22:05 +jaymunro; got it 22:05 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-html-a11y-minutes.html Minutes from last meeting 22:05 hey jay, I'm going to be a few minutes late. 22:05 +??P2 22:05 zakim, ??P2 is me 22:05 +janina; got it 22:05 +MarkS 22:05 scribe: MarkS 22:05 agenda? 22:06 sees 7 items remaining on the agenda: 22:06 1. Review progress from previous week (pixels to paths, coordinates of hit region, mouse events) [from MarkS__] 22:06 2. Review WHAT WG spec changes for cherry picking [from MarkS__] 22:06 3. Discuss feedback from Jacob Rossi [from MarkS__] 22:06 4. Establish definitive timeline for Level 1 [from MarkS__] 22:06 5. Continued review of Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [from MarkS__] 22:06 6. Possible Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 8-9 [from MarkS__] 22:06 7. Next Meeting [from MarkS__] 22:06 zakim, take up next item 22:06 agendum 1. "Review progress from previous week (pixels to paths, coordinates of hit region, mouse events)" taken up [from MarkS__] 22:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/#hit-regions 22:07 JM: I changed pixels to paths 22:07 +[Microsoft.a] 22:08 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is JatinderMann 22:08 +JatinderMann; got it 22:09 MS: Jay you had some questions in an off-list email, did those get resolved? 22:11 JM: i wasn't sure if we should take the section on clearing regions, or reword it. 22:15 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Mar/0071.html 22:20 zakim, take up next item 22:20 agendum 2. "Review WHAT WG spec changes for cherry picking" taken up [from MarkS__] 22:20 zakim, take up item 3 22:20 agendum 3. "Discuss feedback from Jacob Rossi" taken up [from MarkS__] 22:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Mar/0061.html 22:21 JMann: accessing regions by ID is clumsy, why not just reference by the associated element 22:22 ...we can talk about his on list, get Rik's opinion. we won't need the dictionary if we just require the control and not the ID 22:22 ...for level 1 spec purposed, the dictionary just has control and ID. 22:23 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/#hit-regions 22:23 MS: will that cause any problems when L2 comes around? 22:23 JMann: yes it will. OK. 22:23 ...perhaps we should continue using the dictionary. 22:24 ...should also still question the requirement for ID 22:24 ...it currently sounds like even control is optional 22:24 “If the control member is null or no such region currently exists, let previous region for the control be null.” 22:25 MS: i think that needs to be there for L2 when developers can create "virtual" fallback content and define aria roles states and properties directly in canvas code. 22:26 JMann: i only showed Jacob L1 spec 22:26 ...in the context of L1, having control be optional doesn't a make sense 22:27 ...if we build on this in L2, there is a potential compatibility issue. 22:28 ...it sees like Jacob is finding things that don't make sense when you don't know that its there for L2 22:28 ...want to hear Rik's opinion on why ID and control are optional 22:29 ...the argument type (dictionary) isn't defined any where. 22:29 ...i think its a simple oversight 22:30 ...would want to add the dictionary in, with just control, but that is going to be awkward for developers. 22:31 ...i think we should clarify the reason why we have only one item (control) in the dictionary. 22:31] * richardschwerdtfeger I am back on 22:32 ...he also said there was no way to access the hit region. only add it, and remove it. 22:32 RS: that is bad. 22:32 JMann: i should be able to iterate through hit regions 22:32 ...we could reference it by control. 22:33 RS: we don't have Path yet. 22:33 JMann: we could expose a list of hit regions. 22:33 RS: need a new method that allows us to access the list and add or remove items from it 22:34 JMann: what are the use cases. I would want to change the path of the hit region. 22:34 RS: if its by ID you could replace it. Just require that they have an ID in order... 22:35 JMann: jacob's feedback was that we should reference by control's id, not the id of the region. 22:35 ...use the DOM id for the hit region. 22:36 ...for L1 spec, we don't have path, fill rule, etc only a dictionary of one item. Do we need a dictionary, for only one item. but that is because of L2, which will require a dictionary. 22:36 RS: Explain it in a note that this will be expanded in L2. 22:37 JMann: it was interesting feedback from someone who only looked at the L1 spec. 22:37 ...the other thing is that the spec says that you don't have to specify a control, why would control be optional? 22:39 http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#canvas-mouseevent-rerouting-steps 22:41 MS: its for hixie's concept of unbacked regions 22:41 JMann: if we don't do label and role in L1, we have to make sure that control is required. 22:41 RS: I agree 22:42 ...not sure unbacked region will go anywhere. 22:43 JMann: the spec should handle pointer events. inherit mouse events. Wherever we talk about a mouse event being fired, we should also talk about pointer events being fired. The next question is about touch events. 22:43 RS: what do we say about touch events in the HTML5 spec 22:44 JMann: there is no active work being done on touch events. I think they are deprecated for pointer events 22:44 RS: i think so 22:44 +??P5 22:44 JMann: i think safari and chrome support touch events. 22:44 -janina 22:45 zakim, ??P5 is me 22:45 +janina; got it 22:45 JMann: it sounds like we're taking all of jacob's feedback, remove ID, make control required, we keep the dictionary, figure out a way to expose and iterate through hit regions and to add pointer events to the spec. 22:46 -janina 22:46 RS: Doug is saying that apple doesn't want it 22:47 JMann: lets start with pointer events. if we get feedback on touch events, we can deal with it then. 22:47 +??P2 22:47 ...it would get complicated if we supported touch events. 22:47 zakim, ??P2 is me 22:47 +janina; got it 22:47 JMann: I'll work with Jay to get these changes made. 22:48 ...post to mailing list as well 22:48 JM: sounds like we will be adding new methods for exposing hit regions list. 22:48 JMann: will talk to jacob about how he envisioned that working. 22:48 ...will follow up with him on that. 22:49 MS: will also have to file bugs on WHAT WG for these new methods. 22:50 JMann: and a bug on pointer events too 22:50 MS: I think we should propose spec text with rationale 22:51 JMann: I'm good with that. 22:51 zakim, take up next item 22:51 agendum 2. "Review WHAT WG spec changes for cherry picking" taken up [from MarkS__] 22:51 zakim, take up item 4 22:51 agendum 4. "Establish definitive timeline for Level 1" taken up [from MarkS__] 22:52 JMann: we have good feedback. would love to hear dominic's take on these changes. make sure implementors are OK with changes. 22:54 JM: we will drop ID, we will change mouse to refer to mouse and pointer. and there is the method to access the hit region list. 22:56 JMann: have to go throughout he processing model, capture all processes for control. 22:56 ...i think we can do this in a week. next week review changes. 22:57 JMann: I'd rather get feedback early and change it. It's painful but good. I think it is looking good, hard to say until we get feedback from other implementers. 23:00 ...is it good enough to add a getter method and then something to add and remove 23:00 ...or an update method that handles it 23:00 ...right now we can only link it to an element. what are the use cases. would we link it to a different element? add a path? 23:00 ...I'll come up with something to propose. 23:01 MS: OK, so we will get feedback from dominic on list RE: changes proposed today and share L1 spec with changes already agreed upon for review. Once we have feedback from both dominic and ric it will be easier to establish a timeline. 23:01 -JatinderMann 23:01 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger 23:01 -[Microsoft] 23:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-html-a11y-irc