14:04:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:04:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-dpub-irc
14:04:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:04:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:04:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:04:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 56 minutes
14:04:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:04:49 <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2014
14:05:01 <ivan> karen, you can dial in now
14:05:06 <ivan> oops, wrong channel
14:28:57 <dauwhe__> dauwhe__ has joined #dpub
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14:56:24 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
14:56:29 <mgylling> mgylling has changed the topic to: Code: 3782
14:56:30 <Zakim> + +1.646.336.aaaa
14:57:11 <Julie__BISG> Julie__BISG has joined #dpub
14:57:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:57:34 <Zakim> +??P10
14:57:37 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
14:57:48 <Zakim> + +1.212.364.aabb
14:57:59 <mgylling> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:58:00 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
14:58:06 <Vlad> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:58:06 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
14:58:09 <mgylling> Zakim, at least I hope so
14:58:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'at least I hope so', mgylling
14:58:34 <Zakim> + +1.917.207.aacc
14:58:44 <dauwhe__> Zakim, aacc is dauwhe
14:58:44 <Zakim> +dauwhe; got it
14:58:59 <Zakim> +Tzviya
14:59:21 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
15:00:01 <Zakim> +Stearns
15:00:02 <Zakim> +??P24
15:00:21 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P24 is me
15:00:21 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
15:00:24 <liza> liza has joined #dpub
15:00:51 <tzviya> scribe: tzviya
15:00:59 <Zakim> + +1.505.665.aadd
15:01:10 <benjaminsko> benjaminsko has joined #dpub
15:01:11 <azaroth> azaroth has joined #DPUB
15:01:35 <Zakim> + +1.617.453.aaee
15:01:45 <liza> zakim, aaee is me
15:01:45 <Zakim> +liza; got it
15:01:47 <Zakim> + +1.734.904.aaff
15:01:53 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
15:01:58 <azaroth> zakim, who is here
15:02:00 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:02:00 <Zakim> azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'
15:02:03 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
15:02:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.646.336.aaaa, Vlad, mgylling, +1.212.364.aabb, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, +1.505.665.aadd, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan
15:02:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot, liam
15:02:11 <azaroth> zakim, aadd is me
15:02:11 <Zakim> +azaroth; got it
15:02:13 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:02:29 <Zakim> +Bert
15:02:32 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:02:39 <dauwhe__> Zakim, aabb is philm
15:02:39 <Zakim> +philm; got it
15:02:48 <Zakim> + +1.303.475.aagg
15:02:49 <fjh> fjh has joined #dpub
15:03:19 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is Julie__BISG
15:03:19 <Zakim> +Julie__BISG; got it
15:03:21 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
15:03:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Julie__BISG, Vlad, mgylling, philm, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, azaroth, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan, [GVoice], Bert, +1.303.475.aagg
15:03:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see fjh, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot,
15:03:25 <Zakim> ... liam
15:03:25 <fjh> Regrets: Frederick_Hirsch
15:03:38 <ivan> zakim, aagg is Casey
15:03:38 <Zakim> +Casey; got it
15:03:53 <ivan> zakim, aaff is Bill_Kasdorf
15:03:53 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
15:03:58 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:03:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Julie__BISG, Vlad, mgylling, philm, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, azaroth, liza, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, [GVoice], Bert, Casey
15:03:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see fjh, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot,
15:04:01 <Zakim> ... liam
15:04:29 <Zakim> +??P16
15:04:31 <tzviya> markus: minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-03-03.html
15:04:39 <tzviya> approved
15:04:49 <karen> karen has joined #dpub
15:05:05 <tm> tm has joined #dpub
15:05:15 <tzviya> markus: ask generally about annotations publication status?
15:05:18 <Zakim> + +1.609.216.aahh
15:05:37 <tzviya> ivan: it should publish on thursday, would be good if one of chairs bloged about it
15:05:45 <tzviya> markus: yes, we will
15:06:12 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
15:06:18 <Zakim> + +33.1.43.92.aaii
15:06:28 <ivan> zakim, aaii is Luc
15:06:28 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
15:06:55 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
15:06:57 <tzviya> Dauwhe: can write about latinreq as well
15:07:58 <mgylling> zakim, aahh is Laura Fowler
15:07:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aahh is Laura Fowler', mgylling
15:08:09 <Luc> Luc has joined #dpub
15:08:12 <ivan> zakim, aahh is laura
15:08:12 <Zakim> +laura; got it
15:08:40 <Zakim> +duga
15:08:46 <dauwhe__> q+
15:08:47 <tzviya> markus: potential for F2F in California in Oct 27 - 31
15:09:23 <tzviya> ...it will not be the whole week, just beginning or end of week
15:09:41 <tzviya> ...we must officially register with W3C whether we want to schedule time at TPAC
15:10:21 <tzviya> Thierry: perhaps open poll whether this is mon/tue or Thu/Fri
15:10:33 <tzviya> Action: Thierry open poll
15:10:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-17 - Open poll [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-03-17].
15:10:45 <dauwhe__> q-
15:11:02 <tzviya> markus: annotation and latinreq moving to first draft and in good state
15:11:24 <tzviya> ...we missed out on talking about Math and STEM with Jean
15:11:43 <tzviya> ...Jean has had to leave the group at least temporarily
15:11:49 <karen> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
15:11:56 <tzviya> ...so, the group is without a lead for now
15:12:25 <tzviya> ...We are now looking at the groups to see how we can move forward remaining TFs
15:12:36 <tzviya> ...There are 2 problems with our groups
15:12:44 <tzviya> ...not enough resources (yet)
15:13:11 <tzviya> ...and the organization of TFs might not be very good
15:13:29 <tzviya> ...what can we do to make sure we get moving with other groups?
15:14:03 <tzviya> ...suggestion is to look at entries and assess how to move things forward
15:14:04 <mgylling> q?
15:14:30 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces list of task forces
15:14:58 <tzviya> ...the opportunity we have to get digital pub working with OWP is a great one
15:15:10 <tzviya> ...we owe it to ourselves and the community
15:15:11 <karen> q+
15:15:19 <mgylling> ack karen
15:15:24 <dauwhe__> q+
15:16:01 <tzviya> karen: ivan and i have been working with many organizations and publishers. we are starting to see some renewed interest from software service providers
15:16:18 <tzviya> ...not as much from trade publishers
15:16:28 <tzviya> ...the education market wants to do more
15:16:51 <tzviya> ...if anyone else on call has any resources for Karen to reach out to, please let her know
15:17:18 <tzviya> ...if there is anyone non-tech to reach out to (tech gets it), then let karen know
15:18:00 <mgylling> ack dauwhe
15:18:47 <tzviya> dave: going back to organization of TFs - it might be helpful to have fewer, broader TFs
15:18:53 <liza> +1
15:19:31 <tzviya> ...one set of principles revolves around appearance (layout and DOM), another revolves around communicating with system
15:20:42 <tzviya> liza: we set ourselves up to fail with topics like "metadata" which is too big. we might want to focus on specific aspects of metadata
15:21:05 <tzviya> ...we might want to focus on requests from publishers (what they want to do now in publications)
15:21:29 <tzviya> ...and also focus on requests from reading systems (what they want to do in reading systems dev)
15:22:14 <tzviya> markus: broader categories such as appearance, and then others are sub-categories
15:22:43 <tzviya> ...but this might be counter productive, because we don't have a clear missive
15:23:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:23:50 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:24:02 <tzviya> liza: categorizing use cases makes sense, especially if fall into buckets that make sense to W3C world (presentation, markup, etc)
15:24:05 <Zakim> +madi
15:24:19 <madi> madi has joined #dpub
15:25:18 <Luc> q+
15:25:51 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: liza's suggestion of just focusing on what there is demand for from OWP might help guide discussion, otherwise becomes unweildy
15:25:56 <mgylling> ack Luc
15:27:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:27:42 <tzviya> Luc: point of view of publishers is good, but my global feeling is that we need help from W3C for wider viewpoint, otherwise this is not different from IDPF
15:27:55 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:27:56 <azaroth> q+
15:27:59 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:29:26 <ivan> q+
15:29:33 <mgylling> ack azaroth
15:29:40 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: How do we get the right people on these groups? There has been a reluctance for organizations to join W3C/commit time, but we can consult with them when we have drafts
15:29:59 <tzviya> azaroth: I don't think this is about differentiating from IDPF
15:30:45 <tzviya> ...publishing notes first as drafts is a good way to bring in feedback. Not as daunting as joining a committee
15:31:05 <mgylling> ack ivan
15:31:12 <tzviya> markus: yes, good point. But, how do we get to drafts?
15:31:42 <tzviya> ivan: i don't see any problem with reaching out to others outside of W3C for feedback
15:32:10 <tzviya> ...We are missing a clear goal for what each TF intends to do
15:32:39 <tzviya> +1
15:33:26 <tzviya> Ivan: We now have a goal for behavioral UI, so it is likely that we will end up with something specific
15:33:43 <tzviya> ...for other TFs, we should formalize goals
15:35:19 <tzviya> ...example - it could be a goal of a11y TF to review existing documentation and determine if they are fully compliant and what changes need to be made
15:35:29 <tzviya> markus: these should be short-term goals?
15:35:40 <tzviya> ivan: we need to define what we should produce
15:35:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:35:57 <tzviya> markus: i've gleaned 2 things
15:36:36 <tzviya> ...1st is a partial reorg of TFs, some stand by themselves, but others may need to be combined
15:37:31 <tzviya> ...2nd is to produce and document a short-term focus and goals
15:38:11 <tzviya> Gerardo: thinking about goals for a11y short-term goals
15:38:48 <tzviya> ...not sure if reviewing documentation would be a fruitful goal for this TF based on history with browsers
15:38:58 <tzviya> markus: there may be other goals
15:39:14 <tzviya> ...what are we delivering next?
15:40:06 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: we can produce short-term goals for metadata, will talk to madi
15:40:12 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:41:11 <tzviya> ...this group talks about book publishing exclusively, no magazines, no journals. are we in position to get info from other fields?
15:41:40 <tzviya> markus: we can only work with what we have.
15:42:10 <tzviya> ...Regarding metadata, we had a concrete goal to describe current problems of publishers
15:42:28 <tzviya> ...until we have that, I would hesitate to go further
15:42:41 <Zakim> -duga
15:43:06 <ivan> q+
15:43:46 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: none of the people that I would talk to about publishers are in this group
15:44:12 <tzviya> markus: bring this list of people to W3C staff and start there
15:45:25 <tzviya> q+
15:45:50 <madi> Graham Bell is the Exec. Director of EDitEUR
15:46:01 <Luc> I confirm
15:46:02 <tzviya> q-
15:47:19 <tzviya> Ivan: it is perfectly acceptable to gather info from these people and then document within the group
15:47:50 <tzviya> markus: metadata goal = gathering issues from within publishing of what cannot be done today
15:48:11 <ivan> ack ivan
15:48:17 <karen> ack Julie
15:48:43 <tzviya> Julie_BISG: a lot of TFs overlap with BISG committee work, so we can take work back to those committees
15:49:20 <tzviya> ...we can even include an agenda item to check in on W3C TF
15:50:06 <tzviya> markus: BISG is a bona fide member of W3C member, so can assign members to W3C in interim
15:50:59 <liza> Okey-doke
15:51:06 <tzviya> action: markus, liza, tzviya produce new TF for content-related issues
15:51:06 <trackbot> Error finding 'markus,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
15:51:35 <azaroth> Including latinreq and annotation?
15:51:40 <tzviya> action: all TF leads formulate goals of TF - keep it short
15:51:40 <trackbot> Error finding 'all'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
15:51:58 <azaroth> okay :)
15:52:11 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
15:53:54 <tzviya> markus: ivan, please create additional column "current goal" on wiki
15:54:51 <tzviya> markus: page DOM is officially dormant because we are still looking for someone to take it on
15:55:05 <tzviya> ...this could extend to APIs and scripting
15:55:18 <tzviya> ...we will follow up on goals next week
15:55:46 <mgylling> q?
15:56:04 <Zakim> -Casey
15:56:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:56:22 <mgylling> ack Bill
15:56:48 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: still focusing on metadata on 17 Mar?
15:57:18 <tzviya> markus: yes, but it will be about 10 minutes
15:58:03 <tzviya> markus: we will rename bahavioral UI this week
15:59:14 <Zakim> -liza
15:59:15 <Zakim> -madi
15:59:15 <Zakim> -mgylling
15:59:16 <Zakim> -Julie__BISG
15:59:16 <Zakim> -philm
15:59:17 <Zakim> -azaroth
15:59:17 <Zakim> -[GVoice]
15:59:18 <Zakim> -Luc
15:59:18 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
15:59:19 <Zakim> -Tzviya
15:59:19 <Zakim> -laura
15:59:19 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
15:59:19 <Zakim> -dauwhe
15:59:21 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:59:21 <Zakim> -Vlad
15:59:24 <Zakim> -Stearns
15:59:26 <Zakim> -gcapiel
15:59:28 <Zakim> -Bert
16:02:32 <tm> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-dpub-minutes.html tm
16:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ??P16, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
16:05:03 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
16:05:03 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.646.336.aaaa, +1.212.364.aabb, mgylling, Vlad, +1.917.207.aacc, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, +1.505.665.aadd, +1.617.453.aaee, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan,
16:05:04 <Zakim> ... azaroth, [GVoice], Bert, philm, +1.303.475.aagg, Julie__BISG, Casey, Bill_Kasdorf, +1.609.216.aahh, Karen_Myers, +33.1.43.92.aaii, Luc, laura, duga, madi
16:10:04 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
16:38:16 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
16:58:05 <dauwhe__> if you're interested in footnote reference marks: http://www.typography.com/blog/house-of-flying-reference-marks
17:34:19 <dauwhe__> Looks like CSS almost always meets Monday-Tuesday (and often on Sunday) during TPAC (this was true in 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, and 2009).
17:35:54 <dauwhe_> dauwhe_ has joined #dpub
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