19:56:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:56:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-aapi-irc
19:57:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
19:57:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:57:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
19:57:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
19:57:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19:57:04 <trackbot> Date: 04 March 2014
19:57:59 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
19:58:06 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
19:58:15 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:58:15 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:58:21 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:58:21 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:58:30 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:58:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:58:54 <clown> agenda: this
19:59:05 <clown> agenda+ Note that DST for Canada/US comes into effect by next meeting (Mar 11).
19:59:12 <clown> agenda+ Progress on refactoring UAIG and starting on edits for UAIG 1.1.
19:59:17 <Zakim> + +1.415.624.aaaa
19:59:22 <clown> agenda+ Addition of table role(s) to ARIA 1.1. ISSUE-423/ACTION-1395.
19:59:25 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
19:59:35 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369: (David, Cynthia) aria-live removal events should/must happen before object removal.
19:59:45 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-441/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Test case for incomplete use of aria-posinset/aria-setsize.
19:59:46 <davidb> Zakim, Mozilla has David_Bolter
19:59:46 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
19:59:56 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-618/ACTION-1371: (Cynthia) Investigate how IE implements item de-selection in single selection container.
20:00:05 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-635/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Create test case for rowgroup role.
20:00:30 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-644: (All) Update ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped.
20:00:39 <clown> agenda+ 1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All)  Start with ISSUE-540, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
20:00:44 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
20:00:44 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
20:00:46 <clown> agenda+ be done.
20:01:03 <davidb> oh
20:01:06 <clown> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joseph_Scheuhammer, +1.415.624.aaaa
20:02:05 <clown> regrets:  Joanie_Diggs
20:02:09 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa
20:02:09 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa; got it
20:02:47 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
20:02:47 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
20:02:53 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
20:03:02 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mintues', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:03:21 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
20:03:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:04:03 <clown> zakaim, agenda?
20:04:12 <clown> zakim, agenda?
20:04:12 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
20:04:13 <Zakim> 1. Note that DST for Canada/US comes into effect by next meeting (Mar 11). [from clown]
20:04:13 <Zakim> 2. Progress on refactoring UAIG and starting on edits for UAIG 1.1. [from clown]
20:04:13 <Zakim> 3. Addition of table role(s) to ARIA 1.1. ISSUE-423/ACTION-1395. [from clown]
20:04:13 <Zakim> 4. ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369: (David, Cynthia) aria-live removal events should/must happen before object removal. [from clown]
20:04:15 <Zakim> 5. ISSUE-441/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Test case for incomplete use of aria-posinset/aria-setsize. [from clown]
20:04:15 <Zakim> 6. ISSUE-618/ACTION-1371: (Cynthia) Investigate how IE implements item de-selection in single selection container. [from clown]
20:04:15 <Zakim> 7. ISSUE-635/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Create test case for rowgroup role. [from clown]
20:04:15 <Zakim> 8. ISSUE-644: (All) Update ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped. [from clown]
20:04:17 <Zakim> 9. 1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All)  Start with ISSUE-540, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23 [from clown]
20:04:17 <Zakim> 10. be done. [from clown]
20:04:17 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
20:04:35 <davidb> Zakim, Mozilla has David_Bolter
20:04:35 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
20:05:02 <clown> scribenick: davidb
20:07:31 <davidb> DB: hoping to move some of my items to email so that I don't have to be an obstacle during my chaotic weeks
20:08:00 <davidb> JS: this meeting is good for final resolution, do everything else via email
20:09:21 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 1
20:09:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Note that DST for Canada/US comes into effect by next meeting (Mar 11)." taken up [from clown]
20:12:07 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 2
20:12:07 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Progress on refactoring UAIG and starting on edits for UAIG 1.1." taken up [from clown]
20:14:38 <davidb> JS: discussing documentation build system
20:15:30 <davidb> JS explains it is getting simplified (post 1.0)
20:16:53 <davidb> JS: will add corrected gnome mappings to 1.1 uaig soon
20:17:26 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 3
20:17:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Addition of table role(s) to ARIA 1.1. ISSUE-423/ACTION-1395." taken up [from clown]
20:17:47 <davidb> JS: this is to bring DB up to speed
20:18:08 <davidb> JS: we concluded we would add a table role, primarily for non html languages.
20:18:26 <davidb> JS: grid is considered interactive, table is a classic data table, just structure.
20:19:08 <davidb> JS: table role added to 1.1, someone will look at sub elements as well... TBD
20:19:38 <davidb> JS: so you can make a table in SVG
20:19:45 <davidb> alex might say just mix in html
20:21:06 <davidb> (group discussion of role hierarchy)
20:21:18 <davidb> BG: I see people misusing grid.
20:23:18 <clown> action-1396?
20:23:18 <trackbot> action-1396 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify uaig to convey grid role in accessibility mappings, beyond table. (atk/atspi/ ia2 xml-role=grid, macosx: roledescription: grid, msaa/uiaexpress localizedcontroltype="grid"?) -- due 2014-03-10 -- OPEN
20:23:19 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1396
20:23:51 <davidb> JS: grid is currently mapped to table in all a11y APIs
20:27:24 <davidb> JS: where do we map table? (sic)
20:27:33 <davidb> DB: hard not to map it to table
20:29:09 <davidb> discussion of BSTR hack in light of xml-roles obj attr
20:30:17 <davidb> DB: BSTR should be considered deprecated
20:32:53 <davidb> discussion of who controls navigation for grid vs table
20:35:14 <davidb> JS: (reads spec wording about grid edit-ability vs read only-ness from spec)
20:37:03 <davidb> DB: this smells fuzzy
20:37:17 <davidb> JS: no black and white line between tables and grids
20:37:23 <davidb> JS: and what about selection
20:39:16 <davidb> sounds like table could be treated like a grid with aria readonly on the whole thing
20:43:36 <clown> <table role="log" ...>
20:44:04 <davidb> (brief review of "addition of HTML role requirement mappings" public thread)
20:46:30 <davidb> DB: i never liked edge cases
20:47:04 <davidb> DB: conclusion - we need broader feedback
20:47:30 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 4
20:47:30 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369: (David, Cynthia) aria-live removal events should/must happen before object removal." taken up [from clown]
20:47:39 <clown> issue-481?
20:47:39 <trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open
20:47:39 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481
20:48:12 <davidb> postpone to next week
20:48:21 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 5
20:48:21 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ISSUE-441/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Test case for incomplete use of aria-posinset/aria-setsize." taken up [from clown]
20:48:30 <davidb> meeting shame!
20:49:00 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 6
20:49:00 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ISSUE-618/ACTION-1371: (Cynthia) Investigate how IE implements item de-selection in single selection container." taken up [from clown]
20:49:11 <clown> zakim, take bup agenda 7
20:49:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take bup agenda 7', clown
20:49:18 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 7
20:49:18 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ISSUE-635/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Create test case for rowgroup role." taken up [from clown]
20:49:27 <clown> cynthia not here, let's skip.
20:49:34 <davidb> Zakim, I need a bio break
20:49:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I need a bio break', davidb
20:49:50 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 8
20:49:50 <Zakim> agendum 8. "ISSUE-644: (All) Update ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped." taken up [from clown]
20:49:58 <clown> issue-644?
20:49:58 <trackbot> issue-644 -- Update ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped -- open
20:49:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/644
20:50:46 <clown> "If the object is in the accessibility tree, map all attributes as normal. In addition, expose object attribute hidden:true."
20:51:40 <clown> "Element SHOULD NOT be exposed in a11y tree.  If the object is in the ….
20:52:27 <clown> AXAPI says:  "Not exposed in AX API unless focused. If focused, expose as normal."
20:53:53 <davidb> DB: I'm probably ok with _SHOULD_ NOT but with a grunt
20:55:57 <davidb> BG: could be bad to expose even the interactive elements, given you want to prevent usage of the hidden tree
20:58:17 <davidb> (group discussing aria-hidden yet again)
21:01:34 <clown> zakim, take up agenda 9
21:01:34 <Zakim> agendum 9. "1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All)  Start with ISSUE-540, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23" taken up [from clown]
21:01:42 <clown> end of the hour.
21:02:23 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
21:02:37 <clown> zakim, bye
21:02:37 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, +1.415.624.aaaa, David_Bolter, Bryan_Garaventa
21:02:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:02:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-aapi-minutes.html clown
21:04:44 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:07:08 <clown> present:  Joseph_Scheuhammer,, David_Bolter, Bryan_Garaventa
21:07:12 <clown> regrets: Joanie_Diggs, Cynthia_Shelley
21:07:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/04-aapi-minutes.html clown
21:07:46 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help