16:00:28 RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents 16:00:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc 16:00:35 RRSAgent, make log Public 16:00:48 +Doug_Schepers 16:00:56 jrossi2 has joined #pointerevents 16:01:28 +Matt_Brubeck 16:01:40 +[IPcaller] 16:02:07 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay 16:02:07 +Olli_Pettay; got it 16:02:22 Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay 16:02:22 ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay 16:02:25 +[Microsoft] 16:02:51 Zakim, Microsoft is jrossi 16:02:51 +jrossi; got it 16:03:07 Present: Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Jacob_Rossi, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, Asir_Vedamuthu 16:03:13 Regrets: Rick_Byers, Cathy_Chan, Scott_González 16:03:17 +[Microsoft] 16:03:31 patrick_h_lauke has joined #pointerevents 16:03:54 asir has joined #pointerevents 16:04:22 belated regrets from me, sorry. something came up just in the last few minutes (must dash off early to pick up little one from childminder now) 16:04:34 Regrets+ Patrick_Lauke 16:04:42 Topic: Agree on agenda 16:04:45 i WAS intending to take part, had it not been for this last second change of plan. sorry 16:04:47 AB: I posted a draft agenda on February 11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0073.html. We have a few regrets so we may need to factor that in for some discussions. Other than that, are there any change requests? 16:05:14 Topic: adding an informative note re touch events? 16:05:21 AB: Patrick started this thread on January 31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0064.html. 16:05:29 AB: Rick replied http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0065.html and I did too, suggesting Patrick create a concrete proposal we can discuss. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0066.html 16:06:01 AB: any comments? 16:06:10 AB: I'll create an action for Patrick 16:06:15 ACTION: Patrick create a proposal re informative note re PointerEvent and TouchEvent compatibility. 16:06:15 Created ACTION-69 - Create a proposal re informative note re pointerevent and touchevent compatibility. [on Patrick Lauke - due 2014-02-18]. 16:06:47 yup 16:07:00 Topic: ACTION-68: Proposed text for "contextmenu issue" 16:07:06 AB: Rick proposed text for Action-68 on January 28; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0061.html. 16:07:15 AB: any comments or can we approve Rick's proposal "as is"? 16:07:31 JR: works for me 16:07:36 AB: anyone else? 16:07:55 MB: looks ok 16:08:52 RESOLUTION: group agrees with the text Rick proposed re Action-68 16:08:58 ACTION: Jacob update spec to reflect 11-Feb-2014 discussion of Action-68 16:08:58 Created ACTION-70 - Update spec to reflect 11-feb-2014 discussion of action-68 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18]. 16:09:09 Topic: Exception usage 16:09:14 AB: Anne raised this issue on February 3; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0067.html. Anne recommends the PE spec use the JavaScript built-in RangeError rather than DOMException with a new name of "InvalidPointerId". 16:09:42 AB: so far, no one has replied. There is a consistency argument here but this change would also presumably break implementations so there is also a cost to consider. 16:10:10 dfreedm has joined #pointerevents 16:10:29 JR: I could be out of date on the latest from DOM and Web IDL 16:10:48 … I don't have any data re an impact of the proposed change 16:10:56 … Not sure RangeError is correct 16:11:14 … If an invalid id is used, not really a range error per se 16:11:24 … more of a state error 16:11:37 … I need to think about this some more 16:11:50 OP: agree we need something other Range 16:12:06 JR: what do you think about what's in the spec now Olli? 16:12:17 … do you think that should change? 16:12:40 OP: if the plan is to not add new DOM Exception and to use builit in we shold consider it 16:13:00 MB: I don't see any other builtin exceptions that are a good match 16:13:05 … based on looking at ES spec 16:13:18 … Think we should reply to Anne 16:13:39 JR: latest info I saw was from Cameron on Jan 28 16:13:46 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21740 16:13:53 … don't want to move to something just because it is "trendy" 16:14:06 MB: need to understand what changes are coming 16:14:20 DS: and we need to understand the level of consensus for the proposed change 16:14:37 ACTION: Matt reply to Anne's "Exception usage" e-mail of Feb 3 16:14:38 Created ACTION-71 - Reply to anne's "exception usage" e-mail of feb 3 [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-02-18]. 16:14:51 MB: I think we need some more data 16:15:12 ECMA-262 defines Error, EvalError, RangeError, ReferenceError, SyntaxError, TypeError and URIError. 16:15:13 AB: encourage others to followup too 16:15:41 AB: that's a short list and I agree, not clear better match 16:15:53 Topic Feedback on pointer events 16:15:58 AB: Anne submitted 8 additional comments from him and Boris on February 3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0069.html. 16:16:09 AB: there's an implicit Action for everyone to review the comments and reply accordingly. We can discuss some set of the comments now or defer discussion on the list. 16:16:59 JR: some are easy, along the line of "spec mechanics" 16:17:09 … #5 appears to just be a typo 16:17:23 … since there is no default action to be canceled 16:17:36 … #1, think I just need to add a reference 16:17:50 MB: #6 is tricky since we don't define default behavior 16:18:00 … touches on touch-action algorithm 16:18:12 … we might need to change our language to the proposed form 16:18:40 JR: my proposal is for me to make changes for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in a single ED update 16:18:56 … and I'll send that changeset to the list 16:19:22 ACTION: Jacob propose changes for 1-5 of Anne's e-mail of Feb 3 16:19:22 Created ACTION-72 - Propose changes for 1-5 of anne's e-mail of feb 3 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18]. 16:19:29 MB: what about the other items? 16:19:33 JR: discuss on the list 16:19:41 MB: I can take an action re #6 16:20:06 … think #7 is a "ship has sailed" deal 16:20:13 … Need to think more about #8 16:20:36 OP: not clear about #7 and the devices not tied to a screen 16:20:49 … not clear its better than Navigator 16:20:57 JR: agree; I have a device like that 16:21:21 MB: not sure we can make a change at this point 16:21:39 ACTION: Matt reply to #6 of Anne's Feb 3 comments 16:21:39 Created ACTION-73 - Reply to #6 of anne's feb 3 comments [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-02-18]. 16:22:16 ACTION: olli reply to #7 of Anne's Feb 3 comments 16:22:16 Created ACTION-74 - Reply to #7 of anne's feb 3 comments [on Olli Pettay - due 2014-02-18]. 16:22:34 MB: not sure what about #8 16:23:16 JR: we don't define overall dispatch model in PE spec 16:23:29 … we just describe behavior for each event 16:23:43 … not sure where we would define what is proposed 16:24:11 ACTION: jacob reply to #8 of Anne's Feb 3 e-mail 16:24:11 Created ACTION-75 - Reply to #8 of anne's feb 3 e-mail [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18]. 16:24:38 AB: it's good to get the feedback 16:25:01 Topic: Focus/blur? 16:25:13 AB: Patrick started this thread on February 4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0071.html 16:25:13 AB: any comments? 16:25:44 OP: think the focus/blur handling should continue to be defined in HTML spec 16:25:59 … not sure PE spec can say anything useful about this 16:26:03 JR: agree with that 16:26:36 ACTION: olli reply to Patrick's Focus/blur? e-mail of Feb 4 16:26:36 Created ACTION-76 - Reply to patrick's focus/blur? e-mail of feb 4 [on Olli Pettay - due 2014-02-18]. 16:26:45 Topic: Pointer cancel event dispatching 16:26:53 AB: this thread was started Nikolay Lebedev on February 4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0072.html. 16:26:54 AB: would someone please followup? 16:27:11 MB: Nick is part of MS Open Tech and he is implementing PE in Gecko 16:27:25 AV: I think this is just an e-mail seeking clarification 16:27:31 JR: yes agree 16:27:39 … I can reply with "yes, that's OK" 16:28:22 ACTION: Jacob reply to Nikolay's e-mail of Feb 4 re "Pointer cancel event dispatching" 16:28:23 Created ACTION-77 - Reply to nikolay's e-mail of feb 4 re "pointer cancel event dispatching" [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18]. 16:28:46 Topic: Testing status 16:28:54 AB: any new testing status since we discussed testing during our last call http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#item10? 16:29:48 AB: I think we are waiting for some colleagues of Jacob 16:29:51 who is automated tester? 16:30:15 JR: I think some internal changes will make this easier and we can expect an update soon 16:30:24 AB: that would be great 16:31:09 DS: in case people didn't notice, Opera recently released their Presto tests [to Github] 16:31:40 … I don't know if they included anything useful for us 16:31:55 asir: that AutomatedTester who just left this channel is from Mozilla, I think 16:32:09 AB: my recollection is Sangwhan reported they would not backport PE to Presto and would use Blink's impl moving forward 16:32:17 DS: yes, that might be correct 16:32:22 ok 16:32:32 Topic: CR implementation updates 16:32:40 AB: any new testing status since we discussed testing during our last call http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#item11? 16:32:57 s/testing/implementation/ 16:33:06 MB: we are still reviewing patches 16:33:17 OP: patches are landing `all the time` 16:33:25 AV: do you mean patches from Oleg? 16:33:36 MB: yes, patches from Oleg and Nikolay 16:33:53 DS: wasn't there some WebKit news? 16:33:58 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105463 16:34:55 was resolved WONTFIX 16:36:25 Topic: AoB 16:36:35 AB: anything else for today? 16:37:04 DS: during the 2nd week of April, there is a "mini TPAC" by eBay in San Jose 16:37:14 … does this group want to try to meet there? 16:37:23 AB: I'll be there 16:37:37 DS: HTMLWG and WebAppsWG will be there 16:37:48 AV: will we have agenda items to discuss? 16:37:58 JR: we should be done by then 16:38:56 AB: I don't think we'll have an urgent need to meet then 16:39:07 DS: ok, I just wanted to let people know 16:39:52 AB: any other topics for today? 16:40:00 AB: please address your open Actions 16:41:43 AB: meeting adjourned 16:41:48 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:41:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB 16:42:06 RRSAgent, make log public 16:42:27 Meeting: Pointer Events Call 16:42:32 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:42:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB 16:42:52 Chair: ArtB 16:42:56 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:42:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB 16:43:18 -Olli_Pettay 16:43:19 -Art_Barstow 16:43:21 -Doug_Schepers 16:43:22 -jrossi 16:43:46 -Matt_Brubeck 16:45:32 jrossi has left #pointerevents 16:47:13 remember to CC anne on replies, as requested 16:58:16 -[Microsoft] 16:58:17 RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended 16:58:17 Attendees were Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, jrossi, [Microsoft] 18:07:02 Zakim has left #pointerevents 18:12:23 AutomatedTester has joined #pointerevents 18:12:32 AutomatedTester has joined #pointerevents 18:54:51 slightlyoff_ has joined #pointerevents 19:03:17 slightlyoff_ has joined #pointerevents 19:03:22 RRSAgent, bye 19:03:22 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-actions.rdf : 19:03:22 ACTION: Patrick create a proposal re informative note re PointerEvent and TouchEvent compatibility. [1] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-06-15 19:03:22 ACTION: Jacob update spec to reflect 11-Feb-2014 discussion of Action-68 [2] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-08-58 19:03:22 ACTION: Matt reply to Anne's "Exception usage" e-mail of Feb 3 [3] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-14-37 19:03:22 ACTION: Jacob propose changes for 1-5 of Anne's e-mail of Feb 3 [4] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-19-22 19:03:22 ACTION: Matt reply to #6 of Anne's Feb 3 comments [5] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-21-39 19:03:22 ACTION: olli reply to #7 of Anne's Feb 3 comments [6] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-22-16 19:03:22 ACTION: jacob reply to #8 of Anne's Feb 3 e-mail [7] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-24-11 19:03:22 ACTION: olli reply to Patrick's Focus/blur? e-mail of Feb 4 [8] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-26-36 19:03:22 ACTION: Jacob reply to Nikolay's e-mail of Feb 4 re "Pointer cancel event dispatching" [9] 19:03:22 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-28-22