13:41:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc ←
13:42:22 <Roland> Roland has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0014.html
Roland Merrick: Roland has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0014.html ←
13:42:49 <Roland> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:43:03 <Roland> Zakim, this will be XHTML2
Roland Merrick: Zakim, this will be XHTML2 ←
13:43:03 <Zakim> ok, Roland; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Roland; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes ←
13:46:06 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
Mark Birbeck: zakim, code? ←
13:46:06 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←
13:46:22 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
13:46:29 <Zakim> +Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←
13:46:47 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
13:46:50 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?
Mark Birbeck: zakim, i am ? ←
13:46:50 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←
13:47:00 <oedipus> will be about 5 minutes late to call in, apologies
Gregory Rosmaita: will be about 5 minutes late to call in, apologies ←
13:47:43 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
13:47:44 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:48:01 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0014.html
13:48:04 <Zakim> +Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina ←
13:48:07 <Roland> Regrets: Steven
13:48:20 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:48:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html Roland ←
13:48:28 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make log public ←
13:48:41 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
13:49:04 <alessio> zakim, ??P29 is Alessio
Alessio Cartocci: zakim, ??P29 is Alessio ←
13:49:04 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←
13:51:24 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
13:52:23 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
13:52:27 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
13:52:32 <oedipus> TOPIC: Agenda Review
13:52:51 <oedipus> RM: Shane and Tina supposed to collaborate on something
Roland Merrick: Shane and Tina supposed to collaborate on something ←
13:52:58 <oedipus> SM: we are working on it
Shane McCarron: we are working on it ←
13:53:15 <oedipus> RM: review of XSD 1.1 - MarkB best person to do this, willing to volunteer?
Roland Merrick: review of XSD 1.1 - MarkB best person to do this, willing to volunteer? ←
13:53:19 <oedipus> MB: yes - due date?
Mark Birbeck: yes - due date? ←
13:53:24 <oedipus> RM: 12 september 2008
Roland Merrick: 12 september 2008 ←
13:53:56 <oedipus> ACTION: MarkB - review XSD 1.1 - Due: 2008-09-12
ACTION: MarkB - review XSD 1.1 - Due: 2008-09-12 ←
13:54:01 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:54:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
13:54:13 <oedipus> RM: CURIE Syntax transition
Roland Merrick: CURIE Syntax transition ←
13:54:31 <oedipus> SM: if haven't heard back in 2 weeks, should poke them again
Shane McCarron: if haven't heard back in 2 weeks, should poke them again ←
13:54:42 <oedipus> RM: will investigate and try to expedite
Roland Merrick: will investigate and try to expedite ←
13:55:16 <oedipus> RM: XHTML <=> HTML5 positioning - nothing new
Roland Merrick: XHTML <=> HTML5 positioning - nothing new ←
13:55:34 <oedipus> RM: Role Attribute Module - Resolution to request CR Transition made 2008-07-09
Roland Merrick: Role Attribute Module - Resolution to request CR Transition made 2008-07-09 ←
13:55:38 <oedipus> RM: some outstanding tasks
Roland Merrick: some outstanding tasks ←
13:56:19 <oedipus> RM: action on GJR why "similar" instead of stating derived from role
Roland Merrick: action on GJR why "similar" instead of stating derived from role ←
13:56:21 <oedipus> GJR: ARIA's Relationship to Role Module Inquiry: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0012.html
Gregory Rosmaita: ARIA's Relationship to Role Module Inquiry: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0012.html ←
13:56:21 <oedipus> on agenda for today's PF call
on agenda for today's PF call ←
13:57:08 <oedipus> RM: XHTML Basic 1.1 transition to PR: status - waiting for votes; email about inconsistencies in text - should review; voting closed yesterday
Roland Merrick: XHTML Basic 1.1 transition to PR: status - waiting for votes; email about inconsistencies in text - should review; voting closed yesterday ←
13:57:22 <oedipus> RM: re-organization of groups in domains
Roland Merrick: re-organization of groups in domains ←
13:57:49 <oedipus> RM: M12N transition: status same as XHTML Basic 1.1
Roland Merrick: M12N transition: status same as XHTML Basic 1.1 ←
13:58:06 <oedipus> TOPIC: Access Module Comments
13:58:23 <oedipus> RM: feedback from SVG WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0002.html
Roland Merrick: feedback from SVG WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0002.html ←
13:58:44 <alessio> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0002.html
Alessio Cartocci: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0002.html ←
13:59:17 <oedipus> RM: reactions?
Roland Merrick: reactions? ←
13:59:33 <oedipus> SM: useful to go through this item by item
Shane McCarron: useful to go through this item by item ←
13:59:35 <oedipus> RM: agree
Roland Merrick: agree ←
13:59:46 <oedipus> SM: concerned about dependency on core attribute selection
Shane McCarron: they say they are concerned about dependency on core attribute selection ←
14:00:01 <oedipus> s/SM: concerned/SM: they say they are concerned
14:00:09 <oedipus> SM: not sure how to respond
Shane McCarron: not sure how to respond ←
14:00:26 <oedipus> RM: many of our modules have bits which could and should be reused
Roland Merrick: many of our modules have bits which could and should be reused ←
14:00:29 <oedipus> Alessio: yes
Alessio Cartocci: yes ←
14:00:56 <oedipus> SM: specific issue: access module does not have a dependency on core attributes collection, but ID attributes collection
Shane McCarron: specific issue: access module does not have a dependency on core attributes collection, but ID attributes collection ←
14:01:16 <oedipus> SM: wouldn't be adverse to changing text to highlight ID attribute dependency
Shane McCarron: wouldn't be adverse to changing text to highlight ID attribute dependency ←
14:01:29 <oedipus> SM: don't think really a dependency on any of them
Shane McCarron: don't think really a dependency on any of them ←
14:02:20 <oedipus> SVG comment: This is a problem for SVG, since the Core Attribute Collection [3] lists:
SVG comment: This is a problem for SVG, since the Core Attribute Collection [3] lists: ←
14:02:20 <oedipus> xml:space ("default"* | "preserve"), class (NMTOKENS), id (ID), title
xml:space ("default"* | "preserve"), class (NMTOKENS), id (ID), title ←
14:02:20 <oedipus> (CDATA)
(CDATA) ←
14:02:38 <oedipus> SM: doesn't need comment - in minimal collection
Shane McCarron: doesn't need comment - in minimal collection ←
14:03:08 <oedipus> SM: integrating with XHTML2 - but nothing from attributes that are required for functinoality
Shane McCarron: integrating with XHTML2 - but nothing from attributes that are required for functinoality ←
14:03:36 <oedipus> RM: clarify in attributes section of spec?
Roland Merrick: clarify in attributes section of spec? ←
14:04:07 <oedipus> SM: think req on core attribute selection hold over from HTML
Shane McCarron: think req on core attribute selection hold over from HTML ←
14:04:26 <oedipus> SM: dependency is targetid needs to know where to go
Shane McCarron: dependency is targetid needs to know where to go ←
14:04:36 <oedipus> RM: define that - goes to something with an id value
Roland Merrick: define that - goes to something with an id value ←
14:04:39 <oedipus> SM: exactly
Shane McCarron: exactly ←
14:05:03 <oedipus> RM: @id values must be unique - xml:id or id wouldn't matter from targetid POV
Roland Merrick: @id values must be unique - xml:id or id wouldn't matter from targetid POV ←
14:05:04 <oedipus> SM: true
Shane McCarron: true ←
14:05:34 <oedipus> RM: agreement to remove comment from core attribute collection from conformance
Roland Merrick: agreement to remove comment from core attribute collection from conformance ←
14:05:40 <alessio> +1
Alessio Cartocci: +1 ←
14:05:57 <oedipus> proposed RESOLUTION: remove comment on core attribute collection from conformance
proposed RESOLUTION: remove comment on core attribute collection from conformance ←
14:06:02 <oedipus> q+
q+ ←
14:06:13 <oedipus> SM: "Title and Description for <access> Element
Shane McCarron: "Title and Description for <access> Element ←
14:06:26 <oedipus> SM: want us to allow child elements, but not how we do it
Shane McCarron: want us to allow child elements, but not how we do it ←
14:06:58 <oedipus> SM: requesting TITLE and DESC to model, but looking for 4 state XForms model; extension mechanism available for access in our namespace
Shane McCarron: requesting TITLE and DESC to model, but looking for 4 state XForms model; extension mechanism available for access in our namespace ←
14:07:09 <oedipus> RM: M12n will allow SVG to add child elements?
Roland Merrick: M12n will allow SVG to add child elements? ←
14:07:11 <oedipus> SM: yes
Shane McCarron: yes ←
14:07:23 <oedipus> SM: may be that implementations don't make that easy
Shane McCarron: may be that implementations don't make that easy ←
14:07:48 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - investigate implementation to ascertain how difficult will be to add child elements in M12n
ACTION: Shane - investigate implementation to ascertain how difficult will be to add child elements in M12n ←
14:08:23 <oedipus> RESOLUTION: remove comment on core attribute collection from conformance in accordance with SVG formal comment
RESOLVED: remove comment on core attribute collection from conformance in accordance with SVG formal comment ←
14:08:30 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:08:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:09:11 <oedipus> RM: targetrole and targetid values comment
Roland Merrick: targetrole and targetid values comment ←
14:09:30 <oedipus> SVG comment: "It doesn't seem intuitive that the targetrole and targetid lists are
SVG comment: "It doesn't seem intuitive that the targetrole and targetid lists are ←
14:09:30 <oedipus> unordered, but rely solely on document order. For SVG in particular,
unordered, but rely solely on document order. For SVG in particular, ←
14:09:30 <oedipus> document order is of a different nature than in XHTML; it determines the
document order is of a different nature than in XHTML; it determines the ←
14:09:30 <oedipus> stacking order, not the sequential order. We do understand that both
stacking order, not the sequential order. We do understand that both ←
14:09:30 <oedipus> unordered and ordered lists have use cases; therefore, we suggest that
unordered and ordered lists have use cases; therefore, we suggest that ←
14:09:31 <oedipus> you introduce a way for the author to control the 'tabbing' order.
you introduce a way for the author to control the 'tabbing' order. ←
14:09:33 <oedipus> "
" ←
14:10:08 <oedipus> SM: don't mind addition -- allows documentation of tab order
Shane McCarron: don't mind addition -- allows documentation of tab order ←
14:10:13 <oedipus> SVG request: "attribute 'order' = "document* | list"
SVG request: "attribute 'order' = "document* | list" ←
14:10:44 <oedipus> SM: not the target accessibility community wants - not sure would affect accessibility pro or con
Shane McCarron: not the target accessibility community wants - not sure would affect accessibility pro or con ←
14:11:06 <oedipus> SM: will adding capability change its accessibility aspects?
Shane McCarron: will adding capability change its accessibility aspects? ←
14:11:32 <oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - bring up SVG's proposal for attribute 'order' to ascertain if affects accessibility qua accessibility
ACTION: Gregory - bring up SVG's proposal for attribute 'order' to ascertain if affects accessibility qua accessibility ←
14:11:41 <oedipus> RM: tabindex in general...
Roland Merrick: tabindex in general... ←
14:11:48 <oedipus> SM: don't use tabindexing -
Shane McCarron: don't use tabindexing - ←
14:12:47 <oedipus> Alessio: maybe should emphasize role - not just affects order for UI, but semantic order of document; need way to navigate inside document, so think is right to guide user, but can we use only to define tabbing order
Alessio Cartocci: maybe should emphasize role - not just affects order for UI, but semantic order of document; need way to navigate inside document, so think is right to guide user, but can we use only to define tabbing order ←
14:13:41 <oedipus> SM: agree with Alessio; don't think in terms of tab order, but defining navigation sequeence associated with access element; introducing role will complicate things - can have many elements with sam role
Shane McCarron: agree with Alessio; don't think in terms of tab order, but defining navigation sequeence associated with access element; introducing role will complicate things - can have many elements with sam role ←
14:14:18 <oedipus> Alessio: understand Shane's concerns - need a way to order navigation inside elements
Alessio Cartocci: understand Shane's concerns - need a way to order navigation inside elements ←
14:15:05 <oedipus> Alessio: think that there are many people who decide the tabindex order besides user; tabindex 200 to 1000 defined may be conflicts; complicated issue
Alessio Cartocci: think that there are many people who decide the tabindex order besides user; tabindex 200 to 1000 defined may be conflicts; complicated issue ←
14:15:17 <oedipus> GJR: agree will try and get more clarification through PF
Gregory Rosmaita: agree will try and get more clarification through PF ←
14:15:23 <oedipus> RM: need more work/thought on this
Roland Merrick: need more work/thought on this ←
14:16:41 <oedipus> MB: attribute order equals - AlGilman asked for ability to set sequence through document; decided should be left for later; targetid states these are the ids affected by this key; if mix up with role, may pose problem; sequence of roles regardless of keys - more abstract layer to work on in future
Mark Birbeck: attribute order equals - AlGilman asked for ability to set sequence through document; decided should be left for later; targetid states these are the ids affected by this key; if mix up with role, may pose problem; sequence of roles regardless of keys - more abstract layer to work on in future ←
14:17:12 <oedipus> MB: need more thought on this; now talking about sequence of list in relation to role and id at some level; may recycle discussion at top-level
Mark Birbeck: need more thought on this; now talking about sequence of list in relation to role and id at some level; may recycle discussion at top-level ←
14:17:49 <oedipus> SM: reaction to paragraph 2 - can remove that and say implementation defined by host language / up to host language to define order
Shane McCarron: reaction to paragraph 2 - can remove that and say implementation defined by host language / up to host language to define order ←
14:17:55 <oedipus> MB: yeah
Mark Birbeck: yeah ←
14:18:02 <oedipus> GJR: hmmm.. intrigued
Gregory Rosmaita: hmmm.. intrigued ←
14:18:16 <oedipus> SM: potentially in conflict with other developments with XHTML2
Shane McCarron: potentially in conflict with other developments with XHTML2 ←
14:18:49 <oedipus> RM: stepping back to "up to host langauge" position ok, but what happens when SVG, MathML and others don't gel because all taken different approaches
Roland Merrick: stepping back to "up to host langauge" position ok, but what happens when SVG, MathML and others don't gel because all taken different approaches ←
14:19:36 <oedipus> RM: normatively don't say, but could ask for guidance on how to implement in host language; if requirements to do something different, do what is best for your domain and ML based on purpose and expertise
Roland Merrick: normatively don't say, but could ask for guidance on how to implement in host language; if requirements to do something different, do what is best for your domain and ML based on purpose and expertise ←
14:20:35 <oedipus> MB: UAs mixing XHTML and SVG - can have 2 levels of navigation - once get into SVG have different controls until get out of SVG and back into XHTML; SVG buttons and checkboxes not clear what is next
Mark Birbeck: UAs mixing XHTML and SVG - can have 2 levels of navigation - once get into SVG have different controls until get out of SVG and back into XHTML; SVG buttons and checkboxes not clear what is next ←
14:20:49 <oedipus> GJR: Elemant Traversal draft applicable?
Gregory Rosmaita: Elemant Traversal draft applicable? ←
14:21:29 <oedipus> RM: suggest back off as Shane suggested; not going to define order - up to host language incorporating it - but if have no idea what to do, start with document order unless reason to do otherwise
Roland Merrick: suggest back off as Shane suggested; not going to define order - up to host language incorporating it - but if have no idea what to do, start with document order unless reason to do otherwise ←
14:22:50 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/ElementTraversal/
http://www.w3.org/TR/ElementTraversal/ ←
14:23:22 <oedipus> Element Traversal abstract: "This specification defines the ElementTraversal interface, which allows script navigation of the elements of a DOM tree, excluding all other nodes in the DOM, such as text nodes. It also provides an attribute to expose the number of child elements of an element. It is intended to provide a more convenient alternative to existing DOM navigation interfaces, with a low implementation footprint."
Element Traversal abstract: "This specification defines the ElementTraversal interface, which allows script navigation of the elements of a DOM tree, excluding all other nodes in the DOM, such as text nodes. It also provides an attribute to expose the number of child elements of an element. It is intended to provide a more convenient alternative to existing DOM navigation interfaces, with a low implementation footprint." ←
14:24:20 <oedipus> proposed ACTION: ShaneM - update wording on navigation order in response to SVG WG comments
proposed ACTION: ShaneM - update wording on navigation order in response to SVG WG comments ←
14:24:28 <oedipus> ACTION: ShaneM - update wording on navigation order in response to SVG WG comments
ACTION: ShaneM - update wording on navigation order in response to SVG WG comments ←
14:24:34 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:24:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:24:50 <oedipus> SM: next comment: multiple keys for same target element
Shane McCarron: next comment: multiple keys for same target element ←
14:25:08 <oedipus> SM: no problem with comment
Shane McCarron: no problem with comment ←
14:25:13 <oedipus> RM: seems reasonable
Roland Merrick: seems reasonable ←
14:25:15 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1
Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←
14:25:25 <alessio> yes
Alessio Cartocci: yes ←
14:25:32 <oedipus> RESOLVED: accept SVG comment on Multiple Keys for Same Target Element
RESOLVED: accept SVG comment on Multiple Keys for Same Target Element ←
14:26:05 <oedipus> SM: external document use comment: should ignoring multiple frame comment, for now
Shane McCarron: external document use comment: should ignoring multiple frame comment, for now ←
14:26:15 <alessio> interesting issue
Alessio Cartocci: interesting issue ←
14:26:40 <oedipus> SVG comment on external document use: "We believe there is a use case for referencing elements in another document, such as in a scenario where multiple frames are loaded. Please consider if an IDREF is the appropriate value for the targetid attribute, given this scenario."
SVG comment on external document use: "We believe there is a use case for referencing elements in another document, such as in a scenario where multiple frames are loaded. Please consider if an IDREF is the appropriate value for the targetid attribute, given this scenario." ←
14:27:02 <oedipus> RM: assumption that dealing with 1 document; to address multiple documents a whole 'nother kettle of fish
Roland Merrick: assumption that dealing with 1 document; to address multiple documents a whole 'nother kettle of fish ←
14:27:29 <oedipus> SM: in case of XML Events, have CURIE syntax; for this comment, don't think makes sense to change targetid attribute
Shane McCarron: in case of XML Events, have CURIE syntax; for this comment, don't think makes sense to change targetid attribute ←
14:28:06 <oedipus> MB: could be IDREFS or URIs
Mark Birbeck: could be IDREFS or URIs ←
14:28:23 <oedipus> SM: remember plural; get to one, and then lost context -- what to do?
Shane McCarron: remember plural; get to one, and then lost context -- what to do? ←
14:28:47 <oedipus> SM: can see having targeturi as another alternative - not sure what it buys, but if satisfies comment...
Shane McCarron: can see having targeturi as another alternative - not sure what it buys, but if satisfies comment... ←
14:29:11 <oedipus> MB: out of scope - similar things raised about Events crossing boundaries; need more coherent picture as to how to make that work to make this work
Mark Birbeck: out of scope - similar things raised about Events crossing boundaries; need more coherent picture as to how to make that work to make this work ←
14:29:55 <oedipus> RM: compact document type - when go into component, should be point of entry, and access within would have to be defined by those components
Roland Merrick: compact document type - when go into component, should be point of entry, and access within would have to be defined by those components ←
14:30:19 <oedipus> RM: documents and widgets embedded in page, get black box from outside
Roland Merrick: documents and widgets embedded in page, get black box from outside ←
14:30:59 <oedipus> GJR: points out ARIA approach
Gregory Rosmaita: points out ARIA approach ←
14:31:54 <oedipus> MB: those scenarios easier - if part of parent DOM, but don't know internal thing, can identify it because in same DOM (knows y is a child) - don't know how to navigate; document with IFRAMEs hop from one to another
Mark Birbeck: those scenarios easier - if part of parent DOM, but don't know internal thing, can identify it because in same DOM (knows y is a child) - don't know how to navigate; document with IFRAMEs hop from one to another ←
14:32:45 <oedipus> GJR: ARIA trying to address navigational "traps" posed by widgets and embedded objects and should provide ability to list and traverse all objects of type x
Gregory Rosmaita: ARIA trying to address navigational "traps" posed by widgets and embedded objects and should provide ability to list and traverse all objects of type x ←
14:33:10 <oedipus> MB: targetid about IDREFs and anything beyond that is beyond scope for now
Mark Birbeck: targetid about IDREFs and anything beyond that is beyond scope for now ←
14:33:16 <oedipus> SM: objections?
Shane McCarron: objections? ←
14:33:20 <oedipus> Alessio: agree
Alessio Cartocci: agree ←
14:33:23 <oedipus> TH: agree
Tina Holmboe: agree ←
14:33:26 <oedipus> GJR: agree
Gregory Rosmaita: agree ←
14:33:51 <oedipus> SM: can do what they want with 2 elements - access element that targets something in document and embedded document - but that is for XML Events
Shane McCarron: can do what they want with 2 elements - access element that targets something in document and embedded document - but that is for XML Events ←
14:33:58 <oedipus> SM: will make edits agreed to
Shane McCarron: will make edits agreed to ←
14:34:21 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - respond to SVG formal review of Access Module
ACTION: Shane - respond to SVG formal review of Access Module ←
14:34:29 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:34:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:36:16 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML2 new draft
14:36:42 <oedipus> SM: don't know when will be finished; keep getting sidetracked by other w3c things;
Shane McCarron: don't know when will be finished; keep getting sidetracked by other w3c things; ←
14:36:53 <oedipus> TH: have a number of comments for you, Shane
Tina Holmboe: have a number of comments for you, Shane ←
14:37:17 <oedipus> SM: plan is to work on XHTML2 this weekend - real issues want to discuss
Shane McCarron: plan is to work on XHTML2 this weekend - real issues want to discuss ←
14:37:20 <oedipus> RM: go ahead
Roland Merrick: go ahead ←
14:38:09 <oedipus> SM: during Face2Face, direction i got was remove from XHTML2 section that defines things that are in other specs so that not defined twice, which makes sense; @meta, XForms, XML Events 2, etc. -- removed, but then realized lost content model
Shane McCarron: during Face2Face, direction i got was remove from XHTML2 section that defines things that are in other specs so that not defined twice, which makes sense; @meta, XForms, XML Events 2, etc. -- removed, but then realized lost content model ←
14:38:49 <oedipus> SM: purpose of section to proviide content model; tried to shoehorn-into draft under mime types, doesn't really fit; doesn't explain how to write XHTML2
Shane McCarron: purpose of section to proviide content model; tried to shoehorn-into draft under mime types, doesn't really fit; doesn't explain how to write XHTML2 ←
14:39:18 <oedipus> SM: assume goal is person reading spec will understand what elements and attributes are available, and where they are permitted
Shane McCarron: assume goal is person reading spec will understand what elements and attributes are available, and where they are permitted ←
14:39:25 <oedipus> [general agreement]
[general agreement] ←
14:39:55 <oedipus> SM: XForms defines content model in respect to XHTML, so we have to do it but how? put back in - here are elements and attributes and how they work
Shane McCarron: XForms defines content model in respect to XHTML, so we have to do it but how? put back in - here are elements and attributes and how they work ←
14:40:05 <oedipus> RM: show content model, not what each item means
Roland Merrick: show content model, not what each item means ←
14:40:20 <oedipus> MB: tricky with XForms
Mark Birbeck: tricky with XForms ←
14:40:49 <oedipus> SM: started down that road, but concern is that someone will say, "i have to read 5 other specs to find out what XHTML2 is" -- need to agree if that is ok
Shane McCarron: started down that road, but concern is that someone will say, "i have to read 5 other specs to find out what XHTML2 is" -- need to agree if that is ok ←
14:41:00 <oedipus> RM: opportunity for someone to make money writing a book on that
Roland Merrick: opportunity for someone to make money writing a book on that ←
14:41:32 <oedipus> SM: put chapters back in, but remove content, so only table at top that defines elements and attributes with one or 2 sentences on how integrate into content model
Shane McCarron: put chapters back in, but remove content, so only table at top that defines elements and attributes with one or 2 sentences on how integrate into content model ←
14:41:37 <oedipus> TH: and reference other docs?
Tina Holmboe: and reference other docs? ←
14:41:59 <oedipus> SM: explicitly link out to the right part of the referenced specs for each element
Shane McCarron: explicitly link out to the right part of the referenced specs for each element ←
14:42:07 <oedipus> SM: have to figure out elegant way to do that
Shane McCarron: have to figure out elegant way to do that ←
14:42:40 <oedipus> RM: present information that is useful for authors and not just understanaable by specification wonks
Roland Merrick: present information that is useful for authors and not just understanaable by specification wonks ←
14:43:12 <oedipus> RM: can provide a deliverable - composite content model for authors
Roland Merrick: can provide a deliverable - composite content model for authors ←
14:44:08 <oedipus> SM: way back when, debate was XHTML2 or M12n 2 - group decided XHTML2, but based on modules that can be assembled into other things; there are 2 things: the language and the toolkit - have to cover both
Shane McCarron: way back when, debate was XHTML2 or M12n 2 - group decided XHTML2, but based on modules that can be assembled into other things; there are 2 things: the language and the toolkit - have to cover both ←
14:44:23 <oedipus> RM: don't want authorial redundancy with other MLs
Roland Merrick: don't want authorial redundancy with other MLs ←
14:44:33 <oedipus> TOPIC: Wrapping Up
14:44:38 <oedipus> RM: any pressing issues?
Roland Merrick: any pressing issues? ←
14:44:46 <oedipus> ADJOURNED
ADJOURNED ←
14:44:54 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←
14:44:55 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:44:57 <Zakim> -Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←
14:44:59 <Zakim> -Alessio
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio ←
14:45:03 <Zakim> -Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←
14:45:11 <oedipus> zakim, please part
zakim, please part ←
14:45:11 <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees were Roland, markbirbeck, ShaneM, Tina, Alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Roland, markbirbeck, ShaneM, Tina, Alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:45:16 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:45:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:46:05 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
rrsagent, please part ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-actions.rdf : ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarkB - review XSD 1.1 - Due: 2008-09-12 [1]
ACTION: MarkB - review XSD 1.1 - Due: 2008-09-12 [1] ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T13-53-56
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T13-53-56 ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane - investigate implementation to ascertain how difficult will be to add child elements in M12n [2]
ACTION: Shane - investigate implementation to ascertain how difficult will be to add child elements in M12n [2] ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-07-48
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-07-48 ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Gregory - bring up SVG's proposal for attribute 'order' to ascertain if affects accessibility qua accessibility [3]
ACTION: Gregory - bring up SVG's proposal for attribute 'order' to ascertain if affects accessibility qua accessibility [3] ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-11-32
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-11-32 ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM - update wording on navigation order in response to SVG WG comments [4]
ACTION: ShaneM - update wording on navigation order in response to SVG WG comments [4] ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-24-28
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-24-28 ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane - respond to SVG formal review of Access Module [5]
ACTION: Shane - respond to SVG formal review of Access Module [5] ←
14:46:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-34-21
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/16-xhtml-irc#T14-34-21 ←
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