15:07:18 RRSAgent has joined #dpub 15:07:18 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/24-dpub-irc 15:07:20 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:07:20 Zakim has joined #dpub 15:07:22 Zakim, this will be dpub 15:07:22 ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 53 minutes 15:07:23 Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference 15:07:23 Date: 24 February 2014 15:31:49 mgylling has joined #dpub 15:38:25 Regrets: Julie_Morris_BISG, laudrain 15:43:59 Regrets: Julie_Morris_BISG, laudrain, Sharad Garg 15:50:20 tmichel has joined #dpub 15:57:11 gcapiel has joined #dpub 15:57:29 Vlad has joined #dpub 15:58:04 philm has joined #dpub 15:58:17 DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started 15:58:24 +Vlad 15:58:31 +??P24 15:58:44 Za 15:58:56 fjh has joined #dpub 15:59:04 +??P26 15:59:12 zakim, code? 15:59:12 the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan 15:59:15 Zakim, ??P26 JS 15:59:15 I don't understand '??P26 JS', gcapiel 15:59:21 Zakim, ??p26 is me 15:59:21 +mgylling; got it 15:59:32 + +1.212.364.aaaa 15:59:36 Zakim, ??P24 is me 15:59:36 +gcapiel; got it 15:59:42 +Stearns 15:59:51 +dauwhe 16:00:17 Regrets: Julie_Morris_BISG, laudrain, Sharad Garg, Bert 16:00:28 tzviya has joined #dpub 16:00:50 azaroth has joined #DPUB 16:00:55 +Ivan 16:01:05 + +1.505.665.aabb 16:01:17 zakim, aabb is me 16:01:17 +azaroth; got it 16:01:44 + +1.484.278.aacc 16:01:55 zakim, aacc is me 16:01:55 +tzviya; got it 16:01:57 +Liam 16:02:01 +??P0 16:02:08 zakim, ??P0 is me 16:02:09 +tmichel; got it 16:02:10 zakim, mute me 16:02:10 tzviya should now be muted 16:02:14 -Liam 16:02:27 +Liam 16:02:42 Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub 16:03:28 scribenick: dauwhe 16:03:31 scribe: dauwhe_ 16:03:31 I'm working from someone else's house so i'll have to be on mute for most of the time 16:03:43 +AWK 16:03:59 + +1.734.904.aadd 16:04:07 mgylling: after calls on singular topics, time for summaries today. 16:04:19 ... want next steps and timelines 16:04:22 +[IPcaller] 16:04:23 zakim, IPcaller is me 16:04:23 +fjh; got it 16:04:32 ... more concrete in getting to next steps in each efforts 16:04:32 dshkolnik has joined #dpub 16:04:42 ... need to approve minutes 16:04:55 ... comments on minutes? 16:04:59 Zakim, mute me 16:04:59 sorry, dshkolnik, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 16:05:01 ... last weeks minutes are approved. 16:05:06 brady_duga has joined #dpub 16:05:16 ... were Jan. 27 minutes approved? 16:05:22 Ivan: no meeting last week 16:05:27 the 37 Jan minutes were not approved at last meeting 16:05:31 mgylling: it was two weeks ago 16:05:43 +duga 16:05:44 s/37/27/ 16:05:45 ... minutes of january 27 still not approved 16:06:01 ... markus has submitted corrections 16:06:06 ... OK to approve? 16:06:07 -AWK 16:06:12 q+ 16:06:15 ... minutes are approved. Hooray! 16:06:27 +AWK 16:06:39 Zakim, AWK is dshkolnik 16:06:39 +dshkolnik; got it 16:06:45 Zakim, mute me 16:06:45 dshkolnik should now be muted 16:06:50 Ivan: admin note: in two weeks, there will be a two-week period where Europe and US will differ on daylight savings time. 16:07:12 ... calls will be at same time for US residents 16:07:20 .... but will be one hour earlier for everyone in Europe 16:07:30 ... I will send out an email to warn people of this change 16:07:38 ... but expect chaos. 16:08:25 ... UTC for W3C is irrelevant. Zero time is in Cambridge (our fair city). 16:08:44 mgylling: in agenda, lots of task forces. We'll go through one by one. 16:08:55 s/Cambridge/Cambridge, US/ 16:08:58 ... summarize recent activity, near term plans, and timlines 16:09:13 ... record commitments for next steps, which will vary by task force. 16:09:18 TomDN has joined #dpub 16:09:31 +[Ugent] 16:09:35 ... starting with Dave and LatinReq 16:09:41 Zakim, Ugent is me 16:09:41 +TomDN; got it 16:09:46 scribe: mgylling 16:09:56 Zakim, mute me 16:09:56 TomDN should now be muted 16:10:28 Dave: not much recent activity, dude to day job and big push on CSS side (CSS Paged Media). So things have been quiet on LatinReq. 16:10:51 Dave: next step is to flesh out the drop caps section, will help ebook industry quite a bit 16:10:59 s/dude/due/ 16:11:29 Dave: Ben Ko has been working on table layout, but also limited due to day job. Not sure on his timing 16:12:13 Markus: what is needed to publish a public draft? 16:13:02 Dave: clear that this document is going to evolve, part of me thinks we can publish a draft at any time. Already used as referenced in CSSWG, to illustrate points. Would be nice to have a more official status 16:13:22 Dave: thinks it falls under W3C WG draft at this point 16:13:35 q+ 16:14:35 Markus: astearns has been contributing about grids and stuff as well, but no recent discussion. 16:15:10 astearns: I've mostly been working on grids 16:15:23 ... but may not be able to contribute on adaptive layout for a while 16:15:26 I am 16:15:30 asterans: haven't done anything re adaptive layout, for now baseline grid, not sure when I will have time to contribute re adaptive. Maybe Dimitri has something to contribute? 16:15:32 Zakim, unmute me 16:15:32 dshkolnik should no longer be muted 16:15:36 ... Dimitry may be able to contribute, possibly 16:16:03 dshkolnik: don't yet have specific requirements 16:16:05 dshkolnik: trying to get information specific for magazine publishers, and frankly we don't see any specific requirements 16:16:16 q later 16:16:47 mgylling: don't wait for adaptive layout info 16:16:56 +1 16:16:57 ... we can evolve document in time 16:16:59 ack ivan 16:17:08 ack liam 16:17:08 liam, you wanted to share notes about adaptive layout - content and constraints 16:17:10 Ivan: Liam firs 16:17:12 Zakim, mute me 16:17:12 dshkolnik should now be muted 16:17:29 liam: did notes about adaptive layout when I did XSL-FO 16:17:35 ... the idea of alternate content 16:17:59 ... depending on space, use shorter chapter title in running head if full title doesn't fit 16:18:12 ... layout constraints, which has been discussed around regions 16:18:27 ... some region use cases are about adaptive layout 16:18:34 ... I'm happy to share my notes 16:18:44 scribe: dauwhe_ 16:18:51 ... agree we should go forward and publish 16:19:05 mgylling: adaptive content and layout are siblings 16:19:32 ... trying to make sure that the IG produces use cases that serve publisher's needs 16:20:04 ... when would corpus of requirements for adaptive layout be needed by CSSWG for regions? 16:20:13 Ivan: for mechanics 16:20:20 ... this would be our first published document 16:20:32 ... publishing at W3C happens on Tuesdays and Thursdays 16:20:57 ... before we do anything, Ivan will need to request an official short name, which is latinreq 16:21:05 ... must officially register that shortname 16:21:20 ... it's good that document is ready two=three days before pub date 16:21:32 ... we can decide on time later 16:21:40 ... I do not travel at all in March 16:21:49 I am also around for publication 16:22:18 ... ReSpec handles most problems that come up 16:22:32 with respec we should be set ... validation and publication rules 16:23:23 mgylling: sounds good. Is your ambition to flesh out drop caps and table layout before pub? 16:23:29 dauwhe: I'll think about that. 16:23:42 mgylling: shall we move on? Any more questions about latinreq? 16:23:45 Static copy of Anno use cases: http://www.openannotation.org/usecases.html 16:23:50 ... Rob with annotations 16:24:03 azaroth: been away recently 16:24:26 ... there is a version of use cases posted at above link, 80% complete 16:24:32 ... done with respec 16:24:36 ... still need some work 16:24:44 + +1.609.216.aaee 16:24:49 ... talked with Ivan and Markus 16:24:59 .... todo item is that short name needs to be changed 16:25:10 ... to something like annotation use cases 16:25:13 ... comments welcome 16:25:29 q+ 16:25:36 ... we are moving ahead with various W3C efforts like workshop in April 16:25:43 ... and discussing charter for Annotation WG 16:25:58 mgylling: time and next steps? 16:26:13 ... 80% complete, once you reach 100%, when? 16:26:29 .azaroth: done by next week 16:26:47 Ivan: if you feel it's 100% we can publish at note 16:27:02 ... usually we publish as Working Draft, asking for comments from community 16:27:16 ... better to publish as WD to encourage comments 16:27:39 ... in this case, try to publish together with latinreq, good that we publish several docs 16:27:47 ... I think this can be done. So why not? 16:27:57 +JeanKaplansky 16:28:00 ... keep on open annotation, or move to github? 16:28:06 azaroth: can live anywhere. 16:28:24 Ivan: prefer to put it on github 16:28:37 .... makes it easier for others to contribute 16:28:48 ... if it's outside GitHub, that may create future difficulties 16:29:00 azaroth: not a problem 16:29:16 mgylling: publishing a draft sounds good. 16:29:19 azaroth: +1 16:29:27 mgylling: no issues with charter? 16:29:38 Ivan: charter will be finalized after workshop. 16:29:48 ... by time WG starts, probably be end of summer 16:29:57 ... OK if it's a final note when WG starts. 16:30:01 mgylling: great. 16:30:08 ... one more week to reach 100% 16:30:18 ... Ivan wants both published simultaneously 16:30:26 ... leads me back to Dave Cramer 16:30:35 ... next Monday to decide? Is that possible? 16:30:57 dauwhe: ok to decide next monday. 16:31:00 q? 16:31:04 mgylling: more questions on annotations? 16:31:08 ack ivan 16:31:20 regrets+ Liza 16:31:36 mgylling: what's next? DOM pagination, with no leader 16:31:46 ... discussed two weeks ago when I was not on the call 16:31:56 ... others are better equipped to summarize 16:32:17 brady_duga: had action item to review use cases 16:32:26 ... I'm only a week late; hopefully be next week 16:32:44 mgylling: you were looking for a task force lead. Any ideas yet? 16:32:57 brady_duga: don't remember who said what. 16:33:23 Ivan: Liza may ask someone at ??? University, more to join the group than to find a chair 16:33:36 s/???/Oxford/ 16:34:21 mgylling: use cases are reading-system-centric, should look at from content producer perspective 16:34:25 weren't we going to ask Random House for use cases? 16:34:33 ... that's one motivation to reach out to Oxford 16:34:38 Jeank has joined #dpub 16:34:47 ... not much more we can do with Pagination DOM today. Am I missing something? No 16:34:55 ... moving on to Bill and Madi 16:35:29 Bill_Kasdorf: not an orphaned group, just a neglectful parent. EDUPUB and EPUB3 Test Suite have taken lots of time 16:35:44 ... progress so far due to Ivan, who restructured wiki 16:35:57 ... Ivan, Luc, and Phil have discussed issues on Wiki 16:36:21 ... quick summary: fundamental existential question of whether this IG is the right place to discuss these issues 16:36:28 ... consensus is that this is the right place 16:36:39 ... start creating concrete use cases 16:36:44 ... there are only two so far 16:36:52 ... overarching issue is vocabulary 16:36:59 ... I said that was slippery slope 16:37:05 ... there are a kazillion vocabularies 16:37:17 ... people dive into vocabularies too easily 16:37:31 ... having a guide to vocabularies has positive support 16:37:55 ... resources about resources: documents about all these vocabularies 16:38:02 ... developing such a guide would be useful 16:38:27 ... I'll be overseas next week, so won't be able to contribute for a while 16:38:41 ... but after that trip, I'll have some time. Will make strong push 16:39:01 ... tasks: 1. develop description of the "guide to vocabularies" 16:39:07 ... 2. Add use cases 16:39:27 mgylling: 2nd half of march is when we expect you to ramp up? 16:39:37 Bill_Kasdorf: back on March 10. 16:40:09 q? 16:40:10 mgylling: OK. Ivan and others, do you have any comments? 16:40:21 Ivan: what's important is to get more use cases from publishers. 16:40:24 ... I can't do that. 16:40:44 ... most earlier discussion is more on the technology side, rather thna the publisher side 16:41:05 Bill_Kasdorf: when I said use cases, it needs to be from publishers 16:41:20 ... this particular group needs to take into account annotations and accessibility 16:41:28 ... metadata is involved in both those areas 16:41:49 ... if we come up with accessibility use cases, or annotations use cases, they should stay in those groups 16:41:53 ... there will be overlap 16:42:13 Ivan: use cases may apply to several task forces 16:42:33 Bill_Kasdorf: don't want to dupllicate effort 16:42:40 s/dupllicate/duplicate/ 16:43:00 mgyling: do you want to devote a call to your task force? 16:43:12 s/mgyling/mgylling/ 16:43:30 Bill_Kasdorf: when's optimal time for that? Won't be ready by 10th. Maybe on the 17th? 16:43:43 ... it's not a reporting as much an interactive session 16:43:59 mgylling: OK to record March 17 as call devoted to metadata task force? 16:44:05 Bill_Kasdorf: OK. 16:44:09 mgylling: done. 16:44:14 ... any nore questions on metadata? 16:44:22 ... moving on. Tzviya: 16:44:25 Zkim, unmute me 16:44:31 tzviya: 16:44:32 zakim, unmite me 16:44:32 I don't understand 'unmite me', tzviya 16:44:41 zakim, umute me 16:44:41 I don't understand 'umute me', tzviya 16:44:50 zakim, unmute me 16:44:50 tzviya should no longer be muted 16:44:53 :) 16:44:56 ... [having trouble spelling] 16:45:19 ... Behavioural UI has suffered from group neglect 16:45:25 ... haven't gotten very far 16:45:38 ... how much broad interest is there in this area? 16:46:09 ... i'd like to gauge how much interest there is 16:46:42 ... not a lot of activity around the use cases 16:46:44 q+ 16:46:50 ack ivan 16:47:02 -duga 16:47:05 Ivan: my understanding based on SLC conversations 16:47:18 ... play on the role attribute and how it's used in HTML 16:47:21 q+ 16:47:28 ... joint work between IG and ARIA 16:47:38 ... Rich is not here today 16:48:07 ... we should get joint meeting with ARIA, what should be done, what can be done, how can this group help 16:48:29 ... invite on that call co-chair of HTML working group 16:48:43 tzviya: that touches on an area we haven't discussed 16:49:11 ... aria roles and epub:type are often for structural elements, chapter and preface 16:49:22 ... being expanded for things that have behaviour like indexes 16:49:32 ... our use cases mostly involve behavioural intent 16:49:43 ... like when user wants to adjust font family 16:49:51 ... but monospace code should not change fonts 16:49:58 ... would ARIA help with this? 16:50:14 ... there may be two parts: ARIA stuff and behavioural UI 16:50:21 Ivan: don't have an answer 16:50:28 ... need to talk with ARIA people. 16:50:37 ... ARIA was originally done for accessibility 16:50:58 ... the usage of role may evolve beyond the original scope 16:51:04 ... but we need to ask them 16:51:10 tzviya: OK 16:51:32 mgylling: the role attribute discussion is not the only thing going on there, but something we need to engage in 16:51:41 ... your task force is the place to do this 16:52:03 ... it might be about redesigning parts of epub to make more compliant with OWP 16:52:19 ... perhaps meet with 1 or 2 of the editors, then HTML chairs 16:52:24 tzviya: I agree 16:52:31 q? 16:52:33 Ivan: should I set up a Doodle? 16:52:55 Ivan: I need list of people who should be on the call? 16:53:15 mgylling: Ivan, Markus, Tzviya, Rich, Ted, Robin, Gerardo 16:53:36 gcapiel: we've been having parallel discussion about using ARIA roles in SVG 16:53:50 for doodle list also: Mark Hakkinen 16:53:51 ... we met at EDUPUB to talk about this; there's a wiki I can reference 16:54:03 ... the same idea has application here 16:54:14 ... I can attend the call, or can be represented by Rich 16:54:19 Ivan: I will put you on the list 16:54:31 mgylling: five minutes to go and lots of task forces to cover 16:54:36 q- 16:54:47 ... accessibility: next steps etc 16:55:06 gcapiel: Rich and I and Mark H. and shepazou had about alternative modalities 16:55:18 ... right before XML discussed with Daniel Weck about SMIL 16:55:32 ... support for web platform ??? 16:55:40 ... some prior efforts that didn't go anywhere 16:55:47 ... that's a big area that hasn't been covered 16:55:52 ... on annotations 16:56:10 ... added some stuff, will go deeper as I think about iAnnotate event 16:56:23 ... we should loop in with Mark H re CSS speech use cases 16:56:35 ... there is a spec, but browser support is week 16:56:38 s/week/weak/ 16:57:02 mgylling: meeting with Suzanne, and Sue Fowler 16:57:13 ... three minutes to go 16:57:34 Jeank: Math is a poor red-headed step-orphan-child 16:57:48 ... our use case count has not gone up 16:57:52 ... we could find more 16:58:06 ... we'd like more use cases from actual publisher 16:58:18 ... I can solicit them, but I need to know which kinds of publishers 16:58:22 ... journal or book? 16:58:25 s/right before XML/right before christmas 16:58:28 +1 to liam 16:58:31 ... probably get more from Journal publishers 16:58:48 ... some stuff happening in Math and accessibility 16:58:59 Note that there is vastly more journal content online than book content, which is mainly EPUB etc. 16:59:04 ... math should be accessible! 16:59:25 ... need some time to get updated use cases, and then meet with accessibility group 16:59:41 mgylling: do you have a name of who you can work with re accesibility? 16:59:48 Jeank: I would start with gcapiel 17:00:04 ... Design Science is also working on accessible math, which is good 17:00:22 q? 17:00:23 ... I have at least two sources to talk about accessible 17:00:42 tzviya: do you want examples from chemistry? 17:00:53 ... CML is unsupported 17:01:00 Jeank: we've been using math for that 17:01:11 mgylling: concrete action item for Tzviya 17:01:44 mgylling: we should clarify scope here for deliverables 17:01:53 ... same holds true for Tzviya's group 17:02:09 ... focus on accessibility with Math and Chemistry is good 17:02:21 ... any final comments or questions? Great. Thank you all. 17:02:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:02:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/24-dpub-minutes.html tmichel 17:02:37 ... next week we'll push buttons to publish annotations and latinreq 17:02:52 -gcapiel 17:02:55 -fjh 17:02:58 Thanks all :) 17:02:58 bye 17:02:58 next meeting: next week 17:03:02 -dshkolnik 17:03:02 - +1.212.364.aaaa 17:03:03 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:03:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/24-dpub-minutes.html tmichel 17:03:04 -tzviya 17:03:04 -azaroth 17:03:05 - +1.734.904.aadd 17:03:05 -TomDN 17:03:05 -JeanKaplansky 17:03:05 -Stearns 17:03:07 - +1.609.216.aaee 17:03:22 -Liam 17:03:54 -dauwhe 17:04:26 brady_duga has joined #dpub 17:07:24 -mgylling 17:07:25 -tmichel 17:07:28 -Ivan 17:07:37 -Vlad 17:07:39 DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended 17:07:39 Attendees were Vlad, mgylling, +1.212.364.aaaa, gcapiel, Stearns, dauwhe, Ivan, +1.505.665.aabb, azaroth, +1.484.278.aacc, tzviya, Liam, tmichel, +1.734.904.aadd, fjh, duga, 17:07:39 ... dshkolnik, TomDN, +1.609.216.aaee, JeanKaplansky 17:07:40 mgylling has left #dpub 18:42:48 gcapiel has joined #dpub 19:32:22 Zakim has left #dpub