14:55:22 RRSAgent has joined #eval 14:55:22 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/09-eval-irc 14:55:24 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:55:24 Zakim has joined #eval 14:55:26 Zakim, this will be 3825 14:55:26 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 14:55:27 Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference 14:55:27 Date: 09 January 2014 14:56:53 Vivienne has joined #eval 14:57:00 Kathy has joined #eval 14:57:28 WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started 14:57:35 +Shadi 14:57:39 +Kathy_Wahlbin 14:58:06 +[IPcaller] 14:58:12 zakim, IPcaller isme 14:58:12 I don't understand 'IPcaller isme', Vivienne 14:58:17 zakim, IPcaller is me 14:58:17 +Vivienne; got it 15:00:57 agarrison has joined #eval 15:00:58 Liz has joined #eval 15:01:10 running a couple of minutes late 15:01:55 +Liz 15:03:22 MartijnHoutepen has joined #eval 15:03:49 +[IPcaller] 15:03:50 zakim, ipcaller is agarrison 15:03:50 +agarrison; got it 15:04:05 +MartijnHoutepen 15:04:52 Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval 15:05:58 +Sarah_Swierenga 15:06:27 happy newyear! 15:06:57 scribe: MartijnHoutepen 15:07:06 Zakim, mute me 15:07:08 MartijnHoutepen should now be muted 15:07:17 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129 15:07:31 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131129 15:07:50 SAZ: we published editor draft in november, now trying to wrap up comments 15:08:15 SAZ: hopefully working towards our last working draft 15:08:43 + +1.248.342.aaaa 15:09:07 SAZ: other groups are reviewing our draft s.a. WCAG, ERT 15:10:11 SAZ: some comments are still open 15:11:25 Detlev has joined #eval 15:11:47 sorry - was an hour too early, now too late.. phh... 15:11:55 topic: open comments in DoC 15:11:56 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-evaltf/2014Jan/0004.html 15:13:09 +Detlev 15:13:23 zakim, mute me 15:13:23 Vivienne should now be muted 15:13:33 SAZ: comment 18,27,33: we suggested "essential functionality" instead of "core" 15:13:35 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment18 15:14:10 SAZ: does anybody have another suggestion for this wording? 15:14:22 q+ 15:14:23 'essential' works for me 15:14:37 ack me 15:15:03 DF: whatever we pick, we'll always have comments 15:15:44 Mike_Elledge has joined #eval 15:15:56 SAZ: we'll keep essential for now 15:16:14 I'm happy with essential for now 15:16:43 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment53 15:17:49 q+ 15:18:27 SAZ: comment 53 suggested we give extra guidance on responsive webdesign 15:18:40 Mike_Elledge_ has joined #eval 15:19:43 Mike_Elledge has joined #eval 15:19:48 KW: if content is hidden in the mobile version of the website, this could be considered as another page 15:21:46 SAZ: in the section "scope of applicability" the extent of the website is described, testing of mobile websites is part of another section 15:21:51 ack det 15:22:12 KW: we need guidance on what to do with mobile versions of the same site 15:22:34 Suggested Text [[Note: Websites using responsive design techniques (i.e. adapting the presentation according to user hardware, software, and preferences) as opposed to redirecting the user to a different location are not considered to be independent website versions unless the site at the different breakpoints utilizes different code. In that case, the website at the different breakpoints could be considered as individual websites each for evaluation.]] 15:23:02 DF: Agree, different breakpoints can change the website in very different ways, we need to acknowledge this 15:23:36 q+ 15:25:21 ack ag 15:26:04 AG: this fits under "use cases" 15:26:56 q+ 15:27:03 q+ 15:27:07 SAZ: in several steps, f.e. step 4, but i don't know if it constitutes different websites 15:27:40 ack det 15:27:42 AG: seeing this as different website could be problematic for users 15:28:19 DF: I wouldn't treat this as a different website, but we can include it as a certain "state" of a page 15:28:46 ack me 15:28:51 ack kath 15:29:22 KW: agree with DF, we can incorporate it in step 3 & 4 15:29:40 zakim, mute me 15:29:40 Detlev should now be muted 15:31:13 SAZ: we can add it to scope of applicability, and mention it at the page states, and in step 4 15:31:25 KW: agree 15:32:06 under particulor types of website we add another item: website using responsive design 15:32:35 Decision: under "particular types of websites" we add another item: website using responsive design 15:32:42 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment43 15:32:48 topic: comment 43 15:33:49 Shadi, has the third scoring option already been deleted? 15:34:19 fine 15:34:24 SAZ: the "per instance score" is dropped as agreed 15:34:39 q+ 15:35:06 ack me 15:36:44 DF: people will be able to make scores for themselves anyway, so it doesnt matter that much. Agree with Gregg V that it's debateable. Not happy to drop it, but can see the point 15:37:49 SAZ: will be discussed in WCAG call tuesday 15:37:56 17:00 CET 15:38:07 q+ 15:38:12 zakim, ack me 15:38:12 unmuting Vivienne 15:38:13 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:39:01 q+ 15:39:41 q+ 15:39:44 VC: People will come up with there own scoring, i think it's necessary to give some guidance on scoring, but we needn't prescribe a way how it should be done 15:39:49 ack liz 15:40:36 q- 15:41:09 LF: We talked about having an addendum to this document, with a paper on different kinds of scoring methodologies. "although we don't dictate how to score, see .... for further information" 15:41:33 +q 15:41:47 LF: NIST has come up with a weighted scoring system, this could be referenced 15:42:38 SAZ: we now offer the most simplest form of scoring; do we need to remove this? 15:43:33 http://www.w3.org/community/wai-engage/ 15:43:59 q+ 15:44:09 SAZ: WAI-engage is the place for this kind of suggestions 15:44:13 ack mike 15:44:52 ME: problematic to put any scoring system in the body of the document, the process of scoring websites is too complex 15:45:55 ME: an alternative: "although WCAG-em doesn't recommend any scoring method, but see reference X for guidance..." 15:46:25 thanks! 15:46:52 Tim has joined #eval 15:47:04 ME: we can establish criteria to use when choosing scoring methods 15:47:35 q+ 15:47:58 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/ 15:48:15 http://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-metrics-report/ 15:48:34 ack ag 15:48:47 AG: we can just remove everything, because it is too complex 15:49:13 SAZ: we can reference a wiki, where all scoring methods can be collected 15:50:11 ack det 15:50:33 +Tim_Boland 15:50:41 AG: in different studies, different scoring methods are use in the context of that study, so not all methods can be extrapolated 15:51:46 DF: we now have the minimum of scoring methods, but i'd like to keep it in, as optional 15:52:20 SAZ: score methodology draws focus away from conformance 15:52:34 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment50 15:52:47 topic: comment 50 15:53:29 q+ 15:53:35 zakim, ack me 15:53:35 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:53:57 zakim, mute me 15:53:57 Detlev should now be muted 15:54:10 VF: First letter capilisation 15:54:19 fine to me 15:55:00 +1 15:55:40 zakim, mute me 15:55:40 Vivienne should now be muted 15:55:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment49 15:56:02 [[Following this methodology will help evaluators to apply good practice, avoid commonly made mistakes, and achieve more comparable results]] 15:56:09 q+ 15:56:31 zakim, ack me 15:56:31 unmuting Vivienne 15:56:32 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:56:40 topic: comment 49 15:56:54 VF: the "to" has to come out 15:56:56 out with the 'to' :-) 15:57:21 don't need the final comma either... 15:57:59 SAZ: please review the comments, especially your own 15:58:19 SAZ: if all goes well, we can get agreement with WCAG WG 15:58:41 bye to all! 15:58:41 ack me 15:58:44 -Tim_Boland 15:58:45 -Detlev 15:58:46 good night. 15:58:46 bye 15:58:46 -agarrison 15:58:48 bye 15:58:50 -Kathy_Wahlbin 15:58:53 -Shadi 15:58:54 -Vivienne 15:59:09 -Liz 15:59:18 -Sarah_Swierenga 15:59:26 shadi, will you finish up ? 16:01:13 Kathy has left #eval 16:02:00 yes, thank you 16:02:22 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:02:22 On the phone I see MartijnHoutepen, +1.248.342.aaaa 16:02:43 zakim, aaaa is Mike 16:02:43 +Mike; got it 16:02:48 zakim, drop aaaa 16:02:48 sorry, shadi, I do not see a party named 'aaaa' 16:02:54 zakim, drop mike 16:02:55 Mike is being disconnected 16:02:55 -Mike 16:03:00 zakim, drop mart 16:03:00 MartijnHoutepen is being disconnected 16:03:01 WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended 16:03:01 Attendees were Shadi, Kathy_Wahlbin, Vivienne, Liz, agarrison, MartijnHoutepen, Sarah_Swierenga, +1.248.342.aaaa, Detlev, Tim_Boland, Mike 16:03:15 trackbot, end meeting 16:03:15 Zakim, list attendees 16:03:15 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 16:03:23 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:03:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/09-eval-minutes.html trackbot 16:03:24 RRSAgent, bye 16:03:24 I see no action items