21:55:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:55:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-html-a11y-irc
21:55:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:55:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:55:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
21:55:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
21:55:18 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:55:18 <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2014
21:55:25 <MarkS> agenda?
21:55:51 <MarkS> agenda+ Summary of Canvas discussion at A11y TF Meeting
21:55:51 <MarkS> agenda+ Review proposed draft for Hit Regions L1
21:55:51 <MarkS> agenda+ Possible Coordination meeting at [http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda HTML WG F2F April 8-9]
21:55:51 <MarkS> agenda+ Next Meeting
21:56:12 <MarkS> Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
21:56:17 <MarkS> scribe: MarkS
21:56:47 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has now started
21:56:50 <MarkS> Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
21:56:52 <MarkS> scribe: MarkS
21:56:53 <Zakim> + +1.617.319.aaaa
21:56:57 <MarkS> agenda?
21:57:13 <MarkS> zakim, aaaa is me
21:57:13 <Zakim> +MarkS; got it
21:57:29 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
21:57:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
21:58:16 <MarkS> Chair: MarkS
21:58:37 <MarkS> s/scribe: MarkS//
21:58:45 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
21:58:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
21:58:51 <Zakim> +??P1
21:59:20 <MarkS> s/Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference//
22:00:24 <jaymunro> jaymunro has joined #html-a11y
22:01:12 <Zakim> +cabanier
22:01:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
22:01:58 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:02:24 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
22:02:31 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
22:02:43 <jaymunro> zakim, microsoft.a has me
22:02:43 <Zakim> +jaymunro; got it
22:03:56 <JatinderMann> JatinderMann has joined #html-a11y
22:04:04 <JatinderMann> present+ JatinderMann
22:04:39 <MarkS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/att-0165/HitRegionsL1.html
22:05:03 <MarkS> zakim, who is on the phone
22:05:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', MarkS
22:05:06 <MarkS> zakim, who is on the phone?
22:05:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see MarkS, ??P1, cabanier, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a]
22:05:08 <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has jaymunro
22:06:02 <MarkS> zakim, [Micro is Jatinder_Mann
22:06:02 <Zakim> sorry, MarkS, I do not recognize a party named '[Micro'
22:06:11 <MarkS> zakim, [Microsoft] is Jatinder_Mann
22:06:11 <Zakim> +Jatinder_Mann; got it
22:06:17 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 1
22:06:17 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Summary of Canvas discussion at A11y TF Meeting" taken up [from MarkS]
22:08:27 <MarkS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/att-0165/HitRegionsL1.html
22:08:42 <MarkS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/att-0165/HitRegionsL2.html
22:08:51 <MarkS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/att-0165/HitRegions.patch
22:10:16 <MarkS> JM: Hit Region is a collection of coordinates? pixels?
22:10:26 <MarkS> RS: I think its a collection of paths
22:10:45 <MarkS> JM: Think we need to define what a hit region is.
22:10:52 <MarkS> RC: I think its defined later down in the spec
22:12:08 <MarkS> JM: Just wanted to be clear about what the hit region is describing.  we talk about returning that under mouse events.
22:12:42 <MarkS> JS: Perhaps we need a glossary
22:13:11 <MarkS> JMann: we technically defined it, but its not clear what the purpose of a hit region is
22:13:21 <MarkS> ...maybe we need to make a non-normative description of it
22:13:59 <MarkS> JM: Its more clear now.  I'll play around with it.
22:14:04 <MarkS> ...perhpas make it more clear.
22:14:36 <MarkS> RC: I think we should take out fillRule.  its no where else in the W3C spec.
22:14:45 <MarkS> RS: OK, lets take it out then.
22:15:53 <MarkS> JMann: if we want to add it, we need test cases.  everyone supports fillRule already.  We can do this.
22:16:06 <MarkS> s/we need/all we need is
22:16:15 <MarkS> JMann:does this improve the feature?
22:16:20 <MarkS> RS: I don't know what we get from it.
22:16:43 <MarkS> JMann: we get the non-zero binding rule.  No one does even-add yet, but everyone does nonzero
22:17:29 <MarkS> JMann: fillRUle, point in path, etc all support non-zero, but nobody supports even-odd yet.    Doesn't feel unnatural that this defaults to non-zero either.
22:17:40 <MarkS> JMann: I still think I'm OK cutting git.
22:17:45 <MarkS> s/git/it
22:18:26 <MarkS> RS: why can the ID have an empty value
22:19:29 <MarkS> MS: I think we have it in there to just handle the case
22:19:48 <MarkS> JMann: what if you have two without ids, you just can't remove them?
22:20:15 <MarkS> ...what if two regions reference the same control,
22:20:23 <MarkS> RC: I think the second region overrides it.
22:20:41 <MarkS> JMann: I think its oK to loosen the definition on this.
22:20:53 <MarkS> RS: If the fallback element goes away, the hit region goes away.
22:21:01 <MarkS> RC: I think its covered already
22:22:34 <MarkS> JMann: it feels like the basic feature set.
22:23:05 <MarkS> JM: Later it calls to addHitRegion, what happens if you call it again with the same ID, should that remove the hit region?
22:23:35 <MarkS> RC: It means that you remove the hitRegion. The second one overrides the first one.  it clears the old value first.
22:23:57 <MarkS> RC: Verifeid that if you remove the control from the canvas, you remove the region.
22:24:44 <MarkS> RS: Anytime you remove an associated element, you would remove the region
22:25:20 <MarkS> RC: its not true.  You don't have to have a control.  The region will not have a11y roles, but you will have events.
22:25:28 <MarkS> ...when you hover over that region.
22:25:51 <MarkS> ...that should all be in the spec, no need to change anything.
22:27:32 <JatinderMann> 1.If ID is null, return nothing and abort these steps.
22:28:25 <MarkS> The region identified by the ID ID in a bitmap bitmap is the value returned by the following algorithm (which can return a hit region or nothing):
22:28:36 <MarkS> RS: Is this the region for where you get a hit?
22:28:46 <MarkS> RC: this is just the region identified by an ID
22:28:51 <MarkS> ...like a dictionary
22:29:39 <MarkS> ...algorithm for differentiating regions in the region list
22:29:51 <MarkS> RS: ok, so its an internal method
22:31:52 <MarkS> JM: Do we want to say anything above the list of processing steps that explains the purpose of this
22:32:55 <MarkS> JMann: I think this follows all the normal conventions from specifications
22:33:18 <MarkS> ...don't want to diverge too much from what the WHAT WG spec has.
22:33:31 <MarkS> RS: Is this close to what WHAT WG has?
22:33:44 <MarkS> RC: except for the restrictions on what can be included as fallback content.
22:33:55 <MarkS> RS: One of the things we should probably do is to file bugs on WHAT WG
22:34:02 <MarkS> ...on things like that
22:34:23 <MarkS> ...we want to keep things in sync.  Think the editors should do that.
22:34:40 <MarkS> ...I can write it but I think it would be better coming from the editors.
22:35:31 <MarkS> RC: Any idea why clearRect() is mentioned in that note?
22:35:45 <MarkS> RS: I think Hixie wanted that there. I'm not clear why
22:35:53 <MarkS> RC: It seems odd to do that.
22:36:38 <MarkS> RS: I think he was just trying to make it easier for developers
22:36:53 <MarkS> RC: Clipping does not affect hit regions
22:37:15 <MarkS> RS: Should we be clipping the hit regions, like we did for focus ring?
22:37:39 <MarkS> MS: I think it automatically happens
22:38:15 <MarkS> RC: It is strange that the clearREct thing is non-normative
22:38:59 <MarkS> RS: How does adding a new region clear anything?
22:39:14 <MarkS> MS: Yeah, I don't see that either.
22:41:20 <MarkS> RS: Not sure we have all of the same definitions that they have in WHAT WG
22:41:32 <MarkS> ...see clearRect
22:42:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> Adding a new region and calling clearRect() are the two ways this clearing algorithm can be invoked. The hit region list itself is also reset when the rendering context is reset, e.g. when a CanvasRenderingContext2D object is bound to or unbound from a canvas, or when the dimensions of the bitmap are changed.
22:44:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> A CanvasRenderingContext2D object has a scratch bitmap and can be bound to an output bitmap. These are initialized when the object is created, and can be subsequently adjusted when the rendering context is bound or unbound. In some cases, these bitmaps are the same underlying bitmap. In general, the scratch bitmap is what scripts interact with, and the output bitmap is what is being displayed. These bitmaps always have the same dimensions.
22:45:17 <MarkS> RC: This is for canvas workers I think.  I don't think anyone has implemented this.
22:45:41 <MarkS> ...i don't think that applies to us
22:46:03 <MarkS> JM: Instead of saying scratch bitmap it says canvas element in our nightly spec.  We're not supporting workers yet
22:46:38 <MarkS> RC: we should not refer to scratch bitmap.  there are other proposals out there that people are liking better.
22:47:09 <MarkS> RS: So what are we doing with clearRect?
22:48:40 <MarkS> JM: Under clearREct in the nightly, it covers this.  step 3.  it will clear any regions encompassed in it
22:49:29 <MarkS> RC: Maybe if you add a new hit region that encompasses the other hit regions.
22:50:22 <MarkS> MS: I think we need to add text that clarifies that the new region has to totally encompass the hit region that would be cleared.
22:50:42 <MarkS> RC: The last one you draw is the one that gets hit.
22:51:11 <MarkS> ...how do you know if a path covers another path.
22:52:40 <MarkS> ...it would be very hard to determine if one path totally encompasses another.
22:54:26 <MarkS> RS: it happens automatically, but it doesn't do garbage cleanup.
22:54:47 <MarkS> RC: problem comes when you add a new one over the old and then remove the new one, the old would still be there and it shouldn't
22:55:11 <MarkS> ...i really don't think it *should* be removed.  i think we should talk to Ian about this.
22:55:27 <MarkS> ...it seems reasonable that an author would expect the previous region to still be there.
22:56:32 <MarkS> zakim, agenda?
22:56:32 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
22:56:33 <Zakim> 1. Summary of Canvas discussion at A11y TF Meeting [from MarkS]
22:56:33 <Zakim> 2. Review proposed draft for Hit Regions L1 [from MarkS]
22:56:33 <Zakim> 3. Possible Coordination meeting at [from http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda HTML WG F2F April 8-9 via MarkS]
22:56:33 <Zakim> 4. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
22:56:47 <MarkS> RS: There is another mention of fillRule in step 3
22:56:52 <MarkS> ...do we want to remove that
22:57:18 <MarkS> RC: yes
22:57:52 <MarkS> RS: Another mention of scratch bitmap.
22:58:02 <MarkS> JM: Does it translate to the canvas element here as it did before?
22:58:16 <MarkS> ...lets assume that change will be global
22:59:33 <MarkS> MS: Jay, do you have enough here to get Hit Regions back into Level 1
23:00:18 <MarkS> JM: I think with the notes here I can get that done.
23:00:33 <Zakim> -cabanier
23:00:36 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
23:00:37 <Zakim> -MarkS
23:00:37 <Zakim> -Jatinder_Mann
23:00:38 <Zakim> -??P1
23:17:13 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
23:17:14 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended
23:17:14 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.319.aaaa, MarkS, cabanier, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, jaymunro, Jatinder_Mann
23:25:00 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
23:25:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS