15:00:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
15:00:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-irc
15:00:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
15:00:44 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
15:00:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
15:00:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM already started
15:00:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
15:00:47 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2014
15:00:59 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see joanie, ??P3
15:01:07 <janina> zakim, ??P3 is me
15:01:07 <Zakim> +janina; got it
15:01:09 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:02:43 <Zakim> +??P11
15:02:44 <clown> clown has joined #aria
15:02:52 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P11 is Michael_Cooper
15:02:52 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
15:02:54 <Zakim> +Matt_King
15:03:01 <MichaelC> zakim, I am Michael
15:03:01 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC, I now associate you with Michael_Cooper
15:03:03 <MichaelC> zakim, mute me
15:03:03 <Zakim> Michael_Cooper should now be muted
15:03:38 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:04:09 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:04:09 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
15:04:28 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:04:28 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:04:33 <mattking> mattking has joined #aria
15:04:35 <MichaelC> ack me
15:07:50 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
15:08:38 <clown> First column is WAI-ARIA role, followed by mappings to the following accessibility APIs: MSAA, IAccessible2, UI Automation, ATK, and MAC Accessibility
15:08:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria
15:09:05 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
15:09:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
15:09:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
15:09:19 <clown> summary:  First column is WAI-ARIA role, followed by mappings to the following accessibility APIs: MSAA, IAccessible2, UI Automation, ATK, and MAC Accessibility
15:09:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
15:09:30 <clown> caption:  Table describing mapping of WAI-ARIA roles to accessibility APIs
15:14:25 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#document-handling_author-errors
15:16:19 <jongund_> jongund_ has joined #aria
15:16:51 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
15:19:54 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #aria
15:21:04 <Zakim> +James_Craig
15:24:50 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_author-errors
15:27:33 <mattking> misspelling in this caption:
15:27:35 <mattking> Table of accessibility application programing interface  for focus states and events
15:27:59 <clown> MichaelC ^
15:31:41 <mattking> in this caption, interfaces should be singular:
15:31:43 <mattking> Table of events to be fired in each application programing interfaces  for changes in Accessible Rich Internet Application  states and properties
15:39:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/1
15:40:02 <clown> scribenick:  clown
15:40:14 <clown> Topic:  action-239
15:40:17 <clown> action-239?
15:40:17 <trackbot> action-239 -- Michael Cooper to Add to spec for grab "When grab is set to true, all potential drop targets should have dropeffect property set appropriately. When an object is ungrabbed (value reverts to supported or none) dropeffects should revert to none". -- due 2008-09-01 -- CLOSED
15:40:18 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/239
15:40:35 <clown> action-1329
15:40:35 <trackbot> action-1329 -- James Craig to Clarify the "bridging" language in #co-evolution to make it clear that aria is not a stop-gap technology. it will always be relevant svg, and it will remain relevant for html as long as web developers have *any* reason to not use the native control, including the use to retrofit existing sites or frameworks without completely gutting the implementation. -- due 2014-01-30 -- OPEN
15:40:36 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1329
15:40:44 <clown> RS:  Did this get done?
15:40:49 <clown> RS:  Let me look.
15:41:10 <clown> RS:  I don't see the word "bridge" doing a search.
15:41:25 <clown> MC:  You won't find it on the cover page.  It was in a couple of places.
15:41:38 <clown> MC:  It's in the DTD section.
15:41:44 <clown> MC:  It is in the introduction.
15:41:48 <clown> RS: Still there?
15:41:50 <clown> MC:  Yes.
15:42:01 <clown> JS:  That needs to be fixed before we go PR.
15:42:12 <clown> MC:  I thought james had worked up some wording.
15:43:21 <clown> s/action-239/action-1329/
15:43:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-minutes.html clown
15:44:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/introduction
15:44:38 <clown> s/action-239/action-1329/g
15:44:52 <clown> JC:  Let me look at that.
15:45:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-minutes.html clown
15:45:44 <clown> RS, JC:  <discussion of where the changes need to be made>
15:46:19 <clown> MK:  This is written as if SVG includes ARIA.  Does it?
15:46:26 <clown> RS:  It is in SVG2.
15:46:42 <clown> JC:  It doesn't actually include it, but you cann use aria in SVG.
15:46:50 <clown> MK:  So we should remove that clause.
15:47:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/introduction
15:47:30 <jcraig> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/complete#co-evolution
15:48:23 <clown> RS, JC, MK:  <discussion of fixes>
15:49:00 <clown> JC:  Just remove the phrase about the obsolescence of ARIA.
15:49:31 <clown> MK:  Just take out the phrase that starts "without the obsolescence …"
15:49:36 <clown> JC:  Yes.
15:49:51 <clown> MC:  Yes, we can remove that.
15:50:39 <clown> RS:  Also, in the first paragraph, change "bridging" to "additve".
15:50:55 <clown> MC:  How about adaptive (?)
15:51:10 <clown> RS:  That would be better.
15:51:28 <clown> s/adaptive/enhancing/
15:53:16 <jcraig> <abbr title="Accessible Rich Internet Applications">WAI-ARIA</abbr> is intended to augment semantics in supporting languages like <a href="#ref_HTML">HTML</a> and <a href="#ref_SVG">SVG</a>, or used as an accessibility enhancement technology in other markup-based languages that do not explicitly include support for ARIA.
15:53:44 <jcraig> In these cases, <abbr title="Accessible Rich Internet Applications">WAI-ARIA</abbr> could be adopted as a long-term approach to add semantic information to user interface components.
15:54:00 <clown> MK:  I propose we delete this sentence:
15:54:09 <mattking> delete this sentence: Thus new types of objects would generally appear first within the web community, then WAI-ARIA
15:54:11 <mattking> would provide bridging accessibility semantics in the medium term, and finally web languages would provide native semantics in the longer term. In this
15:54:12 <mattking> way, WAI-ARIA and host languages both evolve together but at different rates.
15:54:14 <mattking> Thus new types of objects would generally appear first within the web community, then WAI-ARIA
15:54:15 <mattking> would provide bridging accessibility semantics in the medium term, and finally web languages would provide native semantics in the longer term. In this
15:54:17 <mattking> way, WAI-ARIA and host languages both evolve together but at different rates.
15:54:53 <clown> MK:  I think this is redundant
15:55:14 <clown> MK:  It is describing a bridge in time, but I think the paragraph is better without it.
15:55:24 <clown> MC:  But the next sentence makes less sense now.
15:56:34 <clown> JC:  Instead of "The goal of WAI-ARIA", say, "One of the goals of WAI-ARIA".
15:56:45 <jcraig> Furthermore, new types of objects are continually being developed. One goal of <abbr title="Accessible Rich Internet Applications">WAI-ARIA</abbr> is to provide a way to make such objects accessible, because host language standards tend to be slower to evolve. In this way, <abbr title="Accessible Rich Internet Applications">WAI-ARIA</abbr> and host languages both evolve together but at different rates.
15:56:52 <clown> JC:  Then we could pull out the next sentence.
15:57:42 <Zakim> -joanie
15:58:10 <jcraig> because host language standards tend to be slower to evolve.
15:58:31 <Zakim> +joanie
15:58:32 <clown> JC:  That implies, again, that aria is a quick stop-gap measure.
15:58:57 <jcraig> because host language standards sometimes overlook accessibility needs.
15:59:08 <clown> RS:  We don't need to say that aria is quicker.  Nothing is gained by that.
16:00:26 <clown> Clown:  It's not just the W3C.  It's the authors that are moving quicker.
16:01:41 <jcraig> because web authoring practices often advance faster than host language standards.
16:07:21 <clown> RS:  I good with the first paragraph.
16:07:30 <clown> s/I good/I am good/
16:08:08 <clown> JC:  One thing that bothers me is one sentence starts, "Furthermore", and the next one begins "Therefore".
16:08:16 <clown> JC:  Drop the furthermore.
16:08:21 <clown> MC: Okay.
16:08:31 <clown> JC:  Or, combine the two sentences.
16:08:35 <clown> RS:  Yes.
16:09:22 <clown> MK:  The first sentence has a strange grammatical structure.
16:09:52 <clown> MK:  Need "or to be used as" in the second phrase.
16:10:18 <clown> RS:  Does that do it?
16:11:06 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:11:12 <clown> RS:  Can we close action-1329 now?
16:11:15 <clown> JC:  I think so.
16:11:32 <clown> JC: I've checked in the 1.1 changes; Michael has done it for 1.0
16:11:47 <clown> RS: I'm going to close it then.
16:12:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Close action 1329 as complete
16:12:29 <clown> MK:  Didn't you say the "bridging" teminology appeared elsewhere in the document?
16:12:38 <clown> MC:  Yes, in an appendix, but in a different context.
16:13:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1360
16:13:22 <clown> Topic:  action 13060
16:13:25 <clown> action-1360?
16:13:25 <trackbot> action-1360 -- Janina Sajka to Write one paragraph per special acknoledgement for Al Gilman, Aaron Leventhal, etc. -- due 2014-02-01 -- OPEN
16:13:25 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1360
16:13:29 <jcraig> action-1360
16:13:29 <trackbot> action-1360 -- Janina Sajka to Write one paragraph per special acknoledgement for Al Gilman, Aaron Leventhal, etc. -- due 2014-02-01 -- OPEN
16:13:29 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1360
16:13:39 <clown> s/13060/1360/
16:13:55 <clown> JS:  I think that's necessary in the final document.
16:14:01 <clown> JS:  Do we need it now, Michael?
16:14:24 <clown> JC:  This is one of the good things that came up at the face-to-face
16:14:43 <clown> JC:  There are these acknowledgements, but they are kind of buried in the current draft.
16:14:55 <Zakim> -James_Craig
16:14:56 <clown> JS:  I can get this done, right after the call.
16:15:07 <clown> JS:  Is this important for the PR version?
16:15:19 <clown> MC:  We can do it later, but it would be helpful to do it earlier.
16:15:35 <clown> JS:  I would like to input from you, Rich.
16:15:44 <clown> RC:  Well, we have 15 minutes.
16:16:01 <clown> RC:  But, I also want to talk about a new meeting time.
16:16:19 <clown> MK:  Good idea.  Someone was going to ping Stefan about that.
16:17:09 <clown> MK:  How about 1pm eastern, on Mon.
16:18:00 <clown> JS:  We need to focus on the key people, and then post it to a wider audience.
16:18:11 <clown> RS:  The chanllenge is 1.5 hours.
16:18:31 <clown> RS:  Tues 1pm eastern.
16:19:07 <clown> Clown:  I prefer Mon for this meeting.
16:19:24 <clown> Clown:  The UAIG meeting is also on Tue on afternoon.
16:19:51 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:20:11 <clown> RS:  I could do 12.
16:20:16 <clown> MK:  That would be 10am for me.
16:20:49 <MichaelC> ack me
16:20:54 <clown> RS:  What does everyone think about 1pm eastern on Mon?
16:20:56 <clown> +1
16:21:05 <clown> MC:  I should be able to do that.
16:21:12 <clown> RS:  We need to check with James.
16:21:37 <clown> JS:  Do we want to explore other times?
16:21:52 <clown> RS:  <cites lots of conflicts>
16:22:36 <joanie> i'm good with 1pm
16:22:37 <MichaelC> ack me
16:22:45 <joanie> i am here
16:22:50 <jongund_> I have a meeting at 1 EST, but I could move it
16:23:24 <joanie> richardschwerdtfeger: I said yes
16:24:08 <clown> JS:  It is 10am for James.  He should be in the office by then.
16:24:28 <MichaelC> ack me
16:24:29 <clown> JG:  What about stefan?
16:24:43 <clown> JS:  It would be 7pm for him.  It's after work, but not too late.
16:27:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-minutes.html clown
16:28:46 <clown> RS:  I have sent the new time suggestion to the list.
16:29:04 <clown> MK:  We could switch in two weeks.
16:30:01 <clown> RS:  Any news on Mike Smith while we were talking?
16:30:08 <clown> MC:  I have not heard.
16:30:24 <clown> MC:  I don't think we will publish tomorrow, but probably on Thu.
16:31:16 <clown> RS:  Regarding Aaron and Al, what do you want to say, and where.
16:31:44 <clown> JS:  Near the acknowledgements with a couple of sentences.
16:32:14 <clown> RS:  Although aaron and al were not part of the WG at the time of publication, their contributions were ...
16:32:42 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
16:32:54 <clown> RS:  I think the big thing is that both of them were key or founding contributors to the specifications.
16:33:20 <clown> RS:  Specifically, Al chaired PFWG at the time that the ARIA effort began.
16:33:32 <clown> RS:  And Aaron established the first implementation in browsers.
16:33:52 <clown> JS:  Which demonstrated the viability of the approach
16:34:02 <clown> RS:  Let me point to the announcement.
16:34:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2005/081605-ibm-firefox.html
16:34:31 <clown> JS:  I will use that.
16:35:40 <clown> RS:  Aaron authored the first draft of the UAIG.
16:36:27 <clown> RS:  Point to the initial 50k lines of code in FF.
16:37:22 <clown> RS:  They couldn't because of the restrictions of the use of JS and CSS because they were deemed to be inaccessilbe.
16:37:36 <clown> RS:  The contribution of the code showed that it could be done.
16:38:16 <clown> RS:  It showed that it would work in the browser in the same way as on the desktop.
16:38:31 <clown> JS: Characterize Al as a strategic figure?
16:38:37 <clown> JS: Is that fair?
16:39:35 <clown> JS:  I'll put together a draft, and run it by you.
16:39:57 <clown> JS:  And, if we don't publish until Thu, I can have it done by then.
16:40:02 <clown> JS:  I think I have enough.
16:43:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-minutes.html clown
16:43:58 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:44:01 <Zakim> -Matt_King
16:44:03 <Zakim> -joanie
16:44:09 <Zakim> -janina
16:44:24 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:44:25 <clown> RRSAgent:  stop log
16:44:25 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:50:04 <clown> present:  joanie, janina, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Matt_King, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Jon_Gunderson, James_Craig
16:50:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-minutes.html clown