IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-03-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:59:06 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:59:06 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:59:08 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:10 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
15:59:10 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 59 minutes ago
15:59:11 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:59:11 [trackbot]
Date: 06 March 2014
15:59:47 [MarkS]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:59:47 [MarkS]
Chair: Janina
15:59:47 [MarkS]
agenda+ Identify Scribe
15:59:47 [MarkS]
agenda+March Meeting Schedule & Coming Clock Adjustments
15:59:47 [MarkS]
agenda+HTML-WG & Web Apps F2F
15:59:49 [MarkS]
agenda+Reviving and Expanding Media Subteam
15:59:52 [MarkS]
agenda+PFWG Approves DOM4 LC
15:59:54 [MarkS]
agenda+Longdesc Update [See Below]
15:59:56 [MarkS]
agenda+Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps [See Below]
15:59:58 [MarkS]
agenda+Alt Guidance & Next Steps [See Below]
16:00:02 [MarkS]
agenda+ Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [see below]
16:00:04 [MarkS]
agenda+Other Business
16:00:06 [MarkS]
agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference
16:00:09 [MarkS]
agenda+ be done
16:00:35 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:00:35 [Zakim]
apparently WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended, janina
16:00:35 [MarkS]
zakim, this is 2119
16:00:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, paulc, MarkS, Joshue108, trackbot, janina, Zakim, hober, cabanier
16:00:36 [Zakim]
ok, MarkS; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
16:00:36 [Zakim]
16:01:05 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mark_Sadecki, ??P2, JF
16:01:17 [janina]
zakim, ??P2 is me
16:01:21 [LJWatson]
LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
16:01:21 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
16:01:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:01:43 [Zakim]
16:01:51 [Zakim]
16:01:52 [JF]
JF has joined #html-a11y
16:01:52 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:01:53 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
16:02:20 [Zakim]
16:02:26 [janina]
regrets: Adrian_Roselli
16:02:45 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
16:02:55 [MarkS]
regrets: Chaals
16:03:52 [MarkS]
zakim, [IP is Leonie
16:03:52 [Zakim]
+Leonie; got it
16:03:56 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 1
16:03:56 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from MarkS]
16:04:00 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 1
16:04:00 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
16:04:02 [Zakim]
I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:02 [Zakim]
2. March Meeting Schedule & Coming Clock Adjustments [from MarkS]
16:04:04 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
16:04:04 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "March Meeting Schedule & Coming Clock Adjustments" taken up [from MarkS]
16:04:37 [MarkS]
JS: Clocks are changing. This is when things get out of sync. Frequently confusion about when meetings are happening.
16:04:52 [MarkS]
...US goes to Summertime or daylight time on Sunday morning.
16:05:04 [MarkS]
...this meeting is pegged to Boston time so it will be an hour earlier for many
16:05:53 [MarkS]
...Wondering if there is consensus on holding this call during CSUN
16:06:08 [janina]
janina can
16:06:13 [JF]
not available
16:06:16 [MarkS]
16:06:17 [paulc]
I would be able to aprticipate in two weeks on Mar 20
16:06:33 [MarkS]
Likely not for MarkS
16:06:58 [LJWatson]
Will be at CSUN.
16:07:11 [paulc]
16:07:20 [MarkS]
JS: Will postpone until next week. Looks like we may not have a meeting on the 20th. This is not unusual since its such a big conference for this group.
16:07:23 [paulc]
ack paulc
16:07:23 [MarkS]
ack p
16:07:28 [janina]
ack p
16:08:10 [MarkS]
PC: I understand how important this conference is, but wonder if this would negatively impact progress on key projects, like longdesc
16:08:34 [MarkS]
JS: It might have some. Let's ask people to be mindful as we go through the agenda
16:08:41 [MarkS]
PC: may be a better question for next week.
16:08:50 [Zakim]
16:08:53 [MarkS]
JS: may be we need to prioritize
16:09:00 [MarkS]
zakim, next item
16:09:00 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "HTML-WG & Web Apps F2F" taken up [from MarkS]
16:09:23 [MarkS]
JS: Becoming more clear who can make it.
16:10:00 [MarkS]
...doesn't seem like critical mass for anything more than casual work. May be an opportunity to make progress on Canvas
16:10:35 [MarkS]
...there will be people from the TF present, and working on Canvas, but probably not a lot of opportunity to do much beyond that.
16:11:10 [MarkS]
PC: the chairs objective is to publish an Heartbeat coming out of the F2F with no bugs and no at risk features
16:11:28 [MarkS]
...Steve's work on ALT guidance may be problematic
16:12:04 [MarkS]
...I'd like to know from Steve if the bugs marked as fixed in 5.1 will end up in 5.0
16:12:59 [MarkS]
JS: would like to get a sense of where work goes from here
16:13:22 [MarkS]
...what the process should be and where we go when we get to that agenda item
16:13:49 [MarkS]
JF: I will know by end of this week, early next week if I can go to F2F
16:13:56 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
16:13:56 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Reviving and Expanding Media Subteam" taken up [from MarkS]
16:14:24 [MarkS]
JS: Trying to reactivate this activity. Old business to finish up and new business coming. T
16:14:52 [MarkS]
...There is a WBS survey out to get that started.
16:16:24 [MarkS]
MS: wondering if time slots were an issue for any TF members. May be able to expand the time slots available since Silvia has indicated she cannot participate on calls.
16:16:37 [MarkS]
JF: Opening up times earlier in the day makes sense
16:17:26 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
16:17:26 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "PFWG Approves DOM4 LC" taken up [from MarkS]
16:18:14 [MarkS]
JS: PF did review HTML WG DOM4 Last Call and found no accessibility issues. This is simply a DOM spec, not specifically for HTML
16:18:51 [MarkS]
...there was some concern regarding the removal of mutation events, but those are still in DOM4 so we are pleased.
16:19:17 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
16:19:17 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Longdesc Update" taken up [from See Below]
16:19:37 [JF]
scribe: JF
16:19:58 [JF]
MS: have been woring on finalizing exit criteria
16:20:10 [Zakim]
16:20:11 [JF]
good progress, but with some minor re-tooling
16:20:18 [JF]
'hope to have something to review next week
16:20:53 [JF]
JS: should time niecel with CSUN, as concensus call requires 1 week - may be able to do that during w/o CSUN
16:20:53 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
16:21:07 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
16:21:07 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps" taken up [from See Below]
16:21:12 [JF]
16:21:13 [SteveF]
SteveF has joined #html-a11y
16:21:45 [JF]
MS: Canvas update
16:22:13 [JF]
group reviewed spec this week, feature by feature, to identify Priority 1 and 2 issues
16:22:27 [JF]
next step is to refine draft
16:22:41 [JF]
hope to use that doc to work with implementors to prioitize those features
16:22:50 [JF]
goal to find compatable timeline with the spec
16:23:29 [JF]
PC: thought we would review the implementors to see what they will be doing what?
16:23:38 [JF]
has this changed?
16:24:05 [JF]
MS: Rick was on the last call - key implementor
16:24:17 [JF]
Google does not seem fussed over a level 1 or level 2 spec
16:24:28 [JF]
so see the level 1 spec as a roadmap
16:24:34 [richardschwerdtfeger]
16:24:39 [JF]
and hope he is open to implementing in a logical order
16:24:56 [JF]
starting with the easiest features first, and they are aligned with a11y as well
16:25:06 [JF]
JS: they are also in a logical sequence
16:25:22 [JF]
Dominic noted that they wanted it all in a "all-in" doc
16:25:35 [JF]
however what is emerging is what would be first steps anyway
16:25:53 [JF]
RS: trying to show - build on the larger spec without breaking things
16:26:01 [JF]
i.e. using dictionaries, etc.
16:26:17 [JF]
still think it would be a good idea to seek a meeting
16:26:20 [janina]
16:26:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ach richardschwerdtfeger
16:26:31 [janina]
ack r
16:26:32 [JF]
they are moving away from WHAT WG spec with our guidance, but they are not there yet
16:26:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ack richardschwerdtfeger
16:26:52 [JF]
PC: still have not seen an actual time-table for an editors draft
16:27:12 [JF]
revised canvas L1 which would go to last call - is there a timetable?
16:27:30 [JF]
MS: grabbed the latest HTML from the spec and then added our priorities to it
16:27:41 [JF]
it should be a copy and paste exercise
16:27:59 [JF]
need an approval from the sub-group on what was decided to keep and what was deferred
16:28:17 [JF]
JS: the logical read should stil not break things in the spec -should verify taht
16:28:18 [janina]
16:28:22 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
16:28:43 [MarkS]
JS: RE: Canvas and CSUN, I don't think CSUN Will impact Canvas progress
16:28:44 [JF]
JS: sounds like CSUN should not impact getting an editors draft together
16:28:56 [JF]
should be able to happen during next week
16:29:13 [JF]
scribe: MarcS
16:29:42 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
16:29:57 [MarkS]
PC: It's not obvious to me what the progression of steps for this is. Possible schedule:
16:30:22 [MarkS]
...Get a Draft of L1 LC ready, it then goes through the TF, then the HTML WG
16:30:55 [MarkS]
JS: What we should talk about is the common desire that we will have two implementations to meet CR requirements. That is when the discussion with dominic becomes very important.
16:31:10 [MarkS]
...the fallback is to look to webkit. looking for the right person to work with.
16:31:59 [MarkS]
PC: So SubTeam Editors Draft -> Tf -> HTML WG to LC
16:32:28 [janina]
16:33:03 [MarkS]
RS: Rik has contacts over there
16:33:04 [MarkS]
mediagallery for google glass github mediagallery.apk
16:33:15 [MarkS]
s/mediagallery for google glass github mediagallery.apk//
16:33:21 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
16:33:22 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Alt Guidance & Next Steps" taken up [from See Below]
16:33:58 [MarkS]
JS: Where are we with migrating 5.1 into 5.0.
16:34:50 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:35:08 [MarkS]
SF: There is one open CR bug on ALT which I will resolve before 3/15. Been sick, been catching up. Will respond to emails from PC as well.
16:35:19 [Zakim]
16:35:49 [MarkS]
...most of the stuff in 5.1 is already in 5.0
16:36:20 [MarkS]
JS: The goal for the HTML F2F is to have a heartbeat with no bugs and no features at risk.
16:36:42 [MarkS]
...would like to have all ALT work done and publish the ALT techniques document and publish it as a Note
16:37:05 [MarkS]
...The Status section would point to HTML5 pointing out that they appear in HTML 5.0 and 5.1
16:37:20 [Judy]
16:37:33 [MarkS]
JS: There is some interest to continue to develop ALT guidance and possibly use that document, continue to develop it.
16:37:47 [MarkS]
ack judy
16:37:51 [janina]
ack j
16:38:33 [MarkS]
JB: we have been having discussions in WAI groups RE ALT guidance. Want to expand work in these settings. The pointers may go to other WAI resources as well.
16:39:23 [MarkS]
PC: someone should file a CR bug
16:39:41 [MarkS]
...trying to work through these as quickly as possible.
16:40:53 [MarkS]
JS: I believe the processing of ALT bugs have been done in front of the HTML WG. Is there any other approval process we need to go through?
16:42:01 [MarkS]
PC: I don't think so, but it is possible that some closer inspection may reveal more issues. I think Steve did a good job of documenting his work using Bugzilla. It's what the editorial team has been doing for their work.
16:42:44 [MarkS]
...Steve's done a great job of working transparently. I think HTML WG should be clear what has been done.
16:43:41 [MarkS]
SF: In discussions on list, I have indicated what is to be back ported. All the process should be there. I don't think there will be any surprises moving them to 5.0
16:43:57 [richardschwerdtfeger]
16:44:33 [MarkS]
PC: That is exactly why the chairs want to do this as early as possible. Canvas has made it clear that when it appears you are at the last stage, you may not be.
16:45:05 [MarkS]
...we want to get the clean CR in people's hands early so we can resolve any issues without holding up the timeline
16:45:33 [MarkS]
JS: There is a concern that people may not see these individual bugs as a much larger change to the spec.
16:46:34 [MarkS]
SF: the overarching change has been flagged in the HTML landscape document, listing all the bug changes from the last spec.
16:46:45 [MarkS]
16:47:51 [MarkS]
JS: will CSUN set this back?
16:47:54 [MarkS]
SF: no
16:48:03 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
16:48:03 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF" taken up [from see below]
16:48:27 [Zakim]
16:49:35 [janina]
16:49:36 [MarkS]
LW: good discussion on processing bugs with HTML Chairs and Editors. Have clear path to move forward with old bugs which may still be relevant.
16:49:55 [MarkS]
...we will change the component to the a11y tf component and either close it or prep it to be reopened in 5.1
16:50:19 [MarkS]
PC: I think the plan discussed in email is a good plan. I will indicate that on the thread.
16:51:33 [MarkS]
...I think there are some bugs in the component already. The bug triage team may want to process those as well.
16:51:43 [MarkS]
...prior to adding new ones in there.
16:52:45 [MarkS]
zakim, next item
16:52:45 [Zakim]
agendum 10. "Other Business" taken up [from MarkS]
16:53:21 [MarkS]
RS: I sent a note about User Agent Implementation Guides
16:54:13 [MarkS]
JS: Long discussion in ARIA call, and on the PF call. We have several documents, some out of this group, at least one between PF and SVG. Mapping HTML elements into the AAPIs and defining ARIA behaviors. This is for the next iteration of ARIA 1.1 and beyond
16:55:35 [MarkS]
...the common factor is PF and the ARIA work, so they would like to oversee all of these documents. On the other hand, we don't think its appropriate for PF to author these. We would like to get active on these documents in the HTML5.1 time frame. We are aiming for 2016 for HTML and SVG
16:56:23 [MarkS] can we get this work going? working on refactoring workflow and document structure/hierarchy
16:56:50 [MarkS]
...Figuring out what features will go into Core and what will go into technology specific documents.
16:57:20 [MarkS]
...Michael Cooper will be in charge of most of this, but won't be able to focus on it until ARIA 1.0 is out the door and his WCAG work as well.
16:57:31 [MarkS]
...Likely in April
16:57:52 [MarkS]
...i believe that what we do RE: HTML will be a TF document.
16:58:06 [MarkS]
...we will publish Heartbeats
16:58:33 [MarkS]
...coordination will happen in PF
16:58:43 [MarkS]
16:58:47 [MarkS]
ack cyn
16:58:55 [richardschwerdtfeger]
16:59:15 [MarkS]
CS: Would like feedback on what this work will have on the HTML5 aria map document
16:59:23 [paulc]
I am sorry but I am chairing the WG meeting today and have to leave ASAP.
16:59:24 [MarkS]
...who will be working on that
16:59:27 [MarkS]
...from this group
17:00:08 [MarkS]
RS: All of HTML5 and SVG2 will be defined in terms of ARIA semantics. A core specification. This will reduce the size of the exiting document.
17:00:45 [paulc]
Can we please take this up next week when we would have more time?
17:00:52 [paulc]
I MUST leave now. Sorry.
17:00:53 [MarkS]
...a lot of the things we find in SVG2 overlap with HTML. There is a common DOM. This is where the core spec becomes important.
17:01:20 [MarkS]
...should explain why the HTML ARIA Implementaiton guide will get smaller
17:01:30 [Zakim]
17:04:18 [MarkS]
CS: Want to know who I need to talk to, who may have an issue with this.
17:04:33 [MarkS]
JS: I think everyone is focused on getting 5.0 out the door.
17:04:44 [MarkS]
...don't think we are looking for editors, but looking for people to participate.
17:04:53 [Zakim]
17:05:20 [MarkS]
JS: the F2F might be a good opportunity to bring this topic up.
17:05:33 [MarkS]
17:05:40 [Zakim]
17:05:49 [Zakim]
17:05:58 [Zakim]
17:05:59 [Zakim]
17:06:01 [Zakim]
17:06:02 [Zakim]
17:06:02 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
17:06:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mark_Sadecki, JF, janina, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, paulc, [IPcaller], Leonie, Cynthia_Shelly, Judy
17:06:10 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MarkS
17:25:39 [janina]
janina has changed the topic to: HTML-A11Y Canvas Subteam; Monday 10 March at 22:00Z for 60 minutes; Zakim 2119#
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