See also: IRC log
<PhilA> hi yaso - code is 26631
<yaso> Tks Phil :-)
what's the code?
<yaso> yea
<yaso> yes
I'm happy to scribe
<scribe> Scribe: Jeni
<scribe> ScribeNick: JeniT
<Guus> zakim who is here?
yaso: I work for the Internet
Steering Committee
... UX designer & developer
... I work with data viz
<PhilA> yaso also works for W3C Brasil
yaso: one of the co-chairs of the
WG on Best Practices on the Web
... working on Best Practices based on use cases
... collecting common questions at the moment
... which we will try to answer
PhilA: WG is new, going for just
over a month
... most of you were involved in the SemWeb coord group
... data activity is combination of SemWeb & eGov
... coord is to get together chairs
... to understand what other groups in the area are doing
davidwood: the RDF 1.1 WG is the
2nd group I chaired with Guus
... 2 year WG that took 3.25 years
... shocked that it's ended successfully
... I'm a software engineer in industry
Guus: I'm co-chair RDF 1.1 WG, and had several other co-chair positions eg of OWL group
<PhilA> RDF 1.1 to Rec announcement
Guus: my real job is professor of
computer science in Amsterdam
... going on sabbatical to Southampton for 6 months
PhilA: have you completely finished on RDF 1.1?
davidwood: there are possibly some minor edits to come
Arnaud: lead data standards lead
at IBM
... at IBM almost 15 years
... before that at W3C as staff member
... I chair the Linked Data Platform WG
... in existence almost 2 years, current charter expires
June
... trying to finish main spec
... ended review period with few comments, but significant
ones
... including from timbl, so we couldn't ignore them
... we finally closed all the issues, editors are trying to
implement the resolutions
... there are significant changes, so we'll go to 2nd last
call
... and there are some people in the group who are questioning
some of the functionality in the spec
... so we're still trying to decide if we can go to 2nd Last
Call or not
... hopefully we'll decide next Monday
PhilA: are you already thinking about LDP2?
Arnaud: yes
PhilA: but getting to Rec by June is going to be tough
Arnaud: yes, there's no hope of
Rec, we might be Proposed Rec
... it depends on what comments we get
... and on implementations
... we have a wish list
... we have different camps with different use cases
... and lots of wishes we couldn't address in the time
... so we had to agree to limit the scope
... which we did by creating the wish list for LDP2
PhilA: creating a wish list is a
useful way to make people happy with scoping
... would it be helpful to start framing that wish list into a
charter?
Arnaud: yes, I'd like to when we get past the Last Call
<PhilA> scribe: PhilA
JeniT: I', Tech Director at the
Open data Institute and I'm on the W3C TAG, and co-chairing CSV
on the Web WG (with DanBri)
... started end of Jan with Ivan as TC
... scope is how to supply extra info with CSV files to give
context etc. that you currently can't get into CSV
... We've got 2 specs being edited. a UCR
... all grounded in real world cases
... also started work on putting together a model of tabular
data - annotated tabular data - that can be expressed as
CSV
... working out requirements before looking at the many
alternatives available
... charter due to June 2015
<scribe> scribe: JeniT
ericP: I work for W3C, working in
Healthcare & Lifesciences Interest Group
... we're trying to promote uptake of Semweb in Healthcare
& Lifesciences
... been focusing on clinical care standards for data
... eg electronic health records
... and clinical trials for the FDA, building ontologies so
future clinical trial submissions will be in RDF
... to make it easy to integrate clinical trial data
... the Interest Group rarely provides support -- I do most of
the work
sandro: I've been taking care of
RDF WG for last 2 years
... now transitioning from semweb work towards decentralised
social work
... redecentralising the web
... away from Facebook etc
... we have some research funding
... LDP & other standards are key on this
ivan: I'm staff contact for CSV
on the Web WG, and otherwise am uninteresting
... not part of this activity, but I'm involved in Force11
which looks at collaborative publishing
... I co-organised a workshop a couple of years ago
... I'm in the "Board of Directors" of that stuff
... we're finalising a set of principles on how to cite
datasets etc in scholarly publications
... with final text published this week or next
... that's on the side
... I'm also activity lead for digital publishing
... there are several areas there that raise issues relevant to
this group
... eg metadata has become a huge issue for publishers
... the vocabularies are in chaos
<PhilA> Data Citation Principles that Ivan's talking about
ivan: there are probably three
different vocabularies for each term
... the IG can give an overview of what vocabularies are around
and how they're used
... the other thing is what kind of URIs you use to specific
areas within a book
... vs the book on my machine etc
... and if there's a URI scheme that's usable for that
... and issues around annotation, essential in books
particularly in the educational market
... which also relies on an RDF vocabulary
PhilA: there's clearly a lot of
overlap there
... The point of getting together on the phone is to make sure
we know what each other are doing
... and keep an eye on the community
... what people need, what we should be doing next
... davidwood, can you summarise your view of how linked data
& the RDF world is doing?
... in the context of the US public sector?
davidwood: general feeling is
that Europe is way ahead on the interesting use & funding
of linked data projects
... with the UK well out in front
... the public sector use in the US has been centred on the
environment & on health (HHS)
... driven by a single individual
... that project has slowed
... EPA has been in a morass of bureaucracy
... they've been stuck on system security bureaucracy for the
last 2 years
... I wrote a developer's guide for linked data, released as an
ebook last year, as print in Jan
... sales in the US have been strong
... currently Manning's #6 in their best seller list
<ivan> -> David
<ivan> -> David's book: "Linked Data", David Wood, Marsha Zaidman and Luke Ruth, Manning Publications (2013), http://manning.com/dwood/
davidwood: there's quite a bit of
activity in China, driven by govt owned agencies
... there are conflicting messages
... there's some interest in Brazil, but they're struggling for
support
... I'd say Jeni's group were the leading people on linked data
in govt
PhilA: yaso, when you talk to people about linked data, what do people ask?
yaso: they ask what data to put
on the web
... 2nd question is how to collect data correctly, when
planning to open it
PhilA: does anyone ask about technology?
yaso: yes, about exposing
catalogs like CKAN or Socrata or Junar
... they don't know about URIs or vocabularies
PhilA: we had a talk from a CEO
in Palo Alto the other day
... I asked about whether they'd considered using URIs for eg
buildings
... he said he didn't know what URIs were
<PhilA> scribe: JeniT
<PhilA> scribe: PhilA
JeniT: The ODI is trying to
support the use of open data. When I talk to devs, almost none
of them ever ask for RDF. The only ones that do are
academics
... that puts us in a position. We need to provide data to devs
in a way they understand it
... but building in a tech architecture. We call them URLs for
political reasons - reduces barrier to entry
... normal devs are happy with idea of embedding URLs in data
as long as you don't say RDF or Linked Data
... less religion
<davidwood> +1 to URLs over URIs. That works for me, too.
JeniT: Hence interest in CSV, tabular data etc
<JeniT> ScribeNick: JeniT
PhilA: The data activity was put
together to try to address that
... Arnaud, you represent big business, how do you see the
world?
<ericP> actually, best practice would entail a new term: IRL
<davidwood> People seem to know URLs, but not IRIs, URIs, URI-references, etc.
Arnaud: IBM is very big
... data is a big thing at the moment eg big data, data
analysis, huge amount of activity
... IBM Watson has a whole division which builds on semantic
technologies
... the Watson engine is fed with things like DBPedia
... there is interest in linked data from that point of
view
... we always have people in IBM interested in every
technology, because we're big
... IBM is technology agnostic, we'll do whatever the customer
wants
... we haven't made a decision to adopt & push linked
data
... we have groups who have embarked on linked data
... linked data is big for some groups at IBM
... the IM (?) group doesn't see much demand
... the DB2 group decided to add linked data on their
database
... and there hasn't been much uptake
... customers don't really care much
ericP: IBM doesn't have the
greatest history of marketing: do Healthcare & Lifesciences
communities know about this?
... they always go to Oracle
Arnaud: tbh Oracle is a better
choice in this regard
... so the question of open data
... IBM gets a bunch of requests asking for help complying with
the mandate to open data
... that is significant
... but customers don't care about which technology is used, so
long as they comply with these mandates
PhilA: It sounds as if, if you
talk to some people and include "RDF" & "linked data" then
some people will be turned off
... some won't know what you're talking about
... we have a marketing problem
... yet here we are trying to bring the benefits of this to
these people whether they want it or not
... my underlying question today is, how can we address
this?
... and is there something we need to standardise now?
... it's a wider question about W3C's role too
Guus: I'm not sure it's a
marketing problem
... even in social conversations, people ask about big data
& data transparency
... I think it's about how you market it
PhilA: should we talk about big data instead?
<Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to suggest that not all is bleak; there are well defined use cases
Guus: it's all data: how you make it available is a theme & we should make sure we're part of that
davidwood: I'm giving a tutorial
today at a conference on Healthcare & Lifesciences
... the people come from pharma companies
... they're all looking outside mainstream technologies
... there are pockets of these kinds of use cases
... where there are combinatorial data needs
... if we apply linked data to these industries, we're very
successful
... it's not mainstream
... the big data meme has taken off, because of clever
marketing
<Guus> in the application area I work in (libraries, musea, archives) publishing data on the Web is a central issue
davidwood: if I say that the work that we do is part of big data or data transparency or open data, we can have a conversation
PhilA: Eric & I are speaking to Tom Baker from DCMI about RDF validation / shape expressions etc
ericP: Dublin Core in 2008 did a
description set profile, way of saying what properties you're
expecting
... associates a set of properties with a shape, then say a
node is a shape
... I extended the expressivity for shape expressions
... we looked at the expressivity of DSP & shape
expressions
PhilA: given that and the workshop in September might lead to a WG
ericP: that's our expectation, with Arnaud
Arnaud: we've submitted a spec,
with some co-submitters
... we hope to have a WG created for that, and the workshop
concluded with that recommendation
PhilA: there's a bit more community building to do
ericP: the DCMI work will provide use cases & W3C will do spec design & test cases
<PhilA> LGD14
PhilA: the other thing coming up
is the linking geospatial data workshop next week
... we don't know what the outcome will be, but it looks like
it could lead to a WG with participation from OGC, jointly
branded
... but we don't know
JeniT: to do what?
PhilA: maybe best practices
... but I don't know
... usually when a workshop starts, you have a pretty good idea
about what's going to come out, but this time not
... there's lots of people going to be there from a number of
communities
... if something else comes up that we should be looking at,
please tell us
... there are chairs with nothing to do!
... please tell me if this call isn't useful
... I propose we do these monthly
... I suggest 9am Boston time every month
... if they were scheduled every other week with the
expectation that they were frequently cancelled, is that more
useful than every month