS: Should one member from this group be an editor on that document?
15:19:11 <aardrian> JS: Yes, will be happy to ask Michael to add you.
15:19:40 <aardrian> JS: Mark, we are naming you to other documents as well.
15:20:10 <aardrian> JS: Those are the two things holding up user requirements.
15:20:24 <aardrian> JS: I think some sections could be done better...
15:20:47 <aardrian> JS: For example, directing output of alternate track to alternates, such as headphones.
15:21:05 <aardrian> JS: Achievable. Allows one person in a class to hear audio, but not whole class.
15:21:21 <aardrian> JS: Similarly, may want to send captions to only some displays.
15:21:35 <aardrian> JS: The idea of only one display or speaker is bogus.
15:22:06 <aardrian> JS: So where you send each piece should be independently identifiable.
15:22:12 <aardrian> MS: As in "second screen?"
15:22:14 <aardrian> JS: Yes.
15:22:40 <aardrian> JS: This isn't the only group with that requirement.
15:23:00 <aardrian> MS: Any pointers to comments or work done in Shenzhen?
15:23:15 <aardrian> JS: Yes, probably on xtech or PF minutes from Shenzhen, with pointers.
15:23:37 <aardrian> JS: The other group can be found in the HTML Admin mailing list from last year.
15:23:57 <aardrian> MS: Is that a public list?
15:24:01 <aardrian> JS: Yes.
15:24:27 <aardrian> s/that/xtech/
15:24:58 <aardrian> rrsagent, make minutes
15:24:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-html-a11y-minutes.html aardrian
15:25:36 <aardrian> s/TF/PF/
15:27:03 <aardrian> s/2./JS: 2./
15:27:17 <MarkS> ACTION: markS to locate comments and processing notes from Shenzhen
15:27:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-237 - Locate comments and processing notes from shenzhen [on Mark Sadecki - due 2014-04-07].
15:27:29 <aardrian> rrsagent, make minutes
15:27:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-html-a11y-minutes.html aardrian
15:28:21 <aardrian> s/2/JS: 2/
15:28:40 <aardrian> rrsagent, make minutes
15:28:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-html-a11y-minutes.html aardrian
15:30:04 <aardrian> MS: We have some bugs as well, which may be a priority for 5.0.
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15:30:19 <aardrian> MS: The issue of transcript. Thought we might clean it up, add to 5.1?
15:30:31 <aardrian> JS: Yes, not a 5.0 issue anymore.
15:33:19 <aardrian> JS: I owe the group a one-page concept paper describing the kinds of media content we need.
15:33:37 <aardrian> JS: in order for developers to build tools and tests.
15:33:59 <aardrian> MS: You mention testing, should we look at web platform testing effort to see if media tests are robust enough.
15:34:21 <aardrian> MS: Noticed the onQueue event handler for track elements is not supported by anyone but IE.
15:34:31 <aardrian> JS: I agree, I'd hate to lose that one. That's a priority.
15:34:53 <aardrian> s/track/<track>/
15:35:04 <aardrian> JS: find out from the implementors if they intend to do it.
15:35:31 <aardrian> MS: Firefox just added support for <track> driven captions within the last month or so.
15:36:10 <aardrian> MS: Had idea of delivering text-based audio description by stuffing queue changes from <track> into ARIA-Live region.
15:36:22 <aardrian> MS: But need support for onqueue.
15:36:45 <aardrian> AR: I don't know the onQueue handler.
15:36:50 <aardrian> MS: IE supports it.
15:37:01 <MarkS> s/oncqueue/oncuechange
15:37:07 <MarkS> s/onqueue/oncuechange
15:37:20 <aardrian> JS: And we need to keep it, it's part of HTML5. It's at risk if no one implements.
15:38:14 <aardrian> AR: I didn't see that -- cue versus queue.
15:38:16 <aardrian> JS: Primary Media Resource did not exist as a phrase until we came up with it in this group.
15:38:33 <aardrian> MS: EME and other specs have picked up language from this group.
15:39:30 <aardrian> AR: I'm stealing "Situational Disability" for my talk next month. No credit.
15:40:13 <aardrian> MS: Based on Janina's work, we'll want to build demos and test cases.
15:40:37 <aardrian> JS: We have resources we didn't have a year ago, such as Pearson, etc.
15:41:16 <aardrian> AR: Are these groups members in name only or are they participating?
15:41:23 <aardrian> JS: They are actively participating.
15:44:26 <aardrian> MS: That just about covers our scope of work for this group.
15:44:53 <aardrian> JS: That helps define that we don't have to keep this group going forever.
15:45:09 <MarkS> agenda?
15:45:41 <aardrian> next item
15:45:59 <aardrian> AR: Already covered this in last agendum item.
15:46:10 <aardrian> next item
15:46:28 <aardrian> zakim, close this item
15:46:28 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
15:46:29 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:46:29 <Zakim> 5. meeting frequency [from MarkS]
15:46:33 <aardrian> next item
15:48:09 <aardrian> MS: We agreed about two weeks, but based on availability.
15:48:15 <aardrian> JS: I am ok with that.
15:48:27 <aardrian> MS: Standing agenda item at the end of each meeting to schedule the next meeting.
15:48:37 <aardrian> AR: Okie dokie.
15:48:52 <aardrian> MS: I intend to keep the wiki up to date, so it's a good place to review before each meeting.
15:50:09 <MarkS> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Sub-Group Media Subgroup Wiki
15:50:38 <aardrian> Topic: Next Meeting
15:51:05 <aardrian> MS: Should we meet again next week just because we didn't have everyone?
15:51:10 <aardrian> AR: Conflict!
15:51:19 <aardrian> MS: Two weeks?
15:51:50 <aardrian> JS: Monday, April 14, 11AM EST
15:53:13 <aardrian> zakim bye
15:53:17 <aardrian> zakim, bye
15:53:17 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Mark_Sadecki, Adrian_Roselli, janina
15:53:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
15:53:39 <aardrian> rrsagent, make minutes
15:53:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-html-a11y-minutes.html aardrian
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21:45:03 <MarkS> agenda?
21:47:14 <MarkS> trackbot, start meeting
21:47:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:47:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:47:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
21:47:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
21:47:19 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:47:19 <trackbot> Date: 31 March 2014
21:47:21 <MarkS> zakim, clear agenda
21:47:21 <Zakim> agenda cleared
21:49:43 <MarkS> agenda+ Review progress from previous week
21:49:43 <MarkS> agenda+ control Required or not via Jatinder [4]
21:49:43 <MarkS> agenda+ ID Required or not via Jay M [5]
21:49:43 <MarkS> agenda+ Singular CTM and currentTransform from WHAT WG via Rik [6]
21:49:46 <MarkS> agenda+ Reply to Sam/Timeline [7]
21:49:48 <MarkS> agenda+ Review WHAT WG spec changes for cherry picking [8]
21:49:50 <MarkS> agenda+ Continued review of Hit Regions in Editor's Draft
21:49:52 <MarkS> agenda+ Confirmation of attendees at HTML WG F2F April 8-9
21:49:56 <MarkS> agenda+ Next Meeting
21:51:18 <MarkS> Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
21:51:33 <MarkS> Chair: MarkS
21:51:37 <MarkS> Scribe: MarkS
21:55:46 <MarkS> agenda+ Exposing the hit region list
21:56:07 <MarkS> zakim, agenda order is 1,2,10,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
21:56:07 <Zakim> ok, MarkS
21:56:42 <MarkS> agenda+ PointerEvents and event handling
21:56:50 <MarkS> agenda?
21:57:01 <MarkS> zakim, agenda order is 1,2,10,11,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
21:57:01 <Zakim> ok, MarkS
21:58:48 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has now started
21:58:55 <Zakim> +??P0
21:59:26 <jaymunro> jaymunro has joined #html-a11y
22:00:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
22:00:27 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:00:32 <Zakim> +Mark_Sadecki
22:01:09 <jaymunro> give me a minute, audio problems.
22:01:29 <Zakim> +cabanier
22:01:45 <MarkS> zakim, ??P0 is Janina
22:01:45 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
22:01:59 <MarkS> agenda?
22:02:03 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
22:02:08 <jaymunro> zakim, microsoft has me
22:02:08 <Zakim> +jaymunro; got it
22:03:08 <MarkS> zakim, remove item 4
22:03:08 <Zakim> agendum 4, Singular CTM and currentTransform from WHAT WG via Rik, dropped
22:03:15 <MarkS> zakim, agenda?
22:03:15 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
22:03:16 <Zakim> 1. Review progress from previous week [from MarkS]
22:03:16 <Zakim> 2. control Required or not via Jatinder [from 4 via MarkS]
22:03:16 <Zakim> 10. Exposing the hit region list [from MarkS]
22:03:16 <Zakim> 11. PointerEvents and event handling [from MarkS]
22:03:16 <Zakim> 3. ID Required or not via Jay M [from 5 via MarkS]
22:03:17 <Zakim> 5. Reply to Sam/Timeline [from 7 via MarkS]
22:03:17 <Zakim> 6. Review WHAT WG spec changes for cherry picking [from 8 via MarkS]
22:03:17 <Zakim> 7. Continued review of Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [from MarkS]
22:03:17 <Zakim> 8. Confirmation of attendees at HTML WG F2F April 8-9 [from MarkS]
22:03:18 <Zakim> 9. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
22:03:21 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 1
22:03:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review progress from previous week" taken up [from MarkS]
22:03:47 <MarkS> JM: Pixels to Path work is complete.
22:04:03 <MarkS> ...I took out ID but based on discussion, I put that back in as required.
22:04:34 <MarkS> ...I need feedback on the interface for accessing hit regions and hit regions list
22:05:05 <MarkS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/0191.html hit region list interface
22:05:39 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
22:05:57 <JatinderMann> JatinderMann has joined #html-a11y
22:06:11 <MarkS> JM: on hitRegionList, to access items, we don't currently know what the index will be.  I added HitREgionOptions to accomplish that, but I'm not sure if that is going to work for implementers
22:06:21 <MarkS> ...looking for feedback on that approach
22:06:27 <MarkS> RC: I'm not sure that we need this.
22:06:49 <MarkS> JMann: you can keep your own list in JS
22:08:17 <MarkS> JM: I put ID back in, I had taken it out, but I referenced Level 2 and saw that it was referenced in the WebIDL.  I added it back but took out required
22:08:34 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 2
22:08:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "control Required or not via Jatinder" taken up [from 4 via MarkS]
22:09:07 <MarkS> JMann: should we require ID or not?  Last call, we said we shouldn't, waiting to hear from Rik on that.
22:09:19 <MarkS> ...you can always use the ID of the control
22:09:37 <MarkS> RC: What if there is no control, like if you are drawing a dialog on top of an existing button.
22:09:48 <MarkS> JMann: so do we want to support the unbacked regions?
22:09:54 <MarkS> RC: one or the other, or both
22:10:18 <MarkS> JMann: so for Level 1, we won't support unbacked region but because we want to be forward compatible, we ...
22:10:34 <MarkS> RC: how will we remove an item, since that requires an ID
22:10:40 <MarkS> JMann: for Level 1, control is required.
22:10:53 <MarkS> ...for Level 2, control will be optional
22:11:09 <MarkS> RC: it sounds like you won't be able to change that for Level 2
22:12:06 <MarkS> JMann: to be forward compatible with Level 2, we need to make control optional.
22:12:11 <MarkS> ...which is how the spec has it.
22:12:24 <MarkS> RC: but they cannot both be absent
22:12:36 <MarkS> JM: correct, I suggested that in my email
22:13:04 <MarkS> ...I will add that to the spec then to clarify
22:13:42 <MarkS> JS: Should look for precedent on how that should be written.   One of them will be required,
22:14:13 <MarkS> JM: do we want to say the reverse is true?  if there is no ID, you must have a control?  I'll research that.
22:14:35 <MarkS> JS: we should at least have the concepts out, can perfect it later
22:14:35 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
22:14:35 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review progress from previous week" taken up [from MarkS]
22:14:41 <MarkS> zakim, close item 1
22:14:41 <Zakim> agendum 1, Review progress from previous week, closed
22:14:42 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:14:42 <Zakim> 10. Exposing the hit region list [from MarkS]
22:15:01 <MarkS> JMann: to remove a hit region, ID is required.
22:15:07 <MarkS> RC: removing a control will also do that.
22:15:49 <MarkS> JM: in the WebIDL it says "remove hit regions(ID)" probably need to make that match
22:16:09 <MarkS> ...and if we want to remove it, you need to specify an ID
22:16:38 <MarkS> JMann: Level 2 removeHitRegion take an ID.  so it will match the spec text
22:16:50 <MarkS> RC: it will be a regression issue
22:17:16 <JatinderMann> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/master/#hit-regions
22:17:47 <JatinderMann> http://drafts.htmlwg.org/2dcontext/master/#2dcontext
22:18:06 <MarkS> JM: is that the nightly?  I'm not seeing that.  The WebIDL and the spec text both say they take multiple options
22:18:28 <JatinderMann> void removeHitRegion(DOMString id);
22:18:30 <jaymunro> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas/
22:19:49 <MarkS> RC: we need to delete that branch or ask someone to turn it off.  we want to make sure L1 and L2 match
22:20:17 <MarkS> JM: I'll see who I have to contact to fix that
22:20:33 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
22:20:33 <Zakim> agendum 10. "Exposing the hit region list" taken up [from MarkS]
22:21:11 <MarkS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/0191.html exposing hit region list
22:22:52 <MarkS> MS: currently is no way to reference an item in the list if we don't know if it has an ID or a control
22:23:51 <MarkS> JM: if hitRegionList returned hitREgionOptions with the right one...
22:24:02 <MarkS> ...we're only working with ID and control in L1
22:24:13 <MarkS> ...what will we be using it for
22:24:42 <MarkS> RC: i think for now, we should leave it up to the author
22:24:47 <MarkS> JM: to track the list himself
22:24:57 <MarkS> RC: is someone strongly in favor of having a list?
22:25:23 <MarkS> JMann: This was raised by Jacob.  You're right, the author can keep their own list.
22:25:42 <MarkS> ...Jacob was concerned about being able to update existing items I think.
22:25:55 <MarkS> ...we could have a getRegions that returns a list, or an attribute on which the list existed, but that could be overkill
22:26:18 <MarkS> ...the downside is that if I'm not keeping track, and I add a bunch of regions, it could get difficult to manage.
22:26:35 <MarkS> ...do we think its common to remove hit regions?  like a use case in a game?
22:26:41 <MarkS> RS: yeah, sure.  You might also be resizing something?
22:27:10 <MarkS> ...I've seen canvas be used for flowcharts.  dropping objects, resizing objects, etc.  I can see someone doing that.
22:27:24 <MarkS> ...would the author be more likely to reference them by control or ID
22:27:54 <MarkS> JMann: we give you the current path and the ID.  can't change fill rule, can't change path,e tc.  I wonder if this becomes more important in the L2 spec.
22:28:13 <MarkS> ...currently, I can just remove and add a new one.  you can remove by ID, or remove the control itself.
22:28:19 <MarkS> ...then create a new one
22:28:58 <MarkS> JMann: you can walk through the DOM and remove the controls to accomplish this.
22:29:33 <MarkS> RS: we talked about this in ARIA RE: Webcomponents.  I would limit the number of ways you can reference things, at least for L1
22:30:08 <MarkS> JMann: Jacob raised this from an API design POV.  IS there an advantage to exposing the list to developers.  Probably not beyond the developer who can maintain his own list, or walk the DOM
22:30:19 <MarkS> ...It may not be worth the additional complexity
22:30:53 <MarkS> JM: You were talking earlier about changing the hit region.  wouldn't that just happen if you make a new path and assign the control to the new path. wouldn't that replace the old one?
22:31:03 <MarkS> RC: the other one would draw on top.
22:31:59 <MarkS> JM: If you create a new path, then call addHitRegion with an ID that was previously used, shouldn't it just replace the old one?
22:33:04 <MarkS> agenda?
22:33:53 <MarkS> ...If you don't redraw the canvas, the old path will still be there?  ok.
22:34:13 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
22:34:13 <Zakim> agendum 11. "PointerEvents and event handling" taken up [from MarkS]
22:34:46 <MarkS> JMann: talking to Jacob on this one.  Wherever we say mouse event, we should say pointer event.
22:34:56 <MarkS> RS: are new pointer events implemented in all the browsers?
22:35:13 <MarkS> JMann: I know Chrome and IE or Apple and IE.  not sure
22:35:25 <MarkS> RS: did we agree what events we wanted to support? focus?  blur?
22:35:59 <MarkS> ...mousein etc
22:36:17 <MarkS> ...did we want to pass the pointer position through to the fallback element or the hit region.
22:36:26 <MarkS> JMann: looking t what we have now.
22:36:43 <MarkS> RC: it currently doesn't say which are supported
22:37:42 <MarkS> ...it doesn't say anything about that
22:37:49 <MarkS> ...it inherits behavior from HTML
22:39:04 <MarkS> RS: does the canvas element handle all of this?  do we need all the mouse events?
22:41:05 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
22:41:05 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ID Required or not via Jay M" taken up [from 5]
22:41:37 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 11
22:41:37 <Zakim> agendum 11. "PointerEvents and event handling" taken up [from MarkS]
22:42:08 <MarkS> JM: looking at WHAT WG spec, their pointer events look more like our Level 2.  more specific pointer event support.
22:42:50 <MarkS> RC: yes, they have made a lot of changes there.  It seems unclear what it is doing.  Seems like they are adding support for WebApps or something
22:44:02 <MarkS> ...waht should happen when you click on a hyperlink (fallback content) for instance
22:44:46 <MarkS> ...we could send the events to the canvas element, which would still be forwards compatible.
22:45:42 <MarkS> RS: do you have to do all the hit testing yourself?
22:46:10 <MarkS> RC: no, but the author would write the code to handle certain mouse events or pass it through to the fallback
22:46:19 <MarkS> ...just standard event handling.
22:46:25 <MarkS> ...with the ID of the hit region
22:46:44 <MarkS> ...this is the ID of the hit region.
22:46:58 <MarkS> RS: would need to reference the control by ID too
22:48:07 <MarkS> JM: seems like having a standard interface to do this (ref by ID) is ideal.  Argument for making ID required.
22:49:44 <MarkS> RS: the only thing that worries me about ID, in ARIA we talked about using query-selectors to reference stuff in shadow dom
22:49:53 <MarkS> ...worry about limiting this to just ID
22:50:15 <MarkS> RC: if we say an ID is not required, you just wouldn't get the event handling, still get accessibility
22:51:43 <MarkS> RS: I think it would be better to just focus on the hit testing behavior rather than how to reference elements in case we want to change that in the future
22:51:51 <MarkS> RC: seem alike a big change
22:52:04 <MarkS> s/seem alike/seems like
22:52:49 <MarkS> RS: I think managing the list of hit regions, with everything in 2.0 might be better to just focus on the dispatching.
22:52:53 <MarkS> RC: that is the hardest part
22:53:46 <MarkS> RS: isn't there a javascript dispatch event that you can use to retarget it?
22:54:06 <MarkS> RC: harder from the UA perspective.  easy from JS.  lots of special case handling
22:55:44 <MarkS> JMann: I wanted to hear from implementers about whether or not this would be a difficult approach, bad for performance, etc.
22:56:01 <MarkS> RC: It seems like its easy until you have to do event retargeting.
22:56:21 <MarkS> ...may be an issue when things scale to hundreds of hit regions.
22:56:33 <MarkS> ...if the browser doesn't manage it, the author does.
22:58:04 <MarkS> JMann: so today, a listener on the fallback will not get the event.
22:58:15 <MarkS> RS: the authors need to supply an ID if they want to control that.
22:59:05 <MarkS> ...I would use the same ID i used in the fallback content to make it easier.
22:59:13 <MarkS> JMann: seems like we should add that ability.
23:00:35 <MarkS> MS: how about if we specify that if you specify the control's ID but not the hit regions' ID, the hit regions automatically gets the same ID as the fallback element?
23:00:37 <MarkS> RS: not a bad idea
23:01:42 <MarkS> RESOLUTION: canvas element will handle event handling from the hit testing, and will not handle dispatching the event.
23:02:16 <MarkS> RS: what about remove a node? in terms of hit region management.
23:04:13 <MarkS> JM: if you set the control('s ID) and that was duplicated in the ID of the hit regions.  Why would you need both?
23:04:22 <MarkS> RS: wouldn't if you could guarantee they were the same
23:04:56 <MarkS> JMann: why not just require the controls's ID
23:05:26 <MarkS> ...right now they have to control the mapping
23:05:36 <MarkS> RS: any compatibility issues when we go to L2
23:05:51 <MarkS> ...may also have to reference things by selectors.
23:06:02 <MarkS> ...i think webcomponents will affect this.
23:06:09 <MarkS> RC: should we wait until this is ready?
23:06:47 <MarkS> RS: imagine a web component in the fallback content of canvas...
23:06:50 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
23:08:03 <MarkS> JM: so hit region interfaces are being left out for now and we are not specifying whether ID or control are required or not until we work through this issue.
23:08:50 <MarkS> JS: we are going to get pressure from HTML WG on extra time for this
23:09:01 <MarkS> RS: I think we are making great progress and are almost done here.
23:09:13 <MarkS> RC: may be we should add an API to clear all hit regions.
23:09:18 <MarkS> ...add clearRect() back in
23:10:15 <MarkS> ...its still in the WHAT WG spec
23:10:59 <MarkS> RS: lets add clearRect() back in.  can do a clearRect() on the entire canvas to remove all the hit regions.
23:11:15 <MarkS> RC: its still in L2 that way
23:11:31 <MarkS> s/RC/JM
23:11:43 <MarkS> RC: its a little funky
23:11:49 <MarkS> RS: what about clearHitRegions()
23:11:56 <MarkS> RC: I like that
23:12:35 <MarkS> JM: OK, so we are going to add clearHitRegions, not clearRect and change mouse to pointer events
23:12:48 <MarkS> RC: I don't think we should do pointer event change just yet.
23:13:04 <MarkS> RS: we need to talk to other browsers to see if they are supporting hit regions yet.
23:13:14 <MarkS> s/hit regions/pointer events
23:13:42 <MarkS> JM: ID and control are still up in the air.
23:14:18 <MarkS> RS: I think we should leave it up to the author to manage ID's etc.
23:14:51 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
23:14:52 <Zakim> -cabanier
23:14:54 <Zakim> -Mark_Sadecki
23:14:56 <Zakim> -Janina
23:14:58 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
23:14:58 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended
23:14:58 <Zakim> Attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Mark_Sadecki, cabanier, Janina, jaymunro, [Microsoft]
23:15:04 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
23:15:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS