None.
13:42:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-irc ←
13:42:58 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml
Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml ←
13:42:58 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
13:43:03 <Steven> too soon
Steven Pemberton: too soon ←
13:43:05 <Steven> ha
Steven Pemberton: ha ←
13:43:11 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public ←
13:43:43 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference
13:44:15 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0046
13:44:21 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0046
Steven Pemberton: Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0046 ←
13:44:27 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:44:43 <Steven> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/20-xhtml-minutes
13:44:56 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
13:45:03 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
13:45:26 <Steven> Please Gregory!
Steven Pemberton: Please Gregory! ←
13:45:28 <Zakim> + +04670855aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +04670855aaaa ←
13:45:36 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
13:45:39 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
13:46:12 <Zakim> +McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←
13:46:22 <ShaneM> zakim, McCarron is ShaneM
Shane McCarron: zakim, McCarron is ShaneM ←
13:46:22 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←
13:46:24 <oedipus> happy man ray day! and happy REAL president's day (it's a great way to improve your sax life)! http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/obfuscation.html#august27
happy man ray day! and happy REAL president's day (it's a great way to improve your sax life)! http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/obfuscation.html#august27 ←
13:46:41 <oedipus> regrets: Roland
13:46:47 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:46:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
13:47:23 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
13:47:23 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
13:47:25 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
13:47:44 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here? ←
13:47:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, +04670855aaaa, ShaneM, Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, +04670855aaaa, ShaneM, Steven ←
13:47:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, oedipus, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, oedipus, Tina ←
13:47:47 <oedipus> TOPIC: Announcements & News
13:47:57 <Steven> zakim, aaaa is Tina
Steven Pemberton: zakim, aaaa is Tina ←
13:47:57 <Zakim> +Tina; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina; got it ←
13:48:05 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:48:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
13:49:26 <oedipus> TP Registration - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0000.html
TP Registration - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0000.html ←
13:49:37 <oedipus> SP: may add TAG discussion to agenda
Steven Pemberton: may add TAG discussion to agenda ←
13:50:14 <oedipus> SP: issues surrounding TPAC2008 - TP Day, call for presentations, etc.
Steven Pemberton: issues surrounding TPAC2008 - TP Day, call for presentations, etc. ←
13:50:40 <oedipus> Outstanding Reviews: MarkB - review XSD 1.1 - Due: 2008-09-12
Outstanding Reviews: MarkB - review XSD 1.1 - Due: 2008-09-12 ←
13:51:01 <oedipus> TOPIC: XSD 1.1, ancestors and input
13:51:05 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is noisy? ←
13:51:08 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0044.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0044.html ←
13:51:20 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 15 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tina (19%), ShaneM (2%)
Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, listening for 15 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tina (19%), ShaneM (2%) ←
13:52:24 <oedipus> SP: how many coming to tech plenary - asked to co-chair presentations and lightning talks - if have any, let me know
Steven Pemberton: how many coming to tech plenary - asked to co-chair presentations and lightning talks - if have any, let me know ←
13:52:39 <oedipus> SP: review of XSD 1.1 due mid-september
Steven Pemberton: review of XSD 1.1 due mid-september ←
13:52:57 <oedipus> SP: had request from XSD WG member, asking for opinion on XSD 1.1
Steven Pemberton: had request from XSD WG member, asking for opinion on XSD 1.1 ←
13:53:01 <Zakim> +ShaneM.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM.a ←
13:53:05 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
13:53:12 <oedipus> SP: added assertions to schemas -
Steven Pemberton: added assertions to schemas - ←
13:53:23 <ShaneM> zakim, ShaneM.a is ShaneM
Shane McCarron: zakim, ShaneM.a is ShaneM ←
13:53:23 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←
13:53:43 <oedipus> SP: schematron allows one to say almost anything about an element and relationship to other elements; in XSD only judge element by children, not by parents
Steven Pemberton: schematron allows one to say almost anything about an element and relationship to other elements; in XSD only judge element by children, not by parents ←
13:54:06 <oedipus> SP: in most cases that is fine, but not in XHTML and HTML input elements which are children of the FORM element
Steven Pemberton: in most cases that is fine, but not in XHTML and HTML input elements which are children of the FORM element ←
13:54:18 <oedipus> SP: XSD cannot say this element is a child of this other element
Steven Pemberton: XSD cannot say this element is a child of this other element ←
13:54:59 <oedipus> SP: thought of hack to HEAD element - number of INPUT elements that are part of FORM element, but that is putting restriction on BODY element - can only be valid if number of input elements are the same as in xform
Steven Pemberton: thought of hack to HEAD element - number of INPUT elements that are part of FORM element, but that is putting restriction on BODY element - can only be valid if number of input elements are the same as in xform ←
13:56:03 <oedipus> SP: what is requested is what we say in prose; do we need to do anything else?
Steven Pemberton: what is requested is what we say in prose; do we need to do anything else? ←
13:56:22 <oedipus> SM: is XML Schema a long-interim strategy for w3c?
Shane McCarron: is XML Schema a long-interim strategy for w3c? ←
13:56:31 <Steven> zakim, mute tina
Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute tina ←
13:56:31 <Zakim> Tina should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Tina should now be muted ←
13:56:57 <oedipus> SM: synchronization with w3c long term strategy
Shane McCarron: synchronization with w3c long term strategy ←
13:57:24 <oedipus> SP: think can expect Schema something W3C officially supports
Steven Pemberton: think can expect Schema something W3C officially supports ←
13:57:30 <oedipus> SM: in that case, we need this capability
Shane McCarron: in that case, we need this capability ←
13:57:41 <oedipus> SM: need not just for INPUT
Shane McCarron: need not just for INPUT ←
13:58:00 <oedipus> SP: nested A works with children - can say number of child elements A zero
Steven Pemberton: nested A works with children - can say number of child elements A zero ←
13:58:09 <oedipus> SP: in that case we are covered
Steven Pemberton: in that case we are covered ←
13:58:37 <oedipus> SP: disallowing something as child is easy, but ensuring / requiring things be a child of something else have to go in other way in general
Steven Pemberton: disallowing something as child is easy, but ensuring / requiring things be a child of something else have to go in other way in general ←
13:59:05 <oedipus> SP: M12n where it really matters - don't know if have BODY element on which to put restriction - can't put restriction on BODY unless know about forms
Steven Pemberton: M12n where it really matters - don't know if have BODY element on which to put restriction - can't put restriction on BODY unless know about forms ←
13:59:14 <oedipus> SM: really good point - has nothing to do with xforms
Shane McCarron: really good point - has nothing to do with xforms ←
14:00:01 <oedipus> SP: a bit much putting it on our shoulders - think is valid use case; don't know why schema people want to allow this; when explanation advanced, not yet convinced
Steven Pemberton: a bit much putting it on our shoulders - think is valid use case; don't know why schema people want to allow this; when explanation advanced, not yet convinced ←
14:00:38 <oedipus> SP: XHTML example of where this happens - no good way of doing it, should allow - but is this an issue we want to highlight or comment upon? can only define things in english prose
Steven Pemberton: XHTML example of where this happens - no good way of doing it, should allow - but is this an issue we want to highlight or comment upon? can only define things in english prose ←
14:01:12 <oedipus> SP: attempt to rework relationship with schema people
Steven Pemberton: attempt to rework relationship with schema people ←
14:01:35 <oedipus> SM: fundamental problem - redefine doesn't allow an element in more than one group, so can't use? why the restriction?
Shane McCarron: fundamental problem - redefine doesn't allow an element in more than one group, so can't use? why the restriction? ←
14:02:51 <oedipus> SP: don't feel that strongly about issue - XSD people are set on an internal roadmap they are closely adhering to, don't know if worth arguing the point, but can make comment about this in review of XSD, but don't want to make fuss about it
Steven Pemberton: don't feel that strongly about issue - XSD people are set on an internal roadmap they are closely adhering to, don't know if worth arguing the point, but can make comment about this in review of XSD, but don't want to make fuss about it ←
14:03:24 <oedipus> SP: there is a counter-argument to "save" XSD as well
Steven Pemberton: there is a counter-argument to "save" XSD as well ←
14:03:41 <oedipus> SP: too bad markB isn't here
Steven Pemberton: too bad markB isn't here ←
14:04:03 <oedipus> SM: should make comment about it - not something to formally object to - make that clear in communication
Shane McCarron: should make comment about it - not something to formally object to - make that clear in communication ←
14:04:20 <oedipus> SM: XSD limitations make use cases less urgent to me
Shane McCarron: XSD limitations make use cases less urgent to me ←
14:05:04 <oedipus> SP: any other opinions?
Steven Pemberton: any other opinions? ←
14:05:13 <oedipus> GJR: no - PF is also reviewing XSD
Gregory Rosmaita: no - PF is also reviewing XSD ←
14:06:56 <oedipus> TOPIC: MimeTypes
14:08:22 <oedipus> SP: was discussion about this in another forum; i18n people learnt of our opinion that XHTML should be deliverable as text/html and discovered that that causes problem for i18n in XHTML 1.1 - reason: if UA knows about XML, uses xml:lang served as text, only @lang works
Steven Pemberton: was discussion about this in another forum; i18n people learnt of our opinion that XHTML should be deliverable as text/html and discovered that that causes problem for i18n in XHTML 1.1 - reason: if UA knows about XML, uses xml:lang served as text, only @lang works ←
14:09:14 <oedipus> SP: HTML5 is proposing to require both @lang and xml:lang - both having same value; want change to one or the other or both; request for reference to decision that XHTML should be delivered as text/html so pointed him to mediatypes document
Steven Pemberton: HTML5 is proposing to require both @lang and xml:lang - both having same value; want change to one or the other or both; request for reference to decision that XHTML should be delivered as text/html so pointed him to mediatypes document ←
14:09:34 <oedipus> SP: plan was to tell HTC about it this week - would like to announce it to them this week
Steven Pemberton: plan was to tell HTC about it this week - would like to announce it to them this week ←
14:09:39 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1
Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←
14:10:00 <oedipus> SM: plus 1 - fine if point to editor's draft - it's not "done", but ready to socialize
Shane McCarron: plus 1 - fine if point to editor's draft - it's not "done", but ready to socialize ←
14:10:24 <oedipus> SP: will add that document to XHTML2 report to HTC and see what happens
Steven Pemberton: will add that document to XHTML2 report to HTC and see what happens ←
14:10:51 <oedipus> SP: a Note is a final state - working draft should state the aim of document is to become a Note
Steven Pemberton: a Note is a final state - working draft should state the aim of document is to become a Note ←
14:11:17 <oedipus> SM: check pub rules - all our developmental documents should be marked clearly as editor's drafts
Shane McCarron: check pub rules - all our developmental documents should be marked clearly as editor's drafts ←
14:11:31 <oedipus> SP: vertical bar on side says "W3C Note"
Steven Pemberton: vertical bar on side says "W3C Note" ←
14:11:44 <oedipus> SM: please point out any similar instances you or anyone else finds
Shane McCarron: please point out any similar instances you or anyone else finds ←
14:11:48 <oedipus> SP: will report to HTC
Steven Pemberton: will report to HTC ←
14:12:13 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12N transition: status
14:13:08 <oedipus> SP: received reply from commentor--happy with reply; made changes to references and ready to go; sent off transition request - hope to hear from TBL or SteveB if want transition call - may not be necessary - hope to publish in early September, depending on CommTeam's time
Steven Pemberton: received reply from commentor--happy with reply; made changes to references and ready to go; sent off transition request - hope to hear from TBL or SteveB if want transition call - may not be necessary - hope to publish in early September, depending on CommTeam's time ←
14:13:12 <oedipus> SP: draft ready?
Steven Pemberton: draft ready? ←
14:13:25 <oedipus> SM: M12n - yes
Shane McCarron: M12n - yes ←
14:13:38 <oedipus> SP: reviewed and added updated section
Steven Pemberton: reviewed and added updated section ←
14:13:53 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven - produce new section for M12n -
ACTION: Steven - produce new section for M12n - ←
14:14:02 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:14:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:14:35 <oedipus> TOPIC: Agenda Shaping
14:14:49 <ShaneM> XHTMLMIME document updated at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20080827/
Shane McCarron: XHTMLMIME document updated at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20080827/ ←
14:16:22 <oedipus> GJR: have an open to WAI but UA group in particular notification of mnemonic when key binding changes and character isn't present in labelling text
Gregory Rosmaita: have posed open question on discoverability of remapped keys, especially when character isn't in label text to all of the WAI, but the UA group in particular is investigating discoverability for those who need - for example - a high level of zooming, but no dedicated assistive tech to provide in particular notification of mnemonic when key binding changes and character isn't present in labelling text ←
14:17:53 <oedipus> SP: if haven't got mnemonic keys on keyboard, mobile keyboard, for example, have limited range of keys - "m" key could translate to 6, but want person to use the 6 but not going to be in label
Steven Pemberton: if haven't got mnemonic keys on keyboard, mobile keyboard, for example, have limited range of keys - "m" key could translate to 6, but want person to use the 6 but not going to be in label ←
14:18:20 <oedipus> GJR: following every rabbit hole -- even those that lead to dead ends
Gregory Rosmaita: following every rabbit hole -- even those that lead to dead ends ←
14:19:01 <oedipus> SP: nothing to discuss then via access -- thanks SM for making changes - great stuff
Steven Pemberton: nothing to discuss then via access -- thanks SM for making changes - great stuff ←
14:19:19 <oedipus> s/TOPIC: Agenda Shaping/TOPIC: Access Module
14:19:30 <oedipus> SP: suggest we adjourn early
Steven Pemberton: suggest we adjourn early ←
14:19:37 <oedipus> SP: speak to you all next week
Steven Pemberton: speak to you all next week ←
14:19:40 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
14:19:40 <oedipus> ADJOURNED
ADJOURNED ←
14:19:41 <Zakim> -Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←
14:19:41 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
14:19:44 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:19:45 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←
14:19:46 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, +04670855aaaa, ShaneM, Steven, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, +04670855aaaa, ShaneM, Steven, Tina ←
14:19:52 <oedipus> zakim, please part
zakim, please part ←
14:19:57 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:19:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:20:11 <Steven> Thanks again Gregory
Steven Pemberton: Thanks again Gregory ←
14:20:28 <oedipus> no problem - i'll push them through and announce to list - have fun at the forms call
no problem - i'll push them through and announce to list - have fun at the forms call ←
14:23:15 <oedipus> s/have an open to WAI but UA group/have posed open question on discoverability of remapped keys, especially when character isn't in label text to all of the WAI, but the UA group in particular is investigating discoverability for those who need - for example - a high level of zooming, but no dedicated assistive tech to provide
14:23:17 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:23:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:35:55 <oedipus> present- [+04670855aaaa]
(No events recorded for 12 minutes)
present- [+04670855aaaa] ←
14:36:02 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:36:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:36:22 <oedipus> present- +04670855aaaa
present- +04670855aaaa ←
14:36:24 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:36:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:36:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
rrsagent, please part ←
14:36:44 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-actions.rdf : ←
14:36:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven - produce new section for M12n - [1]
ACTION: Steven - produce new section for M12n - [1] ←
14:36:44 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-irc#T14-13-53
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/27-xhtml-irc#T14-13-53 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe