15:44:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:44:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-irc
15:44:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:44:12 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:44:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:44:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 44 minutes ago
15:44:15 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:44:15 <trackbot> Date: 20 February 2014
15:44:25 <janina> agenda?
15:45:27 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:45:27 <janina> Chair: Janina
15:45:27 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:45:30 <janina> agenda+ HTML & Web Apps F2F--Shall TF meet?  http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda
15:45:33 <janina> agenda+ Longdesc Update [See Below]
15:45:36 <janina> agenda+ Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps [See Below]
15:45:38 <janina> agenda+ Alt Guidance & Next Steps [See Below]
15:45:41 <janina> agenda+ Next "Using ARIA in HTML" Heartbeat http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Feb/0050.html
15:45:44 <janina> agenda+ Reviving and Expanding Media Subteam http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Feb/0049.html
15:45:47 <janina> agenda+ Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [see below]
15:45:49 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:45:52 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:45:55 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:48:05 <janina>  regrets: Adrian_Roselli
15:52:43 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
15:52:50 <Zakim> +??P0
15:52:59 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is me
15:52:59 <Zakim> +janina; got it
15:53:07 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
15:53:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:59:51 <Zakim> +Mark_Sadecki
16:00:53 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
16:00:54 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
16:01:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:00 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:02:10 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:02:11 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
16:02:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:03:11 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:03:12 <Zakim> +JF
16:03:13 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:04:03 <Zakim> +Judy
16:04:11 <LJWatson> scribe: Léonie Watson
16:04:24 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
16:04:24 <Zakim> agendum 2. "HTML & Web Apps F2F--Shall TF meet?  http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda" taken up [from janina]
16:04:58 <JatinderMann> JatinderMann has joined #html-a11y
16:05:11 <LJWatson> JS: Question is whether the TF wishes to meet with either HTML or Web Apps WGs at the F2F in April.
16:05:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:05:52 <Billy_Gregory> Billy_Gregory has joined #html-a11y
16:05:54 <JatinderMann> present+ JatinderMann
16:05:57 <LJWatson> JS: Timing doesn't work out for the Canvas sub-team.
16:06:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:06:26 <MarkS> q+
16:06:41 <MarkS> q-
16:06:48 <LJWatson> JS: Week of April 7th.
16:07:06 <LJWatson> JF: Could put me as tentative.
16:07:49 <LJWatson> JM: I could possibly represent the Canvas sub-team?
16:07:59 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor
16:08:00 <LJWatson> MS: I should attend.
16:08:06 <st_bbl> st_bbl has joined #html-a11y
16:08:49 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:08:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], paulc, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, JF, Judy, [Microsoft], [IPcaller.a], Suzanne_Taylor
16:08:52 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:08:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:09:36 <MarkS> ACTION: MarkS to query the list for interest/availability for HTML F2F
16:09:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-230 - Query the list for interest/availability for html f2f [on Mark Sadecki - due 2014-02-27].
16:10:15 <LJWatson> zakim, next itemJB: Is there any consideration of alternative/future dates?
16:10:15 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, LJWatson.
16:10:25 <LJWatson> PC: These dates were announced two months ago.
16:10:37 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
16:10:37 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Longdesc Update" taken up [from See Below]
16:10:39 <MarkS> s/zakim, next itemJB:/JB:
16:11:54 <MarkS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Feb/0042.html
16:11:54 <LJWatson> MS: We've found some common ground with Matthew Turvey.
16:12:09 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
16:12:17 <LJWatson> MS: Good news. Chaals and I continue to work through our to do list.
16:12:21 <LJWatson> PC: Timetable?
16:12:44 <LJWatson> MS: Hopefully early March for a publication transition. Will have a definitive date next week.
16:13:00 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
16:13:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps" taken up [from See Below]
16:13:13 <MarkS> ACTION: MarkS to have a time estimate for longdesc transition by next week
16:13:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-231 - Have a time estimate for longdesc transition by next week [on Mark Sadecki - due 2014-02-27].
16:13:25 <MarkS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Feb/0052.html Summary of options for moving Canvas fwd
16:14:38 <LJWatson> JM: We've eliminated most bugs with the API.
16:15:13 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:15:45 <LJWatson> JS: IE isn't an implementation?
16:15:52 <LJWatson> JM: Not yet/in the near future.
16:16:08 <LJWatson> JM: Firefox has implementation, but with issues.
16:16:43 <LJWatson> JS: Also Google/Webkit?
16:16:47 <LJWatson> JM: Yes.
16:16:52 <janina> q?
16:17:16 <LJWatson> RS: We couldn't get hit regions into v1, so this is a reduced version.
16:17:31 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:17:48 <LJWatson> JM: We have implementations of draw focus if needed.
16:19:03 <LJWatson> JM: Option 1 - Move it to Level 2. Pro is Level 1 isn't delayed.
16:19:59 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Feb/0052.html
16:20:25 <LJWatson> JS: Options available in email [URI above]
16:21:16 <LJWatson> MS: No implementations for option 3 currently.
16:22:47 <MarkS> q+ to say that he doesn't like the idea of an "accessibility point release" aka 1.1 Canvas with A11y Features
16:22:48 <LJWatson> JM: Option 4 could take anywhere from three to six months.
16:22:54 <janina> q?
16:23:01 <janina> ack m
16:23:01 <Zakim> MarkS, you wanted to say that he doesn't like the idea of an "accessibility point release" aka 1.1 Canvas with A11y Features
16:23:36 <JatinderMann> q+
16:23:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
16:24:07 <LJWatson> MS: Not a fan of options 1 or 2, 3 is pretty messy, so 4 seems like a possibility.
16:24:29 <LJWatson> MS: Think three to six months is a safe estimate for option 4.
16:25:01 <janina> ack j
16:25:04 <paulc> q+
16:25:21 <LJWatson> JM: Think our real options are 2 or 4.
16:25:38 <Judy> q+
16:26:03 <LJWatson> JM: One mild concern about 4 is that we'd have a forked version for a while.
16:26:38 <LJWatson> JM: Question is whether it's part of the Level 1 spec, or an extension spec, but that's just logistics.
16:26:53 <janina> ack r
16:28:25 <janina> ack p
16:28:27 <LJWatson> RS: We have to consider the 508 refresh. That requires that objects are exposed, so we can't afford to release a version of the spec that doesn't meet that requirement.
16:29:02 <LJWatson> PC: Speaking personally, the time estimate is suspect. Your original timetable was January.
16:29:08 <LJWatson> JS: We were done in November.
16:29:31 <LJWatson> PC: We need to choose an option that gets Canvas out more quickly than three to six months.
16:29:34 <MarkS> The subgroup did not start meeting until January...
16:29:58 <LJWatson> PC: We need to take these options back to the HTML WG.
16:30:12 <LJWatson> PC: Don't understand concerns about option 2/extension spec?
16:30:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
16:30:43 <janina> ack j
16:31:15 <LJWatson> JB: It won't be acceptable to have an open web platform that doesn't have an accessible primary graphic option.
16:31:55 <LJWatson> JB: I'm interested in the possible factors that could shorten the timeframe?
16:32:40 <janina> q?
16:32:43 <paulc> q+
16:32:46 <LJWatson> JB: I'm encouraged by the recent activity in the Canvas team.
16:33:00 <janina> ack r
16:34:34 <LJWatson> RS: The WHATWG effort is getting in the way of things. Regarding implementations, the Mozilla team had a prototype up and running within a week. Will ask the chairs need to deal with the WHATWG situation.
16:34:39 <Zakim> -paulc
16:34:41 <janina> ack p
16:34:54 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
16:35:39 <LJWatson> PC: I understand those concerns. It's not clear to me how we solve a problem like that.
16:35:42 <Judy> q+
16:36:08 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:36:08 <janina> q?
16:36:08 <LJWatson> PC: Will point out this is why I'm skeptical of the option 4 timeline.
16:36:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
16:36:19 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:36:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:36:25 <MarkS> q+ to say that we don't have the liberty of a "living standard" and that we should do what we need to get an accessible version of Canvas out
16:36:52 <janina> ack j
16:37:32 <MarkS> q-
16:37:39 <JatinderMann> q+
16:38:22 <MarkS> q+
16:38:23 <LJWatson> JB: I understand Ian has expressed an opinion that the discussion should take place within WHATWG space. We're expecting the process to continue within the multi-stakeholder HTML WG.
16:38:28 <janina> ack r
16:38:45 <Judy> s/HTML WG/HTML A11y TF/
16:39:30 <janina> ack j
16:39:34 <LJWatson> RS: Ian has de-railed numerous accessibility efforts in Canvas. If him causing trouble causes us not to get things don for the 508 refreshe, we have a problem
16:40:20 <Judy> s/HTML A11y TF/HTML A11y TF; the hit-testing approach has a prior history of discussion and use in other fora in any case; and it appears that the solutions being pursued are relatively close in any case, and bugs can be filed to address the differences./
16:40:24 <MarkS> q-
16:40:59 <LJWatson> JM: We have stakeholder involvement, but browser vendors may also be swayed by the WHATWG.
16:41:01 <MarkS> q+
16:41:13 <janina> ack m
16:41:53 <LJWatson> JM: We could include a promisory note in v1 to say accessibility is coming.
16:41:55 <JatinderMann> q+
16:42:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
16:42:07 <LJWatson> JB: That's not the definition of an open web platform.
16:42:39 <LJWatson> MS: What is our obligation, if any, to work with the WHATWG?
16:43:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
16:43:08 <Judy> q+
16:43:13 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:43:20 <LJWatson> MS: Suggest we forge ahead with it, then WHATWG can pull from our spec if they wish.
16:43:55 <LJWatson> MS: Need to read the HTML WG charter, which says we'll actively ppursue convergance with the WHATWG.
16:44:19 <paulc> See http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter.html section 4
16:44:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
16:44:42 <LJWatson> s/MS: Need to read the HTML WG charter, which says we'll actively ppursue convergance with the WHATWG./PC: Need to read the HTML WG charter, which says we'll actively ppursue convergance with the WHATWG./
16:45:18 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:45:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:45:39 <LJWatson> JB: When questions come up, they need to be dealt with in W3C space.
16:47:55 <LJWatson> JM: Can either delay 1 by 6 months, and 1.1 in possibly 6/8 months after.
16:48:12 <janina> q?
16:48:17 <janina> ack j
16:48:22 <janina> ack r
16:48:31 <JatinderMann> q-
16:49:06 <janina> q?
16:49:11 <plh> plh has joined #html-a11y
16:49:56 <LJWatson> RS: We shouldn't be working on a WHATWG spec, especially if it has no route into a W3C spec. I asked Ian that but received no response.
16:50:13 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:50:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:50:36 <janina> q?
16:51:06 <LJWatson> JB: Would express extremely strong concerns if we didn't have an open web platform with accessibility.
16:51:21 <janina> q?
16:51:41 <LJWatson> JB: I'd be interested in ways we can compress the timeline and achieve this though.
16:52:15 <janina> q?
16:52:23 <LJWatson> JB: For a major W3C spec not to include accessibility would be strategically worrying.
16:52:50 <LJWatson> CS: Whether it's in 1 or 1.1, it'll end up in the browsers at the same time.
16:53:50 <LJWatson> CS: So the question is what version of the spec, not when it'll actually be available in browsers.
16:54:09 <LJWatson> JB: The goal to ensure an accessible web is more important.
16:55:23 <janina> q?
16:56:04 <LJWatson> JS: Next steps?
16:56:16 <LJWatson> JS: Test TF consensus?
16:56:23 <LJWatson> JB: We need additional information on timing.
16:56:35 <LJWatson> JB: Timing is critical.
16:56:56 <janina> q?
16:57:49 <janina> q?
16:58:23 <LJWatson> RS: I haven't seen a case for why we can't get this stuff into 1.0.
16:58:51 <LJWatson> JS: We need to collect data on timelines, and return to this topic  next week.
17:00:01 <Zakim> -JF
17:00:13 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:00:50 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
17:00:50 <paulc> leaving to Chair WG meeting
17:01:01 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
17:01:07 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
17:01:08 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:01:09 <Zakim> -Mark_Sadecki
17:01:10 <Zakim> -janina
17:01:10 <Zakim> -Suzanne_Taylor
17:01:15 <Zakim> -Judy
17:02:01 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
17:02:03 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
17:02:03 <Zakim> Attendees were janina, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], paulc, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, JF, Judy, [Microsoft], Suzanne_Taylor, Cynthia_Shelly
17:09:12 <Judy> s/open web platform with accessibility/open web platform with accessibility, and a promisary note doesn't deliver an accessibility-compliant specification to work with./
17:10:47 <Judy> s/dealt with in W3C space/dealt with in W3C space, and there's already a history of HT experience and discussion./
17:11:29 <Judy> rrsagent, make minutes
17:11:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-minutes.html Judy
17:31:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
17:48:48 <janina> HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference; Thursday 27 February at 16:00Z for 60 minutes; Zakim 2119#
18:00:39 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/20-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
18:01:16 <LJWatson> zakim, [ipcaller] is LJWatson
18:01:16 <Zakim> sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[ipcaller]'
18:01:37 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is LJWatson
18:01:37 <Zakim> sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
18:01:50 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is LJWatson
18:01:50 <Zakim> sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
18:32:05 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
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