19:32:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:32:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/13-svg-irc
19:32:38 <ChrisL> zakim, this wil be svg
19:32:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this wil be svg', ChrisL
19:32:43 <ChrisL> zakim, this will be svg
19:32:43 <Zakim> ok, ChrisL; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM scheduled to start in 58 minutes
19:38:59 <cabanier> meeting in an hour?
19:44:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #svg
20:09:46 <krit> cabanier: I think so, no?
20:10:05 <krit> so 20min
20:10:38 <krit> cabanier: we set the meeting to UTC instead of Boston time. So it is independent of time shifts
20:22:48 <stakagi> stakagi has joined #svg
20:24:09 <heycam> I wonder if I got it right in my message here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2014JanMar/0116.html
20:24:33 <heycam> I said Pacific time would move from 1:30 to 12:30, but it's just coming up to 1:30 now...
20:24:38 <heycam> maybe I got those two around the wrong way
20:27:07 <cabanier> heycam: yes. it was 12:30. now it's 1:30
20:27:20 <heycam> ok
20:27:31 <heycam> no matter how many times I try to get timezones right... :)
20:28:00 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM has now started
20:28:07 <Zakim> +cabanier
20:28:10 <heycam> trackbot, start telcon
20:28:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:28:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:28:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM already started
20:28:15 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:28:15 <trackbot> Date: 13 March 2014
20:28:22 <Zakim> +krit
20:28:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:28:46 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
20:28:46 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:29:21 <nikos> nikos has joined #svg
20:29:40 <Zakim> +??P3
20:29:51 <nikos> zakim, ??P3 is me
20:29:51 <Zakim> +nikos; got it
20:29:51 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
20:29:55 <heycam> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014Mar/0034.html
20:30:07 <Zakim> +??P4
20:30:24 <stakagi> zakim, ??P4 is me
20:30:24 <Zakim> +stakagi; got it
20:31:13 <nikos> http://www.abito.de/
20:32:04 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
20:32:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see cabanier, krit, heycam, nikos, stakagi
20:32:20 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:33:40 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:33:51 <birtles> Zakim, [ is me
20:33:51 <Zakim> +birtles; got it
20:35:22 <krit> Scribe
20:35:29 <krit> ScribeNick: krit
20:35:31 <Zakim> +Tav
20:35:46 <krit> topic: Shipping paint-order
20:35:59 <krit> heycam: Tav did you loo at it
20:36:05 <krit> TabAtkins: yes, in FF and Chrome
20:36:11 <krit> Tav: works fine
20:36:21 <krit> s/TabAtkins/Tav/
20:36:26 <krit> heycam: shall we resolve?
20:36:38 <krit> krit: I created a patch for WebKit
20:36:53 <krit> krit: landing today or tomorrow
20:37:07 <krit> krit: unprefix and no compiler flag
20:37:13 <krit> krit: will be in webkit
20:37:23 <krit> krit: what di yoiu want to resolve?
20:37:28 <krit> heycam: if it is ok to ship
20:37:46 <krit> krit: I would say yes
20:37:51 <krit> heycam: agree
20:37:59 <krit> heycam: resoltuion
20:38:07 <krit> nikos: sounds ok from what I hear
20:38:49 <krit> RESOLUTION: The WG is happy with implementations shipping paint-order in release builds
20:39:12 <krit> heycam: we sip erik's topics for now
20:39:22 <krit> topic: meetin at TPAC
20:39:39 <krit> heycam: the chairs were asked if we meet
20:39:47 <krit> heycam: I think we decided already that we want
20:39:52 <krit> heycam: but want to verify
20:40:18 <krit> krit: last week in october
20:40:26 <krit> Tav: in SF
20:40:45 <krit> heycam: ppl are complaining having it over halloween
20:41:16 <krit> krit: would like not to overlap with CSS WG
20:41:57 <krit> krit: think the CSS WG is meeting monday tuesaday already IIRC
20:42:05 <krit> nikos: would like to meet early
20:42:25 <krit> heycam: prefer monday tuesday but not overlap with CSS WG
20:42:27 <nikos> s/would like to meet early/I think Doug expressed that he would like to meet early
20:42:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:43:06 <krit> krit: think there will be possibilities to meet with other WGs from 111AM to 3PM
20:44:10 <krit> krit: I would be interested in meeting with the a11ky group
20:44:23 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: we are doing implementation guides for browsers too
20:44:28 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: so good idea
20:44:35 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: in CA?
20:44:41 <krit> krit: yes Santa Clara
20:44:48 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: we did not talk about it yet
20:45:14 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: a11ky will probably meet
20:45:25 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: will meet with doug about ARIA
20:45:53 <krit> krit: I would be interested
20:46:09 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: there is a lot that needs to come together to get a11ky working
20:46:26 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: we are coordinating with HTML5 and other and maybe put it on github
20:46:44 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: I will be editor on SVG2 A11ky guide
20:47:29 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: will meet next week first time. Shall we do a task force?
20:47:34 <krit> heycam: think it makes sense
20:47:45 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: shall the work be done on github
20:47:54 <krit> heycam: what ever editors want to do
20:48:27 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: we are getting toward on DOM and one a11ky/
20:48:46 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: did someone work on tab index yet?
20:48:51 <krit> krit: think ed did
20:48:56 <krit> ed: working on it
20:49:00 <krit> ed: still in review
20:49:07 <krit> ed: hope to land it soon in Blink
20:49:16 <krit> richardschwerdtfeger: I got a bug open on mozilla
20:50:15 <krit> topic: whit space attribute
20:50:17 <heycam> https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/AttributeWhitespace
20:50:38 <krit> ed: I want to modify attr parsing rules
20:50:56 <krit> ed: compared the types with HTML5
20:51:04 <krit> ed: to see if we have parsing differences
20:51:12 <krit> ed: covered research in the link
20:51:33 <krit> ed: some have additional restrictions on range for numbers or how many numbers you can specfiy
20:51:39 <krit> ed: mostly floats
20:52:03 <krit> krit: I think in filters we have some integers
20:52:08 <krit> ed: I'll get to it
20:52:20 <krit> ed: HTML5 has validation requirments
20:52:33 <krit> ed: no wsp before or after numbers
20:52:42 <krit> ed: but relaxed on other types
20:53:30 <krit> ed: in my testing sometimes leading whitespaces are allowed
20:53:51 <krit> ed: for HTML5
20:54:08 <krit> ecdwanted to see if we are consistent on parsing rules
20:54:16 <krit> ed: but couldn't quite tell
20:54:46 <krit> ed: not sure if it is consistent with how integers are allowed .. more relaxed
20:54:55 <krit> ed: HTML doesn't have many floating points anyway
20:55:15 <krit> heycam: does what you said apply to most attributes or mainly numbers?
20:55:43 <krit> heycam: and should we do that as well? it is not in your proposal
20:56:04 <krit> ed: it is nicer if you can require properly written attribute values
20:56:25 <krit> ed: maybe give validation errors but still accept it
20:56:42 <krit> ed: would like to have it constant between SVG and HTML
20:56:56 <krit> krit: didn't you say that HTML is not consistent?
20:57:09 <krit> ed: implementations are not consistent
20:57:47 <krit> ed: HTML is very clear although you have to read it forward and backward a couple of times
20:58:02 <krit> ed: so it is hard to get a clear picture what is excepted when
20:58:18 <krit> heycam: do you want to di it by type?
20:58:22 <krit> ed: seems fine
20:59:12 <krit> ed: yellow cells means "mostly" allow wsp
21:00:02 <Zakim> -heycam
21:00:18 <krit> ed: integers are interpreted more or less the same in SVG and HTML
21:00:41 <krit> ed: but for length and percentage might not be consistent
21:01:17 <krit> krit: where do we support length and percentage in HTML?
21:01:37 <krit> ed: don't think there is something like that in HTML
21:01:46 <krit> krit: what about width <img>?
21:01:48 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/infrastructure.html#valid-non-negative-integer
21:02:20 <krit> ed: they just support integer
21:02:30 <krit> ed: but the spec is non-normative there
21:02:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:02:50 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#attr-dim-width
21:02:51 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
21:02:51 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
21:03:55 <krit> ed: it says it has to be in CSS pixels
21:04:10 <krit> ed: if there is a unit?
21:04:15 <krit> s/ed/krit/
21:04:30 <krit> ed: might be ignored
21:04:42 <krit> ed: don't think HTML5 has length attar values
21:04:58 <krit> ed: SVG has some
21:05:15 <krit> ed: most don't say that they take percentage
21:05:17 <ed> https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/AttributeWhitespace#Length_values.2C_type:_.3Clength.3E
21:05:25 <krit> heycam: I started this at some point
21:05:33 <krit> krit: same for me
21:05:59 <krit> krit: in the past we just said length and it meant percentage as well
21:06:08 <krit> heycam: for coords it is the same
21:06:26 <krit> heycam: filters link to SVG1.1 for coord
21:06:50 <krit> krit: I can remove <coord> from Filter effects if needed
21:07:00 <krit> s/heycam/ed/
21:07:10 <krit> ed: don't think it is significant
21:07:18 <krit> ed: looked a t mesh gradients
21:07:28 <krit> ed: x, y are undefined how they parse
21:08:02 <krit> ed: there was a case with width on canvas and video that means auto
21:08:10 <krit> ed: we don't say what it maps tp
21:08:11 <krit> to
21:08:20 <krit> heycam: we copied it from img
21:09:07 <krit> heycam: would we support wsp for keyword + number?
21:09:14 <krit> ed: don't think we allow yet
21:10:12 <krit> heycam: ... would we allow wsp for length but not for the keyword
21:10:35 <krit> ed: do you have a  proposal?
21:10:40 <krit> s/ed/heycam/
21:10:46 <krit> ed: not through all examples
21:10:53 <krit> ed: but would like to be consistent
21:11:33 <krit> ed: boolean -> particular rules bit no wsp and no true and false
21:11:45 <krit> ed: don't think we have any rule for that
21:12:09 <krit> ed: id values mostly from ARIA
21:12:16 <krit> ed: and id attr itself
21:12:24 <krit> ed: text values allow mostly wsp
21:12:41 <krit> ed: some ignore wsp some take it as value
21:12:53 <krit> ed:  but did not check all which take wsp and which don't
21:13:08 <krit> ed: event handlers content attributes are parsed to JS rules
21:13:13 <krit> ed: and allow wsp
21:13:19 <krit> ed: not to SVG to decide
21:13:28 <krit> ed: lang values are inconsistent
21:13:38 <krit> ed: have different definitions for that
21:13:51 <krit> ed: cause of land xml:lang source lang
21:14:02 <krit> ed: some allow lists some one vlaues
21:14:16 <krit> ed: browsing context values
21:14:26 <krit> ed: special parsing rules form html
21:14:40 <krit> ed: media queries allow wsp at least on <source?
21:14:54 <krit> heycam: should allow wsp
21:15:07 <krit> ed: would be nice to get tyne same defintion
21:15:18 <krit> ed: url's can have wsp
21:15:27 <krit> ed: SVG doesn't allow wsp's
21:15:44 <krit> ed: and IRI URI differences
21:15:49 <krit> +URL
21:18:12 <krit> ed: are asp's allowed for transforms?
21:18:17 <krit> krit: yes they are
21:18:51 <krit> s/asp/wsp/g
21:19:44 <krit> heycam: sounds like we should not alliw wsp's for enumerations
21:19:56 <krit> ed: for UAs yes, not sure for validators
21:20:22 <ed> s/UAs/viewer UAs/
21:20:49 <krit> heycam: think we should be consistent
21:22:06 <krit> krit: we may need to consider if wsp can have a meaning sometimes. but most of the time it shouldn't. So I am fine with allowing wsp's
21:22:26 <krit> ed: will write some tests to check interoperability between UAs and come back
21:22:51 <krit> ed: do we want to produce the tables automatically somehow?
21:23:00 <krit> heycam: we can try that
21:23:40 <krit> krit: is it important to know if UAs are interoperable if we discuss chaging the behavior?
21:23:54 <krit> ed: would be nice to know what implementations do
21:24:00 <krit> krit: sure but takes time
21:24:39 <krit> krit: did you want to check interop between implementaiotn on SVG or HTML and SVG?
21:25:21 <krit> ed: want to check if one implementation in HTML parses each type or ignore the values
21:25:36 <krit> ed: want to verify if I understand HTML correctly
21:25:44 <krit> ed: then go on and check SVG
21:25:48 <krit> krit: ok
21:26:29 <krit> action: ed to test behavior on type parsing in HTML and SVG
21:26:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3600 - Test behavior on type parsing in html and svg [on Erik Dahlström - due 2014-03-20].
21:26:43 <krit> heycam: so we come back to that next week?
21:26:46 <krit> ed: yes
21:26:58 <krit> heycam: we have 4 min left6
21:27:18 <krit> topic: SVG in open type fonts requirements
21:27:42 <krit> heycam: the OT spec with SVG glyph needs comments
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21:28:06 <krit> heycam: there is an open issue about text elements and foreign object? should it be disabled
21:28:17 <krit> heycam: think w agreed on foreignObject
21:28:24 <krit> heycam: but didn't discuss text
21:28:37 <krit> heycam: but think it makes sense to not allow it
21:28:52 <krit> heycam: would just be tricky to specify font usage
21:29:32 <krit> heycam: specified on SVG1 but intention is unversioned
21:29:51 <krit> krit: what about future elements?
21:30:01 <Zakim> -Tav
21:30:20 <krit> heycam: should we add a definition for a collection of elements in SVG integration spec
21:30:29 <krit> heycam: ppl seem to like this approach
21:30:52 <krit> heycam: can that be done in a future version of OT SVG?
21:31:01 <krit> s/heycam/krit/
21:31:40 <krit> heycam: it already references SVG integration and I would suggest to have a WD
21:31:59 <krit> krit: don't think that I would want that for current version of SVG integration
21:32:09 <krit> heycam: we can discuss that later
21:33:23 <krit> krit: we discussed theree things to the last one: I'd suggest putting the collection of supported elements into SVG OT
21:34:30 <krit> krit: does MPEG allow referencing EDs?
21:34:42 <krit> heycam: not sure, but that is what we do noe
21:34:45 <krit> now
21:35:18 <heycam> current draft: https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/12860955/740362423/name/w14124_14496-22_WD6_3rd_ed-redline%2Ezip
21:35:58 <krit> krit: I would prefer having the collection
21:36:26 <krit> heycam: would you be ok referencing integration spec?
21:37:54 <krit> heycam: thnk comments are to next week and review is in April
21:38:08 <krit> krit: don't think svg integration is ready till then
21:42:22 <krit> heycam: shall I bring it up on the mailing list?
21:42:25 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:42:26 <Zakim> -heycam
21:42:26 <Zakim> -birtles
21:42:29 <Zakim> -stakagi
21:42:30 <Zakim> -ed
21:42:30 <Zakim> -nikos
21:42:33 <krit> krit: probably better
21:42:34 <Zakim> -cabanier
21:42:39 <Zakim> -krit
21:42:41 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM has ended
21:42:41 <Zakim> Attendees were cabanier, krit, [IPcaller], heycam, nikos, stakagi, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, birtles, Tav, ed
21:42:45 <krit> trackbot, make minutes
21:42:45 <trackbot> Sorry, krit, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
21:42:49 <krit> trackbot, make minutes
21:42:49 <trackbot> Sorry, krit, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
21:42:52 <heycam> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:42:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/13-svg-minutes.html heycam
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