08:54:12 RRSAgent has joined #lgd 08:54:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/06-lgd-irc 08:54:28 PhilA has changed the topic to: Linking Geospatial Data Day 2 08:54:40 Meeting: Linking Geospatial Data Day 2 08:54:45 Chair; PhilA 08:54:49 Chair: PhilA 09:04:59 peterisb has joined #lgd 09:07:20 Stuart has joined #lgd 09:07:31 giusepperizzo has joined #lgd 09:08:34 Alex_Coley has joined #LGD 09:09:16 Scribe: Alex_Coley 09:09:21 jtandy has joined #lgd 09:10:10 Stuart1 has joined #lgd 09:14:24 the first session today is: A Different Set of Problems chaired by Ed Parsons 09:15:36 Zhenning Shangguan - fromPitney Bowes has not been able to attend so we have a little longer for the other presenters and for discussions 09:16:24 jtandy has joined #lgd 09:16:48 raphael has joined #lgd 09:16:49 pezholio has joined #lgd 09:17:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/06-lgd-minutes.html raphael 09:17:41 Meeting: W3C Linking Geospatial Data Workshop Day 2 09:17:48 Ed Parsons introducing the session 09:17:51 Chair: Phil Archer 09:17:54 icm has joined #lgd 09:17:55 PeterRushforth has joined #lgd 09:18:11 Ed Parsons: looking a little more at the applications angle 09:18:29 Zhenning Shangguan - from Pitney Bowes has not been able to attend so we have a little longer for the other presenters and importantly more for discussions 09:18:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/06-lgd-minutes.html raphael 09:19:03 first up: Linked Geospatial Data, and the BBC, Chris Henden 09:19:25 Chris Hendon: thought we'd fixed mapping in 2005 09:20:24 Introducing the ways that maps were presented on the website 09:20:48 Chris Hendon: except we hadn't fixed it all... 09:21:18 Chris Hendon: moved out just from BBC Wales to cover all the BBC 09:21:48 Not just Wales, not just GB (slight joke at OS) all of UK and world wide interest 09:22:07 ocorcho has joined #lgd 09:22:33 Location built into news - alb location an important aspect - even if the public don't know it is there or available 09:23:09 Location used across the BBC Website estate to help localise the site for users 09:23:18 lindavandenbrink has joined #lgd 09:23:56 A good Vocab is key - 37 Languages, place names need to be right and display as a UK audience would expect 09:24:34 need to be able to express shapes to a thing theta is being described - to attach content 09:25:07 Movign to stable relationships 09:25:20 AndreaPerego has joined #lgd 09:25:28 now up Paul Rissen from the BBC 09:25:45 Paul Rissen: journalists don't like to do more than they have to 09:25:51 RRSAgent, draft minutes 09:25:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/06-lgd-minutes.html PhilA 09:25:54 tagging happens but try to limit 09:26:37 Predicate Analysis example... 09:26:53 Journalists are very used to tagging in traditional sense 09:27:20 not overly useful... investigating the use of predicates to make the user experience better 09:27:50 Ceremonial vs Admin counties - important but most people don't care or know 09:28:17 BBC needs to be accurate for elections but also need to present in a familiar way 09:28:28 PhilA: fwiw I have no idea what a ceremonial county is 09:28:42 boricles has joined #lgd 09:29:03 s/Movign/Moving/ 09:29:13 the BBC has had TV and Radio regions etc... does not mean much to audience 09:30:09 Chris Hendon: the future [of the BBC] 2022 strategy - key is user 09:30:25 Ed Parsons - highlighting questions will be at the end 09:30:57 pauljcripps has joined #lgd 09:31:00 Next a double act from the BGS - British Geological Survey 09:31:01 giusepperizzo has joined #lgd 09:31:07 Topic: Delivery and querying of 3D spatial models, John Laxton, 09:31:19 paper http://www.w3.org/2014/03/lgd/papers/lgd14_submission_11 09:31:21 John Laxton - Delivery and querying 3d 09:31:29 slides http://www.w3.org/2014/03/lgd/EarthServer 09:31:55 Earth Server - a FP7 project using coverage data over the web 09:32:53 GeoSciML - GML based data transfer standard for exchange of digital geoscientific data. conceptual model 09:32:56 LarsG has joined #lgd 09:33:19 What are BGS trying to do? Some use cases being highlighted: 09:33:51 1. to deliver geological 3d models over web - accessible to users both expert and not 09:34:05 need to be explicit 09:34:10 hugh has joined #lgd 09:34:31 2. to enable users to query the models 09:34:57 using Earth Server to help deliver this with partners 09:35:53 xWCPS being developed - xQuery enabled WCPS (web Coverage Processign Service) 09:36:17 s/Processign/Processing 09:36:20 WCPS: Web Coverage Processing Service 09:36:55 Used GeoSciML to describe bounding geological units in Glasgow 3d 09:37:25 looking if this (overall) is the best approach 09:37:57 looking now at how complex the querying can be and develop user-friendly interface 09:38:35 AndyS has joined #lgd 09:38:48 Next up: Tim Duffy (BGS) more on the INSPIRE side for BGS 09:39:16 in particular experiences with WFS2.0 services 09:39:37 Tim Duffy: feels already linkable data 09:40:57 WFS = Web Feature Service and have consistently found that implementation for real working SDIs is not great 09:41:15 often the optional bits in the standards are needed in the software to make it work 09:41:33 been working with Open Source and other software at BGS. 09:42:21 jtandy has joined #lgd 09:42:21 A lot of software doesn't meet all the needs (yet) 09:42:51 Need good testing facilities to test against OGC standards - these are coming 09:43:21 Complexity of Querying - this has been hard with rich and complex data 09:43:42 recognising need more dictionaries 09:44:26 Geology has heirachical dictionaries 09:45:04 Some aspects are their but not yet the tools to express or provide to users 09:45:33 Have had to use sub-optimal approaches such as altering schema 09:45:50 HadleyBeeman has joined #lgd 09:46:01 some query functions are VERY constrained or not well supported 09:46:47 HadleyBeeman1 has joined #lgd 09:47:04 Tim Duffy: recognising a disjoint generic requirements and complex information expression (information rich data) 09:47:26 This is common across Environmental Data - i.e. INSPIRE 09:48:04 move from URNs to URIs in INSPIRE is "great". Software to make this usable is behind 09:48:21 ajtucker has joined #lgd 09:48:32 *noting that there are some aspects in place* 09:48:40 HadleyBeeman2 has joined #lgd 09:48:43 Round of applause 09:49:23 Panel on stage with additions of: Peter Rushfort and Tomaž Žagar 09:50:25 Tomaž agar: from Slovenia (Stats Office) - learning about some aspects of Linked Data but linking Stats to Location 09:50:57 jtandy has joined #lgd 09:51:35 Publishing using WFS services but looking at other approaches 09:52:26 Peter Rushfort from GeoGratis ( Natural Resources Canada’s web portal) 09:52:51 developed an geospatial api to provide access 09:53:04 ATOM enhanced with linkable data. 09:53:18 The GeoGratis API uses a hypermedia approach to delivery of linked geospatial data 09:53:53 Each resource is offered in multiple formats either via standard content negotiation or via typed links to API query resources - have developed tools that are available on the web 09:54:38 Ed Parsons: a question to all... you have complex data but you have common requirements.... how happy are you with your technology choices (1-10)? 09:54:57 Peter Rushford [6] 09:55:20 Tomaž [8] some improving 09:56:17 John Laxton feedback from community is mixed, first steps [??? did i miss a number???] 09:56:43 Paul [7] 09:57:06 Chris Hendon [6] some ahhs 09:57:07 Bart has joined #lgd 09:57:24 Chris highlighted there are internal BBC issues that are not all the tools 09:58:16 getting what the BBC has across all uses and scale is not there yet 09:59:40 Tim Duffy - part the issue is the standards and tools keeping up with the standards. now catching up, over the next year performance will improve (open source) commercial software even slower. Now [7] 10:00:29 Questions.... 10:01:47 Peter Parslow: Publishing data to look at vs Processing. Persistent IDs are useful for both. How much of the technology stack (that is focused now on the publishing to look at) is also usable for distributed processing? 10:02:18 John Laxton: recognising the issue. Trying to unpick the issues a bit at a time 10:02:31 peterisb has joined #lgd 10:02:41 deliver the data service but also better descriptions of the data on top 10:03:09 individually not necessarily useful - together they will be. 10:04:21 Peter Rushford: Kiss principle is the basis of the web. Keeping things simple (i.e. hide the complexity) 10:05:27 Chris Hendon: Where meaning is worked out - slightly limited by the tools. Context is important and not all the tools are there to help users 10:06:15 Question - Jeremy Tandy: site and conformance testing - agreed with Tim for OGC. No such approaches or tools for Linked Data yet.... thoughts? 10:06:46 Q: it's crucial that we have tools to work with the data, but how might we apply conformance testing for server implementations when there is no agreed or endorsed practice, let alone standard method ... 10:07:03 Tim Duffy: Love or Loath standards - they are there... if keep inventing new ways there could be issues. 10:09:11 Phil Archer: in semantic web world.. there are w3c test suites for many of the standards. As part of the process it is key before a standard can be a standard. Deliberately a high bar. 10:09:56 ...there are works of fiction out there but they do try very hard 10:11:06 Andy Seabourne: victim of the W3c process. the w3c test are there before the standard is a standard. 10:11:43 AndyS: what are the interactions in the development of the standards (and open source software)? 10:11:46 s/Seabourne/Seaborne 10:12:36 Tim Duffy: change requests are fed back in OGC process. Subtle difference between reference tests and tests with real data 10:13:51 Bart (OGC): Implimentation of standards at the OGC and the parallel Interoperability Programme http://www.opengeospatial.org/ogc/programs/ip to try and mature standards 10:14:00 One final question: 10:14:49 We have this data... how do you share it? e.g. familiar with WFS 10:15:13 AdamL has joined #lgd 10:15:36 Tomaž agar: some raster data - note there yet. for some stats data it is less of an issue 10:16:05 Out of time: Applause 10:16:21 handing over to Stuart Harrison 10:16:33 Bill Roberts chairing this session 10:16:39 "Putting the data to work" 10:16:51 MichaelLutz has joined #lgd 10:16:54 Talking about tooling 10:17:10 hugh has joined #lgd 10:17:11 Three 10 minutes talks, followed by panel 10:17:18 John Goodwin from OS first up 10:18:13 Talking about research project done with University of Southampton 10:18:21 Project called RAGLD 10:18:33 We haven't have a dubious acronym for a while :) 10:18:50 18 month project 10:19:00 Allowing 'the great unwashed' to access linked data 10:19:14 Not that precious about linked data, more about open data 10:19:41 Talking about sameAs service. Linked Data is not very linked. 10:20:04 Went round the web of data, scraped the sameAs links 10:20:20 You can put in a URI and find equivalent URIS 10:20:25 URIs 10:20:52 http://sameas.org/ 10:21:08 Can we do this more generically? 10:21:23 http://apps.seme4.com/see-uk/ 10:21:35 Clikc on a ward, and see data about that area 10:21:45 Difficult to put together 10:21:58 You need a framework to make building this sort of thing easier 10:22:03 s/Clikc/Click/ 10:22:11 This is where RAGLD comes in 10:22:23 A whole suite of tools 10:22:51 Relationship management, spacial query services, as well as reconciliation services 10:23:14 People don't always want to get their hands dirty with SPARQL 10:23:32 Loaded wards into the service, and exposed some APIs 10:24:09 Loaded dummy data into a RAGLD service 10:24:47 Ingested and visualised a journey and did geospatial analysis on it 10:24:53 Added a buffer on a route 10:25:20 And then loaded in all the B&Bs in the buffer 10:25:57 Piping URIs to URIs, can end up with very complex queries easily 10:26:01 SimonEv has joined #lgd 10:26:20 John has his family tree as linked data 10:26:42 A colleague used RAGLD to build an application using RAGLD tools 10:26:59 (Didn't have much experience with linked data) 10:27:07 rhwarren has joined #lgd 10:27:43 Simple visualisation widget, also pulls in data from the web 10:28:25 Andrew Kevis from University of Madrid 10:28:28 next up 10:28:53 (May have misheard the name) 10:29:10 Alejandro Llaves 10:29:38 Talking about Map4RDF-ios 10:29:42 jtandy has joined #lgd 10:29:54 Allows visualising and browning linked geo data 10:30:10 Saw there was an increase in linked geospatial data 10:30:21 Not many tools out there 10:30:44 Developed in parallel with a web-based tool 10:31:32 Allows user to test their data, but also bring the linked data to non-ld people 10:31:45 Supports mobile devices running iOS 10:31:55 ocorcho has joined #lgd 10:31:56 Multiple map services (OSM, Google etc) 10:32:16 Allows visualisation of statistical data published using DataCube 10:32:34 Clustering also supported 10:32:41 JohnGoodwin has joined #lgd 10:32:42 Highly customisable 10:33:13 However, it only supports non-authenticated SPARQL endpoints 10:33:17 And only one at a time 10:33:44 Running a short video demo 10:34:34 scribenick: pezholio 10:34:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Xq2e_IC7Y 10:35:33 Showing the DataCube functionality 10:35:48 Loading neighbourhood info 10:37:15 Offers an intuitive GUI to visualise LGD 10:37:25 Faster than the web-based version 10:37:36 Easy analysis 10:37:42 jtandy has joined #lgd 10:37:59 Now in the app store! 10:38:14 Round of applause for getting through Apple's approval process! 10:38:38 Future work 10:38:47 Save and share snapshots 10:38:50 Realtime data 10:39:25 Developing a module to feed back suggestions to data owners 10:40:24 Martin Hammitzsch next up 10:41:09 Talking about an Android app now! 10:41:26 HadleyBeeman has joined #lgd 10:41:49 Looking for advice and inspiration 10:42:11 Shows information about Geohazards 10:42:18 Such as volcanoes et 10:42:19 c 10:42:34 Details, reporting 10:42:42 Lots of configuration options 10:42:46 Useful for disaster tourism! 10:42:56 Define data sources and filters 10:43:31 Involved in a project involved in early warning crisis management 10:43:46 Trying to increase attractiveness to users 10:44:03 They may be potential eyewitnesses in the future 10:44:08 ManoMarks has joined #lgd 10:44:13 App is freely available in the Play Store 10:44:26 Various different data sources on geohazards 10:44:41 Pull only, then check what's new 10:44:55 Push isn't officially offered, unless you ask 10:45:24 Variety of formats - HTML, RSS (if you're lucky), so REST API. 10:45:35 Not many agencies know much about linked datas 10:45:43 Documentation can be poor 10:46:20 Showing an example of an RSS feed from the British Geological Survey 10:46:47 EMSC have RSS with custom namespaces 10:47:14 GDACS interesting as they have lots of resources and link, but only internal 10:47:37 GNS give encoded KML in RSS 10:47:37 whoopie has joined #lgd 10:47:51 Completely different formats 10:47:57 whoopie has left #lgd 10:48:03 Sometimes no location information at all 10:48:19 USGS give volcano information 10:49:08 NOAA have GeoRSS, but radius is badly expressed 10:49:30 Ushahidi being used in an international exercise 10:49:45 Has a REST API to feed in data, and get data out 10:49:54 It is a bit weak 10:50:01 So had to access the data directly 10:50:17 A lot of room for improvement 10:50:28 But there are opportunities 10:50:47 ESRI and Google Crisis response also have APIs 10:51:18 Is there a shift in front of us? 10:51:36 Geohazards affect us all 10:51:48 Standards have to be anchored in the community 10:52:18 Speakers coming back to the stage for the panel session 10:52:30 Andy Seabourne and ??? coming back 10:52:36 Sorry, missed second name 10:52:51 Herbert Schentz 10:53:12 Alex_Coley_ has joined #lgd 10:53:16 RRSAgent, draft minutes 10:53:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/06-lgd-minutes.html PhilA 10:53:24 Herbert is a member of the Environment Agency of Austria 10:53:35 Scientists collecting heterogeneous data 10:53:47 Integrating the data with LD technologies 10:53:57 Happy with the results, but had problems 10:54:02 SPARQL is slow 10:54:23 Missed a lot of applications for people not familiar with SPARQL, but want simple stats and maps 10:54:32 Andy from Epimorphics 10:54:33 peterisb has joined #lgd 10:54:39 But representing Apache 10:55:05 Introducing spatial data into Apache Jena 10:55:27 Audience is web developers who aren't familiar with geospatial data - big scary stuff! 10:55:38 Looking for something simple 10:56:18 Two constraints: Resourcing - had a student for three months 10:56:49 Licensing of software: Wanted to repackage and give it away 10:56:57 Wasn't a lot to build on 10:57:01 Used Lucene spatial 10:57:22 Had some resource from one of the Lucene spatial devs 10:57:40 Wanted a relatively simple index pattern 10:57:46 hugh has joined #lgd 10:58:06 Missed questioner's name 10:58:24 Why not use Android? 10:58:34 No funding 10:58:46 John's T-Shirt is game of Life themed today! 10:59:17 Question for Martin: is he aware of the Geo super sites? 10:59:34 They have selected a number of sites where they collect more data 10:59:57 Martin: Looking into it right now, but not in contact with the team 11:00:00 Some problems 11:00:18 Push would be really interesting. Would help with early warning 11:00:39 Accessing data directly is very important, but there may be some time lag 11:01:01 Stuart Williams: Question for John - How available is the RAGLD tool? 11:01:13 IP is owned by OS, Semaphone and UoS 11:01:23 Not sure what to do with it yet 11:01:24 s/semaphone/seme4 11:01:50 Quesiton for Alejandro and Martin 11:02:02 Which was the easiest linked data geometry to work with? 11:02:38 John: Built RAGLD to work with shape files and RDF 11:02:44 Used WKT 11:02:56 As well as W3G geo lat/lng 11:03:10 Alejandro goes for GeoSPARQL as he likes the model 11:03:20 Not supporting GeoJSON yet 11:03:29 But depends on the use case 11:03:50 John says they use GeoJSON on the client side 11:04:19 Andy - ordering of lat and long in W3C standards 11:05:24 Herbert Schentz: Which format is nice for the user, and what format has performance benefits? 11:05:45 Question from MET office 11:06:17 The target for tsunami warning messages is 2 seconds, but a lot of warnings aren't on the web because safety critical 11:06:41 Question for Herbert and Andy: We've heard that SPARQL is slow, but it can be optimised 11:07:15 Who's fault is it? The query writer, or the application developer 11:07:33 Herbert likes GeoSPARQL, but has great concerns over the performance 11:07:58 Andy can't speak for GeoSPARQL, but knows people who have worked on it 11:08:18 There is a trade off, but if you tell the system what your data looks like, it can be quicker 11:09:14 Optimising for data and geo queries is quite a difficult job 11:09:34 Missed question from Bill 11:10:15 John: With RAGLD, they wanted to provide RESTful layers on top of SPARQL queries - hiding SPARQL 11:11:04 Alejandro: Putting a visualisation on top of SPARQL does the same - non linked data people don't like SPARQL 11:11:25 Saves you the burden of creating your own querie 11:11:26 s 11:12:10 Andy: Mainly looking at the application writer, where there is some geospatail data, but other non-geo data 11:12:43 Martin: about putting the data to work. People generally are not interested in the technology, they want to see what's possilbe 11:12:56 s/possilbe/possible 11:13:27 Martin: SemWeb and SPARQL is scary - you have to demonstrate the advantages 11:14:05 Herbert: You have to cater for all audiences, shouldn't completely hide SPARQL endpoints. 11:15:19 Alejandro answering question as to why Linked Data is better than standard Geo 11:15:27 Linking is the definite benefit 11:15:50 Question on integrating spatial and statistical data - what's the best tool? 11:16:13 Where in the stack is the best way to do it? 11:16:51 Alejandro: Can visualise DataCube 11:17:11 Anything with a SPARQL endpoint can be integrated 11:17:25 Session over 11:17:31 Now, coffee! 11:18:45 AndyS has joined #lgd 11:19:33 RRSAgent, draft minutes 11:19:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/06-lgd-minutes.html PhilA 11:30:36 AndyS has joined #lgd 11:36:15 pezholio has joined #lgd 11:40:20 AndyS1 has joined #lgd 11:46:57 scribenick: AndyS 11:47:03 scribe: Andy Seaborne 11:47:07 Stuart has joined #lgd 11:47:16 icm has joined #lgd 11:49:00 HadleyBeeman has joined #lgd 11:49:28 subtopic: Implementation of the Fukushima radiation LOD framework // Isao Kojima, AIST (National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology) 11:49:30 ManoMarks has joined #lgd 11:49:56 TimDuffy has joined #lgd 11:50:08 rhwarren has joined #lgd 11:50:10 ocorcho has joined #lgd 11:50:35 pauljcripps has joined #lgd 11:51:18 Alex_Coley has joined #lgd 11:51:34 subtopic: Open Data-Logging for Bikes // Rich Boakes, University of Portsmouth 11:52:10 (reorder talks due to setup issues) 11:52:18 peterisb has joined #lgd 11:52:42 Rich: With Jacek Kopecky and Oliver Williams 11:52:57 ... Portsmouth is nearly an island 11:53:05 ... and very crowded 11:53:16 hugh has joined #lgd 11:53:45 ... sustainable transport ... now getting gridlock due to how busy things are becoming 11:54:13 ... bikes. Safety - actual and perceived 11:54:27 ... deaths in London up 18% 11:54:33 ... and 6 in 2 weeks 11:54:39 LarsG has joined #lgd 11:54:49 ... also perceived putting people off. 11:55:19 ... as scientists, there is no data 11:55:30 ... (video) 11:56:01 ... a close encounter of the bus kind 11:56:41 ... gather data and observe. Publish data and understand the reality. 11:56:50 ... and maintain data published 11:57:23 ... including the data gatherers : crowd, less good data vs curated data 11:58:13 ... bicycle with instruments : RasperberryPi+GPS+ultrasonic sensor 11:58:24 HadleyBeeman1 has joined #lgd 11:58:47 ... prototype 2 adds a panic button - records user experience 11:59:31 ... add a camera pointing backwards -- number plate recognition -- coordinate with history of the vehicle 11:59:43 ... better hardware - water proof 12:00:26 ... in the future - accelerometer ,... 12:01:02 ... example of heat map of a single bike journey. Proximity events. 12:01:17 ... aggregate by many journeys 12:01:20 Kostis has joined #lgd 12:01:49 ... effectively target council road funding - provides evidence of effect of spending 12:02:01 ... link to other data 12:02:27 ... http://picycle.io/ 12:02:39 ... license for software and for data to be decided 12:02:57 ... hardware hackday coming up 12:03:28 ... no funding currently ... looking for funding. 12:04:55 subtopic: Implementation of the Fukushima radiation LOD framework // Isao Kojima, AIST(National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology) 12:05:44 Isao Kojima: GeoSPARQL + ELDA 12:06:14 ... Monitor/construct/publish radiation database of the Fukushima area 12:06:56 ... role -- interface to database for integrating other open data 12:07:43 ... real time data (4K points, every 10 mins) 12:07:50 ... (more) 12:08:14 ... CSV to RDF for stats 12:08:27