IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-03-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:45:45 [RRSAgent]
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21:45:45 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-html-a11y-irc
21:45:47 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
21:45:47 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:45:49 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
21:45:49 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
21:45:50 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:45:50 [trackbot]
Date: 17 March 2014
21:45:59 [MarkS]
agenda+ hit regions as Paths vs Pixels (Rik's email) [2]
21:45:59 [MarkS]
agenda+ How events are handled. (Rik's email) [2]
21:45:59 [MarkS]
agenda+ Review Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [1]
21:46:00 [MarkS]
agenda+ Possible Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 8-9
21:46:02 [MarkS]
agenda+ Next Meeting
21:46:56 [MarkS]
Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
21:47:08 [MarkS]
chair: MarkS
21:47:12 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
21:59:16 [Zakim]
WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has now started
21:59:23 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.319.aaaa
21:59:30 [MarkS]
zakim, aaaa is me
21:59:30 [Zakim]
+MarkS; got it
21:59:46 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:59:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
22:01:10 [jaymunro]
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22:02:07 [Zakim]
+cabanier
22:02:20 [MarkS]
zakim, agenda?
22:02:20 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
22:02:21 [Zakim]
1. hit regions as Paths vs Pixels (Rik's email) [from 2 via MarkS]
22:02:21 [Zakim]
2. How events are handled. (Rik's email) [from 2 via MarkS]
22:02:21 [Zakim]
3. Review Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [from 1 via MarkS]
22:02:21 [Zakim]
4. Possible Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 8-9 [from MarkS]
22:02:21 [Zakim]
5. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
22:02:29 [jaymunro]
I'll be a minute late
22:05:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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22:05:42 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:07:06 [MarkS]
zakim, take up first item
22:07:06 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up first item', MarkS
22:07:15 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
22:07:15 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "hit regions as Paths vs Pixels (Rik's email)" taken up [from 2]
22:07:17 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
22:07:24 [jaymunro]
zakim, microsoft has me
22:07:24 [Zakim]
+jaymunro; got it
22:08:33 [MarkS]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/#hit-regions
22:09:17 [MarkS]
MS: What does WHAT WG say?
22:09:20 [MarkS]
RC: It says pixels too
22:09:47 [MarkS]
...it doesn't really matter, but when you start doing calculations, it will be much harder to do those on pixels rather than paths.
22:10:18 [MarkS]
...like determining if there are any pixels on the canvas (if not, triggers clearing of the region list)
22:10:52 [MarkS]
MS: Will that cause any issues since Path is not in spec?
22:11:02 [MarkS]
RC: no, because we already have the current default path.
22:11:19 [MarkS]
JM: Will it affect how it gets implemented once Path gets developed
22:11:21 [MarkS]
RC: no
22:12:01 [MarkS]
...it will be change the spec a bit. clear region that covers the pixels.
22:12:32 [MarkS]
MS: removeHitRegion refers to pixels too
22:12:42 [MarkS]
RC: and the garbage collection algorithm
22:12:53 [MarkS]
...step 11
22:13:24 [MarkS]
JM: so remove that completely?
22:13:27 [MarkS]
RC: yes, I think so
22:13:56 [MarkS]
...clear regions that cover the pixels
22:14:09 [MarkS]
...region for a pixel should stay
22:15:07 [MarkS]
...as it is, you have to transcribe the canvas to a bit map and analyze every pixel. expensive operation.
22:16:52 [MarkS]
MS: would have to change step 7 which refers to pixels as well
22:17:01 [MarkS]
RS: Nobody wants to start checking pixels
22:17:31 [MarkS]
s/step 7/addHitRegion step 7
22:17:52 [MarkS]
RC: reword to "Hit Region's path"
22:18:47 [MarkS]
MS: Step 11 in addHitRegion
22:18:57 [MarkS]
RC: that one goes away. That is the problem step.
22:19:45 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
22:19:45 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "How events are handled. (Rik's email)" taken up [from 2]
22:20:25 [MarkS]
RC: set an email to WHAT WG and Ian made a bunch of changes to how events are handled. Not quite sure he answered my question.
22:20:42 [MarkS]
RS: the event just goes to the object that's registered
22:20:55 [MarkS]
...oh, so there is no handler? It will bubble anyway
22:21:16 [chaals]
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22:21:34 [MarkS]
RC: the event target is the canvas, not the fallback element.
22:21:41 [MarkS]
RS: it should
22:21:45 [MarkS]
RC: the spec doesn't say that
22:21:59 [MarkS]
RS: We need to work on the spec to make it say that then
22:22:04 [MarkS]
RC: It currently says, "change the target"
22:22:12 [MarkS]
RS: Redirect? Dispatch the target?
22:22:24 [MarkS]
RC: that doesn't change the target attribute on the event.
22:23:15 [MarkS]
...if you don't change the handler, you can end up sending the event to the fallback when you want to send it to canvas
22:23:47 [MarkS]
RS: we need to specify that it bubbles up until an element is ready to handle the event.
22:24:38 [MarkS]
RC: Robert Ocallahan had question about default action.
22:24:46 [MarkS]
...would be difficult to implement
22:24:53 [MarkS]
RS: you would have to write a handler.
22:25:04 [MarkS]
...the user could always create the handler
22:25:52 [MarkS]
...nothing in the spec says we have to have a default action
22:26:10 [MarkS]
...cynthia shelley wanted to have something like that, but we couldn't et enough implementations for aria 1
22:26:25 [MarkS]
...i think this is a reasonable expectation for now.
22:26:56 [MarkS]
MS: any future compatibility issues if we introduce this in L2
22:27:16 [MarkS]
RS: yeah, maybe. we would have to figure out where it goes.
22:27:29 [MarkS]
...you would have to have a handler on it to activate it.
22:28:52 [MarkS]
RC: if you click on upper corner of the region...
22:29:00 [MarkS]
RS: no fallback elements, canvas is one single object
22:29:20 [MarkS]
...should be relative to the canvas
22:29:37 [MarkS]
...set the location, and have the offset for x,y be within the canvas element.
22:29:54 [MarkS]
RC: the spec doesn't say recalculate where you click.
22:30:21 [MarkS]
RS: if you have a div in html, the x,y position is relative to that div. shouldn't it be the same?
22:30:43 [MarkS]
RC: if you want that, it needs to be in the spec
22:32:01 [MarkS]
JM: if someone can sketch it out, I can write it.
22:32:54 [MarkS]
RS: in my mind, the x, y position would be relative to the bounding rectangle for that button.
22:33:18 [MarkS]
...if nothing hit the region the location would be based on it relative to the bounding box of the canvas.
22:34:32 [MarkS]
RC: Ian made a bunch of changes that we might want to pull in as well.
22:34:58 [MarkS]
...he also refers to other parts of the HTML spec as well. touch events... he changed how click handlers work.
22:35:12 [MarkS]
...do you want to have mouse in and out events too?
22:35:57 [MarkS]
RS: well, we know when the mouse is over the region.
22:36:40 [MarkS]
RC: i can see you wanting that, but it would be a lot of work to add on on mouse in and out
22:37:27 [MarkS]
RS: I think the author would want that... but I can see how it would be additional work.
22:37:40 [MarkS]
RC: we could inform the author
22:38:00 [MarkS]
RS: We could have the keyboard handler and the mouse handler in the same place
22:38:19 [MarkS]
...so the layout engine knows where these things are?
22:38:23 [MarkS]
RC: not really
22:38:27 [MarkS]
RS: oh...
22:39:06 [MarkS]
RC: it would get really complex
22:39:32 [chaals]
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22:40:08 [MarkS]
...i have been doing some experiments. on the canvas element itself, I can add a handler that tests if the mouse is over a hit region.
22:40:59 [MarkS]
RS: To get this done, for canvas 1 we would handle clicks, and general mouse events, (move) save mouse in and out for canvas l2.
22:43:08 [MarkS]
RC: seems like Ian's changes would make it much more difficult to implement.
22:44:36 [MarkS]
RS: if the user moves the mouse over the canvas, accessible object from point will not work.
22:44:54 [MarkS]
RC: i think it will. that is how the a11y tools do it.
22:45:14 [cabanier_]
link to updated event handling: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#canvas-mouseevent-rerouting-steps
22:46:20 [MarkS]
JM: would the author be responsible for recording the location of the region so that he can perform calculations for determining mouse in and mouse out?
22:46:24 [MarkS]
RC: yeah
22:46:42 [MarkS]
JM: OK, so when he calls addHitRegion
22:50:04 [MarkS]
agenda?
22:50:10 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 2
22:50:10 [Zakim]
agendum 2, How events are handled. (Rik's email), closed
22:50:12 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:50:12 [Zakim]
3. Review Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [from 1 via MarkS]
22:50:24 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:50:25 [Zakim]
-cabanier
22:50:26 [Zakim]
-MarkS
22:50:27 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
22:50:28 [Zakim]
WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended
22:50:28 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.617.319.aaaa, MarkS, cabanier, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, jaymunro
22:50:41 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:50:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
23:22:02 [chaals]
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