IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-03-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

22:54:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
22:54:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/03-html-a11y-irc
22:54:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
22:54:13 [MarkS]
Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
22:54:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
22:54:14 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
22:54:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
22:54:15 [trackbot]
Date: 03 March 2014
22:54:20 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
23:00:44 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
23:01:13 [JatinderMann]
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23:01:40 [MarkS]
zakim, who is on the phone
23:01:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', MarkS
23:01:45 [MarkS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
23:01:45 [Zakim]
apparently WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended, MarkS
23:01:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see JatinderMann, richardschwerdtfeger, RRSAgent, jaymunro, trackbot, MarkS, janina, Zakim, hober, cabanier
23:01:54 [MarkS]
zakim, this is WAI_PFWG
23:01:55 [Zakim]
sorry, MarkS, I do not see a conference named 'WAI_PFWG' in progress or scheduled at this time
23:02:26 [JatinderMann]
present+ JatinderMann
23:02:27 [MarkS]
zakim, this is 2119
23:02:27 [Zakim]
ok, MarkS; that matches WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM
23:02:36 [MarkS]
zakim, who is on the phone
23:02:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', MarkS
23:02:37 [MarkS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
23:02:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MarkS, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a]
23:02:41 [Zakim]
+cabanier
23:02:57 [MarkS]
zakim, [Microsoft] is Jatiner_Mann
23:02:57 [Zakim]
+Jatiner_Mann; got it
23:03:09 [jaymunro]
zakim, microsoft.a has me
23:03:09 [Zakim]
+jaymunro; got it
23:03:10 [MarkS]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is Jay Munro
23:03:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[Microsoft.a] is Jay Munro', MarkS
23:03:26 [MarkS]
zakim, take up first item
23:03:26 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up first item', MarkS
23:03:33 [MarkS]
zakim, agenda?
23:03:33 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
23:03:34 [Zakim]
1. Walk through Hit Regions spec to discuss priority for implementation [from MarkS]
23:03:34 [Zakim]
2. Possible Testing and/or Coordination meeting at [from http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda HTML WG F2F April 7-9 via MarkS]
23:03:34 [Zakim]
3. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
23:03:38 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
23:03:38 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Walk through Hit Regions spec to discuss priority for implementation" taken up [from MarkS]
23:04:55 [MarkS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014JanMar/0159.html
23:05:35 [MarkS]
Do we plan on supporting nested regions with hierarchical/ancestor relationships in L1?
23:05:46 [MarkS]
RC: I had not implemented that yet. No parent ID
23:07:02 [MarkS]
...this is about how multiple regions on the page behave.
23:07:17 [MarkS]
RS: Is this like a Z-order?
23:07:48 [MarkS]
RC: This is a parent ID. Inherit z-order and other
23:08:17 [MarkS]
RC: This is a pseudo DOM
23:09:34 [MarkS]
...the hierarchy is ignored in the fallback content, the relationship would be established using this parent ID
23:09:56 [MarkS]
...where it bubbles, it follows the DOM order.
23:10:13 [MarkS]
RS: mouse event will bubble up the parent tree, like anything else in the DOM.
23:10:58 [MarkS]
...with Hit Testing, it would be nice if you have a parent region and a child, you would think that the child would get first chance to record the hit, otherwise bubble up to the parent.
23:11:04 [MarkS]
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#the-canvas-element
23:12:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
A hit region A is an ancestor region of a hit region B if B has a parent and its parent is either A or another hit region for which A is an ancestor region.
23:14:34 [MarkS]
RS: lets say I had a container div in the fallback content, and then I had a B inside of it, I might have multiple children, each of those would have a hit region. The parent would contain all of those items. You would have to go through...
23:14:41 [MarkS]
RC: First you set up the bigger region, then the smaller one.
23:14:47 [MarkS]
RS: so its up to the author
23:15:02 [MarkS]
RC: the fallback content does not need to match.
23:15:18 [MarkS]
s/fallback/fallback nesting
23:16:53 [MarkS]
...subtract the children's pixels from the parent.
23:18:13 [MarkS]
RS: If its a list, the children have to be higher in the list than their parent in order to get a hit.
23:18:23 [MarkS]
RC: the algorithm takes care of that.
23:18:32 [MarkS]
...is the parent ID necessary for L1
23:19:42 [MarkS]
RS: Do we have anything on here that says, when something is drawn it goes to the top of the region list?
23:20:25 [MarkS]
19 Clear regions that cover the pixels in region's set of pixels on this scratch bitmap.
23:21:07 [Zakim]
+??P5
23:21:44 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
23:21:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MarkS, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Jatiner_Mann, [Microsoft.a], cabanier, ??P5
23:21:46 [Zakim]
[Microsoft.a] has jaymunro
23:21:55 [janina]
zakim, ??P5 is me
23:21:55 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
23:22:25 [MarkS]
RC: I think this is for the AAPI to understand the relationship between regions.
23:23:32 [MarkS]
RS: You have a new hit region, bind it to the element. Your fallback content will have the structural hierarchy that will be used in the AAPI. Since the options are in the listbox, there is an implied relationship there.
23:24:21 [MarkS]
RS: The roles are not enough for the AAPI.
23:25:02 [MarkS]
...if you create a region that has a checkbox role, how do you specify its state?
23:26:12 [MarkS]
...what happens with an accessibility checker. i can't walk the structure. its sitting inside a virtual dom in the canvas
23:26:27 [MarkS]
RC: it would expose the hit regions DOM
23:27:04 [MarkS]
RS: not sure why they are doing this.
23:28:49 [MarkS]
...there are a number of issues with this that are problematic. You can't convey state with this.
23:29:43 [MarkS]
...they are trying to restrict fallback content to only HTML controls.
23:30:12 [MarkS]
...I wouldn't include any of this as it stands.
23:30:25 [MarkS]
...the browser would have to create new api's to expose this dom
23:30:54 [MarkS]
RC: The WHAT WG spec has been updated to be less restrictive regarding elements that can be used for fallback content
23:31:51 [cabanier]
The arguments object's control member is not one of the following:
23:31:51 [cabanier]
null
23:31:51 [cabanier]
an a element that represents a hyperlink
23:31:51 [cabanier]
a button element
23:31:51 [cabanier]
an input element whose type attribute is in one of the Checkbox or Radio Button states
23:31:51 [cabanier]
an input element that is a button
23:31:51 [cabanier]
a select element with a multiple attribute or a display size greater than 1
23:31:51 [cabanier]
an option element that is in a list of options of a select element with a multiple attribute or a display size greater than 1
23:31:52 [cabanier]
a sorting interface th element
23:31:52 [cabanier]
an element that would not be interactive content except for having the tabindex attribute specified
23:31:52 [cabanier]
a non-interactive table, caption, thead, tbody, tfoot, tr, td, or th element
23:34:10 [MarkS]
RS: What if when your fallback content is a grid or a list box. all behavior is managed in a container in fallback. it will bubble up to the parent.
23:34:26 [MarkS]
...why would it be limited to elements with tabindex
23:35:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]
<div role="listbox" tabindex="0" aria-activedescendant="id of child">
23:35:46 [MarkS]
RS: you will have a keyboard handler on that. focus will be fired on behalf of the child.
23:36:18 [MarkS]
...that is why there should be no restrictions on what can be used for fallback content.
23:37:32 [MarkS]
RC: its to avoid authors putting in nonsense content in fallback
23:37:39 [MarkS]
JS: anyone can create nonsense.
23:37:59 [MarkS]
RS: Hopefully Ian will see this use case against any sort of restrictions.
23:38:10 [MarkS]
RC: this shouldn't affect hit testing.
23:38:44 [MarkS]
RS: We don't want to do parent ID, label or ARIA role for L1
23:39:03 [MarkS]
Topic: Custom mouse cursors
23:39:40 [MarkS]
RS: where would you need a custom mouse cursor? Rich text editing? Hopefully people won't be doing that
23:40:53 [MarkS]
... don't think its critical for L1
23:40:59 [MarkS]
...would be nice, but low priority for L1
23:41:16 [MarkS]
Topic: fill rule
23:41:34 [MarkS]
RC: this is needed. for different kinds of binding rules
23:41:58 [MarkS]
RS: OK
23:42:32 [MarkS]
...we will have to convince Dominic that deferred features can be implemented without breaking anything.
23:43:01 [MarkS]
...we are going to implement these. If we need to add other features in, we have to do so without breaking any features that are already there.
23:43:13 [MarkS]
s/Dominic/everyone
23:44:56 [MarkS]
We will not be supporting unbacked region descriptions like label or ARIA roles for L1.
23:45:02 [MarkS]
We will be supporting removeHitRegion
23:45:08 [MarkS]
We will be supporting the MouseEvent interface
23:45:36 [MarkS]
RS: do you think Apple will be OK with this in WebKit
23:45:40 [MarkS]
RC: I think so
23:45:50 [MarkS]
JMann: are we doing hit testing?
23:45:53 [MarkS]
yes
23:46:51 [MarkS]
MS: hoping to get everything we've agreed on back into the ED of W3C Canvas 2D
23:47:09 [MarkS]
JMann: Do we add this stuff "at risk"
23:47:18 [MarkS]
RS: Its based on what Dominic says.
23:48:22 [MarkS]
JMann: OK, so well bring in hit regions and the at risk status will be based on Dominic's response.
23:51:01 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
23:51:01 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Possible Testing and/or Coordination meeting at" taken up [from http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda HTML WG F2F April 7-9]
23:53:05 [MarkS]
JMann: Would be great if we could get Dominic
23:53:17 [MarkS]
RC: I cannot go. There is an SVG F2F that same week in Germany. I will be there.
23:53:57 [MarkS]
JMann: in the very least, it would be a good opportunity to talk with Dominic
23:55:04 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
23:55:06 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
23:55:08 [Zakim]
-cabanier
23:55:10 [Zakim]
-Jatiner_Mann
23:55:15 [Zakim]
-MarkS
23:55:20 [Zakim]
-janina
23:55:21 [Zakim]
WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended
23:55:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were MarkS, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, cabanier, Jatiner_Mann, jaymunro, janina
23:55:24 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:55:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
07:17:18 [chaals]
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