15:28:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
15:28:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/27-w3process-irc
15:28:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:28:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
15:28:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:28:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
15:28:40 <trackbot> Date: 27 January 2014
15:28:44 <koalie> Zakim, this will be chap7
15:28:44 <Zakim> ok, koalie; I see Team_JEFF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes
15:29:09 <koalie> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Jan/0025.html
15:31:03 <koalie> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Jan/0009.html Minutes and summary of previous (2014-01-13)
15:31:20 <koalie> s/<koalie> ->/<koaliie> ->/G
15:31:24 <koalie> chair: SteveZilles
15:31:32 <koalie> scribe: Coralie
15:31:34 <koalie> scribenick: koalie
15:33:28 <koalie> agenda+ Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81
15:33:36 <koalie> agenda+ Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84
15:33:41 <koalie> agenda+ Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review
15:33:49 <koalie> agenda+ Review Revised Chapter 7 Organization
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16:00:18 <Zakim> Team_JEFF()11:00AM has now started
16:00:27 <Zakim> +koalie
16:01:30 <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aaaa
16:01:45 <koalie> Zakim, aaaa is SteveZ
16:01:46 <Zakim> +SteveZ; got it
16:02:07 <Zakim> +Mike_Champion
16:03:08 <chaals> chaals has joined #w3process
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16:04:36 <Zakim> +Ralph
16:08:53 <SteveZ> Agenda: 1.	Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81 http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/raised https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/closed 2.	Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84 http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/raised https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/open 3.	Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review 4.	Review Revised Chapter 7 Organization http://www.w3.org/co[CUT]
16:08:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:09:03 <chaals> zakim, [ip is me
16:09:03 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
16:10:04 <koalie> Zakim, agenda?
16:10:04 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:10:05 <Zakim> 1. Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81 [from koalie]
16:10:05 <Zakim> 2. Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84 [from koalie]
16:10:05 <Zakim> 3. Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review [from koalie]
16:10:05 <Zakim> 4. Review Revised Chapter 7 Organization [from koalie]
16:10:16 <koalie> Zakim, take up item 1
16:10:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81" taken up [from koalie]
16:10:37 <koalie> SteveZ: issues 56-58 may have been implemented in the Jan. 21 draft
16:10:40 <koalie> ... I closed thos
16:10:45 <koalie> s/thos/those/
16:10:49 <koalie> issue-67?
16:10:49 <trackbot> issue-67 -- Rather than change LC and CR, it seems like it would be more effective to attack the cycle problem via Education and Outreach -- closed
16:10:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/67
16:11:32 <koalie> SteveZ: I closed it and we opened issue-83 instead
16:11:35 <koalie> issue-83
16:11:35 <trackbot> issue-83 -- Explicitly allow WGs to customize process steps in their charters -- open
16:11:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/83
16:11:49 <koalie> SteveZ: It was Jeff's request to close it with opening another
16:12:03 <koalie> ... Thanks Mike for the suggestion
16:12:11 <koalie> issue-70?
16:12:11 <trackbot> issue-70 -- Usage of "normative" needs clarification -- pending review
16:12:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/70
16:12:29 <koalie> SteveZ: This as been implemented as far as I can tell
16:12:36 <koalie> Chaals: Yes, I implemented this quite a while ago
16:12:42 <koalie> SteveZ: I'll close issue-70
16:13:03 <koalie> issue-70: chaals: I implemented this quite a while ago
16:13:03 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-70 Usage of "normative" needs clarification.
16:13:17 <koalie> issue-72?
16:13:17 <trackbot> issue-72 -- Rationalising the definition of different types of change -- pending review
16:13:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/72
16:13:46 <koalie> SteveZ: You did implement that. The one suggestion that came up was that you move the combined thing up to 7.2 section where the other definitions are
16:13:51 <koalie> ... so people get to see it early
16:13:58 <koalie> ... and reference it back in 7.8
16:14:07 <chaals> ACTION: chaals to move changes section earlier in document
16:14:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Move changes section earlier in document [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-02-03].
16:14:52 <koalie> issue-72: suggestion to move the combined thing up to 7.2 where other definitions are and reference it back in 7.8
16:14:52 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-72 Rationalising the definition of different types of change.
16:15:53 <koalie> SteveZ: I left issue-72 as "pending" because of action-27
16:16:05 <koalie> issue-82?
16:16:05 <trackbot> issue-82 -- Process for provisional approval -- closed
16:16:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/82
16:16:42 <koalie> issue-81
16:16:42 <trackbot> issue-81 -- Opening of AC review -- pending review
16:16:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/81
16:16:48 <koalie> SteveZ: I noted you implemented that one too
16:16:58 <koalie> ... Closing that one too
16:17:10 <koalie> issue-81: chaals implemented it too
16:17:10 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-81 Opening of AC review.
16:18:17 <koalie> chaals: issue-59 has been implemented except "end game" split as issue-57
16:20:10 <koalie> SteveZ: Did we really resolve issue-57?
16:20:13 <koalie> issue-57
16:20:13 <trackbot> issue-57 -- Avoid using the term "publishing" for Editor's Drafts -- closed
16:20:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/57
16:20:23 <koalie> chaals: Yes
16:21:50 <koalie> SteveZ: Found it in 7.2.1
16:21:58 <koalie> ... closing that one ...
16:23:21 <koalie> issue-47
16:23:21 <trackbot> issue-47 -- What kind of changes can be "silently" made to a document in /TR -- pending review
16:23:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/47
16:23:45 <koalie> SteveZ: Didn't we reject it?
16:23:52 <koalie> chaals: We haven't made significant changes
16:24:02 <koalie> ... we agreed on the conditions under which we could make the changes
16:24:33 <koalie> SteveZ: other than clarifying the definition of change and substantive changes, no other correction were made
16:25:17 <koalie> issue-47: We rejected it, after agreeing on the conditions under which we could make the changes. Other than clarifying the definition of change and substantive changes, no other correction were made
16:25:17 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-47 What kind of changes can be "silently" made to a document in /TR.
16:25:45 <koalie> SteveZ: 61 to 67 open for now
16:25:53 <koalie> issue-75
16:25:53 <trackbot> issue-75 -- How and to whom are transitions announced? -- pending review
16:25:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/75
16:26:06 <koalie> SteveZ: it's on my list for discussion.
16:26:42 <koalie> ... Chaals you said you felt calling out WGs
16:26:52 <koalie> ack me
16:27:03 <koalie> ... Do these announcements go to chairs?
16:27:06 <koalie> chaals: No
16:27:18 <koalie> ... practice shoud change to follow the process
16:27:26 <koalie> s/shoud/should/
16:28:22 <koalie> http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=fpwd-wd-tr
16:28:37 <koalie> [[In order to facilitate peer review, once the document has been published, the Chair sends a transition announcement to chairs@w3.org and the group's public mailing list. ]]
16:29:07 <koalie> chaals: My proposal is to @@ and not change the process
16:29:28 <koalie> ... the point is to enforce it
16:29:41 <koalie> Mike: my counter suggestion is, what problem are we trying to solve
16:29:59 <chaals> q+
16:30:01 <koalie> ... and how to specify the announcement, or leave unspecified and leave it to the group to do the right thing
16:30:20 <koalie> Mike: sending a message to a mailing list is not necessariy the right thing
16:30:25 <chaals> s/@@/enforce the requirement better if we are not doing it,/
16:30:32 <chaals> q+
16:30:41 <koalie> SteveZ: it just says "announce"
16:30:50 <koalie> Mike: Leaving it to the discretion of the chair
16:31:24 <koalie> SteveZ: The process says the Director announces to the members and the public.
16:31:55 <koalie> Mike: We should encourage the Director collectively to not just put it on the W3C homepage
16:32:13 <koalie> ... there are relatively few of us who follow the W3C homepage
16:32:32 <koalie> ... I agree with chaals, the team needs to figure out how to make sure the proper audience gets notified
16:33:39 <koalie> s/to the members and the public/to other W3C groups and to the public/
16:34:24 <koalie> SteveZ: I added to tracker " mechanisms are left to the Team and should be the current mechanisms"
16:34:29 <koalie> ... We're closing that one
16:34:55 <koalie> issue-47?
16:34:55 <trackbot> issue-47 -- What kind of changes can be "silently" made to a document in /TR -- pending review
16:34:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/47
16:35:13 <koalie> SteveZ: I forgot to close it... [closing]
16:35:39 <koalie> ... all pending review are dealt with
16:35:46 <koalie> ... that takes us to open issues
16:36:04 <koalie> Zakim, close this item
16:36:04 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, koalie
16:36:26 <koalie> q- ch
16:36:29 <koalie> Zakim, close this item
16:36:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
16:36:30 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:36:30 <Zakim> 2. Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84 [from koalie]
16:36:32 <koalie> Zakim, next item
16:36:32 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84" taken up [from koalie]
16:37:02 <Ralph> issue-74?
16:37:02 <trackbot> issue-74 -- Must specs describe next steps? -- open
16:37:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/74
16:37:11 <koalie> chaals: My suggestion is to use a MUST
16:37:22 <koalie> SteveZ: Any objection?
16:37:36 <koalie> SteveZ: Resolved
16:37:40 <chaals> ACTION: chaals to make the setting of expectations / next step in documents a must (ISSUE-74)
16:37:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Make the setting of expectations / next step in documents a must (issue-74) [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-02-03].
16:38:11 <koalie> RESOLUTION: issue-74: change SHOULD to MUST
16:38:19 <koalie> issue-52
16:38:19 <trackbot> issue-52 -- How is satisfying “widely reviewed” encouraged/ensured? -- open
16:38:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/52
16:38:30 <koalie> SteveZ: You still have work to do on that one?
16:38:42 <koalie> chaals: I don't see action related to issue-52
16:39:06 <koalie> SteveZ: ... oh that's issue-77
16:39:55 <koalie> chaals: Do we introduce some formal change? do we adopt Mike's proposal of issue-83? do we decide that beyond addressing 83 we're not going to do anything and this is up to the WG to choose at transition?
16:40:07 <koalie> SteveZ: I'm willing to close this one in favour of issue-83
16:40:14 <koalie> chaals: Mkes sense to me
16:40:19 <koalie> s/Mk/Mak/
16:40:20 <chaals> s/choose at/demonstrate at/
16:40:39 <koalie> issue-52: closing in favour of issue-83
16:40:39 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-52 How is satisfying “widely reviewed” encouraged/ensured?.
16:41:22 <chaals> s/do anything and/do anything more to the document. How to get review is up to the WG and that they did/
16:41:42 <koalie> SteveZ: So we closed issue-52
16:41:56 <koalie> issue-76
16:41:56 <trackbot> issue-76 -- Requirement to document changes between CR publications -- open
16:41:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/76
16:42:23 <koalie> chaals: I'd suggest that next we do this it be an action under issue-77
16:42:53 <koalie> issue-76: tied to issue-77
16:42:53 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-76 Requirement to document changes between CR publications.
16:43:12 <koalie> issue-78
16:43:12 <trackbot> issue-78 -- Requirements for public discussion and wide review of rescindment request are redundant -- open
16:43:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/78
16:43:48 <koalie> chaals: Ian wants to simplify the requirements for rescinding recommendation
16:43:55 <koalie> ... he says there's a redundant step
16:44:07 <koalie> ... if you clarify that WG makes request and the Director decides
16:44:11 <koalie> ... I agree with the issue
16:44:27 <koalie> ... it takes a bit of shuffling of the text on rescinding recommendation
16:44:50 <koalie> ... basically there's a statement that you can rescind on public comment
16:45:11 <koalie> ... Ian's proposal is: The request may come from the WG and the Director is to decide.
16:45:37 <koalie> SteveZ: There may be no WG to rescind. In fact it's likely.
16:46:08 <koalie> chaals: The director is likely to ask where the public comment is.
16:46:28 <koalie> SteveZ: I agree
16:46:30 <chaals> s/The director/In the case where a request comes from a WG the Director/
16:46:55 <koalie> SteveZ: You want to get rid of the "should" bullet?
16:46:59 <koalie> chaals: Yes
16:47:05 <koalie> SteveZ: Mike, Ralph?
16:47:08 <koalie> [no comment]
16:48:00 <koalie> RESOLUTION: issue-78 Drop the Should bullet in @@@
16:49:02 <koalie> s/in @@@/in 7.8/
16:50:58 <koalie> issue-83
16:50:58 <trackbot> issue-83 -- Explicitly allow WGs to customize process steps in their charters -- open
16:50:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/83
16:51:05 <koalie> chaals: I propose we add: Groups are welcome to create their own additional procedures. A status of information is available
16:51:34 <koalie> ... and I suggest we move the rest of that issue
16:51:35 <chaals> ACTION: chaals to put an informative note in saying specific work items may have added custom process (ISSUE-83)
16:51:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Put an informative note in saying specific work items may have added custom process (issue-83) [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-02-03].
16:53:18 <Ralph> [a Group should only be able to add to this Process, not drop steps listed here]
16:53:20 <koalie> SteveZ: My preferred reason for sticking it in the charter is because of charter review
16:53:45 <koalie> SteveZ: issue-83 goes from open to pending review
16:53:52 <koalie> issue-84
16:53:52 <trackbot> issue-84 -- Reinstate Proposed Recommendation -- open
16:53:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/84
16:54:32 <koalie> chaals: This is a blocker for issue-77, my proposal is to reinstate Proposed Recommendationa
16:54:38 <koalie> s/tiona/tion/
16:54:51 <koalie> SteveZ: doesn't trigger patent review, or anything?
16:54:59 <koalie> chaals: It triggers a stop clock
16:55:42 <koalie> SteveZ: another comment. An entry requirement is that the final patent exclusion period has ended
16:56:39 <koalie> chaals: the clock is there, the should requirement is there to ensure you know what you're doing
16:57:01 <koalie> SteveZ: I'm ok with a should.
16:58:02 <koalie> RESOLUTION: issue-84: reinstate proposed recommendation that says that 4 weeks remain in the AC Review period and has no other consequences.
16:58:16 <koalie> SteveZ: issue-84 is now pending review
16:58:36 <koalie> Zakim, close this item
16:58:37 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
16:58:37 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:58:37 <Zakim> 3. Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review [from koalie]
16:58:43 <koalie> Zakim, next item
16:58:43 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review" taken up [from koalie]
16:59:09 <koalie> SteveZ: We should be thinking about how to get to a full document for review at the March AB f2f
16:59:27 <koalie> ... chaals said issue-77 will require a lot of work
16:59:43 <koalie> ... I'm going to be incommunicado most of February
17:00:04 <koalie> chaals: I don't see any complication at all in checking references and dependencies
17:00:21 <koalie> Topic: Next meeting
17:00:34 <koalie> SteveZ: Next meeting next Monday 3-Feb
17:01:04 <koalie> chaals: Would it be annoying to hold that meeting one hour later?
17:01:32 <koalie> chaals: nevermind, I can do it at this time
17:01:41 <koalie> SteveZ: Thanks everyone
17:01:45 <koalie> ... adjourned.
17:01:49 <koalie> Zakim, list attendees
17:01:49 <Zakim> -chaals
17:01:49 <Zakim> -Mike_Champion
17:01:49 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been koalie, +1.206.675.aaaa, SteveZ, Mike_Champion, Ralph, [IPcaller], chaals
17:01:50 <Zakim> -SteveZ
17:02:00 <koalie> Zakim, drop me
17:02:00 <Zakim> koalie is being disconnected
17:02:01 <Zakim> -koalie
17:02:35 <koalie> make
17:02:37 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
17:02:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/27-w3process-minutes.html koalie
17:04:05 <koalie> koalie has changed the topic to: next CHAP7 meeting: 3-Feb
17:04:29 <Zakim> -Ralph
17:04:30 <Zakim> Team_JEFF()11:00AM has ended
17:04:30 <Zakim> Attendees were koalie, +1.206.675.aaaa, SteveZ, Mike_Champion, Ralph, [IPcaller], chaals
17:26:11 <koalie> issue-72: see action-27
17:26:11 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-72 Rationalising the definition of different types of change.
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