15:59:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:59:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-html-media-irc
15:59:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
15:59:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
15:59:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:39 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:59:39 <trackbot> Date: 04 March 2014
16:00:00 <Zakim> HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:07 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:00:15 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:00:15 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
16:00:21 <Zakim> +markw
16:00:26 <Zakim> +glenn
16:00:47 <paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Mar/0010.html
16:01:08 <joesteele> joesteele has joined #html-media
16:01:20 <Zakim> +AWK
16:01:23 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #html-media
16:01:30 <joesteele> Zakim, AWK is me
16:01:30 <Zakim> +joesteele; got it
16:01:38 <johnsim> johnsim has joined #html-media
16:02:15 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:02:16 <davide> davide has joined #html-media
16:02:22 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:02:22 <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
16:02:26 <pladd> pladd has joined #html-media
16:02:51 <pal> pal has joined #html-media
16:02:52 <Zakim> + +1.425.936.aaaa
16:02:57 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #html-media
16:03:00 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:03:00 <ddorwin> zakim, aaa is me
16:03:02 <Zakim> sorry, ddorwin, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
16:03:14 <ddorwin> zakim, aaaa is me
16:03:14 <Zakim> +ddorwin; got it
16:03:18 <Zakim> +davide
16:03:35 <johnsim> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see paulc, markw, glenn, joesteele, adrianba, ddorwin, [Microsoft], davide
16:03:38 <paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Mar/0010.html
16:03:44 <johnsim> zakim, [microsoft] is me
16:03:44 <Zakim> +johnsim; got it
16:03:52 <Zakim> +pal
16:04:13 <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Mar/0010.html
16:04:25 <adrianba> Chair: Paul Cotton
16:04:30 <adrianba> ScribeNick: adrianba
16:04:35 <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Bateman
16:04:42 <adrianba> TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
16:04:45 <adrianba> paulc: done
16:04:50 <Zakim> +BobLund
16:05:20 <adrianba> TOPIC: NEW EME bugs since the last meeting
16:05:27 <adrianba> paulc: there are 4 of these
16:05:37 <adrianba> ... one of them had a lot of discussion but the others not so much
16:05:45 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 24771 - Provide guidance on object and CDM lifetime (including when events are guaranteed to be fired)
16:05:49 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24771
16:05:49 <paulc> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24771
16:06:35 <adrianba> paulc: long proposal here - do you just want to add this to the list of things of comments or should david introduce the issues?
16:07:19 <adrianba> ddorwin: issue came up when deciding when to GC the objects - could be a circular reference meaning things wouldn't get collected
16:07:25 <adrianba> paulc: volunteer to review?
16:07:41 <markw> I will review it too, but I am also not a browser vendor
16:07:46 <adrianba> joesteele: i could review but not sure if my input would be as useful - not a browser vendor
16:08:22 <adrianba> paulc: perhaps someone from Microsoft can take a look at this
16:08:50 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 24873 - Current isTypeSupported() definition does not provide sufficient information to applications
16:08:57 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24873
16:09:40 <adrianba> paulc: filed recently - does this fall into the same category?
16:10:19 <adrianba> ddorwin: not being able to detect if the browser has capabilities needed - adrian mentioned this in one of the other bugs
16:10:22 <joesteele> +q
16:10:30 <adrianba> ... first two paragraphs says what it is - the rest says why
16:10:47 <adrianba> ... two changes - one if to add capability string and the other is changing the return type to have three states
16:10:59 <adrianba> ... somewhat like canPlayType though doesn't have to be
16:11:02 <paulc> ack joe
16:11:11 <adrianba> ... those are independent but work well together
16:11:22 <adrianba> joesteele: seems to reintroduce something we discussed at the beginning
16:11:40 <adrianba> ... decided early on the key systems shouldn't have this info because it was too complicated
16:11:55 <adrianba> ddorwin: some of the same issues but this is more targeted specifically at audio vs video
16:12:05 <adrianba> ... but we decided not to 'abuse' the key system name
16:12:23 <adrianba> joesteele: maybe i'm not understanding capability - do you mean things like HDCP
16:12:42 <adrianba> ... is this something where this platform is not at all capable or not right now
16:12:53 <adrianba> ... because if not right now then you'd need to call again
16:13:06 <adrianba> ddorwin: no, i wasn't thinking about HDCP which can take a couple of seconds
16:13:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:13:15 <adrianba> ... this is supposed to return quickly
16:13:30 <adrianba> ... many key systems support multiple levels of robustness
16:13:39 <adrianba> q+
16:13:41 <ddorwin> The old capability detection bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16611
16:14:08 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #html-media
16:14:19 <paulc> ack ad
16:14:50 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft] is jdsmith
16:14:50 <Zakim> +jdsmith; got it
16:15:04 <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:15:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see paulc, markw, glenn, joesteele, adrianba, ddorwin, johnsim, davide, pal, BobLund, jdsmith
16:15:14 <adrianba> adrianba: not sure what the capability string contains - what if it is more than one thing - should it be a string or something else?
16:15:30 <adrianba> ddorwin: it is key system specific - could have a key system specific separator
16:15:45 <adrianba> ... could have an array of strings but just as easy to be comma separated
16:15:58 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 24874 - Positive isTypeSupported() may be misleading (MSE vs. .src=)
16:16:05 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24874
16:16:41 <adrianba> ddorwin: result of isTypeSupported doesn't say if it works with MSE or with src=
16:16:46 <adrianba> ... filed to track this issue
16:16:55 <adrianba> paulc: questions?
16:17:09 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 24904 - Uint8Array parameters should not be modifiable after method calls return
16:17:16 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24904
16:17:30 <adrianba> paulc: provided the beginning of the march part of the thread
16:17:33 <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Mar/0002.html
16:17:47 <adrianba> paulc: most recent suggestion to raise this as a TAG issue
16:18:03 <joesteele> +1 to email discussion
16:18:10 <adrianba> paulc: shall we let this continue in email? this problem exists in other places too
16:18:23 <adrianba> TOPIC: EME bugs for discussion
16:18:39 <adrianba> paulc: all the bugs that had postings since our last meeting
16:18:54 <adrianba> ... agenda item 7 includes implemented bugs since last time (4 bugs)
16:19:19 <adrianba> ... agenda item 8 is bugs waiting for editors (6 bugs)
16:19:32 <adrianba> ... agenda item 9 is low pri bugs
16:19:52 <adrianba> ... plan to step through the items in #6 and ignore the others today
16:20:06 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for implementations that choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format
16:20:12 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
16:20:16 <adrianba> q+
16:21:22 <paulc> ack adr
16:24:01 <adrianba> adrianba: we think we should move ahead with changing this as discussed in recent meetings to see if people like the text
16:24:18 <adrianba> ... (that's Microsoft's position)
16:24:26 <joesteele> no objection
16:24:30 <adrianba> paulc: any comments?
16:24:33 <adrianba> paulc: any objections to trying this out?
16:24:50 <adrianba> ... okay, this one is assigned to the editors to do
16:25:07 <adrianba> adrianba: i'm happy to make the change
16:26:06 <adrianba> ddorwin: i'll file a specific bug about the "CENC" string - i suspect we'll need to change isTypeSupported too
16:26:24 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 17750 - Define the behavior MediaKeySession close() and clearing the keys attribute
16:26:30 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750
16:26:58 <adrianba> paulc: comment from adrian on feb 21
16:28:06 <joesteele> +q
16:28:23 <adrianba> adrianba: we reviewed this and think we're proposing the correct answer - we need someone to check our working
16:28:46 <adrianba> ddorwin: no specific objections
16:28:49 <paulc> ack joe
16:28:59 <adrianba> markw: looks okay - i will check with our implementers
16:29:19 <adrianba> joesteele: i had raised a question above about cached keys being released
16:29:30 <adrianba> ... not clear to me that we agree that keys can be cached
16:29:32 <adrianba> q+
16:29:41 <adrianba> ... might be off topic for this bug
16:29:41 <paulc> ack adr
16:30:14 <adrianba> adrianba: i think loadSession implies there are cached keys otherwise what could you load
16:32:27 <glenn> q+
16:32:35 <adrianba> adrianba: i think there is a question beyond just consistency with other specs - we proposed a solution that does impact what order things can execute in
16:32:42 <ddorwin> q+
16:32:45 <adrianba> ... so there is something EME specific to review here too
16:32:56 <paulc> ack glenn
16:33:11 <adrianba> glenn: haven't looked at the detail but curious if there is a need for promises here?
16:34:09 <ddorwin> Does the proposed spec change related to spinning the event loop mean MediaKeys construction will prevent any other tasks (from any other spec) from being processed? Is that desirable?
16:34:14 <paulc> ack dd
16:34:26 <adrianba> adrianba: i don't think promises apply here - this is about multiple async tasks interacting with each other
16:35:46 <glenn> sleep(0)
16:36:31 <adrianba> adrianba: spinning the event loop is like VB6 DoEvents - it lets other things run
16:36:45 <adrianba> paulc: is there an editor to implement this?
16:36:49 <adrianba> adrianba: i can do this
16:37:11 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 21798 - Revisit MediaKeyError codes
16:37:17 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21798
16:37:27 <adrianba> q+
16:37:40 <paulc> ack adr
16:39:04 <adrianba> adrianba: we can live with not solving this in this version but if someone comes up with a workable proposal then we are okay with that
16:39:18 <adrianba> ddorwin: i will make a proposal
16:39:49 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 23619 - Change MediaKeyError to extend DOMError and use strings for error names
16:39:54 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23619
16:40:06 <adrianba> q+
16:42:28 <ddorwin> Open issue in DOM4 on the future of DOMError: http://www.w3.org/TR/dom/#interface-domerror
16:43:06 <ddorwin> q+
16:43:08 <adrianba> adrianba: while the spec continues to have DOMError, we think we're using it correctly
16:43:15 <paulc> ack adr
16:43:17 <adrianba> ... we also prefer to keep systemCode
16:43:18 <paulc> ack dd
16:43:50 <joesteele> +1 to keeping it in the spec as-is
16:43:55 <adrianba> ddorwin: i don't object to system code and the inclusion requires that we define an additional type - if people want to keep it then that is fine - it is already in the spec
16:44:09 <adrianba> paulc: what is next?
16:44:20 <adrianba> ddorwin: if nobody wants to eliminate this type then we resolve, fixed
16:44:34 <adrianba> paulc: proposal is to mark it fixed
16:44:36 <ddorwin> done
16:44:52 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 24027 - Define a generic Initialization Data solution for ISO Base Media File Format and/or Common Encryption (will be used by Clear Key)
16:44:59 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24027
16:45:13 <adrianba> paulc: mark agreed to add a concrete proposal - in comment 6
16:45:21 <adrianba> ... some dialogue here - what is the current state?
16:45:57 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
16:46:30 <joesteele> q+
16:46:37 <adrianba> markw: i didn't see the questions from joe and david so i need to catch up and reply to their points
16:46:41 <paulc> ack joe
16:47:28 <adrianba> joesteele: i should reply in the bug - i wasn't clear from david's last question why you wouldn't want to use the MAC - i would guess that the CDM would say key not available
16:48:02 <adrianba> ddorwin: some confusion about what the MAC was earlier in thread - agree - question is do the existing algorithms deal with this
16:48:17 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 24419 - Clear Key: Define license request format
16:48:24 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24419
16:48:50 <Zakim> -BobLund
16:48:52 <Zakim> +BobLund
16:48:57 <adrianba> paulc: is this ready to move to the "to be implemented" list?
16:49:19 <adrianba> ddorwin: need to implement the license request format first
16:49:35 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 24673 - Make all content type string checks case-sensitive
16:49:41 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24673
16:50:34 <adrianba> ddorwin: we find that the content type and the codecs have different requirements
16:50:55 <adrianba> ... so we might need non-normative text
16:51:23 <adrianba> adrianba: seems fine - just need text to add
16:51:59 <adrianba> paulc: do we need concrete text in the bug or just move forward - better to move ahead
16:52:31 <adrianba> ddorwin: will make this dependent on the "CENC" bug that I said I will file
16:52:56 <adrianba> TOPIC: Any other business
16:53:13 <adrianba> paulc: i said we'd skip the other bugs unless someone objects - now is the time if you want to
16:53:39 <adrianba> ... in 10 days i'll evaluate where we stand for the topic bugs for discussion in the next meeting
16:53:44 <adrianba> q+
16:53:51 <paulc> ack adrian
16:54:21 <adrianba> adrianba: different topic, are people planning to attend the F2F meeting to discuss EME?
16:54:24 <markw> yes, I'll be there
16:54:53 <BobLund> I'll  be there
16:55:06 <adrianba> paulc: [lists attendees from TF who already plan to attend]
16:55:45 <paulc> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/html-april-2014/results
16:55:45 <adrianba> paulc: if you can't attend might be helpful to fill out the registration form saying so
16:56:34 <adrianba> joesteele: i may have a conflict - probably be on the phone at least
16:57:19 <adrianba> ddorwin: would be nice if we knew which day to minimise travel
16:57:26 <paulc> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda#Potential_Topics
16:57:32 <adrianba> paulc: if you put it on the potential topics list then we can reserve that time
16:57:42 <adrianba> ... meeting is tues/wed
16:57:48 <BobLund> Tue or Wed AM
16:57:53 <paulc> April 8-9
16:58:02 <adrianba> ... does anyone have a pref for which day
16:58:14 <adrianba> johnsim: if the meeting is wed AM i might be able to attend
16:58:21 <adrianba> paulc: any objections to wed AM?
16:58:23 <BobLund> Wed AM is good
16:58:47 <adrianba> adrianba: works for me
16:59:06 <adrianba> paulc: would it be worth asking dsinger about attending?
16:59:16 <adrianba> pal: excellent idea
16:59:52 <adrianba> paulc: i'll propose on the draft agenda - should i ask for 9 to 11?
17:00:07 <adrianba> ... i'll figure this out
17:03:24 <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournment
17:03:28 <Zakim> -joesteele
17:03:30 <Zakim> -davide
17:03:30 <adrianba> paulc: talk to you in 2 weeks
17:03:33 <Zakim> -johnsim
17:03:34 <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:03:34 <Zakim> -glenn
17:03:34 <Zakim> -jdsmith
17:03:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see paulc, markw, adrianba, ddorwin, pal, BobLund
17:03:35 <Zakim> -markw
17:03:35 <Zakim> -adrianba
17:03:37 <Zakim> -ddorwin
17:03:37 <Zakim> -pal
17:03:40 <Zakim> -BobLund
17:03:45 <paulc> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:03:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-html-media-minutes.html paulc
17:03:48 <davide> davide has left #html-media
17:03:57 <adrianba> zakim, bye
17:03:57 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were paulc, markw, glenn, joesteele, adrianba, +1.425.936.aaaa, ddorwin, davide, johnsim, pal, BobLund, jdsmith
17:03:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-media
17:04:01 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
17:04:06 <adrianba> rrsagent, make logs public