IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-02-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

22:48:30 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/24-html-a11y-irc
22:48:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
22:48:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
22:48:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
22:48:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
22:48:35 [trackbot]
Date: 24 February 2014
22:54:31 [MarkS]
zakim, clear agenda
22:54:31 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
22:54:40 [MarkS]
Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
22:54:40 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
22:54:40 [MarkS]
Chair: MarkS
22:54:40 [MarkS]
agenda+ Document required steps and estimated timeline for each of the 4 options for moving forward
22:54:41 [MarkS]
agenda+ Begin discussions on bringing Hit Regions into L1 spec
22:54:42 [MarkS]
agenda+ Possible Testing and/or Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 7-9
22:54:45 [MarkS]
agenda+ Next Meeting
22:57:00 [Zakim]
WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has now started
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+ +1.617.319.aaaa
22:57:20 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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22:57:25 [MarkS]
zakim, aaaa is MarkS
22:57:25 [Zakim]
+MarkS; got it
22:57:44 [MarkS]
agenda?
22:58:06 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:58:16 [Zakim]
+??P2
22:59:11 [MarkS]
zakim, ??P2 is Janina
22:59:11 [Zakim]
+Janina; got it
22:59:25 [jaymunro]
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+cabanier
23:00:49 [plh]
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23:00:57 [Zakim]
+Plh
23:01:08 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
23:01:26 [jaymunro]
zakim, microsoft has me
23:01:26 [Zakim]
+jaymunro; got it
23:02:23 [MarkS]
agenda?
23:02:23 [MarkS]
zakim, agenda?
23:02:25 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
23:02:27 [Zakim]
1. Document required steps and estimated timeline for each of the 4 options for moving forward [from MarkS]
23:02:27 [Zakim]
2. Begin discussions on bringing Hit Regions into L1 spec [from MarkS]
23:02:27 [Zakim]
3. Possible Testing and/or Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 7-9 [from MarkS]
23:02:27 [Zakim]
4. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
23:04:10 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
23:04:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Document required steps and estimated timeline for each of the 4 options for moving forward" taken up [from MarkS]
23:06:15 [MarkS]
RC: I submitted my changes last week, but there was a memory leak, so the changes were reverted.
23:06:25 [MarkS]
...I hope to get it back in tomorrow
23:07:19 [MarkS]
MS: It would be great if you could email around a private build with a demo file so we can evaluate the solution
23:08:10 [MarkS]
RC: there is no visual indicator, its only when you focus on the fallback elements
23:08:33 [MarkS]
PLH: You implemented the Hit Region API that was in Canvas earlier
23:08:37 [MarkS]
RC: I small subset
23:09:10 [MarkS]
s/I/A
23:09:26 [MarkS]
RC: I want to know if ?? is necessary
23:10:04 [MarkS]
RS: If you go with Hit Regions, on mobile, if you put your finger over it, you would be able to hear it talk. If you don't have Hit Testing in there, it won't be able to do that
23:10:23 [MarkS]
RC: Is that absolutely necessary for this version
23:10:36 [MarkS]
RS: It makes it easier to do testing, but I don't think its critical. You want to give it a location at the very least.
23:11:00 [MarkS]
RC: The hit testing part won't be brought into Level 1
23:11:11 [paulc_]
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23:11:14 [MarkS]
RS: Do you think this is a good interim step for the WHAT WG?
23:11:17 [paulc_]
zakim, what is the code?
23:11:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc_
23:11:31 [MarkS]
RC: I need to know if this solution is good enough for accessibility
23:11:38 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
23:11:50 [paulc_]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
23:11:50 [Zakim]
+paulc_; got it
23:12:10 [MarkS]
...you give it a dictionary, specify the fallback elements, and give it an ID. There is a removeHitRegion that removes the region from the canvas
23:13:02 [MarkS]
RS: I think its good enough, if you have the ability to draw the ring with drawFocus and use Hit Regions to specify the location
23:13:20 [plh]
MS: I'd like to see implementations and tests before I can confirm
23:13:24 [MarkS]
RS: Can we get this in chrome like that?
23:13:44 [MarkS]
RC: We're not inventing something new.
23:14:18 [MarkS]
RS: We need to have two implementations. Not sure when Microsoft can get to this. I think we need to make sure Dominic is on the same page, that we need these two functions.
23:15:33 [MarkS]
RS: Send a note to dominic, get confirmation that he likes this approach. Then we can start working on our spec. We will be able to stay in sync that way.
23:16:26 [MarkS]
MS: Would be great if Rich could email Dominic, and CC me on it.
23:16:35 [MarkS]
RS: So we will be adding part of Hit RegionsRC:
23:16:49 [MarkS]
RC: Hit Regions will take an optional ID and an element
23:17:05 [MarkS]
PLH: Another thing to do is to edit the spec to bring it up to date with this thinking
23:17:56 [MarkS]
JM: If you can identify from a previous Version or the Nightly, just highlight what needs to go back in there, I can make it fit.
23:18:06 [MarkS]
...drawFocusIfNeeded?
23:18:18 [MarkS]
RC: dFIN stays in, but we get rid of step 3
23:19:05 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/master/#hit-regions
23:19:51 [MarkS]
PLH: so we are adding back addHitRegion and removeHitRegion
23:20:01 [MarkS]
RC: yes, part of it won't be implemented
23:20:10 [MarkS]
PLH: Which part won't be implemented
23:20:32 [MarkS]
RC: only control and ID are implemented
23:20:43 [plh]
s/ID/id/
23:21:10 [MarkS]
JM: So we are going to put in addHiRegion(ID,control)
23:21:26 [MarkS]
...what about hit regions can be used fro a variety of purposes
23:21:46 [JatinderMann]
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23:21:54 [MarkS]
RC: We have to make sure we are compatible moving forward
23:22:02 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
23:22:13 [JatinderMann]
present+ JatinderMann
23:22:26 [MarkS]
RC: Would it be OK if we put the entire thing in there for now and then mark parts of it at Risk?
23:22:33 [MarkS]
PLH: I was thinking of this
23:22:59 [MarkS]
RC: i would prefer if you copy everything for now, with certain parts at risk
23:23:34 [MarkS]
JMann: seems like everyone wants to get this into L1
23:24:00 [MarkS]
...wonder if its possible to get Hit Regions into L1 and in the case that implementers can't get it implemented in time we can fall back to a 1.1
23:25:57 [MarkS]
JMann: I think we should reach out to Chrome and Firefox to get a commitment and a date. Then we would need to follow up with Paul and the HTML WG to get a date for getting this work done.
23:26:26 [MarkS]
PC: You might get different answers from the TF and the WG.
23:26:30 [MarkS]
JMann: Would be great to find out if this is weeks or months.
23:27:10 [MarkS]
PC: you won't get a ruling from the chairs on what the schedule is.
23:27:43 [MarkS]
...Should collect all the data you can, then go back to the TF with that info and they can choose the path they want to take and then get that back to the WG.
23:28:21 [MarkS]
JS: I agree with Paul. 6 months is not going to cut it. We need to get a better estimate from implementers.
23:29:28 [MarkS]
JMann: I don't think we should dump all of hit regions, just the minimal part that we know we can deliver
23:29:37 [MarkS]
JS: I agree with that as well.
23:29:49 [MarkS]
...it makes it less clear what we want to do with 1.0
23:31:21 [MarkS]
JMann: Its not "at risk" some of these things just aren't going to happen, like Path
23:31:42 [MarkS]
...is the goal to have them implement the entire Path object?
23:31:49 [MarkS]
RC: I think its already in Chrome
23:32:38 [MarkS]
JS: So, we want time to think Path and other "at-risk" things through. Those are still an open discussion.
23:32:53 [MarkS]
...If FF and Chrome implement those, then great
23:33:31 [MarkS]
PC: So I hear that you want to ask Mozilla and Chrome what they plan on implementing, and then map those against the a11y requirements and if that passes the bar, that is what you want to put into the proposed LC document.
23:34:16 [MarkS]
...instead of asking Jay or Jatinder, maybe we should be committing all of our resources to find out what they are going to implement. If they disagree on some parts, this team might need to compromise on those.
23:34:25 [MarkS]
...then only bring the minimal subset of that back into L1
23:34:37 [MarkS]
[agreement]
23:35:23 [MarkS]
Need to talk to Dominic and Alexander Surkov
23:35:46 [MarkS]
JMann: might be good to have a convo off the list to get their feedback
23:37:10 [MarkS]
agenda?
23:37:23 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 1
23:37:23 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Document required steps and estimated timeline for each of the 4 options for moving forward, closed
23:37:25 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
23:37:25 [Zakim]
2. Begin discussions on bringing Hit Regions into L1 spec [from MarkS]
23:37:26 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 2
23:37:26 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Begin discussions on bringing Hit Regions into L1 spec, closed
23:37:26 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
23:37:26 [Zakim]
3. Possible Testing and/or Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 7-9 [from MarkS]
23:37:33 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 3
23:37:33 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Possible Testing and/or Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 7-9" taken up [from MarkS]
23:38:50 [MarkS]
JS: Hopefully by then we will have more progress. might be a good opportunity to get some testing done?
23:39:27 [MarkS]
JMann: I will most likely be there
23:39:42 [MarkS]
JM: I'm just waiting to see if my travel gets approved
23:39:58 [MarkS]
RS: I will be out of of the country
23:40:10 [MarkS]
RC: I will ask
23:40:33 [MarkS]
JS: we could possibly grab dominic as well
23:41:23 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
23:41:23 [Zakim]
I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, MarkS
23:41:40 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
23:41:41 [Zakim]
-cabanier
23:41:41 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
23:41:42 [Zakim]
-Plh
23:41:42 [Zakim]
-MarkS
23:41:44 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
23:41:47 [Zakim]
-Janina
00:04:20 [Zakim]
-paulc_
00:04:21 [Zakim]
WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended
00:04:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.617.319.aaaa, MarkS, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina, cabanier, Plh, jaymunro, [Microsoft], paulc_
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02:06:09 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
02:06:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
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