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14:44:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-irc ←
14:44:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:44:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2 ←
14:44:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
14:44:05 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:44:05 <trackbot> Date: 11 November 2009
14:44:41 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
14:44:46 <Tina> Steven: then I've not ... bah. Be right there.
Steven Pemberton: then I've not ... bah. Be right there. [ Scribe Assist by Tina Holmboe ] ←
14:44:48 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:45:22 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
14:45:22 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
14:45:23 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:45:26 <oedipus> agenda request - XHTML Role and ARIA and extension of roles in aria and expansion of pre-defined roles, in particular "form"
Gregory Rosmaita: agenda request - XHTML Role and ARIA and extension of roles in aria and expansion of pre-defined roles, in particular "form" ←
14:45:42 <Tina> Zakim, code?
Tina Holmboe: Zakim, code? ←
14:45:42 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Tina ←
14:46:02 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here? ←
14:46:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven ←
14:46:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, oedipus, Steven, markbirbeck, Tina, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, oedipus, Steven, markbirbeck, Tina, trackbot ←
14:46:17 <Zakim> +Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina ←
14:46:29 <oedipus> using the web based IRC client, so not very feedback
Gregory Rosmaita: using the web based IRC client, so not very feedback ←
14:46:48 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
14:47:01 <alessio> zakim, +??P2 is Alessio
Alessio Cartocci: zakim, +??P2 is Alessio ←
14:47:01 <Zakim> sorry, alessio, I do not recognize a party named '+??P2'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alessio, I do not recognize a party named '+??P2' ←
14:47:06 <alessio> zakim, ??P2 is Alessio
Alessio Cartocci: zakim, ??P2 is Alessio ←
14:47:06 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←
14:47:37 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Nov/0000
14:48:02 <Zakim> +McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←
14:48:30 <oedipus> addition of the term "form" as a predefined role for the XHTML2 Role Module: XHTML2 WG ISSUE-5: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/issues/5
Gregory Rosmaita: addition of the term "form" as a predefined role for the XHTML2 Role Module: XHTML2 WG ISSUE-5: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/issues/5 ←
14:48:30 <Zakim> -McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: -McCarron ←
14:48:42 <ShaneM> low tech crap
Shane McCarron: low tech crap ←
14:48:56 <Zakim> +McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←
14:49:06 <oedipus> shane's proposal in email archive: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0055.html
Gregory Rosmaita: shane's proposal in email archive: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0055.html ←
14:49:09 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
14:49:13 <Steven> My phone died
Steven Pemberton: My phone died ←
14:49:35 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
14:49:35 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
14:49:36 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:50:15 <Steven> zakim, drop steven
Steven Pemberton: zakim, drop steven ←
14:50:15 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Steven is being disconnected ←
14:50:16 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
14:50:19 <ShaneM> we got your voice mail. lol
Shane McCarron: we got your voice mail. lol ←
14:50:32 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
14:50:32 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
14:50:34 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:51:11 <ShaneM> again
Shane McCarron: again ←
14:51:21 <oedipus> best thing about the cold is you can always get warmer, can only do so much oneself to cool
Gregory Rosmaita: best thing about the cold is you can always get warmer, can only do so much oneself to cool ←
14:51:28 <ShaneM> zakim, drop steven
Shane McCarron: zakim, drop steven ←
14:51:28 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Steven is being disconnected ←
14:51:29 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
14:52:07 <Steven> zakim, code?
Steven Pemberton: zakim, code? ←
14:52:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven ←
14:52:22 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:52:35 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
14:53:29 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
14:53:29 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
14:53:31 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:53:51 <oedipus> XHTML Role agenda addendum
Gregory Rosmaita: XHTML Role agenda addendum ←
14:53:56 <oedipus> 1. extensibility and ARIA
Gregory Rosmaita: 1. extensibility and ARIA ←
14:54:01 <oedipus> 2. expansion of predefined role (in particular, "form")
Gregory Rosmaita: 2. expansion of predefined role (in particular, "form") ←
14:54:05 <oedipus> 3. exact relationship between ARIA and XHTML Role (ARIA LC Comments from XHTML2)
Gregory Rosmaita: 3. exact relationship between ARIA and XHTML Role (ARIA LC Comments from XHTML2) ←
14:54:28 <Zakim> -McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: -McCarron ←
14:54:42 <ShaneM> its a conspriacy
Shane McCarron: its a conspriacy ←
14:54:49 <alessio> :D
Alessio Cartocci: :D ←
14:54:57 <Steven> Agenda+Announcements
Steven Pemberton: Agenda+Announcements ←
14:55:08 <Steven> Agenda+DOM3 Events
Steven Pemberton: Agenda+DOM3 Events ←
14:55:13 <Steven> Agenda+PERs
Steven Pemberton: Agenda+PERs ←
14:55:21 <Steven> Agenda+ARIA
Steven Pemberton: Agenda+ARIA ←
14:55:24 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
14:55:39 <Steven> Agenda+XHTML2
Steven Pemberton: Agenda+XHTML2 ←
14:55:52 <Steven> zakim, next agendum
Steven Pemberton: zakim, next agendum ←
14:55:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Announcements" taken up [from Steven]
14:56:04 <Steven> scribe: Steven
(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)
created using i/SP: last/ScribeNick: oedipus
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
14:57:09 <oedipus> SP: last week TPAC 2009 -- not very much to report -- relation to this WG, one HTML5 discussion on distributed extensibility - only discussed issues we knew about, no action items assigned - 2 sides expanding their positions without agreement on how to procede
Steven Pemberton: last week TPAC 2009 -- not very much to report -- relation to this WG, one HTML5 discussion on distributed extensibility - only discussed issues we knew about, no action items assigned - 2 sides expanding their positions without agreement on how to procede ←
14:57:36 <oedipus> SP: continuing stream of discussions we've been having at the last several TPACs -- disappointed at lack of traction
Steven Pemberton: continuing stream of discussions we've been having at the last several TPACs -- disappointed at lack of traction ←
14:57:57 <oedipus> i/SP: last/ScribeNick: oedipus
14:58:43 <oedipus> GJR: there is now a HTML5 - PF HTML5 Accessibility Task Force
Gregory Rosmaita: there is now a HTML5 - PF HTML5 Accessibility Task Force ←
14:59:28 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force ←
15:00:10 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/ ←
15:00:15 <Tina> oedipus: noticed that. Disappointed.
Gregory Rosmaita: noticed that. Disappointed. [ Scribe Assist by Tina Holmboe ] ←
15:01:13 <oedipus> zakim, next agendum
zakim, next agendum ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> agendum 2. "DOM3 Events" taken up [from Steven]
15:01:26 <oedipus> SP: web content transformation needs to be reviewed -- by me
Steven Pemberton: web content transformation needs to be reviewed -- by me ←
15:01:47 <oedipus> SP: now Oasis member - will keep WG updated
Steven Pemberton: now Oasis member - will keep WG updated ←
15:02:01 <oedipus> SP: emessage from Doug Schepers about changes to DOM3 events
Steven Pemberton: emessage from Doug Schepers about changes to DOM3 events ←
15:02:20 <oedipus> SP: XML Events now uses DOM2 so not particularly germane
Steven Pemberton: XML Events now uses DOM2 so not particularly germane ←
15:02:31 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Oct/0016
Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Oct/0016 ←
15:02:36 <oedipus> SP: still anyone interested should review
Steven Pemberton: still anyone interested should review ←
15:02:49 <oedipus> SP: Forms WG is planning on taking XML Events 2 on board
Steven Pemberton: Forms WG is planning on taking XML Events 2 on board ←
created using i/SP: PERs/topic: PERs
15:02:56 <oedipus> SP: PERs - no progress
Steven Pemberton: PERs - no progress ←
15:03:16 <oedipus> SP: sent email to Ralph & PLH to re-draw attention to requests
Steven Pemberton: sent email to Ralph & PLH to re-draw attention to requests ←
15:03:49 <oedipus> SM: cannot finish our work before end of term of WG
Shane McCarron: cannot finish our work before end of term of WG ←
15:04:45 <oedipus> SP: needs thought and discussion - will fire up email to R & PLH to say we can't meet deadlines because of delay in feedback and a stopper in the process
Steven Pemberton: needs thought and discussion - will fire up email to R & PLH to say we can't meet deadlines because of delay in feedback and a stopper in the process ←
15:05:25 <oedipus> i/SP: PERs/topic: PERs
15:05:31 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:05:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:06:18 <oedipus> topic: XHTML Role and ARIA
15:06:23 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)
15:06:33 <Steven> Gregory: THere are 3 issues
Gregory Rosmaita: There are 3 issues ←
15:06:38 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
15:06:50 <Steven> ... first the ARIA extensibility, using @role
... first the ARIA extensibility, using @role ←
15:07:00 <Steven> ... we need to be more specific about extensibility
... we need to be more specific about extensibility ←
15:07:14 <Steven> ... we want to point to XHTML role
... we want to point to XHTML role ←
15:07:39 <Steven> Steven: We need someone to take over role
Steven Pemberton: We need someone to take over role ←
15:07:51 <Steven> ... couls you not do that?
... could you not do that? ←
15:08:02 <Steven> s/couls/could/
15:08:20 <Steven> Shane: I will do the work, but we need a WG
Shane McCarron: I will do the work, but we need a WG ←
15:08:41 <Steven> Gewgory: I am also working on the access module
Scribe problem: the name 'Gewgory' does not match any of the 24 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Mohamed ZERGAOUI Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Gewgory: I am also working on the access module ←
15:08:51 <Steven> ... for HTML5
... for HTML5 ←
15:09:12 <Steven> Shane: Manu in RDFa has created a way of making modules for HTML5
Shane McCarron: Manu in RDFa has created a way of making modules for HTML5 ←
15:09:21 <Steven> Gregory: Can you send me a pointer?
Gregory Rosmaita: Can you send me a pointer? ←
15:09:49 <Steven> Steven: Woyuld the WAI group take role over?
Steven Pemberton: Would the WAI group take role over? ←
15:10:01 <Steven> s/Woy/Wo
15:10:09 <Steven> Gregory: PF meets at 12
Gregory Rosmaita: PF meets at 12 ←
15:10:43 <Steven> ... if ARIA follows role extensibility, we would need to be able to point to it
... if ARIA follows role extensibility, we would need to be able to point to it ←
15:11:04 <Steven> Steven: Either copy the content or take over the role spec
Steven Pemberton: Either copy the content or take over the role spec ←
15:11:35 <ShaneM> Role can refer to the CURIE definition in RDFa - it is normative and already a rec
Shane McCarron: Role can refer to the CURIE definition in RDFa - it is normative and already a rec ←
15:11:41 <Steven> Action: Gregory to ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec
ACTION: Gregory to ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec ←
15:11:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-11-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-101 - Ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-11-18]. ←
15:12:06 <Steven> Gergory: THis helps is with the third point
Scribe problem: the name 'Gergory' does not match any of the 24 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Mohamed ZERGAOUI Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Gergory: This helps is with the third point ←
15:12:11 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
15:12:40 <Steven> ... the last issue I have, on predefined roles, can be answered later
... the last issue I have, on predefined roles, can be answered later ←
15:12:49 <Steven> ... I see value in having a role module
... I see value in having a role module ←
15:13:24 <Steven> ... I want role to be a real module so that it isn't just seen as an accessibility hook
... I want role to be a real module so that it isn't just seen as an accessibility hook ←
15:13:34 <Steven> ... it can help with loads of other things
... it can help with loads of other things ←
15:13:56 <ShaneM> I wonder if it makes sense to define role-related extensions to rdfa?
Shane McCarron: I wonder if it makes sense to define role-related extensions to rdfa? ←
15:14:09 <oedipus> zakim, next agendum
Gregory Rosmaita: zakim, next agendum ←
15:14:09 <Zakim> agendum 3. "PERs" taken up [from Steven]
15:14:15 <oedipus> zakim, next agendum
Gregory Rosmaita: zakim, next agendum ←
15:14:15 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, oedipus
Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3 was just opened, oedipus ←
15:14:38 <Steven> zakim, agend?
zakim, agend? ←
15:14:38 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Steven.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, Steven. ←
15:14:40 <oedipus> zakim, agendum 5
Gregory Rosmaita: zakim, agendum 5 ←
15:14:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agendum 5', oedipus
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'agendum 5', oedipus ←
15:14:42 <Steven> zakim, agenda?
zakim, agenda? ←
15:14:42 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
Zakim IRC Bot: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda: ←
15:14:42 <Zakim> 3. PERs [from Steven]
Zakim IRC Bot: 3. PERs [from Steven] ←
15:14:43 <Zakim> 4. ARIA [from Steven]
Zakim IRC Bot: 4. ARIA [from Steven] ←
15:14:43 <Zakim> 5. XHTML2 [from Steven]
Zakim IRC Bot: 5. XHTML2 [from Steven] ←
15:14:55 <Steven> zakim, drop agendum 3
zakim, drop agendum 3 ←
15:14:55 <Zakim> agendum 3, PERs, dropped
Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3, PERs, dropped ←
15:15:14 <Steven> zakim, take up agendum 5
zakim, take up agendum 5 ←
15:15:14 <Zakim> agendum 5. "XHTML2" taken up [from Steven]
15:15:23 <oedipus> scribenick: oedipus
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
15:15:35 <oedipus> SP: have a draft - thanks to shane for completing latest draft
Steven Pemberton: have a draft - thanks to shane for completing latest draft ←
15:15:48 <oedipus> SP: what do we as WG need to do to publish as final note, shane?
Steven Pemberton: what do we as WG need to do to publish as final note, shane? ←
15:16:34 <oedipus> SM: [ponders] - aside from changing text to say "Note", also need to change Status section
Shane McCarron: [ponders] - aside from changing text to say "Note", also need to change Status section ←
15:16:49 <oedipus> SM: no technical work needed for Note
Shane McCarron: no technical work needed for Note ←
15:17:13 <oedipus> SP: list of open issues - keep them or dispose of them through pass-off? change status to say work will continue elsewhere?
Steven Pemberton: list of open issues - keep them or dispose of them through pass-off? change status to say work will continue elsewhere? ←
15:17:18 <oedipus> SM: does W3C know that
Shane McCarron: does W3C know that ←
15:17:21 <oedipus> SP: told them
Steven Pemberton: told them ←
15:18:05 <oedipus> SM: what to put in status section
Shane McCarron: what to put in status section ←
15:18:13 <oedipus> SP: if note, prefer to dispose of issues first
Steven Pemberton: if note, prefer to dispose of issues first ←
15:18:18 <oedipus> SM: we can do that
Shane McCarron: we can do that ←
15:18:37 <ShaneM> Wouldn't publish with the issues embedded.
Shane McCarron: Wouldn't publish with the issues embedded. ←
15:19:43 <oedipus> proposed resolution: XHTML 2 will be a Note; Status of Document to change to reflect that work will continue elsewhere
proposed resolution: XHTML 2 will be a Note; Status of Document to change to reflect that work will continue elsewhere ←
15:22:23 <oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/
http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/ ←
15:23:08 <oedipus> "Implementors should be aware that this specification is not stable. Implementors who are not taking part in the discussions are likely to find the specification changing out from under them in incompatible ways. Vendors interested in implementing this specification before it eventually reaches the Candidate Recommendation stage should join the aforementioned mailing lists and take part in the discussions."
"Implementors should be aware that this specification is not stable. Implementors who are not taking part in the discussions are likely to find the specification changing out from under them in incompatible ways. Vendors interested in implementing this specification before it eventually reaches the Candidate Recommendation stage should join the aforementioned mailing lists and take part in the discussions." ←
15:24:15 <oedipus> RESOLVED: XHTML2 will be a W3C Note; accordingly the Status of this Document section will be updated to reflect change
RESOLVED: XHTML2 will be a W3C Note; accordingly the Status of this Document section will be updated to reflect change ←
15:24:20 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minute
rrsagent, make minute ←
15:24:20 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minute', oedipus. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minute', oedipus. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
15:24:30 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:24:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:26:10 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/XHTML2/pre_obsolete
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/XHTML2/pre_obsolete ←
15:29:03 <oedipus> "Optimally, one would want to use a character entity code to indicate a TAB or multiple TABs, as some programming languages use TAB delineation, and the purpose of CODE and BLOCKCODE is to ENSURE that any user can copy and paste the sample of CODE, with whitespaces and explicitly declared TABs preserved."
"Optimally, one would want to use a character entity code to indicate a TAB or multiple TABs, as some programming languages use TAB delineation, and the purpose of CODE and BLOCKCODE is to ENSURE that any user can copy and paste the sample of CODE, with whitespaces and explicitly declared TABs preserved." ←
15:29:54 <oedipus> PROPOSED 2: That the definition of CODE and BLOCKCODE be amended to indicate that whitespace, line breaks, and other "layout" compenents contained within CODE or BLOCKCODE is intended to be preserved, and that all current references to the PRE element be removed. An authoring tool could very easily translate individual spaces and other dilimeters (such as TAB) into the UTF-8 codes for a non-breaking whitespace and/or a TAB or TABs. This is also a strategy whi
PROPOSED 2: That the definition of CODE and BLOCKCODE be amended to indicate that whitespace, line breaks, and other "layout" compenents contained within CODE or BLOCKCODE is intended to be preserved, and that all current references to the PRE element be removed. An authoring tool could very easily translate individual spaces and other dilimeters (such as TAB) into the UTF-8 codes for a non-breaking whitespace and/or a TAB or TABs. This is also a strategy whi ←
15:30:36 <oedipus> SP: haven't heard what real damage pre does that anything else would solve?
Steven Pemberton: haven't heard what real damage pre does that anything else would solve? ←
15:30:59 <oedipus> SP: in favor of people being able to work with XHTML2 - PRE syntaxtic sugar, but familiar
Steven Pemberton: in favor of people being able to work with XHTML2 - PRE syntaxtic sugar, but familiar ←
15:32:31 <oedipus> GJR: for code and programming samples, should use CODE or BLOCKCODE
Gregory Rosmaita: for code and programming samples, should use CODE or BLOCKCODE ←
15:33:26 <oedipus> SP: taking PRE away will not cause solution to happen - nothing in replacement for PRE which will change current usage patterns
Steven Pemberton: taking PRE away will not cause solution to happen - nothing in replacement for PRE which will change current usage patterns ←
15:34:14 <oedipus> treat PRE in XHTML2 the way that blockquote for style was treated in HTML 4.01 -- deprecated for indentation purposes
treat PRE in XHTML2 the way that blockquote for style was treated in HTML 4.01 -- deprecated for indentation purposes ←
15:34:43 <oedipus> SP: PRE as generic container can be ill used, but if take away people will use P with layout attribute
Steven Pemberton: PRE as generic container can be ill used, but if take away people will use P with layout attribute ←
15:34:45 <oedipus> AC: agree
Alessio Cartocci: agree ←
15:34:48 <oedipus> GJR: understood
Gregory Rosmaita: understood ←
15:35:30 <oedipus> SP: agree that PRE has problem being rendered by assistive tech, but eliminating PRE won't solve the problem GJR pointed out
Steven Pemberton: agree that PRE has problem being rendered by assistive tech, but eliminating PRE won't solve the problem GJR pointed out ←
15:36:01 <oedipus> SP: not in favor of taking out PRE
Steven Pemberton: not in favor of taking out PRE ←
15:36:13 <oedipus> GJR: we currently have PRE, CODE, BLOCKCODE, and SAMP
Gregory Rosmaita: we currently have PRE, CODE, BLOCKCODE, and SAMP ←
15:36:18 <oedipus> SP: SAMP is inline
Steven Pemberton: SAMP is inline ←
15:36:39 <oedipus> GJR: will port issue to further work on XHTML2 when that work is consumated
Gregory Rosmaita: will port issue to further work on XHTML2 when that work is consumated ←
15:36:56 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to produce a note version of XHTML 2
ACTION: Shane to produce a note version of XHTML 2 ←
15:36:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Produce a note version of XHTML 2 [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-11-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-102 - Produce a note version of XHTML 2 [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-11-18]. ←
15:37:23 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
15:37:24 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
15:37:25 <Zakim> -Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←
15:37:28 <Zakim> -Alessio
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio ←
15:37:34 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:37:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
15:37:46 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here? ←
15:37:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita ←
15:37:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, oedipus, Steven, markbirbeck, Tina, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ShaneM, alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, oedipus, Steven, markbirbeck, Tina, trackbot ←
15:37:52 <oedipus> SM: anyone with earthshattering changes to XHTML2 as currently defined in the draft are requested to email shane and the list before change to note
Shane McCarron: anyone with earthshattering changes to XHTML2 as currently defined in the draft are requested to email shane and the list before change to note ←
15:37:53 <Steven> zakim, dro pgregory
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dro pgregory ←
15:37:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'dro pgregory', Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'dro pgregory', Steven ←
15:37:59 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←
15:38:00 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←
15:38:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Tina, Alessio, McCarron, ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Tina, Alessio, McCarron, ShaneM ←
15:38:09 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:38:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
15:38:40 <oedipus> chair: Steven
15:38:51 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:38:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
Formatted by CommonScribe