None.
There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.
It may be helpful to
14:40:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-irc ←
14:40:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:40:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2 ←
14:40:54 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
14:40:55 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:40:55 <trackbot> Date: 21 January 2009
14:41:08 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Jan/0054.html
14:41:58 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
14:42:05 <Zakim> +Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←
14:42:10 <Roland> Chair: Roland
14:42:34 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:42:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland ←
14:42:42 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
14:42:51 <Roland> Regrets: Alessio, Mark
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markus Gylling Mark Birbeck . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
14:43:01 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:43:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland ←
14:44:55 <Zakim> + +2
Zakim IRC Bot: + +2 ←
14:48:14 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
14:48:14 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
14:48:16 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:49:23 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here? ←
14:49:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, +2, Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, +2, Steven ←
14:49:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, Roland, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, Roland, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot ←
14:49:49 <Steven> zakim, 2 is mgylling
Steven Pemberton: zakim, 2 is mgylling ←
14:49:49 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '2'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '2' ←
14:49:57 <Steven> zakim, +2 is mgylling
Steven Pemberton: zakim, +2 is mgylling ←
14:49:57 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it ←
14:50:16 <Steven> scribe: Steven
(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)
14:50:37 <Steven> Topic: CURIEs
14:50:49 <Steven> Roland: Curies have gone to CR
Roland Merrick: Curies have gone to CR ←
14:51:06 <Steven> Steven: Let's talk about test suites
Steven Pemberton: Let's talk about test suites ←
14:51:19 <Steven> Roland: Soes the RDFa test suite cover all features?
Roland Merrick: Does the RDFa test suite cover all features? ←
14:51:35 <Steven> Shane: It covers all features, there is a datatype that isn't tested, not a feature per se
Shane McCarron: It covers all features, there is a datatype that isn't tested, not a feature per se ←
14:51:49 <Steven> s/Soes/Does/
14:52:10 <Steven> Shane: I've grabbed the test ahrness and I am extractinng the CURIE tests
Shane McCarron: I've grabbed the test harness and I am extractinng the CURIE tests ←
14:52:19 <Steven> s/ahrn/harn/
14:52:27 <Steven> Shane: Harder than I had expected
Shane McCarron: Harder than I had expected ←
14:52:34 <Tina> Apologies; time slipped away and my phone is not behaving :(
Tina Holmboe: Apologies; time slipped away and my phone is not behaving :( ←
14:52:38 <Steven> ... it's doable
... it's doable ←
14:53:00 <Steven> Steven: Moving the harness to W3C space?
Steven Pemberton: Moving the harness to W3C space? ←
14:53:10 <Steven> Shane: No, and they use a different version of PHP
Shane McCarron: No, and they use a different version of PHP ←
14:53:19 <Steven> ... Ralph has already tried and failed
... Ralph has already tried and failed ←
14:53:40 <Steven> ... when Ralph has fixed it for RDFa, then it will be easy for us
... when Ralph has fixed it for RDFa, then it will be easy for us ←
14:54:01 <Steven> Steven: Good news
Steven Pemberton: Good news ←
14:54:23 <Steven> Roland: Timescale?
Roland Merrick: Timescale? ←
14:54:29 <Steven> Shane: Not sure yet
Shane McCarron: Not sure yet ←
14:55:39 <Steven> Topic: Media types
14:55:50 <Steven> Roland: I see we had comments
Roland Merrick: I see we had comments ←
14:56:20 <Steven> Shane: I sent it to Steven for publication
Shane McCarron: I sent it to Steven for publication ←
14:56:21 <Zakim> +Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina ←
14:57:21 <Steven> Steven: I sent it on to be published, and it had arrived, but Monday was a holiday, and yesterday sort of too, so maybe it's just backed up
Steven Pemberton: I sent it on to be published, and it had arrived, but Monday was a holiday, and yesterday sort of too, so maybe it's just backed up ←
14:57:57 <Steven> Shane: We also got a comment about @lang, and I replied that we can't add it to existing family members, but XHTML 1.2 could
Shane McCarron: We also got a comment about @lang, and I replied that we can't add it to existing family members, but XHTML 1.2 could ←
14:58:40 <Steven> Roland: it is deifnite we can't get it back in?
Roland Merrick: it is definite we can't get it back in? ←
14:58:46 <Steven> Shane: It would break conformance
Shane McCarron: It would break conformance ←
14:58:54 <Steven> s/deif/defi/
14:59:13 <Steven> Roland: Maybe the Mobile web people could do the grunt work to get it into the system,
Roland Merrick: Maybe the Mobile web people could do the grunt work to get it into the system, ←
14:59:37 <Steven> Shane: So you think it is OK to break conformance?
Shane McCarron: So you think it is OK to break conformance? ←
14:59:51 <Steven> Roland: Maybe, not sure.
Roland Merrick: Maybe, not sure. ←
15:01:10 <mgylling> C.7. The lang and xml:lang Attributes
Markus Gylling: C.7. The lang and xml:lang Attributes ←
15:01:10 <mgylling> Use both the lang and xml:lang attributes when specifying the language of an element. The value of the xml:lang attribute takes precedence.
Markus Gylling: Use both the lang and xml:lang attributes when specifying the language of an element. The value of the xml:lang attribute takes precedence. ←
15:01:12 <Steven> Steven: If we say that @lang has no meaning, it wouldn't actually break anything
Steven Pemberton: If we say that @lang has no meaning, it wouldn't actually break anything ←
15:02:15 <Steven> Roland: Why don't we test the waters with the mobile people?
Roland Merrick: Why don't we test the waters with the mobile people? ←
15:02:55 <Steven> ACTION: Roland to talk to the mobile people about allowing @lang
ACTION: Roland to talk to the mobile people about allowing @lang ←
15:02:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Talk to the mobile people about allowing @lang [on Roland Merrick - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-45 - Talk to the mobile people about allowing @lang [on Roland Merrick - due 2009-01-28]. ←
15:03:53 <Steven> Steven: The doc is in the pipeline, as soon as it happens, I'll let you know
Steven Pemberton: The doc is in the pipeline, as soon as it happens, I'll let you know ←
15:04:30 <Steven> Roland: And the other docs are in the pipeline waiting for this to be published
Roland Merrick: And the other docs are in the pipeline waiting for this to be published ←
15:04:35 <Steven> Steven: Yres, that's right
Steven Pemberton: Yes, that's right ←
15:04:40 <Steven> s/res/es/
15:05:22 <Steven> Shane: If someone in autority would say that adding @lang would not vioalte PER, it would be 2 mins to add it to the spec
Shane McCarron: If someone in autority would say that adding @lang would not vioalte PER, it would be 2 mins to add it to the spec ←
15:05:29 <Steven> Roland: We will carry on as we are for now
Roland Merrick: We will carry on as we are for now ←
15:05:54 <Steven> Topic: XHTML2
15:06:07 <Steven> Roland: Shane has asked some questions
Roland Merrick: Shane has asked some questions ←
15:08:47 <Steven> ... so which version of XForms?
... so which version of XForms? ←
15:11:06 <Steven> Steven: 1.1
Steven Pemberton: 1.1 ←
15:11:16 <Steven> Shane: And how does that fit in with XMNL Events 2?
Shane McCarron: And how does that fit in with XMNL Events 2? ←
15:11:26 <Steven> Steven: We need to check that they are consistent
Steven Pemberton: We need to check that they are consistent ←
15:11:48 <Steven> ... XML Events 2 is based on XForms 1.1, so it should be the same, but we need to check
... XML Events 2 is based on XForms 1.1, so it should be the same, but we need to check ←
15:12:12 <Steven> ... XForms 1.1 still references XML Events 1, and adds stuff into its own spec (like RDFa does with CURIEs)
... XForms 1.1 still references XML Events 1, and adds stuff into its own spec (like RDFa does with CURIEs) ←
15:12:34 <Steven> Markus: Is the XForms 1.1 schema chameleon?
Markus Gylling: Is the XForms 1.1 schema chameleon? ←
15:12:39 <Steven> Steven: Yes
Steven Pemberton: Yes ←
15:13:29 <Steven> Steven: so charset and encoding are related (XML Events)
Steven Pemberton: so charset and encoding are related (XML Events) ←
15:14:46 <Steven> Shane: So you think we should allow @charset
Shane McCarron: So you think we should allow @charset ←
15:15:09 <Steven> Steven: Yes, for legacy use (mainly for the javascript + @implements" case)
Steven Pemberton: Yes, for legacy use (mainly for the javascript + @implements" case) ←
15:18:43 <Steven> [Discussion on whether charset or encoding is a better choice]
[Discussion on whether charset or encoding is a better choice] ←
15:21:48 <Steven> Roland: What is the difference? One is a single value and the other a list?
Roland Merrick: What is the difference? One is a single value and the other a list? ←
15:22:01 <Steven> Steven: Yes
Steven Pemberton: Yes ←
15:23:45 <Steven> ... you should look at the definition of charset in HTML4, it really isn't very useful
... you should look at the definition of charset in HTML4, it really isn't very useful ←
15:23:55 <Steven> ... which is why we made @encoding what it is
... which is why we made @encoding what it is ←
15:24:00 <Steven> ... to make it actually useful
... to make it actually useful ←
15:24:31 <Steven> ... I suggest we should say @charset has no meaning
... I suggest we should say @charset has no meaning ←
15:24:40 <Steven> ... and only there for legacy use
... and only there for legacy use ←
15:25:08 <Steven> Roland: It is a compormise I can live with
Roland Merrick: It is a compormise I can live with ←
15:25:21 <Steven> ... so I can specify both if I want
... so I can specify both if I want ←
15:25:48 <Steven> Roland: So the next question is what to do with the script module
Roland Merrick: So the next question is what to do with the script module ←
15:26:34 <Steven> ... I think there should be one module for XHTML 1.2 and 2.0
... I think there should be one module for XHTML 1.2 and 2.0 ←
15:26:57 <Steven> Steven: Isn't script in XML Events 2?
Steven Pemberton: Isn't script in XML Events 2? ←
15:27:01 <Steven> Shane: Yes
Shane McCarron: Yes ←
15:27:08 <Steven> Roland: But it is a separate module
Roland Merrick: But it is a separate module ←
15:28:33 <Steven> q-
q- ←
15:29:09 <Steven> Roland: caption element
Roland Merrick: caption element ←
15:29:24 <Steven> Shane: There are other issues that we need to discuss as well
Shane McCarron: There are other issues that we need to discuss as well ←
15:29:40 <Steven> ... but I may have confused people here
... but I may have confused people here ←
15:29:52 <Steven> ... we use caption on object
... we use caption on object ←
15:30:25 <Steven> ... so my question is really is it OK to split caption out as a module
... so my question is really is it OK to split caption out as a module ←
15:30:36 <Steven> ... and Mark then pointed out that we have label as well
... and Mark then pointed out that we have label as well ←
15:30:55 <Steven> ... and I don't care which we use
... and I don't care which we use ←
15:31:23 <Steven> Roland: We have caption in older versions of XHTML
Roland Merrick: We have caption in older versions of XHTML ←
15:32:47 <Steven> ... and label has other parameters, like ref
... and label has other parameters, like ref ←
15:33:03 <Steven> ... so an unadorned caption in object would be simpler
... so an unadorned caption in object would be simpler ←
15:33:23 <ShaneM> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/htmlwg/xhtml-m12n-2/mod-list.html#edef_list_label
Shane McCarron: http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/htmlwg/xhtml-m12n-2/mod-list.html#edef_list_label ←
15:33:29 <Steven> Shane: The label in the list module is a different one (no @ref)
Shane McCarron: The label in the list module is a different one (no @ref) ←
15:33:52 <Steven> Markus: Perhaps it should be caption on lists then...
Markus Gylling: Perhaps it should be caption on lists then... ←
15:34:36 <Steven> Steven: It would certainly be confusing for the user if label had different meanings in different places
Steven Pemberton: It would certainly be confusing for the user if label had different meanings in different places ←
15:35:01 <Steven> Shane: Good point. I think that caption should be drawn out into its own module
Shane McCarron: Good point. I think that caption should be drawn out into its own module ←
15:35:04 <Steven> Steven: Agree
Steven Pemberton: Agree ←
15:35:17 <mgylling> +1
Markus Gylling: +1 ←
15:35:17 <Steven> Shane: So should we use caption in lists?
Shane McCarron: So should we use caption in lists? ←
15:35:44 <Steven> Markus: What does this mean for img then?
Markus Gylling: What does this mean for img then? ←
15:36:44 <Steven> Steven: Are you suggesting a caption child of img?
Steven Pemberton: Are you suggesting a caption child of img? ←
15:38:40 <Steven> ... from a processing point of virew, img and span are identical
... from a processing point of virew, img and span are identical ←
15:38:46 <ShaneM> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/htmlwg/xhtml-m12n-2/mod-text.html#cs_Text
Shane McCarron: http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/htmlwg/xhtml-m12n-2/mod-text.html#cs_Text ←
15:39:02 <Steven> Shane: The question really generalises to "should caption be able to be a child of any element"
Shane McCarron: The question really generalises to "should caption be able to be a child of any element" ←
15:40:17 <Steven> ... or "if we define the caption element, should it be in the text content set"
... or "if we define the caption element, should it be in the text content set" ←
15:40:54 <Steven> Markus: Or the title element, like the title attribute
Markus Gylling: Or the title element, like the title attribute ←
15:41:59 <Steven> Steven: The relationship between @title, caption and label is difficult
Steven Pemberton: The relationship between @title, caption and label is difficult ←
15:42:04 <Steven> ... it needs cleaning up
... it needs cleaning up ←
15:42:13 <Steven> Shane: I think caption on image is a fine idea
Shane McCarron: I think caption on image is a fine idea ←
15:42:31 <Steven> ... I should record it as an issue whether it should be allowed more generally
... I should record it as an issue whether it should be allowed more generally ←
15:43:27 <Steven> Steven: HTML5 has a figure element, with a child of <legend>
Steven Pemberton: HTML5 has a figure element, with a child of <legend> ←
15:43:43 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to define caption module and add issue about whether caption should be included in the Text content set.
ACTION: Shane to define caption module and add issue about whether caption should be included in the Text content set. ←
15:43:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Define caption module and add issue about whether caption should be included in the Text content set. [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-01-28].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-46 - Define caption module and add issue about whether caption should be included in the Text content set. [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-01-28]. ←
15:44:05 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
zakim, who is here? ←
15:44:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, mgylling, Steven, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, mgylling, Steven, Tina ←
15:44:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see Tina, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, Roland, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Tina, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, Roland, ShaneM, Steven, trackbot ←
15:44:39 <Steven> Shane: We should put Tina's XHTML2 issues at the top of next week's agenda
Shane McCarron: We should put Tina's XHTML2 issues at the top of next week's agenda ←
15:45:19 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
[ADJOURN] ←
15:45:26 <Steven> zakim, list attendees
zakim, list attendees ←
15:45:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Roland, ShaneM, Steven, mgylling, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Roland, ShaneM, Steven, mgylling, Tina ←
15:45:34 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:45:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
15:45:57 <Zakim> -Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←
15:45:57 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
15:46:01 <Zakim> -Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←
15:46:03 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
15:46:05 <Zakim> -mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling ←
15:46:06 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←
15:46:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Steven, mgylling, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Steven, mgylling, Tina ←
15:46:17 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:46:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/01/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland ←
Formatted by CommonScribe