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13:55:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/26-dacg-irc
13:56:22 <PhilA> PhilA has changed the topic to: Data Activity CG Agenda https://www.w3.org/2013/data/CG/wiki/Telecon:2014.02.26
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13:57:33 <Guus> zakim, code?
13:57:33 <Zakim> sorry, Guus, I don't know what conference this is
13:57:37 <PhilA> zakim, room for 12?
13:57:38 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dacg)13:57Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1457Z
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13:59:17 <Zakim> Team_(dacg)13:57Z has now started
13:59:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:59:28 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller is me
13:59:28 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it
13:59:34 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
14:00:29 <PhilA> hi yaso - code is 26631
14:00:41 <yaso> Tks Phil :-)
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14:02:01 <PhilA> zakim, code?
14:02:01 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
14:02:24 <JeniT> JeniT has joined #dacg
14:02:37 <JeniT> what's the code?
14:02:41 <PhilA> zakim, code?
14:02:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
14:02:43 <Zakim> +David_Wood
14:03:06 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:03:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:04:20 <ivan> ivan has joined #dacg
14:04:28 <ivan> zakim, code?
14:04:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
14:04:53 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:05:44 <yaso> yea
14:05:46 <yaso> yes
14:06:05 <Zakim> +ivan
14:06:15 <Zakim> +caroline_
14:06:31 <PhilA> zakim, caroline is yaso
14:06:31 <Zakim> +yaso; got it
14:07:04 <PhilA> chair: PhilA
14:07:09 <JeniT> I'm happy to scribe
14:07:15 <JeniT> Scribe: Jeni
14:07:19 <JeniT> ScribeNick: JeniT
14:07:40 <JeniT> Topic: Introductions
14:07:50 <Guus> zakim who is here?
14:08:16 <JeniT> yaso: I work for the ???
14:08:23 <JeniT> ... UX designer & developer
14:08:38 <JeniT> s/???/Internet Steering Committee/
14:08:43 <JeniT> ... I work with data viz
14:08:48 <PhilA> yaso also works for W3C Brasil
14:08:52 <JeniT> ... one of the co-chairs of the WG on Best Practices on the Web
14:09:04 <JeniT> ... working on Best Practices based on use cases
14:09:10 <JeniT> ... collecting common questions at the moment
14:09:16 <JeniT> ... which we will try to answer
14:09:30 <JeniT> PhilA: WG is new, going for just over a month
14:09:56 <JeniT> ... most of you were involved in the SemWeb coord group
14:10:14 <JeniT> ... data activity is combination of SemWeb & eGov
14:10:22 <JeniT> ... coord is to get together chairs
14:10:30 <JeniT> ... to understand what other groups in the area are doing
14:11:29 <JeniT> davidwood: the RDF 1.1 WG is the 2nd group I chaired with Guus
14:11:34 <JeniT> ... 2 year WG that took 3.25 years
14:11:41 <JeniT> ... shocked that it's ended successfully
14:11:52 <JeniT> ... I'm a software engineer in industry
14:12:03 <ericP> ericP has joined #dacg
14:12:15 <JeniT> Guus: I'm co-chair RDF 1.1 WG, and had several other co-chair positions eg of OWL group
14:12:23 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3701 RDF 1.1 to Rec announcement
14:12:29 <JeniT> ... my real job is professor of computer science in Amsterdam
14:12:40 <JeniT> ... going on sabbatical to Southampton for 6 months
14:12:53 <JeniT> PhilA: have you completely finished on RDF 1.1?
14:13:10 <JeniT> davidwood: there are possibly some Notes to come
14:13:30 <JeniT> s/Notes/minor edits/
14:13:45 <Zakim> +Sandro.a
14:13:50 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:14:04 <JeniT> Arnaud: lead data standards lead at IBM
14:14:11 <JeniT> ... at IBM almost 15 years
14:14:21 <JeniT> ... before that at W3C as staff member
14:14:31 <JeniT> ... I chair the Linked Data Platform WG
14:14:44 <JeniT> ... in existence almost 2 years, current charter expires June
14:14:48 <JeniT> ... trying to finish main spec
14:15:01 <JeniT> ... ended review period with few comments, but significant ones
14:15:12 <JeniT> ... including from timbl, so we couldn't ignore them
14:15:30 <JeniT> ... we finally closed all the issues, editors are trying to implement the resolutions
14:15:38 <JeniT> ... there are significant changes, so we'll go to 2nd last call
14:15:53 <JeniT> ... and there are some people in the group who are questioning some of the functionality in the spec
14:16:03 <JeniT> ... so we're still trying to decide if we can go to 2nd Last Call or not
14:16:12 <JeniT> ... hopefully we'll decide next Monday
14:16:23 <JeniT> PhilA: are you already thinking about LDP2?
14:16:29 <JeniT> Arnaud: yes
14:16:43 <JeniT> PhilA: but getting to Rec by June is going to be tough
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14:16:56 <JeniT> Arnaud: yes, there's no hope of Rec, we might be Proposed Rec
14:17:05 <JeniT> ... it depends on what comments we get
14:17:20 <JeniT> ... and on implementations
14:17:38 <JeniT> ... we have a wish list
14:17:50 <JeniT> ... we have different camps with different use cases
14:17:59 <JeniT> ... and lots of wishes we couldn't address in the time
14:18:05 <JeniT> ... so we had to agree to limit the scope
14:18:14 <JeniT> ... which we did by creating the wish list for LDP2
14:19:02 <JeniT> PhilA: creating a wish list is a useful way to make people happy with scoping
14:19:12 <JeniT> ... would it be helpful to start framing that wish list into a charter?
14:19:24 <JeniT> Arnaud: yes, I'd like to when we get past the Last Call
14:20:11 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
14:20:39 <PhilA> JeniT: I', Tech Director at the Open data Institute and I'm on the W3C TAG, and co-chairing CSV on the Web WG (with DanBri)
14:20:45 <PhilA> ... started end of Jan with Ivan as TC
14:21:14 <PhilA> ... scope is how to supply extra info with CSV files to give context etc. that you currently can't get into CSV
14:21:16 <Zakim> +Alexandre
14:21:34 <PhilA> JeniT: We've got 2 specs being edited. a UCR
14:21:35 <ericP> Zakim, Alexandre is temporarily ericP
14:21:35 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
14:21:45 <PhilA> ... all grounded in real world cases
14:22:09 <PhilA> ... also started work on putting together a model of tabular data - annotated tabular data - that can be expressed as CSV
14:22:21 <PhilA> ... working out requirements before looking at the many alternatives available
14:22:51 <PhilA> ... charter due to June 2015
14:23:25 <PhilA> scribe: JeniT
14:23:37 <JeniT> ericP: I work for W3C, working in Healthcare & Lifesciences Interest Group
14:23:55 <JeniT> ... we're trying to promote uptake of Semweb in Healthcare & Lifesciences
14:24:10 <JeniT> ... been focusing on clinical care standards for data
14:24:15 <JeniT> ... eg electronic health records
14:24:34 <JeniT> ... and clinical trials for the FDA, building ontologies so future clinical trial submissions will be in RDF
14:24:44 <JeniT> ... to make it easy to integrate clinical trial data
14:25:02 <JeniT> ... the Interest Group rarely provides support -- I do most of the work
14:25:41 <JeniT> sandro: I've been taking care of RDF WG for last 2 years
14:25:59 <JeniT> ... now transitioning from semweb work towards decentralised social work
14:26:03 <JeniT> ... redecentralising the web
14:26:08 <JeniT> ... away from Facebook etc
14:26:13 <JeniT> ... we have some research funding
14:26:20 <JeniT> ... LDP & other standards are key on this
14:26:56 <JeniT> ivan: I'm staff contact for CSV on the Web WG, and otherwise am uninteresting
14:27:26 <JeniT> ... not part of this activity, but I'm involved in Force11 which looks at collaborative publishing
14:27:39 <JeniT> ... I co-organised a workshop a couple of years ago
14:27:48 <JeniT> ... I'm in the "Board of Directors" of that stuff
14:28:02 <JeniT> ... we're finalising a set of principles on how to cite datasets etc in scholarly publications
14:28:09 <JeniT> ... with final text published this week or next
14:28:13 <JeniT> ... that's on the side
14:28:20 <JeniT> ... I'm also activity lead for digital publishing
14:28:33 <JeniT> ... there are several areas there that raise issues relevant to this group
14:28:43 <JeniT> ... eg metadata has become a huge issue for publishers
14:28:54 <JeniT> ... the vocabularies are in chaos
14:28:55 <PhilA> -> http://www.force11.org/datacitation Data Citation Principles that Ivan's talking about
14:29:06 <JeniT> ... there are probably three different vocabularies for each term
14:29:21 <JeniT> ... the IG can give an overview of what vocabularies are around and how they're used
14:29:37 <JeniT> ... the other thing is what kind of URIs you use to specific areas within a book
14:29:44 <JeniT> ... vs the book on my machine etc
14:29:52 <JeniT> ... and if there's a URI scheme that's usable for that
14:30:07 <JeniT> ... and issues around annotation, essential in books particularly in the educational market
14:30:16 <JeniT> ... which also relies on an RDF vocabulary
14:30:30 <JeniT> PhilA: there's clearly a lot of overlap there
14:30:47 <JeniT> ... The point of getting together on the phone is to make sure we know what each other are doing
14:30:51 <JeniT> ... and keep an eye on the community
14:31:18 <JeniT> ... what people need, what we should be doing next
14:31:42 <JeniT> ... davidwood, can you summarise your view of how linked data & the RDF world is doing?
14:31:52 <JeniT> ... in the context of the US public sector?
14:32:14 <JeniT> davidwood: general feeling is that Europe is way ahead on the interesting use & funding of linked data projects
14:32:19 <JeniT> ... with the UK well out in front
14:32:40 <JeniT> ... the public sector use in the US has been centred on the environment & on health (HFS)
14:32:48 <JeniT> ... driven by a single individual
14:32:52 <JeniT> ... that project has slowed
14:33:08 <JeniT> ... EPA has been in a morass of bureaucracy
14:33:23 <JeniT> ... they've been stuck on system security bureaucracy for the last 2 years
14:33:59 <JeniT> ... I wrote a developer's guide for linked data, released as an ebook last year, as print in Jan
14:34:05 <JeniT> ... sales in the US have been strong
14:34:21 <JeniT> ... currently Manning's #6 in their best seller list
14:34:29 <ivan> -> David
14:34:29 <ivan> -> David's book: "Linked Data", David Wood, Marsha Zaidman and Luke Ruth, Manning Publications (2013), http://manning.com/dwood/
14:34:45 <JeniT> ... there's quite a bit of activity in China, driven by govt owned agencies
14:34:56 <JeniT> ... there are conflicting messages
14:35:05 <JeniT> ... there's some interest in Brazil, but they're struggling for support
14:35:28 <JeniT> ... I'd say Jeni's group were the leading people on linked data in govt
14:35:53 <davidwood> s/HFS/HHS/
14:35:53 <JeniT> PhilA: yaso, when you talk to people about linked data, what do people ask?
14:36:01 <JeniT> yaso: they ask what data to put on the web
14:36:13 <JeniT> ... 2nd question is how to collect data correctly, when planning to open it
14:36:27 <JeniT> PhilA: does anyone ask about technology?
14:36:46 <JeniT> yaso: yes, about exposing catalogs like CKAN or Socrata or Junar
14:36:54 <JeniT> ... they don't know about URIs or vocabularies
14:37:15 <JeniT> PhilA: we had a talk from a CEO in Palo Alto the other day
14:37:40 <JeniT> ... I asked about whether they'd considered using URIs for eg buildings
14:37:55 <JeniT> ... he said he didn't know what URIs were
14:38:10 <PhilA> scribe: JeniT
14:38:16 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
14:38:43 <PhilA> JeniT: The ODI is trying to support the use of open data. When I talk to devs, almost none of them ever ask for RDF. The only ones that do are academics
14:38:59 <PhilA> ... that puts us in a position. We need to provide data to devs in a way they understand it
14:39:26 <PhilA> ... but building in a tech architecture. We call them URLs for political reasons - reduces barrier to entry
14:39:47 <PhilA> ... normal devs are happy with idea of embedding URLs in data as long as you don't say RDF or Linked Data
14:40:00 <PhilA> ... less religion
14:40:01 <davidwood> +1 to URLs over URIs.  That works for me, too.
14:40:27 <PhilA> JeniT: Hence interest in CSV, tabular data etc
14:40:44 <JeniT> ScribeNick: JeniT
14:40:54 <JeniT> PhilA: The data activity was put together to try to address that
14:41:06 <JeniT> ... Arnaud, you represent big business, how do you see the world?
14:41:06 <ericP> actually, best practice would entail a new term: IRL
14:41:10 <davidwood> People seem to know URLs, but not IRIs, URIs, URI-references, etc.
14:41:43 <JeniT> Arnaud: IBM is very big
14:41:59 <JeniT> ... data is a big thing at the moment eg big data, data analysis, huge amount of activity
14:42:11 <JeniT> ... IBM Watson has a whole division which builds on semantic technologies
14:42:19 <JeniT> ... the Watson engine is fed with things like DBPedia
14:42:26 <JeniT> ... there is interest in linked data from that point of view
14:42:45 <JeniT> ... we always have people in IBM interested in every technology, because we're big
14:43:02 <JeniT> ... IBM is technology agnostic, we'll do whatever the customer wants
14:43:15 <JeniT> ... we haven't made a decision to adopt & push linked data
14:43:32 <JeniT> ... we have groups who have embarked on linked data
14:43:57 <JeniT> ... linked data is big for some groups at IBM
14:44:16 <JeniT> ... the IM (?) group doesn't see much demand
14:44:29 <JeniT> ... the DB2 group decided to add linked data on their database
14:44:36 <JeniT> ... and there hasn't been much uptake
14:44:41 <JeniT> ... customers don't really care much
14:45:12 <JeniT> ericP: IBM doesn't have the greatest history of marketing: do Healthcare & Lifesciences communities know about this?
14:45:18 <JeniT> ... they always go to Oracle
14:45:36 <JeniT> Arnaud: tbh Oracle is a better choice in this regard
14:45:51 <JeniT> ... so the question of open data
14:46:06 <JeniT> ... IBM gets a bunch of requests asking for help complying with the mandate to open data
14:46:11 <JeniT> ... that is significant
14:46:25 <JeniT> ... but customers don't care about which technology is used, so long as they comply with these mandates
14:46:48 <JeniT> PhilA: It sounds as if, if you talk to some people and include "RDF" & "linked data" then some people will be turned off
14:46:56 <JeniT> ... some won't know what you're talking about
14:47:00 <JeniT> ... we have a marketing problem
14:47:16 <JeniT> ... yet here we are trying to bring the benefits of this to these people whether they want it or not
14:47:35 <JeniT> ... my underlying question today is, how can we address this?
14:47:47 <JeniT> ... and is there something we need to standardise now?
14:48:04 <JeniT> ... it's a wider question about W3C's role too
14:48:09 <davidwood> q+ to suggest that not all is bleak; there are well defined use cases
14:48:25 <JeniT> Guus: I'm not sure it's a marketing problem
14:48:37 <JeniT> ... even in social conversations, people ask about big data & data transparency
14:48:44 <JeniT> ... I think it's about how you market it
14:48:50 <JeniT> PhilA: should we talk about big data instead?
14:49:03 <PhilA> ack davidwood
14:49:03 <Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to suggest that not all is bleak; there are well defined use cases
14:49:10 <JeniT> Guus: it's all data: how you make it available is a theme & we should make sure we're part of that
14:49:32 <JeniT> davidwood: I'm giving a tutorial today at a conference on Healthcare & Lifesciences
14:49:39 <JeniT> ... the people come from pharma companies
14:49:55 <JeniT> ... they're all looking outside mainstream technologies
14:50:03 <JeniT> ... there are pockets of these kinds of use cases
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14:50:09 <JeniT> ... where there are combinatorial data needs
14:50:13 <yatil> yatil has left #dacg
14:50:24 <JeniT> ... if we apply linked data to these industries, we're very successful
14:50:37 <JeniT> ... it's not mainstream
14:50:48 <JeniT> ... the big data meme has taken off, because of clever marketing
14:51:29 <Guus> in the application area I work in (libraries, musea, archives) publishing data on the Web is a central issue
14:51:31 <JeniT> ... if I say that the work that we do is part of big data or data transparency or open data, we can have a conversation
14:52:15 <JeniT> PhilA: Eric & I are speaking to Tom Baker from DCMI about RDF validation / shape expressions etc
14:52:48 <JeniT> ericP: Dublin Core in 2008 did a description set profile, way of saying what properties you're expecting
14:53:01 <JeniT> ... associates a set of properties with a shape, then say a node is a shape
14:53:25 <JeniT> ... I extended the expressivity for shape expressions
14:53:40 <JeniT> ... we looked at the expressivity of DSP & shape expressions
14:54:02 <JeniT> PhilA: given that and the workshop in September might lead to a WG
14:54:13 <JeniT> ericP: that's our expectation, with Arnaud
14:54:32 <JeniT> Arnaud: we've submitted a spec, with some co-submitters
14:54:59 <JeniT> ... we hope to have a WG created for that, and the workshop concluded with that recommendation
14:55:17 <JeniT> PhilA: there's a bit more community building to do
14:55:34 <JeniT> ericP: the DCMI work will provide use cases & W3C will do spec design & test cases
14:55:54 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/2014/03/lgd/ LGD14
14:55:55 <JeniT> PhilA: the other thing coming up is the linking geospatial data workshop next week
14:56:29 <JeniT> ... we don't know what the outcome will be, but it looks like it could lead to a WG with participation from OGC, jointly branded
14:56:35 <JeniT> ... but we don't know
14:57:07 <JeniT> JeniT: to do what?
14:57:18 <JeniT> PhilA: maybe best practices
14:57:22 <JeniT> ... but I don't know
14:57:50 <JeniT> ... usually when a workshop starts, you have a pretty good idea about what's going to come out, but this time not
14:58:00 <JeniT> ... there's lots of people going to be there from a number of communities
14:58:25 <JeniT> ... if something else comes up that we should be looking at, please tell us
14:58:36 <JeniT> ... there are chairs with nothing to do!
14:59:02 <JeniT> ... please tell me if this call isn't useful
14:59:12 <JeniT> ... I propose we do these monthly
14:59:48 <JeniT> ... I suggest 9am Boston time every month
15:00:45 <JeniT> ... if they were scheduled every other week with the expectation that they were frequently cancelled, is that more useful than every month
15:01:28 <Zakim> -Sandro.a
15:01:29 <Zakim> -David_Wood
15:01:29 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:01:30 <Zakim> -yaso
15:01:31 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
15:01:32 <Zakim> -PhilA
15:01:33 <Zakim> -JeniT
15:01:34 <Zakim> -ivan
15:01:44 <Zakim> -ericP
15:01:45 <Zakim> Team_(dacg)13:57Z has ended
15:01:45 <Zakim> Attendees were PhilA, Guus_Schreiber, David_Wood, Arnaud, JeniT, Sandro, ivan, caroline_, yaso, ericP
15:01:57 <PhilA> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:08 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/26-dacg-minutes.html PhilA
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