14:07:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:07:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-dpub-irc
14:07:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:07:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:07:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 53 minutes
14:07:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:07:57 <trackbot> Date: 17 March 2014
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15:00:12 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is here?
15:00:12 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has not yet started, dauwhe
15:00:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see tzviya, gcapiel, philm, liza, Vlad, mgylling, tmichel, karen, dshkolnik, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, astearns__, dauwhe, richardschwerdtfeger, liam, plinss, trackbot
15:00:18 <Luc> Luc has joined #dpub
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15:00:42 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
15:00:42 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has not yet started, azaroth
15:00:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see azaroth, Luc, tzviya, gcapiel, philm, liza, Vlad, mgylling, tmichel, karen, dshkolnik, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, astearns__, dauwhe, richardschwerdtfeger, liam, plinss,
15:00:43 <Zakim> ... trackbot
15:00:49 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:00:49 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:00:51 <Julie> Julie has joined #dpub
15:01:05 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:01:05 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has not yet started, ivan
15:01:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see Julie, azaroth, Luc, tzviya, gcapiel, philm, liza, Vlad, mgylling, tmichel, karen, dshkolnik, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, astearns__, dauwhe, richardschwerdtfeger, liam,
15:01:06 <Zakim> ... plinss, trackbot
15:01:15 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
15:01:16 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is
15:01:53 <gcapiel> Weird it didn't see the phone coming in
15:01:57 <liza> Zakim has a case of the Mondays
15:02:34 <liza> Please mute, someone is very loud
15:02:43 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:02:43 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is
15:02:51 <liza> Quiet now
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15:04:50 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
15:06:17 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
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15:06:43 <dauwhe> mgylling: welcome Paul Belfanti
15:06:47 <liza> Welcome!
15:07:03 <dauwhe> ... Director of content architecture at Pearson
15:07:13 <dauwhe> ... co-chair of EDUPUB workshop
15:07:48 <dauwhe> Paul, are you on IRC?
15:08:48 <dauwhe> mgylling: previous minutes
15:08:54 <dauwhe> ... any objection to approve?
15:08:58 <dauwhe> ... minutes are approved.
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15:09:05 <dauwhe> ... Subject: TPAC
15:09:08 <tzviya> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Mar/0031.html minutes from last week
15:09:39 <dauwhe> ... some back-and-forth; meeting will likely be Thursday-Friday
15:09:46 <dauwhe> ... will not be parallel with CSSWG
15:09:59 <dauwhe> ... which is good and bad
15:10:12 <dauwhe> ... parallel with HTMLWG
15:10:27 <dauwhe> Ivan: we may need Robin or Mike Smith
15:10:40 <dauwhe> mygylling: Ivan will fill in form later today
15:10:49 <dauwhe> ... any other housekeeping items?
15:11:33 <dauwhe> ... Organization of task forces
15:11:34 <Luc> Luc is mute locally
15:11:38 <dauwhe> ... others have been slow
15:11:47 <dauwhe> ... we need organization that fits the resources we have
15:11:47 <tzviya> is someone on a bus?
15:11:52 <dauwhe> ... we will consolidate
15:12:10 <dauwhe> ... and we will document short-term goals for each task force
15:12:20 <dauwhe> ... not necessarily singular, but that's fine
15:12:28 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
15:12:33 <dauwhe> ... so we have more tangible and easy-to-address work items
15:12:39 <dauwhe> ... today we'll go through the task forces
15:12:59 <dauwhe> ... the options were discussed by co-chairs, Tzviya,. and Ivan
15:13:20 <dauwhe> ... a task force for content and markup
15:13:34 <dauwhe> ... this "swallows" behavioural adaption and ??
15:13:42 <dauwhe> ... led by Tzviya
15:13:47 <liza> STEM
15:13:53 <mgylling> s/??/STEM
15:14:03 <dauwhe> tzviya: we will not be addressing images aspect of this
15:14:14 <dauwhe> ... some MathML and STEM stuff may have included images
15:14:23 <dauwhe> mgylling: we talked a lot about overlap
15:14:34 <dauwhe> ... in A11Y there's lots of interest in SVG
15:14:45 <dauwhe> ... it's a crosscutting concern everywhere
15:15:07 <dauwhe> ... need to handle these issues where they arise
15:15:17 <dauwhe> tzviya: not on wiki yet
15:15:21 <Luc> +q
15:15:33 <dauwhe> ... we had call on Friday with Rich and Robin about addressing issue of epub:type
15:15:42 <dauwhe> ... and extend the structural semantic vocabulary
15:15:50 <dauwhe> ... how to refine the terms that exist in publishing
15:15:57 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
15:16:04 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Summary_of_20140314_Structural_Semantics_Call
15:16:06 <dauwhe> ... discussions are outlined in [link TK]
15:16:12 <dauwhe> ... will incorporate into ARIA
15:16:21 <dauwhe> ... IDPF will maintain vocab
15:16:26 <dauwhe> ... validated by W3C validator
15:16:45 <dauwhe> ... EDUPUB alliance will help build vocab along with IG
15:17:01 <dauwhe> mgylling: in terms of wiki link, and this IG producing necessary docs
15:17:19 <dauwhe> ... should 1st deliverable of task force outline use cases for structural semantics and inflection
15:17:22 <Luc> overlap with metadata TF on content markup?
15:17:25 <dauwhe> ... why do we want to do this?
15:17:32 <dauwhe> ... when HTML5 is so great already
15:17:54 <dauwhe> ... should task force discuss topic at general level? Here's the use cases that underline topic
15:18:06 <dauwhe> ... and also discuss and track primary options, like role attribute
15:18:13 <dauwhe> tzviya: that makes sense
15:18:23 <dauwhe> mgylling: i have some sources of documenation
15:18:42 <dauwhe> ... action item for mgylling and tzviya to produce 1st version of doc
15:18:54 <dauwhe> ... changes in ARIA 1.1 and potentially HTML5 and in Validator
15:18:57 <ivan> q+
15:19:00 <dauwhe> ... lots of issue tracking required
15:19:08 <dauwhe> ... good use of IG time
15:19:09 <mgylling> ack ivan
15:19:16 <mgylling> ack Luc
15:19:25 <dauwhe> Luc: overlap with metadata task force?
15:19:30 <dauwhe> ... due to semantic markup
15:19:45 <dauwhe> ... also interested in content markup
15:20:04 <dauwhe> ... when you speak about ARIA, you are bringing many semantic markup to the deepest level of the content
15:20:15 <dauwhe> Ivan: yes, there a clear connection here
15:20:24 <dauwhe> ... What we discussed with Rich and others
15:20:49 <dauwhe> ... we would have a mechanism where role attribute could be used for terms or issues that are not necessarily covered by a18y
15:21:12 <dauwhe> ... this mechanism can be used for educational purposes, or for things like indexes or glossaries
15:21:37 <dauwhe> ... find a mechanism that works everywhere, uses attribute based information rather than XML vocab
15:21:49 <dauwhe> ... we need to establish this mechanism
15:21:57 <dauwhe> bring together ARIA, EPUB, HTML5, etc.
15:22:05 <dauwhe> s/.../Ivan:
15:22:21 <dauwhe> Ivan: question for Tzviya
15:22:27 <dauwhe> ... did we agree on another call?
15:22:42 <dauwhe> ... there were technical issues about ARIA attribues
15:22:48 <dauwhe> tzviya: we did not set up another call
15:23:13 <dauwhe> Ivan: what do we do about that? Do we contact Rich?
15:23:30 <dauwhe> tzviya: he's set on sticking with role attribute
15:23:40 <dauwhe> ... other attributes would be much lengthier conversation
15:23:50 <dauwhe> mgylling: not urgent to have another call
15:23:57 <dauwhe> ... Rich has filed issue in ARIA tracker
15:24:10 <dauwhe> ... next thing is PF needs to sort out in ARIA 1.1
15:24:22 <dauwhe> ... we should particpating in PF calls
15:24:29 <dauwhe> Ivan: what is next step for us?
15:24:36 <dauwhe> tzviya: put use cases behind this
15:24:44 <dauwhe> all: yep
15:24:53 <dauwhe> mgylling: you'll be updating wiki
15:24:56 <dauwhe> tzviya: yes
15:25:01 <dauwhe> Ivan: one liner as well?
15:25:08 <dauwhe> mgylling: that's what I meant
15:25:13 <dauwhe> ... we'll work jointly on document
15:25:22 <dauwhe> ... anything more on content and markup?
15:25:34 <dauwhe> ... so work on MathML and STEM is dormant at the moment
15:25:40 <mgylling> q?
15:25:47 <dauwhe> ... moving on to metadata
15:26:08 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: last week's call was very helpful
15:26:18 <dauwhe> ... talked to Madi after the meeting
15:26:33 <dauwhe> ... made extensive edit to wiki, but didn't work quite right
15:26:47 <gcapiel> Except with regards to a11y on STEM and math
15:27:09 <dauwhe> ... let's first just find out what are the urgent issues from pub POV
15:27:20 <dauwhe> ... asking them what the W3C can do about it is harder
15:27:28 <dauwhe> ... just asking what is hard gets all sorts of answers
15:28:10 <dauwhe> moderator is mucking up the works :)
15:28:28 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: having some issues with wiki
15:28:49 <tzviya> * once it;s on the wiki, you can link
15:29:13 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#SCOPE
15:29:45 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: summary here https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#SCOPE
15:30:28 <dauwhe> ... hand-pick knowledgeable folks, and interview them
15:30:50 <dauwhe> ... let's see what that blitz of interviewing surfaces
15:30:54 <dauwhe> ... what common threads?
15:30:59 <dauwhe> ... do that in a couple weeks
15:31:05 <dauwhe> ... I have list of people to talk to
15:31:10 <dauwhe> ... I did half last week
15:31:18 <dauwhe> ... Laura Dawson at Bowker
15:31:24 <dauwhe> ... Fran Toolan at Firebrand
15:31:44 <dauwhe> ... co-authors of metadata handbook
15:31:52 <dauwhe> ... all those are book-oriented people
15:32:01 <dauwhe> ... didn't reach Graham Bell of Editeur
15:32:13 <dauwhe> ... ??? and ??? from Crossref, involved with STEM
15:32:37 <dauwhe> ... they have a sucessful metadata service that the scholarly publishing world depends on
15:32:45 <dauwhe> ... Diane Kennedy at IDEAlliance
15:32:54 <dauwhe> ... others for Magazine metadata
15:33:02 <dauwhe> ... Kevin Hawkins library
15:33:11 <dauwhe> ... Julie Morris and Len Vlahos of BISG
15:33:21 <dauwhe> ... BISG has lots of members who are not W3C members
15:33:28 <dauwhe> ... BISG has metadata committee
15:33:40 <dauwhe> ... and committees for BISAC and ONIX
15:34:04 <dauwhe> ... summarized first four interviews in wiki
15:34:19 <dauwhe> ... these were all book people
15:34:29 <dauwhe> ... metadata is complex, rich, enormous subject
15:34:36 <dauwhe> ... have trouble getting their heads around it
15:34:46 <dauwhe> ... the problem isn't the metadata, it's how to use it
15:35:02 <dauwhe> ... common theme... it's all about discovery and selling books
15:35:12 <dauwhe> ... aligns with Madi's point when starting IG
15:35:24 <dauwhe> ... also need more granular metadata, need at lower than title level
15:35:25 <Zakim> restarting zakim-bot in 2 minutes to recover bridge connection
15:35:39 <dauwhe> ... two issues:
15:35:55 <dauwhe> ... one, expanded use of role attribute
15:36:06 <dauwhe> ... put subject metadata at granular level in content
15:36:23 <dauwhe> mgylling: are you continuing to do interviews?
15:36:39 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: one other issue is profusion of vocabularies
15:36:57 <dauwhe> ... use your own controlled vocabulary like LOC, thema
15:37:07 <dauwhe> ... another case for something vastly simpler, like schema.org
15:37:25 <ivan> q+
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15:37:37 <dauwhe> ... I'm taking a broad approach
15:37:47 <dauwhe> ... Madi is talking to people at Pearson
15:37:51 <dauwhe> mgylling: thanks bill
15:37:55 <dauwhe> Ivan: small remark:
15:37:55 <mgylling> ack ivan
15:38:12 <dauwhe> ... we have close relationshiop with key people in schema.org
15:38:33 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: not sure where to put interview summaries in wiki
15:38:41 <ivan> s/relationshiop/relationship/
15:38:45 <dauwhe> mgylling: I love data like this from the real world
15:39:00 <dauwhe> ... first: interviewees need to accept that you're publishing their statements
15:39:14 <dauwhe> ... second: is it correct that there will be a consolidated report?
15:39:19 <ivan> I would certainly prefer to anonymize the data if we put it on the wiki
15:39:21 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: yes, of course.
15:39:29 <dauwhe> mgylling: that's your first delivierable
15:39:43 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: will include some issues that are not in scope of W3C
15:39:56 <dauwhe> ... not all these issues are W3C issues
15:40:16 <dauwhe> mgylling: I don't know if Ivan has concerns about that, I think it gives us a grip on the big picture
15:40:30 <dauwhe> Ivan: We can't know what is in scope unless we know what's out of scope
15:40:57 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: ONIX is huge, BISAC is huge, lots of inconsistency in ecosystem
15:41:04 <dauwhe> ... W3C can't solve that problem
15:41:17 <dauwhe> ...W3C can help with simple  thing on top of rich vocabs
15:41:45 <dauwhe> mgylling: if long-term goal is digi pub is first-class citizen of web, then all this needs to work
15:42:05 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: it's all about discovery, and thus it's all about Google
15:42:39 <dauwhe> mgylling: we were going to talk about metadata today
15:42:47 <gcapiel> More reason for Schema.org
15:42:49 <dauwhe> ... do you want to reschedule dedicated metadata call
15:43:11 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: optimal time is when we complete interviews and write up summaries
15:43:15 <dauwhe> ... next week is too soon
15:43:27 <dauwhe> ... good idea, we'll fix a date later
15:43:31 <dauwhe> mgylling: a11y
15:43:43 <dauwhe> ... Topic: a11y
15:43:53 <dauwhe> gcapiel: didn't sync up with Suzanne
15:44:05 <dauwhe> ... did add to wiki
15:44:13 <dauwhe> ... some of what I think should be the current goals
15:44:26 <dauwhe> ... I looked at user agent accessiblity guidelines
15:44:38 <dauwhe> ... worth reviewing that, and proposing edits to take into account digital publishing
15:44:40 <ivan> a11y's one liner on the web: "Review UAAG, EPUB 3 a11y features/guidelines particularly media overlays, CSS Speech, Braille, and SVG"
15:44:56 <ivan> q+
15:44:56 <dauwhe> ... go through EPUB3 accessibliity document that Matt Garish did
15:45:08 <dauwhe> ... we haven't talked about media overlays much
15:45:20 <dauwhe> ... including an audio file with content is part of it
15:45:28 <dauwhe> ... but there are things like skippability
15:45:37 <dauwhe> ... which are covered in EPUB3 but not in OWP
15:46:06 <dauwhe> ... other areas are CSS speech
15:46:14 <dauwhe> ... where the gaps are with braille support
15:46:20 <dauwhe> ... some work with SVG and aria roles
15:46:32 <dauwhe> ... that's also under current goals, working with rich and shepazau
15:46:49 <dauwhe> mgylling: that ties in with Tzviya's work on semantic vocab
15:46:54 <ivan> s/shepazau/shepazu/
15:47:01 <dauwhe> gcapiel: we're thinging from a11y perspective
15:47:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> re the wiki link to metadata, the updated content is NOT yet appearing there
15:47:30 <dauwhe> mgylling: reviewing User agent guidelines, looking at EPUB3 feature set and mapping to OWP... what about resources?
15:47:36 <dauwhe> gcapiel: that's the biggest challeng
15:47:54 <dauwhe> ... for the next six weeks or so I have some time to work on this!
15:48:07 <dauwhe> ... getting time from other folks might be tight
15:48:20 <dauwhe> ... can catch up with Suzanne next week
15:48:31 <dauwhe> ... might not be able to do a meet-up with all folks involved
15:48:40 <dauwhe> mgylling: we'll get back to resource question
15:48:52 <mgylling> q?
15:48:57 <dauwhe> ... more on a11y?
15:49:11 <dauwhe> Ivan: any reason ??? is not mentioned here?
15:49:20 <dauwhe> ... that's a good question.
15:49:21 <ivan> s/???/WCAG/
15:49:28 <dauwhe> ... it probably should fit into this
15:49:48 <dauwhe> ... in terms of priorities, it's more on the Reading Systems
15:50:28 <dauwhe> ... if I had to pick one, it would be to focus on UA Accessiblity Guidelines, then BISG could help
15:50:41 <dauwhe> mgylling: UAAG is in last call, which makes it more urgent
15:50:47 <dauwhe> ???: ????
15:51:16 <dauwhe> mgylling: UUAG review should be prioritized
15:52:26 <dauwhe> ... topic: Latinreq
15:52:30 <mgylling> q?
15:52:43 <dauwhe> dauwhe: want to work on footnotes and drop caps for CSS
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15:52:51 <dauwhe> mgylling: topic: Annotations
15:53:03 <dauwhe> azaroth: some feedback on Annotations doc
15:53:15 <dauwhe> ... some new issues that should be added
15:53:35 <dauwhe> ... then we can publish an updated WD when feedback has been incorporated
15:53:40 <dauwhe> mgylling: how long to wait?
15:53:56 <dauwhe> azaroth: wait until after iAnnotate and W3C conference
15:54:00 <ivan> +1
15:54:24 <dauwhe> mgylling: current goal is to collect community feedback, then produce updated version?
15:54:29 <dauwhe> azaroth: yep.
15:54:40 <dauwhe> mgylling: we'll clean up wiki front page
15:54:49 <dauwhe> ... maybe a separate table for dormant topics?
15:55:06 <dauwhe> Ivan: the front page should reflect current work
15:55:15 <dauwhe> ... as it's a reference for people coming to the wiki
15:55:32 <dauwhe> ... we can also say some topics are not currently being worked on
15:55:40 <dauwhe> ... unsure what to do with security item
15:55:45 <dauwhe> mgylling: will talk to sharad
15:55:51 <dauwhe> Ivan: who should change table?
15:55:58 <dauwhe> ... won't be before tomorrow
15:56:17 <dauwhe> mgylling: add 2nd table below for dormant/pending/future task forces, but keep on first page
15:56:34 <dauwhe> Ivan: i will do that tomorrow
15:56:40 <dauwhe> mgylling: any final questions?
15:56:55 <dauwhe> Ivan: we must congratulate our editors, as we have our first publications out!
15:56:58 <tzviya> congratulations!
15:57:14 <dauwhe> mgylling: and Liza is working on a blog post.
15:57:15 <Luc> c13s
15:57:24 <tzviya> :)
15:57:48 <dauwhe> all: bye
15:57:56 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-dpub-minutes.html ivan
15:58:00 <mgylling> dauwhe, thanks for scribing
15:59:40 <tmichel> rrsagent draft minutes
15:59:51 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
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