14:59:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
14:59:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/30-tt-irc
14:59:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
14:59:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
14:59:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:59:34 <trackbot> Date: 30 January 2014
15:00:07 <glenn> glenn has joined #tt
15:00:09 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
15:00:15 <Zakim> +??P5
15:00:19 <nigel> zakim, ??P5 is me
15:00:19 <Zakim> +nigel; got it
15:00:55 <glenn> morning
15:01:50 <nigel> chair: nigel
15:01:58 <Zakim> +glenn
15:02:13 <Zakim> +pal
15:03:33 <Frans_ebu> Frans_ebu has joined #tt
15:03:58 <Zakim> + +41.22.749.aaaa
15:04:18 <nigel> zakim, aaaa is frans_ebu
15:04:18 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #tt
15:04:18 <Zakim> +frans_ebu; got it
15:07:34 <glenn> zakim, pick a victim
15:07:34 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose pal
15:08:23 <tmichel> I am unable to join Zakim from the ERCIM office for unknow reason  ...
15:08:25 <tmichel> Keep trying ...
15:08:43 <nigel> will try to keep IRC up to date
15:08:53 <nigel> scribeNick: pal
15:09:09 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #tt
15:09:11 <nigel> regrets: Mike Dolan
15:09:20 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:09:32 <pal> pal has joined #tt
15:09:38 <nigel> zakim, [Microsoft] is jdsmith
15:09:38 <Zakim> +jdsmith; got it
15:10:13 <nigel> topic: IANA Registration of TTML media type
15:10:54 <nigel> plh has been at CSS meetings and may be at SVG meeting today
15:11:04 <nigel> Regrets+ plh
15:11:08 <glenn> http://www.w3.org/2013/09/ttml1-errata.html
15:13:05 <nigel> glenn: copied appendix C into the Errata, and changed the encoding to binary.
15:13:08 <nigel> action-88?
15:13:08 <trackbot> action-88 -- Glenn Adams to Make sure the TTML media type is properly registered for Issue-175. -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN
15:13:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/88
15:14:04 <nigel> action-88: Errata now updated. Mike to check and if looking good to resubmit to IANA.
15:14:04 <trackbot> Notes added to action-88 Make sure the TTML media type is properly registered for Issue-175..
15:14:29 <Zakim> +Yves
15:14:49 <nigel> zakim, Yves is tmichel
15:14:49 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
15:16:03 <nigel> glenn: reassigning the action to Mike Dolan
15:17:00 <nigel> topic: Charter
15:18:53 <nigel> nigel: Following emails over the last week or two the charter will be reverted to use the normal license, i.e. not adopt the HTML experimental license for VTT.
15:19:14 <nigel> ... It's hoped that this will mitigate a likely AC objection.
15:20:10 <nigel> ... Philippe will take this to AC no later than Feb 5.
15:20:26 <nigel> action-248?
15:20:26 <trackbot> action-248 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Add atsc to the ttml charter -- due 2013-12-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:20:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/248
15:20:48 <nigel> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html
15:21:20 <nigel> NB this has not yet been edited to remove the VTT experimental license wording.
15:21:32 <nigel> close action-248
15:21:32 <trackbot> Closed action-248.
15:21:39 <nigel> action-259?
15:21:39 <trackbot> action-259 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Add ebu wording in charter -- due 2014-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:21:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/259
15:22:44 <nigel> close action-259
15:22:44 <trackbot> Closed action-259.
15:23:12 <nigel> topic: Line Height stacking and calculation
15:23:21 <nigel> action-260?
15:23:21 <trackbot> action-260 -- Nigel Megitt to Email group notifying of this change and initiating formal approval -- due 2014-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:23:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/260
15:23:54 <nigel> close action-260
15:23:54 <trackbot> Closed action-260.
15:24:37 <nigel> nigel: pal asked if it would be back-ported to TTML1. The answer was no.
15:25:22 <glenn> i have a call on the side, so will be back in a few mins
15:25:24 <nigel> nigel: no further queries therefore group accepts glenn's algorithm proposal.
15:26:21 <nigel> pal: I asked a question to glenn for an example of how we would expect a paragraph with a lineHeight of 125% and a fontSize of 10% and a span of 48px font size. How would we expect it to look?
15:26:54 <pal> For instance, how do we expect <p tts:fontSize="10px"
15:26:54 <pal> tts:fontFamily="arial" tts:lineHeight="125%"><span
15:26:54 <pal> tts:fontSize="48px">...</span>...</p> to behave, e.g. will the height
15:26:54 <pal> of each line be the same and, if so, what will the value be? If
15:26:54 <pal> tts:lineHeight="125%" and tts:fontSize="10px", what will be the height
15:26:55 <pal> of three lines?
15:27:08 <nigel> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2014Jan/0022.html
15:27:59 <pal> zakim, who's talking
15:27:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's talking', pal
15:28:03 <pal> zakim, who's talking?
15:28:15 <Zakim> pal, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: nigel (49%)
15:29:12 <nigel> zakim, who is on the call?
15:29:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see nigel, glenn, pal, frans_ebu, jdsmith, tmichel
15:30:04 <nigel> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#style-attribute-lineHeight
15:31:07 <nigel> nigel: the proposed algorithm is for lineHeight="normal" so that's a separate issue.
15:31:40 <nigel> nigel: Jerry were you able to confirm this in IE?
15:32:13 <nigel> jdsmith: I sent glenn some screenshots. IE11 matches the behaviour of Chrome.
15:32:57 <nigel> ... on both Windows 8 and Windows 7. Glenn responded that this confirmed his expectation. There were some alignment differences in previous versions of IE.
15:33:23 <Zakim> -frans_ebu
15:34:01 <nigel> action on glenn to take algorithm from TTML2 ED 8.2.13 tts:lineHeight to CSS WG for review and potential adoption.
15:34:01 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.
15:34:09 <nigel> action glenn to take algorithm from TTML2 ED 8.2.13 tts:lineHeight to CSS WG for review and potential adoption.
15:34:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Take algorithm from ttml2 ed 8.2.13 tts:lineheight to css wg for review and potential adoption. [on Glenn Adams - due 2014-02-06].
15:34:51 <nigel> topic: Remaining Pending Review actions
15:34:57 <nigel> action-164?
15:34:57 <trackbot> action-164 -- Jerry Smith to Investigate interop issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-12-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:34:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164
15:35:59 <nigel> jdsmith: there are some outstanding issues and someone needs to make a proposal to align Unicode escapes with CSS to avoid pre-parsing if possible.
15:36:47 <glenn> back
15:36:55 <nigel> close action-164
15:36:56 <trackbot> Closed action-164.
15:37:22 <nigel> action-203?
15:37:22 <trackbot> action-203 -- Glenn Adams to Investigate 708 border style mapping issues with mike's help -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:37:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/203
15:37:43 <nigel> action-207?
15:37:43 <trackbot> action-207 -- Glenn Adams to Add round-down clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259 -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:37:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/207
15:37:53 <nigel> issue-259?
15:37:53 <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
15:37:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
15:39:27 <nigel> reopen action-207
15:39:27 <trackbot> Re-opened action-207.
15:40:04 <nigel> action-207: glenn to add errata to distinguish between scalar and vector comparisons
15:40:05 <trackbot> Notes added to action-207 Add round-down clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259.
15:40:21 <nigel> reopen issue-259
15:40:21 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-259.
15:40:44 <nigel> issue-259: Scalar and vector comparisons need to be distinguished more clearly.
15:40:44 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-259 Define "closest".
15:41:33 <nigel> action-244?
15:41:33 <trackbot> action-244 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Proceed with work to investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback is to remove annex a. -- due 2013-12-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:41:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/244
15:43:24 <nigel> glenn: A note on the action to explain the findings would be useful.
15:43:44 <nigel> action-244: pal to add disclaimer text to table 2
15:43:45 <trackbot> Notes added to action-244 Proceed with work to investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback is to remove annex a..
15:43:59 <nigel> reopen action-244
15:43:59 <trackbot> Re-opened action-244.
15:44:21 <nigel> topic: Pending Review Issues
15:44:27 <nigel> issue-162?
15:44:27 <trackbot> issue-162 -- update standalone profile documents -- pending review
15:44:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/162
15:45:03 <nigel> nigel: No feedback received on this - let's close.
15:45:08 <nigel> close issue-162
15:45:08 <trackbot> Closed issue-162.
15:45:41 <nigel> action-261?
15:45:41 <trackbot> action-261 -- Jerry Smith to And glenn to verify flexbox solution to multi row align using ie -- due 2014-01-23 -- OPEN
15:45:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/261
15:47:44 <nigel> nigel: have added a comment to action 261 directly
15:48:10 <nigel> close action-261
15:48:10 <trackbot> Closed action-261.
15:48:56 <nigel> nigel: not going through remaining outstanding actions to use time on change proposals
15:49:00 <nigel> topic: Change Proposals
15:49:04 <nigel> scribeNick: nigel
15:49:16 <nigel> action-263?
15:49:16 <trackbot> action-263 -- Nigel Megitt to Tidy change proposal index page to include an index -- due 2014-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:49:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/263
15:49:30 <nigel> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/ChangeProposalIndex
15:50:02 <nigel> nigel: glenn, does this do wanted?
15:50:24 <nigel> glenn: I think we should make change proposals coincident with work packages and eliminate work packages.
15:51:04 <nigel> nigel: updates page to this effect.
15:52:12 <nigel> glenn: it would also be good to show the name of the assignee.
15:52:29 <nigel> pal: Suggests clarification of Issues vs Change Proposals would be worthwhile.
15:52:39 <nigel> glenn: Other WGs using the same process e.g. HTMLWG.
15:53:01 <nigel> nigel: bugs are just issues, new features need issues within change proposals.
15:53:28 <nigel> glenn: Often a 'don't change' proposal goes alongside a change proposal.
15:53:55 <nigel> ... I agree that a new feature should have a change proposal to give the rationale etc. and it may be useful to document that in the index page Overview.
15:54:26 <nigel> ... We're missing a WG process to describe how we use these different tools e.g. actions, issues and change proposals.
15:54:46 <nigel> close action-263
15:54:46 <trackbot> Closed action-263.
15:55:34 <nigel> action nigel to describe WG process, issues, actions, change proposals on WG wiki more clearly, including taking out remaining references to work packages from change proposal index page overview.
15:55:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-266 - Describe wg process, issues, actions, change proposals on wg wiki more clearly, including taking out remaining references to work packages from change proposal index page overview. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-02-06].
15:57:01 <nigel> nigel: no progress on action-262
15:57:25 <nigel> nigel: will complete action-264 tomorrow. Some issues have no CP, others have more than one. Most are in a CP though.
16:00:53 <nigel> nigel: requests that people take ownership of the change proposals and expand the rationale etc to make them well formed.
16:01:07 <nigel> pal: Can we clarify the distinction between issues and change proposals?
16:01:38 <nigel> glenn: Issues should be Problem Statements and the issue text could include a proposed solution. If it's more than a simple proposal then a CP is useful to more fully document it.
16:02:10 <nigel> ... There may be competing CPs for a single issue. In the past we have not used the CP mechanism very much and have just thrown everything over the fence to the editor who came up with a solution and put it in the spec.
16:02:21 <nigel> ... rather than going through an intermediate discussion via a CP.
16:03:01 <nigel> ... We should try to elaborate proposed solutions more in the CP before the Editor brings the change in. This gives the group the chance to sign up to the change before the Editor folds it in.
16:03:56 <nigel> nigel: It's also worth considering differnt problems collectively to generate coherent solutions.
16:05:23 <nigel> glenn: take for example issue-229 - it would be good to put a proposed solution into the change proposal (21).
16:06:43 <nigel> pal: issue-229 has some of the rationale and background already.
16:07:33 <nigel> glenn: The CP should propose a solution.
16:08:13 <nigel> pal: the CP allows us to develop the solution alongside the rationale to address the set of issues. It can be at varying levels of specificity in terms of the exact edits to make.
16:08:28 <nigel> s/pal/glenn
16:09:12 <nigel> glenn: It's also really helpful to create examples, e.g. for the more complex style properties. The less work for the editor the quicker the change gets into the spec.
16:09:17 <nigel> pal: Sounds great.
16:12:44 <nigel> nigel: [misses some conversation about CP and process wrt tracker]
16:13:05 <nigel> pal: The issues are sometimes completely independent.
16:13:12 <nigel> glenn: in that case they should have separate CPs.
16:15:35 <nigel> nigel: we need to get ownership on these CPs - we can do this by volunteering or by me volunteering them.
16:15:42 <nigel> glenn: I'm of the 'pick a victim' preference.
16:16:14 <nigel> pal: the majority issue owner should be assigned the CP.
16:16:24 <nigel> jdsmith: I can take on Sean's CPs.
16:16:45 <nigel> nigel: thanks, I'll reassign them to you.
16:16:59 <nigel> topic: AOB
16:17:27 <Zakim> -glenn
16:17:29 <Zakim> -pal
16:17:29 <Zakim> -jdsmith
16:17:31 <Zakim> -nigel
16:17:38 <nigel> rssagent, make logs public
16:17:46 <nigel> rrsagent, make logs public
16:17:51 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:17:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/30-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:27:53 <nigel> Present: Nigel Megitt, Glenn Adams, Thierry Michel, Frans de Jong, Pierre Lemieux, Jerry Smith
16:27:56 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:27:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/30-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:28:07 <Zakim> -tmichel
16:28:09 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
16:28:09 <Zakim> Attendees were nigel, glenn, pal, +41.22.749.aaaa, frans_ebu, jdsmith, tmichel
17:45:41 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tt